I can play Reno, I can play pirates, or I can play a deck that loses. You can have your variety, I prefer to win.
You are a terrible player then. Sorry but that's the truth, and what you claim is absolute bullshit.
Basically you are saying "i'm so bad that I can only win with Tier 1 decks".
You are what makes these forums so toxic then. Sorry but that's the truth, and what you claim otherwise is completely and utterly untrue.
Basically what you are saying is "You're all stupid for playing decks I don't like, because the decks I like are the only good decks."
what is toxic about this forum is people with inflated ego and their well written ''opinion'' and lines of bullshit that lacks silly things like Statistics , facts or even professionals opinion ( i know Kripp isn't one ) .
It's hard to argue with people that find it perfectly fine that a single package is run in 50% of the decks according to blizz , a single class dominant for almost 2 years now , and a single agressive deck architect that is even other agressive architectes and killing an entire class ( paladin and hunter )
Also, Reno is the cancer the idea that you can RNG an aggro deck to a loss if you make it to turn 6 is causing way too many aggro-less matchups go to fatigue.
When reno is gone and some of the aggro enabling OP shaman stuff is gone the meta will really morph in a positive way. Assuming that hunter is given something useful and they kill off auctioneer so that they can give rogue something decent and control oriented, I think it is safe to assume that much of the current aggro is going to go the way of the old face hunters.
wouldn't it be awesome to see some midrange decks again (other than mid-range shaman of course). Makes me wish for the good old days of midrange (aka secret) palladin. Ohh wait - I play mostly wild to avoid the flavor of the month standard. In wild midrange secret pally is king!
Yeah, it's hilarious that people say reno counters aggro yet my stats prove otherwise. Especially renolock which absolutely gets crushed by aggro. They lose like 90% of the time if they don't draw reno (which happens > 50% of the time), and the times they do draw reno they're maybe a 2 to 1 favorite to win. That's IF they make it to turn 6, and a fair # of aggro shaman vs renolock games result in a turn 4 or turn 5 kill.
Reno mage/priest are the hardest matchups since if mage has no play they can hero power to remove something, priest can hero power to heal. Renolock's hero power puts them 2 closer to my goal.
If you want to beat aggro you need something more consistent than hoping you draw 1 card that heals you to full. Especially when you play that card on a full board so that it has no effect: https://hsreplay.net/replay/97GojnGt62yufa8T4caUe7
Nobody is saying that Reno counters aggro. Reno makes it impossible to play anything else but turn 5 aggro. Which you've pointed out nicely with your stats.
Renolock is 90% the reason I play aggro. It's such a suffer to play against so I decided to switch to a 5 turn kill deck so they won't have any opportunity to play their OP cards. Kind of refreshing to play a few hundred games and never see a twisting nether once.
So everyone plays turn 5 aggro. Which makes it about a 50% win rate mirror match meta. With a bonus for beating reno decks. And any other decks that aren't geared towards defeating Aggro. Which leaves decks that aren't Reno with a lower than 50% winrate because they don't stand a chance against Reno because they have to tech in aggro defense. So you play turn 5 aggro. But aggro is not the problem, there has always been aggro. The problem is when you play against Reno. You know you tech against aggro so when you run into Reno, you should just concede, and hope to face more aggro. I think that may be the safe bet. Tech against Aggro and make sure you can beat them handily, and when you face Reno just concede, because you are more likely to have quick wins against aggro. That should give you a high win percentage. Also, you don't waste your time waiting to see what dumb Kazakus card(s) are played 30 minutes later. And you get more time to climb the ladder on the backs of the aggro who think they stand a chance against you.
Also, Reno is the cancer the idea that you can RNG an aggro deck to a loss if you make it to turn 6 is causing way too many aggro-less matchups go to fatigue.
When reno is gone and some of the aggro enabling OP shaman stuff is gone the meta will really morph in a positive way. Assuming that hunter is given something useful and they kill off auctioneer so that they can give rogue something decent and control oriented, I think it is safe to assume that much of the current aggro is going to go the way of the old face hunters.
wouldn't it be awesome to see some midrange decks again (other than mid-range shaman of course). Makes me wish for the good old days of midrange (aka secret) palladin. Ohh wait - I play mostly wild to avoid the flavor of the month standard. In wild midrange secret pally is king!
