Seems like you've misunderstood something. The problemelatic card wasn't Kingsbane but Leeching Poison. If Kingsbane was actually the problem, then there's no reason for this discussing a refund for it, cause then it still works quite fine.
Read the post before yours, it explains why it's kingsbane fault pretty fine.
First of, I am a f*ing whale and can play almost any deck I want. However I am still bothered by the way the nerfs were implemented. I don't want to say that the nerfs are bad in general, but one thing is really bad about this: not giving any notice of nerfs coming at all and announcing them overnight at the worst possible moment.
Because, after two weeks in a new expansion, many people decide to craft something, because by this time you can start to tell whats rather good and whats not so good. So, right in this time window they suddenly bring big nerfs without any announcement. If people had known that nerfs were coming, they would have been a little more cautious. And that would just have been fair. I can totally understand the frustration of many people, especially f2p players. Of course, you cannot compensate for the legendarys that got nerfed indirectly.
However, this is just a horrible business practice and honestly makes me a bit suspicious about Blizzards economic policy. It might be farstretched, but I could imagine they choose this time exactly because of the mentioned things. This is Blizzard's second big blunder in a short period (Diablo Immortal announcement was the other one). Activision will destroy the last bit of integrity the company had. Sad.
Seems like you've misunderstood something. The problemelatic card wasn't Kingsbane but Leeching Poison. If Kingsbane was actually the problem, then there's no reason for this discussing a refund for it, cause then it still works quite fine.
Read the post before yours, it explains why it's kingsbane fault pretty fine.
It doesn't really, cause you can turn it the other way around aswell if you want. Just like Leeching Poison is a perfectly fine card without something like Kingsbane, Kingsbane is a perfectly fine card without something like Leeching Poison.
How can you seriously argue that Kingsbane is now a dead card and people should be refunded for it, but at the same time say it was the problematic card? How is Kingsbane supposed to be both destroyed and problematic at the same time?
I get that it might cause design issues, but this nerf and this topic has never been about design issue.
In the case which OP trying to point out: I crafted Mojomaster Zihi a week ago, to own the card in case I encounter a lot of druids on the ladder. So now I should ask Blizzard to rewrite the refund-policy, because it will be less effective, after Wild Growth and Nourish nerfs? Please, be a little reasonable. It is not an obligation to craft every deck which said to be Tier 1. An average player can easily reach legend in every month with all of Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks from hsreplay.net tierlist, and these list in the first to Tier consists 21 decks. Beside reaching legend what is your goal, if you are not aiming for Top100? (which is pretty hard to do as an average player with and average amount of time spent in HS, not excessive). In fact, an average player gets his best reward when reaches Rank5.
TL;DR - craft a card when you love it, and love playing with it. Don't craft it for the results, it kills everything.
Many ppl said that fixing KB required creating an ooze card that silences and destroys weapon. That would have been a bigger nerf with no dust refund. Blizzard found the correct way without changing the kb card mechanics
But this tech didn't aim to counter druids. It's a counter to every combo (and possibly control) deck, when you are running a proactive strategy. This tech allows you to hinder delay the opponent's finishing combo/big AoE and to apply more pressure. It buys you time not only against druids.
But this tech didn't aim to counter druids. It's a counter to every combo (and possibly control) deck, when you are running a proactive strategy. This tech allows you to hinder delay the opponent's finishing combo/big AoE and to apply more pressure. It buys you time not only against druids.
Exactly. I decided to craft it, because I saw many situations, where it will be useful, not just one, and did not craft it for the results. But if I follow the logic of this topic's OP, I should wine for refund.
The legendaries have the same: they not only useful with the nerfed cards.
Blizzard is just trying to repair things, which broke the game multiple ways. Sometimes you got the benefit from nerfs, sometimes you don't. Sometimes the so called gamebreaking cards are loved and played by you, sometimes they aren't... It is simple as this. These changes are good for the game, and if your card or dust economy is crippled by these nerfs - it's bad for you, but if you love this game, and want this game to healthy, then its your fair share to ensure it...
I played odd paladin sometimes, because it was the most effective choice in that moment. I crafted Level Up! to be able to play odd pally. I crafted the whole Shudderwock deck, because I liked it sometimes. But it is fine to be obliterated, because I love to play HS.
