Fungal mancer should have been 6 mana'd in that list. Super boring card.
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Developed Hearthstone player, have played and beaten highly skilled opponents on numerous occasions. Not that ambitious on ladder. Only play off of win streaks. Love theory more than meta.
Fungal mancer should have been 6 mana'd in that list. Super boring card.
It is a balanced card because is a lot weaker when you have an empty board or only one minion, serves for the last try for aggro decks and is very important aggro decks be competitive or the game will turn into OTK reign of terror.
Sure, if T5 stops supporting single decks that massively punish entire archtypes (Kingsbane vs Control AND OTK) then we can stop nerfing cards like Leeching Poison. Players who exploit easy wins that they wouldn't have otherwise obtained with almost any other deck is what led to part of this recent nerf.
Although something tells me that the lack of ingenuity when it comes to deckbuilding and the common player will never cease for such an exploitation to be a non-issue, thus nerfs will continue to keep coming for instances such as this week's balance changes.
I think Blizzard should cease to nerf cards. In my opinion it disproportionately affects f2p players including yours truly, so I should probably acknowledge subjectivity at this point lol. Sure, you get a full refund on the nerfed card, but you don't get it on other cards you crafted for that particular competitive deck to which the nerfed card belongs. And this is a problem because most f2p players have only one or two viable decks at their disposal at any given time. I personally find changing the meta every time you print new cards sufficient enough. Let people have some fun and run rampant with some powerful decks for a while. What's wrong with that. Mind you, I grew up playing HoM&M 3, so I'm used to imbalanced mechanics being present, but I think they can be fun. Alternatively instead of nerfing some cards, buff some cards in order to improve the balance. It can provide the same effect without effectively removing the decks people invested in from play and as an additional bonus no need to provide refunds of any kind. What do you guys think?
For a while??? Odd paladin is disturbingly OP for such a long time.
At the end of Boomsday it wasn't even a tier 1 deck in most rankings, top of the second tier admittedly, but certainly not the most OP deck out there. It also had some very bad matchups, so easy to counter if you wished to farm Odd Paladins who I believe weren't actually that prevalent.
I have been playing a free to play account in addition to my account I have most the cards on. If you do the daily challenges, even if you do not play arena you have more than 1 or 2 viable decks. You just do not realize it. If you think you need to play the best deck on HSreplay to be viable you are undervaluing skill on tier 2 or 3 decks. Look at any streamer. Most can hit legend with tier nowhere decks. You are unfairly judging the game based on an unnecessary box that you have created for yourself.
With a tier 2 deck in most metas, I agree that most players can hit legend. To hit legend with a tier 3 deck you imo basically need to be a pro. Lower than tier 3, then you not only need to be a pro, but also have to quite frankly get lucky. Decks such as Odd Paladin, Spell and Secret Hunter enjoy much popularity not (only) because of their power level, but also (if not primarily) because of their relative affordability at a decent power level.
Having re-read the replies and watched Trump's analysis of the balance changes I think I can finally totally understand where people who are heavily invested in the game, either financially or time-wise, come from in their appreciation of these nerfs. I can empathize how you would be bored with facing the same decks over and over again if you play the game say on average 15+ hours a week pretty much every single week. That said I still think the meta could be shaken up in a different more-firendly-to-f2p-players way and imo having such major changes introduced just a few weeks after the release of the set is either indicative of poor design and testing on Blizzard's part and/or of valuing profit ahead of player enjoyment, where player enjoyment refers to aggregate utility of all players and this group still predominantly consists of f2p players.
Your questions are irrelevant. “Don’t you care how you win?” No because I don’t be have that luxury, I don’t know how else I can make that clear for you.
Oh, thanks for making that 100% clear, but my reply to you is: stop playing the goddamn game then! No one forces you to play Hearthstone and destroy other people gaming experience. If you are not really having fun with the deck you play, why are you still doing it? Do you do it just to crush other people online? LMAO, people like you do not have the slightest respect for others, and it is hilarious because according to TardisGreen I'm the toxic person, not you. You guys are so funny... you should be comedians or something, LOL. You don't deserve to be understood and I'm glad many users here have the brains to understand that.
Your questions are irrelevant. “Don’t you care how you win?” No because I don’t be have that luxury, I don’t know how else I can make that clear for you.
Oh, thanks for making that 100% clear, but my reply to you is: stop playing the goddamn game then! No one forces you to play Hearthstone and destroy other people gaming experience. If you are not really having fun with the deck you play, why are you still doing it? Do you do it just to crush other people online? LMAO, people like you do not have the slightest respect for others, and it is hilarious because according to TardisGreen I'm the toxic person, not you. You people are so funny... you should be comedians or something, LOL. You don't deserve to be understood and I'm glad many people here have the brains to understand that.