Yeah, it's hilarious that people say reno counters aggro yet my stats prove otherwise. Especially renolock which absolutely gets crushed by aggro. They lose like 90% of the time if they don't draw reno (which happens > 50% of the time), and the times they do draw reno they're maybe a 2 to 1 favorite to win. That's IF they make it to turn 6, and a fair # of aggro shaman vs renolock games result in a turn 4 or turn 5 kill.
Reno mage/priest are the hardest matchups since if mage has no play they can hero power to remove something, priest can hero power to heal. Renolock's hero power puts them 2 closer to my goal.
If you want to beat aggro you need something more consistent than hoping you draw 1 card that heals you to full. Especially when you play that card on a full board so that it has no effect: https://hsreplay.net/replay/97GojnGt62yufa8T4caUe7
So, which other decks would you suggest in order to counter Pirate Warrior, Aggro Shaman and Mid-Jade Shaman effectively? It's true that Reno decks don't seem to work very well against it. But there don't seem to be any other decks that are effective against extreme Aggro decks, because you are dead on turn 6 anyway (or shortly after that). Reno can sometimes get you out of a pinch, but if you don't even have him in the deck, you are just doomed to loose around turn 7-10.
For a while I was thinking that maybe Patron Warrior would work reasonably well in such a meta, since traditionally it was very favoured against aggressive decks due to all the Whirlwind effects, Armor gain and stuff. But unfortunately it seems that the current generation of Aggro decks is even too fast for Grim Patron Warrior. And on top of that, you are almost certainly going to loose against Reno decks, if you are playing Patron Warrior.
At this point i really don't know any good way to consistently counter aggressive decks, since their early game is just way too strong and there are no counters. Also if you commit yourself too much into countering Aggro Shaman and Pirate Warrior, then you are most likely going to loose against Mid-Jade Shaman and most Reno decks. And it's not even guaranteed that you win against Aggro decks. If you don't get the right tools in your starting hand, they might kill you anyway.
I am honestly thinking about taking a break, because there is just no way to consistently beat Pirate Aggro decks at the moment.
Well, control decks beat aggro, but the problem is reno decks and jade decks crush control decks by a much bigger margin than their edge vs aggro.
Now I'm not cool with playing a game where I'm at a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 disadvantage, so the only solution is to play turn 5 kill aggro where I don't have to deal with bullshit matchups like dragon priest vs renolock. Nothing annoyed me more than the turn 4 4/9 drake or turn 4 mountain giant, and that's stuff I'll never have to see again thanks to aggro, since if they tap 2 times to try to cheap me out with that it's practically a guaranteed turn 5 kill.
Nobody is saying that Reno counters aggro. Reno makes it impossible to play anything else but turn 5 aggro. Which you've pointed out nicely with your stats.
Renolock is 90% the reason I play aggro. It's such a suffer to play against so I decided to switch to a 5 turn kill deck so they won't have any opportunity to play their OP cards. Kind of refreshing to play a few hundred games and never see a twisting nether once.
Another post by scout1515 another butthurted post about reno.Just change your account name to Renomakesmecry1515.
Except for the fact that I rek reno now with my aggro.
Nobody is saying that Reno counters aggro. Reno makes it impossible to play anything else but turn 5 aggro. Which you've pointed out nicely with your stats.
Renolock is 90% the reason I play aggro. It's such a suffer to play against so I decided to switch to a 5 turn kill deck so they won't have any opportunity to play their OP cards. Kind of refreshing to play a few hundred games and never see a twisting nether once.
Another post by scout1515 another butthurted post about reno.Just change your account name to Renomakesmecry1515.
Except for the fact that I rek reno now with my aggro.
Much good,very badass,wow. Then why you bitch non stop about him smorcie?
Because it makes it so you can't play anything except for aggro if you don't want unfair matchups.
Because it makes it so you can't play anything except for aggro if you don't want unfair matchups.