Try to observe the game with a broader spectrum. Try new heroes, new archetypes, and if you want a bigger collection and better economy, play more, or play more Arena.
I do like the nerfs but man I hate these guys defending this big company horsecrap as if some free dust would sink the studio. They are fixing their own lousy work and make you pay for it. This wouldn't be any real problem if this game was reasonably priced and not so damn stingy with rewards.
I feel like you want a refund purely because you own Shudderwock or at least your card collection thinks you do. Everything you say is clearly biased and can no longer be taken seriously, good day
I can't understand something. Why do people always assume, that we have ulterior motives when we say those things? Is it that hard to believe, that there is a person, who wants to defend others and who proposed some constructive changes for the future of the game? I'm presenting here objective arguments, aren't I? If you don't agree with them or you think they don't correspond to the reality of things, then you are welcome to make counterarguments. However I am not going to reply to quotes like this one, because this is not a real argument. You make a claim based on someone's card collection and you try to refute them in this discussion. If you are going to continue like this, there is no point of me replying to you.
Inb4 I do own Shudderwock and I also consciously crafted Grumble, Worldshaker. But no, I don't want a refund, because I don't play this deck on the ladder (my only standard ladder deck is control warlock), as I only care about the wild meme version with Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. And even if a dust refund was presented to me, I would have refused it, because I would still want to play this meme deck.
So I don't really care about my collection and everything concerning me personally. However I pity others and I certainly don't agree that things should be left unchanged, because the flaws of this refund policy are punishing for players (especially those with a poor collection). As I said countless times - the things, which happened to Shudderwock and Kingsbane will occur with a future deck.
People say these things because when the person arguing owns the thing they're arguing for, it automatically seems like they have an ulterior motive. The proposed change is preposterous, refund cards that are indirectly nerfed. If they did this, for example, every single buff card would have to be refunded due to the recent Saronite Chain Gang nerf. That is absolutely absurd. Only cards that get directly nerfed deserve a refund for this reason. I obviously don't agree with your proposed changes and have made counterarguments in my post before this. My claim was very real, you need to understand how easy it is to think you have an ulterior motive.
The dust refund policy has been the same since launch as far as I know. It's simple, card gets nerfed, you get full dust refund. Do I think it's fair? Yes. Could it be changed for the better? Sure, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Should Baku also give a full dust refund? And Grumble?
Maybe next time you're crafting cards you consider if you can use those cards in more than just one deck. Personally I don't think the affected archetypes are dead, they'd just have to take a different deck building approach which in turn won't make them as oppressive.
This thread is a really good example why Blizzard is reluctant to make balance changes.
I do like the nerfs but man I hate these guys defending this big company horsecrap as if some free dust would sink the studio. They are fixing their own lousy work and make you pay for it. This wouldn't be any real problem if this game was reasonably priced and not so damn stingy with rewards.
it's not like i defending blizz, but no one actually force you to buy cards. this is a f2p game.
yes some people paid for it, but then again it's not forced. they should've known the risk. and if you think that blizz should be blame for their own lousy work like you said, then maybe you need to find another game that'll let you win 100%. nobodies are born flawless.
People say these things because when the person arguing owns the thing they're arguing for, it automatically seems like they have an ulterior motive. The proposed change is preposterous, refund cards that are indirectly nerfed. If they did this, for example, every single buff card would have to be refunded due to the recent Saronite Chain Gang nerf. That is absolutely absurd. Only cards that get directly nerfed deserve a refund for this reason. I obviously don't agree with your proposed changes and have made counterarguments in my post before this. My claim was very real, you need to understand how easy it is to think you have an ulterior motive.
I don't really care, if someone takes me as a person with ulterior motives. People can take me for whatever they want. However in a discussion this isn't a solid argument.
Anyway come to think of it, you are right about the hand buffing part. It is kinda absurd to refund every single hand-buff one, which benefited from Saronite Chain Gang, starting with Don Han'Cho and his gang moving forward to Val'anyr, Glowstone Technician, Arena Fanatic and Surrender to Madness. So things are a lot more complicated than I thought. And despite this I still believe, that a semi refund could be considered, but to what extent and which cards could be involved should be discussed between both sides.
