Any control player who complains about aggro is a clueless scrub. Control is the hard counter to aggro.
Well, nope, that's exactly the issue. Aggro decks are plain better, that's why they're still there and always will if you can't clear the board reliably before being with 10 hp left. The natural counter to aggro are combo decks and blizzard destroyed those by making any kind of threatening combo a turn 8+ thing. You can't label a deck as "control" if every game you are praying to draw TWO of your four board clears in the first five turns: those are pretty bad odds to begin with. (Because one doesn't cut it)
This is incorrect. In the overall rock paper scissors of card games, control beats aggro,combo beats control, midrange beats control, and aggro beats midrange. Also, if you're having issues with aggro, maybe play some more board clears. The refined Paladin control lists have like 6.
I think the biggest issue is that board clears in hearthstone are generally bad in contrast to how easy and consistent it is to flood a board as a good aggro deck since there are 100 flood cards, and most control decks run 2-3 board clears. So sometimes you don't draw your answer, or you just don't kill what you need to kill.
The issue is they are either mostly way over priced (ex flamestrike), inconsistent (ex doomsayer), or don't do enough against higher hp minions (ex holy nova). The only really solid board clears are in the form of hellfire, shadow flame, and brawl. however, shadow flame got hit pretty hard when Molten Giant got (totally, unnecessarily over-) nerfed, and brawl can sometimes rng you and leave a key minion alive. Equality is good, but needs an activator- a luxury that you don't always have time to find vs aggro. If blizzard wants a way to keep aggro in check, or wants to keep releasing garbage like 7/7 for 4 mana or Darkshire Counselman, we need better board clears. Excavated evil and lightbomb both were good directions (if not a bit overpriced), I would like to see more along those lines.
There is a little 1 mana 1/1 minion named Tentacle of N'zoth. He hears what you're saying, and he is crying right now. Tentacle of N'zoth can clear the aggressive one mana cards. Tentacle of N'zoth can clear the token cards. Tentacle of N'zoth just wants to be played. Please play Tentacle of N'zoth.
Tell me sir, why does a control deck has to 'sacrifice some deck quality' in order to beat aggro? Why not the other way around: do you see aggro sacrifice deck quality in order to beat control? Why is aggro that privileged?
Because aggro is proactive, you are the one that's reacting.
I make a move, ball's on your court. What do you do?
Oh, you choose to do nothing until turn 8? Nice!
That is why your archetype qualify as mindless. Which of course makes the most money for Blizzard. Congratulations.
Yup, because you can't react in time, opponent is suddenly mindless.
Who's more mindless, the one you called mindless or you, who lost to someone you called mindless.
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I'm honestly surprised these threads are still a thing. Before Whispers of the Old Gods came out, I would say you are absolutely correct. Aggro has too much going for it, control doesn't have enough answers, blah blah blah. The advent of Standard fixed most of these things. Sure, a 4 mana 7/7 is strong, but it also dies to removal. You had to use two cards to kill Piloted Shredder. Sure, some two drops are powerful, but they're not on the level of Mad Scientist, which was worth almost 5 mana in terms of what it actually did. When you play a boardclear, the board is actually clear these days, instead of being filled with tokens. Blizzard has fixed the old issue of control decks not being able to beat aggro. The matchup feels even, and the complex rock paper scissors feels like it's working right now. Just because your thrown together unrefined deck can't beat a proper refined aggressive deck doesn't mean the game is broken. Aggro is not the same cancer it once was, and I actually enjoy the challenge of refining my deck to beat it.
Wow. Being rank 10 at the end of the season sure does suck.
Tell me sir, why does a control deck has to 'sacrifice some deck quality' in order to beat aggro? Why not the other way around: do you see aggro sacrifice deck quality in order to beat control? Why is aggro that privileged?
Because aggro is proactive, you are the one that's reacting.
I make a move, ball's on your court. What do you do?
Oh, you choose to do nothing until turn 8? Nice!
That is why your archetype qualify as mindless. Which of course makes the most money for Blizzard. Congratulations.
Yup, because you can't react in time, opponent is suddenly mindless.
Who's more mindless, the one you called mindless or you, who lost to someone you called mindless.
In these kind of threads I will just copy paste this response that I wrote in another thread:
(TLDR at bottom)
Aggro decks exist because:
-They keep new players
New players don't have very much dust, and so the best deck that they can use is an aggro deck. If a new player plays an aggro deck, they can get high in rank to get more cards and eventually have more choice. If aggro decks didn't exist, most new players would quit because they couldn't win
-They keep the meta in balance
Without aggro, everyone would be trying to create the greediest control deck possible. I would rather have a diverse meta with aggro decks, combo, midrange, and control, than have a meta full of very late game control decks where each match takes 45 minutes. The truth is, without aggro decks, the meta would be even worse, and if you didn't have the cards for a late game control deck? Too bad. You can't be good at the game because you will just get crushed by greedy control decks.