Yeap,you can't play anything else against reno decks,except miracle rogue,otk decks,midrange hunter and full jade decks.
Dude you posts are joke,you play smorc because it's op and reno counters you.I dominate face decks with ultra anti aggro renomage.Reno decks heavy teched feast on aggro.Reno makes you cry and you bitch about it end of story.Reno is a meh card against any non aggro deck.
Bruh stop wasting typing energy,this dude posts make as sense as sleepturtle's.And that says a lot :D
Nobody is saying that Reno counters aggro. Reno makes it impossible to play anything else but turn 5 aggro. Which you've pointed out nicely with your stats.
Renolock is 90% the reason I play aggro. It's such a suffer to play against so I decided to switch to a 5 turn kill deck so they won't have any opportunity to play their OP cards. Kind of refreshing to play a few hundred games and never see a twisting nether once.
Another post by scout1515 another butthurted post about reno.Just change your account name to Renomakesmecry1515.
Except for the fact that I rek reno now with my aggro.
Much good,very badass,wow. Then why you bitch non stop about him smorcie?
Because it makes it so you can't play anything except for aggro if you don't want unfair matchups.
Yeap,you can't play anything else against reno decks,except miracle rogue,otk decks,midrange hunter and full jade decks.
Dude you posts are joke,you play smorc because it's op and reno counters you.I dominate face decks with ultra anti aggro renomage.Reno decks heavy teched feast on aggro.Reno makes you cry and you bitch about it end of story.Reno is a meh card against any non aggro deck.
Maybe you missed it, but I posted my stats for my climb to legend this month:
Nobody is saying that Reno counters aggro. Reno makes it impossible to play anything else but turn 5 aggro. Which you've pointed out nicely with your stats.
Renolock is 90% the reason I play aggro. It's such a suffer to play against so I decided to switch to a 5 turn kill deck so they won't have any opportunity to play their OP cards. Kind of refreshing to play a few hundred games and never see a twisting nether once.
Another post by scout1515 another butthurted post about reno.Just change your account name to Renomakesmecry1515.
Except for the fact that I rek reno now with my aggro.
Much good,very badass,wow. Then why you bitch non stop about him smorcie?
Because it makes it so you can't play anything except for aggro if you don't want unfair matchups.
Yeap,you can't play anything else against reno decks,except miracle rogue,otk decks,midrange hunter and full jade decks.
Dude you posts are joke,you play smorc because it's op and reno counters you.I dominate face decks with ultra anti aggro renomage.Reno decks heavy teched feast on aggro.Reno makes you cry and you bitch about it end of story.Reno is a meh card against any non aggro deck.
Maybe you missed it, but I posted my stats for my climb to legend this month:
Where do you see reno being an unfavorable matchup for me? I'm seeing an even matchup against reno mage, and me crushing renolock
You will be the first to cry with the incoming nerfs to pirates, and the shaman. Oh, and I can't wait for next set when the aggro shaman will be trash tier again. Your tears will be salty, because you won't be able to climb to Legend with an OP aggro shaman decks /grin
I can't wait to read your future salt threads in the near future :)
Nobody is saying that Reno counters aggro. Reno makes it impossible to play anything else but turn 5 aggro. Which you've pointed out nicely with your stats.
Renolock is 90% the reason I play aggro. It's such a suffer to play against so I decided to switch to a 5 turn kill deck so they won't have any opportunity to play their OP cards. Kind of refreshing to play a few hundred games and never see a twisting nether once.
Another post by scout1515 another butthurted post about reno.Just change your account name to Renomakesmecry1515.
Except for the fact that I rek reno now with my aggro.
Much good,very badass,wow. Then why you bitch non stop about him smorcie?
Because it makes it so you can't play anything except for aggro if you don't want unfair matchups.
Yeap,you can't play anything else against reno decks,except miracle rogue,otk decks,midrange hunter and full jade decks.
Dude you posts are joke,you play smorc because it's op and reno counters you.I dominate face decks with ultra anti aggro renomage.Reno decks heavy teched feast on aggro.Reno makes you cry and you bitch about it end of story.Reno is a meh card against any non aggro deck.