I know you will disagree, but you can't deny that the affected cards are affected differently by the nerfs. Hand-buff decks just lost a good duplicating target, but their strategy still lives on. It's another topic for the Shudder combo, which was removed from standard (and I need a video to see whether the lifesteal from Leeching Poison can be manipulated through clever plays or not). For me when a specific play-style isn't available in a certain format anymore, then part of the investments should be refunded, because the initial intention of playing those cards isn't there anymore. Someone finds a specific aspect of a certain legendary/epic to be interesting and when that gets removed, then this is also a "nerf" even if it isn't a direct one.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me on the last part and I can understand them. It's kinda hard to see my PoV, when the rotation is just around the corner and the Shudder combo is still available in wild (the Kingsbane might be too even in standard, but I need to see a video regarding the leeching poison interaction). However there is a flaw in the dust refund policy and if it's not visible with the two* aforementioned archtypes, then it will be the case with a future deck running many situational cards.
Read the post before yours, it explains why it's kingsbane fault pretty fine.
I will crush you!
Besides just agroing face, can't tell u how many times I leaching poisoned but never got enough buffs for it to be useful
First of, I am a f*ing whale and can play almost any deck I want. However I am still bothered by the way the nerfs were implemented. I don't want to say that the nerfs are bad in general, but one thing is really bad about this: not giving any notice of nerfs coming at all and announcing them overnight at the worst possible moment.
Because, after two weeks in a new expansion, many people decide to craft something, because by this time you can start to tell whats rather good and whats not so good. So, right in this time window they suddenly bring big nerfs without any announcement. If people had known that nerfs were coming, they would have been a little more cautious. And that would just have been fair. I can totally understand the frustration of many people, especially f2p players. Of course, you cannot compensate for the legendarys that got nerfed indirectly.
However, this is just a horrible business practice and honestly makes me a bit suspicious about Blizzards economic policy. It might be farstretched, but I could imagine they choose this time exactly because of the mentioned things. This is Blizzard's second big blunder in a short period (Diablo Immortal announcement was the other one). Activision will destroy the last bit of integrity the company had. Sad.
It doesn't really, cause you can turn it the other way around aswell if you want.
Just like Leeching Poison is a perfectly fine card without something like Kingsbane, Kingsbane is a perfectly fine card without something like Leeching Poison.
How can you seriously argue that Kingsbane is now a dead card and people should be refunded for it, but at the same time say it was the problematic card? How is Kingsbane supposed to be both destroyed and problematic at the same time?
I get that it might cause design issues, but this nerf and this topic has never been about design issue.
Each "balance" patch force players to do major "crafting activity" (which translates to $$),
for example, about 40% of players impacted by last Nerfs (All Druid Players, most Paladins, most Shamans, most Rogues) ,
Now they need to find (craft..) a new Strong deck to play, so they choose Recruit/Death Hunter, which costs > 10K dust (100$),
Nice profit to blizzard which you all pay from Nerf to Nerf.
In the case which OP trying to point out: I crafted Mojomaster Zihi a week ago, to own the card in case I encounter a lot of druids on the ladder. So now I should ask Blizzard to rewrite the refund-policy, because it will be less effective, after Wild Growth and Nourish nerfs? Please, be a little reasonable. It is not an obligation to craft every deck which said to be Tier 1. An average player can easily reach legend in every month with all of Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks from hsreplay.net tierlist, and these list in the first to Tier consists 21 decks. Beside reaching legend what is your goal, if you are not aiming for Top100? (which is pretty hard to do as an average player with and average amount of time spent in HS, not excessive). In fact, an average player gets his best reward when reaches Rank5.
TL;DR - craft a card when you love it, and love playing with it. Don't craft it for the results, it kills everything.
Many ppl said that fixing KB required creating an ooze card that silences and destroys weapon. That would have been a bigger nerf with no dust refund. Blizzard found the correct way without changing the kb card mechanics
But this tech didn't aim to counter druids. It's a counter to every combo (and possibly control) deck, when you are running a proactive strategy. This tech allows you to
hinderdelay the opponent's finishing combo/big AoE and to apply more pressure. It buys you time not only against druids.Exactly. I decided to craft it, because I saw many situations, where it will be useful, not just one, and did not craft it for the results. But if I follow the logic of this topic's OP, I should wine for refund.