-They force people to think while creating new decks
This slightly fits in with the last point, but is slightly different. Aggro decks require you to tune your deck to beat them, tune them to be more consistent. Overall, aggro being in the game will help new players gain vital deckbuilding skills. People win more with custom decks, why? Well, with aggro in the game you can't just make a greedy, cheesy combo deck and expect it to work, you need to tweak the deck to be able to counter aggro, and by making the deck better against aggro, you also increase the consistency of the deck, making it better in all matchups.
-Games are short
Most hearthstone players play in short sessions, fitting in games at work, school, or before certain activities. Aggro decks have very short games which let people get in more games. If there were no aggro decks, people who can't play for long sessions would play less because control decks generally have very long games. Also, because the games are faster, you rank up faster, complete quests faster, and earn gold faster. This is appealing to people who want to progress faster and get more cards.
-Aggro is more consistent
I know from experience, hearthstone players HATE when they don't draw what they need in their opening hand. But if everything in your deck does roughly the same thing, and you have a low curve, the deck is much more consistant. Because of this, it is more enjoyable to play for most players, because you don't ever feel helpless due to your opening hand.
-Aggro can get free wins
Another nice thing that people like about aggro decks, is there ability to pull out quick, free wins due to your opponents opening hand. Due to the speed of aggro decks, your opponent only has a certain amount of turns to draw what they need to counter you. If you are playing a control deck, your opponents hand doesn't matter very much because they will have plenty of time to draw into what they need.
-Aggro minimalizes tilt
Due to short games, your opponent has less chances to get lucky, making you tilt less. Also, because of consistent games, free wins to lower chances of losing streaks, and short games, you get much less angry at the game with aggro decks. Even if you lose, you didn't invest much time into the game and you can go on to the next. Because of lower tilt levels, you will make less misplays, increasing your winrate.
-Aggro is easier to play
Due to the lack of situational cards, or complex combos, aggro is easier to play/learn. This DOES NOT mean they are totally brainless, and still require quite a bit of skill to play correctly, but they are easier to learn and be good at then many other decks.
So in conclusion, aggro decks are not broken in any way, and the fact that you see lots on the ladder isn't just a coincidence. You need to stop raging at them and take a long look at your decklists, see what is causing you to loose against aggro decks. Is your deck inconsistant? Is it too greedy? Is it not good in the current meta?
Taking aggro out of the game would hurt hearthstone alot, and blizzard will never do it, so don't complain.
[b]TLDR: Aggro decks are fine for the game, good for new players, have many aspects that are appealing for most players, and are healthy for the meta.[/b]
I thought with the new Expansion and the Standard mode, Aggro will slow down a bit and people will play more Control decks. I was very wrong, because who would of thought, Shaman is once again, Overpowered. I had Cancer, and this new Aggro Shaman with the new Cards (4 Mana 7/7 as example) Just gave me Aids combined with my Cancer. Is Blizzard trying to keep Aggro alive? I'll admit there are some good Control Decks, because i love Control, but there are so Many Face Shamans and Tempo Warriors. WTF? Tempo Warrior? What do you guys think...
Agro need to exist, midrange too, control too and combo too, to have a healty meta we need to have everything
I have nightmares every night of leper gnomes stabbing me to death.
Player A loses one game out of 20, to a deck that isn't actually an aggro deck. Player A complain about aggro on the Internet. Players B through Z6 read these complaints, and realize "hey, I should play aggro and score some wins!"
The more you guys complain, the more aggro there will be, just saying.
I started again last week, and the game feels even worse than it was before. Not sure what was supposed to be accomplished by the latest changes, but combo druid is now miracle rogue, secret paladin is aggro shaman, zoo lock is still zoo lock, and if I do get matched against something not one of those it's some uninteractive piece of crap like freeze mage or face hunter. They could have made some solid new legendaries to build decks around, but they went for C'thun and Yogg instead, both of which are awful concepts as far as I'm concerned. Kudos to anyone enjoying the game, but I won't be joining you.
I started again last week, and the game feels even worse than it was before. Not sure what was supposed to be accomplished by the latest changes, but combo druid is now miracle rogue, secret paladin is aggro shaman, zoo lock is still zoo lock, and if I do get matched against something not one of those it's some uninteractive piece of crap like freeze mage or face hunter. They could have made some solid new legendaries to build decks around, but they went for C'thun and Yogg instead, both of which are awful concepts as far as I'm concerned. Kudos to anyone enjoying the game, but I won't be joining you.
See I find this interesting.. Miracle is nothing like combo druid, aggro shaman is pretty much paladin i'll give you that.. But zoo lock has never been bad for the meta. I generally get matched up against warriors, druids, C'thun decks, tempo, ect. Very rarely do I meet an aggro deck... The meta game feels slower these days, and in general it feels like the decision making has gone up, rather then just playing shredders on curve. I feel the game is in one of the best states it's ever been in, minus shaman any ways.
I crafted and played N'Zoth Paladin, it's a great deck, very strong.. but each game takes 20 mins+ to play.... I don't have time for that shit! So back to mid-range for me. Aggro happens for the same reason.
Nobody said that aggro should be taken out of the game. What is it with you people. Aggro is dominating now as ever in the days of eboladin and spammadin. That's is the unhealthy thing for the meta. If only control had more resources to battle mindlessness there would be more balance.
This is a balance discussion not a hate campaign against aggro.....