Maybe you missed it, but I posted my stats for my climb to legend this month:
Where do you see reno being an unfavorable matchup for me? I'm seeing an even matchup against reno mage, and me crushing renolock
You will be the first to cry with the incoming nerfs to pirates, and the shaman. Oh, and I can't wait for next set when the aggro shaman will be trash tier again. Your tears will be salty, because you won't be able to climb to Legend with an OP aggro shaman decks /grin
I can't wait to read your future salt threads in the near future :)
Because you know, I can't just play whatever is top tier next month and get easy legend again.
I've only been playing this game for a few months, and aggro shaman for like 2 weeks, if you think I have any attachment to a class/deck then lol.
Because you know, I can't just play whatever is top tier next month and get easy legend again.
What's the point of it tho, apart from wasting another 4-5 days? Even bots may eventually reach legend if using a proper well-balanced deck like aggro shaman.
Great thread title, wrong conclusion. There are cancer decks, and cancer players, but they're the result of cancerous incentives. As long as players decide they want to advance in ranked this will happen. Until we have many more ways to play some kind of limited format, competitive players will end up playing meta decks.
Quote from Shissan>>You will be the first to cry with the incoming nerfs to pirates, and the shaman. Oh, and I can't wait for next set when the aggro shaman will be trash tier again. Your tears will be salty, because you won't be able to climb to Legend with an OP aggro shaman decks /grin
i can't wait for the likes of him to quit this game altogether after nerf ,
The problem with the meta isn't the ultra efficient , aggro package that killed all other aggro decks , oppressed every midrange deck that isn't priest , and made it only possible to survive it's encounter through a turn 6 FULL HEAL . it's the only thing stopping it itself .
Reno Jackson is not fair , but 3 2 1 mana minion with 95 % 1 1 charge turn 1 is fair and balanced .
It doesn't matter whether reno gets rotated out, pirate decks get nerfed, or the powerful shaman cards get rotated out, any new decks that comes out after the rotation and the expansion which is strong enough to become popular is going to get called cancer. Every deck that is successful is cancer according to this community.
The problem is that it seems that people want a meta in which they can play a variety of different decks or create new decks and be successful. The problem is that while this is the case at the start of a new expansion in which the meta is just a big mess, the meta settles down once the strongest decks are discovered and the strongest decks become the most popular decks to use because of how good they are and generally more players want to win rather than just having fun.
Once the strongest decks have been established, these are the decks you will generally come up against most of the time on the ladder, after a while some players get sick of these decks being used all the time and these decks get labelled as "cancer." Every single meta after a new expansion has gone like this. Any new deck that is successful in the next meta will get called cancer.
So the real question is what can be done to fix this?
The whole aggro is cancer rant is a bit silly if you ask me, every deck exploits some aspect of the game. The fact that aggro takes less time per game to play does not mean it takes considerably less skill than a more forgiving control deck. If you are playing a tight aggro deck, often is miss 1 play lose the game. The problem with the current meta is that it's very polarized, with either very slow and controlly decks with reno (in a way reno lets you build a much slower deck as it fixes your aggro matchups when you draw it) or very aggressive decks that try to burn you before you play it, and virtually no combo/midrange decks, being midrange decks usuallly a good counter to aggro.
If they nerf the pirate package now, the meta is gonna become so slow you are gonna hate it, although it might be a good thing if other options for the earlygame come up.
The idea that a meta with 0 aggro decks is good and fun is nonsensical because aggro decks help keeping in check greedy decks.
It doesn't matter whether reno gets rotated out, pirate decks get nerfed, or the powerful shaman cards get rotated out, any new decks that comes out after the rotation and the expansion which is strong enough to become popular is going to get called cancer. Every deck that is successful is cancer according to this community.
The problem is that it seems that people want a meta in which they can play a variety of different decks or create new decks and be successful. The problem is that while this is the case at the start of a new expansion in which the meta is just a big mess, the meta settles down once the strongest decks are discovered and the strongest decks become the most popular decks to use because of how good they are and generally more players want to win rather than just having fun.