The legendaries have the same: they not only useful with the nerfed cards.
Blizzard is just trying to repair things, which broke the game multiple ways. Sometimes you got the benefit from nerfs, sometimes you don't. Sometimes the so called gamebreaking cards are loved and played by you, sometimes they aren't... It is simple as this. These changes are good for the game, and if your card or dust economy is crippled by these nerfs - it's bad for you, but if you love this game, and want this game to healthy, then its your fair share to ensure it...
I played odd paladin sometimes, because it was the most effective choice in that moment. I crafted Level Up! to be able to play odd pally. I crafted the whole Shudderwock deck, because I liked it sometimes. But it is fine to be obliterated, because I love to play HS.
Try to observe the game with a broader spectrum. Try new heroes, new archetypes, and if you want a bigger collection and better economy, play more, or play more Arena.
I do like the nerfs but man I hate these guys defending this big company horsecrap as if some free dust would sink the studio. They are fixing their own lousy work and make you pay for it. This wouldn't be any real problem if this game was reasonably priced and not so damn stingy with rewards.
I love how the people saying it’s a punishment are the players that play secret hunter and emote when they play their 12/12 on turn 5.
How is it not fair? Nerfed cards give full refunds.
If the archetype was affected, it will adapt, as has happened every time.
Stop whining
People say these things because when the person arguing owns the thing they're arguing for, it automatically seems like they have an ulterior motive. The proposed change is preposterous, refund cards that are indirectly nerfed. If they did this, for example, every single buff card would have to be refunded due to the recent Saronite Chain Gang nerf. That is absolutely absurd. Only cards that get directly nerfed deserve a refund for this reason. I obviously don't agree with your proposed changes and have made counterarguments in my post before this. My claim was very real, you need to understand how easy it is to think you have an ulterior motive.
tell me how shudder gna adapt to this
The dust refund policy has been the same since launch as far as I know. It's simple, card gets nerfed, you get full dust refund. Do I think it's fair? Yes. Could it be changed for the better? Sure, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Should Baku also give a full dust refund? And Grumble?
Maybe next time you're crafting cards you consider if you can use those cards in more than just one deck. Personally I don't think the affected archetypes are dead, they'd just have to take a different deck building approach which in turn won't make them as oppressive.
This thread is a really good example why Blizzard is reluctant to make balance changes.
it's not like i defending blizz, but no one actually force you to buy cards. this is a f2p game.
yes some people paid for it, but then again it's not forced. they should've known the risk. and if you think that blizz should be blame for their own lousy work like you said, then maybe you need to find another game that'll let you win 100%. nobodies are born flawless.
"hey! hey! you wanna buy a funnel cake?"
I don't really care, if someone takes me as a person with ulterior motives. People can take me for whatever they want. However in a discussion this isn't a solid argument.
Anyway come to think of it, you are right about the hand buffing part. It is kinda absurd to refund every single hand-buff one, which benefited from Saronite Chain Gang, starting with Don Han'Cho and his gang moving forward to Val'anyr, Glowstone Technician, Arena Fanatic and Surrender to Madness. So things are a lot more complicated than I thought. And despite this I still believe, that a semi refund could be considered, but to what extent and which cards could be involved should be discussed between both sides.
I know you will disagree, but you can't deny that the affected cards are affected differently by the nerfs. Hand-buff decks just lost a good duplicating target, but their strategy still lives on. It's another topic for the Shudder combo, which was removed from standard (and I need a video to see whether the lifesteal from Leeching Poison can be manipulated through clever plays or not). For me when a specific play-style isn't available in a certain format anymore, then part of the investments should be refunded, because the initial intention of playing those cards isn't there anymore. Someone finds a specific aspect of a certain legendary/epic to be interesting and when that gets removed, then this is also a "nerf" even if it isn't a direct one.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me on the last part and I can understand them. It's kinda hard to see my PoV, when the rotation is just around the corner and the Shudder combo is still available in wild (the Kingsbane might be too even in standard, but I need to see a video regarding the leeching poison interaction). However there is a flaw in the dust refund policy and if it's not visible with the two* aforementioned archtypes, then it will be the case with a future deck running many situational cards.
Git gud
The infinite combo is dead but surely there exists a series of battlecries that when triggered together are pretty strong.
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