My reply is simple. If what decks other people play is ruining your game experience, why don’t you stop playing the game? Players have the right to play whatever they want:
Your questions are irrelevant. “Don’t you care how you win?” No because I don’t be have that luxury, I don’t know how else I can make that clear for you.
Oh, thanks for making that 100% clear, but my reply to you is: stop playing the goddamn game then! No one forces you to play Hearthstone and destroy other people gaming experience. If you are not really having fun with the deck you play, why are you still doing it? Do you do it just to crush other people online? LMAO, people like you do not have the slightest respect for others, and it is hilarious because according to TardisGreen I'm the toxic person, not you. You people are so funny... you should be comedians or something, LOL. You don't deserve to be understood and I'm glad many people here have the brains to understand that.
My reply is simple. If what decks other people play is ruining your game experience, why don’t you stop playing the game? Players have the right to play whatever they want:
Oh, they have the right to play whatever they want, but according to people like you, I (and many others) don't have the right to blame them for that. How the hell is that fair?
I think Blizzard should cease to nerf cards. In my opinion it disproportionately affects f2p players including yours truly, so I should probably acknowledge subjectivity at this point lol. Sure, you get a full refund on the nerfed card, but you don't get it on other cards you crafted for that particular competitive deck to which the nerfed card belongs.
No. You pay for the card, not for it's competitivity. If you only value cards that are played in high tier decks, then that is your own personal preference. No one is obliged to cater for your personal liking of HS.
Nerfs are good for a healthy game, and while you have a point that this isn't really f2p friendly (btw I'm f2p, too), this is still a free game with paid lootboxes to finance it. Yes, Blizzard basicly shits gold with HS but that's another point. Either cope with a CCGs core functions or stop playing altogether.
That said I still think the meta could be shaken up in a different more-firendly-to-f2p-players way
Please enlighten us, If there was a feasible way for Blizzard to shake meta without upsetting F2P players then they would HAVE DONE IT. Alienating a large part of community doesn't benefit Blizzard in any shape of form.
valuing profit ahead of player enjoyment
I would argue otherwise. By making such radical changes in such a short amount of time Blizzard alienated F2P players and some esports people which, directly or indirectly, is their "profit". Instead they focused on enjoyment of players who were tired of playing against same thing for last 2 expansions.
You already got to spam Odd Pally, Combo Druid and Shudderwock for last 8 months, that's more than enough. You can't complain that Blizzard didn't give you enough time to enjoy these decks.
OP, I am just going to ask one question. Not to lecture you about what deck to play or what you deserve for playing that deck.
If your dust issues are as you speak, why didn't you craft a T2 deck (which would probably be safe from the nerf bat) instead of the obviously OP T1 deck that was almost certainly going to get nerfed?
I am just saying, perhaps it is wiser to pick a deck that wins a bit less and never risk losing it, than picking an overpowered one that ends up deservingly crippled.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
That said I still think the meta could be shaken up in a different more-firendly-to-f2p-players way
Please enlighten us, If there was a feasible way for Blizzard to shake meta without upsetting F2P players then they would HAVE DONE IT. Alienating a large part of community doesn't benefit Blizzard in any shape of form.
I've already mentioned in my original post that one way to improve balance other than via nerfs is via buffs. In the end what you care about is the relative power level of cards, hence buffing some can be just as effective as nerfing some and lacks the effect of devaluing some people's investment in a particular deck. That said, the best way would be to ensure that balance issue never appear in the first place, in other words that they are addressed with the printing of new cards. Imo balance changes on Blizzard's part just a few weeks after the release of a new set of cards are either intended and aimed to make people spend more money on the game or more time playing it, or alternatively show poor design and balance testing on their part.
OP, I am just going to ask one question. Not to lecture you about what deck to play or what you deserve for playing that deck.
If your dust issues are as you speak, why didn't you craft a T2 deck (which would probably be safe from the nerf bat) instead of the obviously OP T1 deck that was almost certainly going to get nerfed?
I am just saying, perhaps it is wiser to pick a deck that wins a bit less and never risk losing it, than picking an overpowered one that ends up deservingly crippled.
That is certainly an approach worth considering. That said at the time I invested into Odd Paladin it was actually considered a tier 2 deck in most classifications. And the other deck I've recently invested into namely Spell Hunter was too early of a call in terms of meta not being settled at the time I went for it. I have in the past invested into tier 2 deck and I think your advice is sound, thanks.