Once the strongest decks have been established, these are the decks you will generally come up against most of the time on the ladder, after a while some players get sick of these decks being used all the time and these decks get labelled as "cancer." Every single meta after a new expansion has gone like this. Any new deck that is successful in the next meta will get called cancer.
So the real question is what can be done to fix this?
You as a player need to learn to have fun even when losing.
If enough players do that, then decks stop being called cancerous.
The whole aggro is cancer rant is a bit silly if you ask me, every deck exploits some aspect of the game. The fact that aggro takes less time per game to play does not mean it takes considerably less skill than a more forgiving control deck. If you are playing a tight aggro deck, often is miss 1 play lose the game. The problem with the current meta is that it's very polarized, with either very slow and controlly decks with reno (in a way reno lets you build a much slower deck as it fixes your aggro matchups when you draw it) or very aggressive decks that try to burn you before you play it, and virtually no combo/midrange decks, being midrange decks usuallly a good counter to aggro.
If they nerf the pirate package now, the meta is gonna become so slow you are gonna hate it, although it might be a good thing if other options for the earlygame come up.
The idea that a meta with 0 aggro decks is good and fun is nonsensical because aggro decks help keeping in check greedy decks.
A whole entire class does not see any play at all. Is that not broken?
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
So everyone plays turn 5 aggro. Which makes it about a 50% win rate mirror match meta. With a bonus for beating reno decks. And any other decks that aren't geared towards defeating Aggro. Which leaves decks that aren't Reno with a lower than 50% winrate because they don't stand a chance against Reno because they have to tech in aggro defense. So you play turn 5 aggro. But aggro is not the problem, there has always been aggro. The problem is when you play against Reno. You know you tech against aggro so when you run into Reno, you should just concede, and hope to face more aggro. I think that may be the safe bet. Tech against Aggro and make sure you can beat them handily, and when you face Reno just concede, because you are more likely to have quick wins against aggro. That should give you a high win percentage. Also, you don't waste your time waiting to see what dumb Kazakus card(s) are played 30 minutes later. And you get more time to climb the ladder on the backs of the aggro who think they stand a chance against you.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Well put.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Reno is a cancer 42% of the games played in the last week for me have been vs reno
My Youtube Channel
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S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Great thread title, wrong conclusion. There are cancer decks, and cancer players, but they're the result of cancerous incentives. As long as players decide they want to advance in ranked this will happen. Until we have many more ways to play some kind of limited format, competitive players will end up playing meta decks.
It doesn't matter whether reno gets rotated out, pirate decks get nerfed, or the powerful shaman cards get rotated out, any new decks that comes out after the rotation and the expansion which is strong enough to become popular is going to get called cancer. Every deck that is successful is cancer according to this community.
The problem is that it seems that people want a meta in which they can play a variety of different decks or create new decks and be successful. The problem is that while this is the case at the start of a new expansion in which the meta is just a big mess, the meta settles down once the strongest decks are discovered and the strongest decks become the most popular decks to use because of how good they are and generally more players want to win rather than just having fun.
Once the strongest decks have been established, these are the decks you will generally come up against most of the time on the ladder, after a while some players get sick of these decks being used all the time and these decks get labelled as "cancer." Every single meta after a new expansion has gone like this. Any new deck that is successful in the next meta will get called cancer.
So the real question is what can be done to fix this?
The whole aggro is cancer rant is a bit silly if you ask me, every deck exploits some aspect of the game. The fact that aggro takes less time per game to play does not mean it takes considerably less skill than a more forgiving control deck. If you are playing a tight aggro deck, often is miss 1 play lose the game. The problem with the current meta is that it's very polarized, with either very slow and controlly decks with reno (in a way reno lets you build a much slower deck as it fixes your aggro matchups when you draw it) or very aggressive decks that try to burn you before you play it, and virtually no combo/midrange decks, being midrange decks usuallly a good counter to aggro.
If they nerf the pirate package now, the meta is gonna become so slow you are gonna hate it, although it might be a good thing if other options for the earlygame come up.
The idea that a meta with 0 aggro decks is good and fun is nonsensical because aggro decks help keeping in check greedy decks.
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