You know what card needs that should of got a nerf, Cataclysm. This card is so BS to see hit the board every game on turn 4. This card needs to be 6 cost +, so many cards that benefit from this effect now that it's just getting stupid. I'm tired of playing exodia mage to play around this crap.
You know what card needs that should of got a nerf, Cataclysm. This card is so BS to see hit the board every game on turn 4. This card needs to be 6 cost +, so many cards that benefit from this effect now that it's just getting stupid. I'm tired of playing exodia mage to play around this crap.
............what.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Kingsbane was considered a tier 2 deck even before the meta could adapt to it. No way it would've become tier 1.
Blizzard did a hell of a job releasing in raiding party THE card to push kingsbane rogue out of tier 4 and nerfing one essential card only two weeks after. That's just erratic. How are you supposed to see that coming?
Therefore II'd also like to get compensated for my doomerangs which won't be useful neither standard nor wild once the card rotates. Surely this is not going to happen but as f2p I find the nerfs not funny.
Kingsbane was considered a tier 2 deck even before the meta could adapt to it. No way it would've become tier 1.
Blizzard did a hell of a job releasing in raiding party THE card to push kingsbane rogue out of tier 4 and nerfing one essential card only two weeks after. That's just erratic. How are you supposed to see that coming?
Therefore II'd also like to get compensated for my doomerangs which won't be useful neither standard nor wild once the card rotates. Surely this is not going to happen but as f2p I find the nerfs not funny.
Man the entitlement here is real.
Consider that in wild Kingsbane certainly was not tier 2 or tier 4, but was at least tier 1 in many regards. That deck even heavily punished slow control mage decks (you know the deck with semi-permanent freeze effects?). We didn't get random dust refunds for all of the control cards we crafted to hope to both have fun with and legitimately climb with on ladder, just to sumo slammed by this single idiotic deck. That wasn't funny for us either. Why should you deserve dust refunds for cards not directly nerfed now that you are on the end of having a less than viable deck now?
Kingsbane was considered a tier 2 deck even before the meta could adapt to it. No way it would've become tier 1.
Blizzard did a hell of a job releasing in raiding party THE card to push kingsbane rogue out of tier 4 and nerfing one essential card only two weeks after. That's just erratic. How are you supposed to see that coming?
Therefore II'd also like to get compensated for my doomerangs which won't be useful neither standard nor wild once the card rotates. Surely this is not going to happen but as f2p I find the nerfs not funny.
I agree. That was cruel what they did with kingsbane
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Fungal mancer should have been 6 mana'd in that list. Super boring card.
Developed Hearthstone player, have played and beaten highly skilled opponents on numerous occasions. Not that ambitious on ladder. Only play off of win streaks. Love theory more than meta.
It is a balanced card because is a lot weaker when you have an empty board or only one minion, serves for the last try for aggro decks and is very important aggro decks be competitive or the game will turn into OTK reign of terror.
Sure, if T5 stops supporting single decks that massively punish entire archtypes (Kingsbane vs Control AND OTK) then we can stop nerfing cards like Leeching Poison. Players who exploit easy wins that they wouldn't have otherwise obtained with almost any other deck is what led to part of this recent nerf.
Although something tells me that the lack of ingenuity when it comes to deckbuilding and the common player will never cease for such an exploitation to be a non-issue, thus nerfs will continue to keep coming for instances such as this week's balance changes.
At the end of Boomsday it wasn't even a tier 1 deck in most rankings, top of the second tier admittedly, but certainly not the most OP deck out there. It also had some very bad matchups, so easy to counter if you wished to farm Odd Paladins who I believe weren't actually that prevalent.
With a tier 2 deck in most metas, I agree that most players can hit legend. To hit legend with a tier 3 deck you imo basically need to be a pro. Lower than tier 3, then you not only need to be a pro, but also have to quite frankly get lucky. Decks such as Odd Paladin, Spell and Secret Hunter enjoy much popularity not (only) because of their power level, but also (if not primarily) because of their relative affordability at a decent power level.
Having re-read the replies and watched Trump's analysis of the balance changes I think I can finally totally understand where people who are heavily invested in the game, either financially or time-wise, come from in their appreciation of these nerfs. I can empathize how you would be bored with facing the same decks over and over again if you play the game say on average 15+ hours a week pretty much every single week. That said I still think the meta could be shaken up in a different more-firendly-to-f2p-players way and imo having such major changes introduced just a few weeks after the release of the set is either indicative of poor design and testing on Blizzard's part and/or of valuing profit ahead of player enjoyment, where player enjoyment refers to aggregate utility of all players and this group still predominantly consists of f2p players.
Oh, thanks for making that 100% clear, but my reply to you is: stop playing the goddamn game then! No one forces you to play Hearthstone and destroy other people gaming experience. If you are not really having fun with the deck you play, why are you still doing it? Do you do it just to crush other people online? LMAO, people like you do not have the slightest respect for others, and it is hilarious because according to TardisGreen I'm the toxic person, not you. You guys are so funny... you should be comedians or something, LOL. You don't deserve to be understood and I'm glad many users here have the brains to understand that.
My reply is simple. If what decks other people play is ruining your game experience, why don’t you stop playing the game? Players have the right to play whatever they want:
Oh, they have the right to play whatever they want, but according to people like you, I (and many others) don't have the right to blame them for that. How the hell is that fair?
No. You pay for the card, not for it's competitivity. If you only value cards that are played in high tier decks, then that is your own personal preference. No one is obliged to cater for your personal liking of HS.
Nerfs are good for a healthy game, and while you have a point that this isn't really f2p friendly (btw I'm f2p, too), this is still a free game with paid lootboxes to finance it. Yes, Blizzard basicly shits gold with HS but that's another point. Either cope with a CCGs core functions or stop playing altogether.
Please enlighten us, If there was a feasible way for Blizzard to shake meta without upsetting F2P players then they would HAVE DONE IT. Alienating a large part of community doesn't benefit Blizzard in any shape of form.
I would argue otherwise. By making such radical changes in such a short amount of time Blizzard alienated F2P players and some esports people which, directly or indirectly, is their "profit". Instead they focused on enjoyment of players who were tired of playing against same thing for last 2 expansions.
You already got to spam Odd Pally, Combo Druid and Shudderwock for last 8 months, that's more than enough. You can't complain that Blizzard didn't give you enough time to enjoy these decks.
OP, I am just going to ask one question. Not to lecture you about what deck to play or what you deserve for playing that deck.
If your dust issues are as you speak, why didn't you craft a T2 deck (which would probably be safe from the nerf bat) instead of the obviously OP T1 deck that was almost certainly going to get nerfed?
I am just saying, perhaps it is wiser to pick a deck that wins a bit less and never risk losing it, than picking an overpowered one that ends up deservingly crippled.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Get a job.
Being F2P doesn't entitle you to complain. You only wasted time getting cards, and blizz won't care about your opinion.
If you won't ccntribute to the existence of the game, why do you play hs?
I've already mentioned in my original post that one way to improve balance other than via nerfs is via buffs. In the end what you care about is the relative power level of cards, hence buffing some can be just as effective as nerfing some and lacks the effect of devaluing some people's investment in a particular deck. That said, the best way would be to ensure that balance issue never appear in the first place, in other words that they are addressed with the printing of new cards. Imo balance changes on Blizzard's part just a few weeks after the release of a new set of cards are either intended and aimed to make people spend more money on the game or more time playing it, or alternatively show poor design and balance testing on their part.
That is certainly an approach worth considering. That said at the time I invested into Odd Paladin it was actually considered a tier 2 deck in most classifications. And the other deck I've recently invested into namely Spell Hunter was too early of a call in terms of meta not being settled at the time I went for it. I have in the past invested into tier 2 deck and I think your advice is sound, thanks.
You know what card needs that should of got a nerf, Cataclysm. This card is so BS to see hit the board every game on turn 4. This card needs to be 6 cost +, so many cards that benefit from this effect now that it's just getting stupid. I'm tired of playing exodia mage to play around this crap.
............what.
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Kingsbane was considered a tier 2 deck even before the meta could adapt to it. No way it would've become tier 1.
Blizzard did a hell of a job releasing in raiding party THE card to push kingsbane rogue out of tier 4 and nerfing one essential card only two weeks after. That's just erratic. How are you supposed to see that coming?
Therefore II'd also like to get compensated for my doomerangs which won't be useful neither standard nor wild once the card rotates. Surely this is not going to happen but as f2p I find the nerfs not funny.
Man the entitlement here is real.
Consider that in wild Kingsbane certainly was not tier 2 or tier 4, but was at least tier 1 in many regards. That deck even heavily punished slow control mage decks (you know the deck with semi-permanent freeze effects?). We didn't get random dust refunds for all of the control cards we crafted to hope to both have fun with and legitimately climb with on ladder, just to sumo slammed by this single idiotic deck. That wasn't funny for us either. Why should you deserve dust refunds for cards not directly nerfed now that you are on the end of having a less than viable deck now?
I agree. That was cruel what they did with kingsbane