You can't make an outrageous claim like "aggro is dominating as ever" and act like you're not campaining against aggro decks. If you want to beat aggro, make a deck that beats aggro. There are plenty to choose from.
Except control is paper in this example. Combo is the scissors. Which goes to show you how deranged these scrubs who wins about not having a"control meta" are.
Except control is paper in this example. Combo is the scissors. Which goes to show you how deranged these scrubs who wins about not having a"control meta" are.
Again. Please don't lie. It only further weakens your point.
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People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
Nobody said that aggro should be taken out of the game. What is it with you people. Aggro is dominating now as ever in the days of eboladin and spammadin. That's is the unhealthy thing for the meta. If only control had more resources to battle mindlessness there would be more balance.
This is a balance discussion not a hate campaign against aggro.....
You can't make an outrageous claim like "aggro is dominating as ever" and act like you're not campaining against aggro decks. If you want to beat aggro, make a deck that beats aggro. There are plenty to choose from.
He doesn't want to adjust to other strategies, instead he wants all other strategies to adjust to him. He is somehow our Hearthstone emperor or something.
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Lets see. They released a 4 mana 7/7. Seems pretty normal, will be never used in aggro decks.
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Yup, because you can't react in time, opponent is suddenly mindless.
Who's more mindless, the one you called mindless or you, who lost to someone you called mindless.
* Always play aggro crew
* Accept all friend request crew
* Don't mind/care if they rant crew
* Find it funny that they rant crew
* Google translate non english rant crew
* Most friends on my friends list are people I've beaten crew
Join my crew guys
Aggro decks are always gonna be a thing because at least 70% of the players have no dust to build a control deck.
If aggro was ever dead then nobody else would be able to hop in and start playing the game.
It would make the game trully pay to win because you would need 5000 dust just to start playing the game with a sub-par deck.
Aggro will always exist and will always be at least 50% of the meta.
In these kind of threads I will just copy paste this response that I wrote in another thread:
(TLDR at bottom)
Aggro decks exist because:
-They keep new players
New players don't have very much dust, and so the best deck that they can use is an aggro deck. If a new player plays an aggro deck, they can get high in rank to get more cards and eventually have more choice. If aggro decks didn't exist, most new players would quit because they couldn't win
-They keep the meta in balance
Without aggro, everyone would be trying to create the greediest control deck possible. I would rather have a diverse meta with aggro decks, combo, midrange, and control, than have a meta full of very late game control decks where each match takes 45 minutes. The truth is, without aggro decks, the meta would be even worse, and if you didn't have the cards for a late game control deck? Too bad. You can't be good at the game because you will just get crushed by greedy control decks.
-They force people to think while creating new decks
This slightly fits in with the last point, but is slightly different. Aggro decks require you to tune your deck to beat them, tune them to be more consistent. Overall, aggro being in the game will help new players gain vital deckbuilding skills. People win more with custom decks, why? Well, with aggro in the game you can't just make a greedy, cheesy combo deck and expect it to work, you need to tweak the deck to be able to counter aggro, and by making the deck better against aggro, you also increase the consistency of the deck, making it better in all matchups.
-Games are short
Most hearthstone players play in short sessions, fitting in games at work, school, or before certain activities. Aggro decks have very short games which let people get in more games. If there were no aggro decks, people who can't play for long sessions would play less because control decks generally have very long games. Also, because the games are faster, you rank up faster, complete quests faster, and earn gold faster. This is appealing to people who want to progress faster and get more cards.
-Aggro is more consistent
I know from experience, hearthstone players HATE when they don't draw what they need in their opening hand. But if everything in your deck does roughly the same thing, and you have a low curve, the deck is much more consistant. Because of this, it is more enjoyable to play for most players, because you don't ever feel helpless due to your opening hand.
-Aggro can get free wins
Another nice thing that people like about aggro decks, is there ability to pull out quick, free wins due to your opponents opening hand. Due to the speed of aggro decks, your opponent only has a certain amount of turns to draw what they need to counter you. If you are playing a control deck, your opponents hand doesn't matter very much because they will have plenty of time to draw into what they need.
-Aggro minimalizes tilt
Due to short games, your opponent has less chances to get lucky, making you tilt less. Also, because of consistent games, free wins to lower chances of losing streaks, and short games, you get much less angry at the game with aggro decks. Even if you lose, you didn't invest much time into the game and you can go on to the next. Because of lower tilt levels, you will make less misplays, increasing your winrate.
-Aggro is easier to play
Due to the lack of situational cards, or complex combos, aggro is easier to play/learn. This DOES NOT mean they are totally brainless, and still require quite a bit of skill to play correctly, but they are easier to learn and be good at then many other decks.
So in conclusion, aggro decks are not broken in any way, and the fact that you see lots on the ladder isn't just a coincidence. You need to stop raging at them and take a long look at your decklists, see what is causing you to loose against aggro decks. Is your deck inconsistant? Is it too greedy? Is it not good in the current meta?
Taking aggro out of the game would hurt hearthstone alot, and blizzard will never do it, so don't complain.
[b]TLDR: Aggro decks are fine for the game, good for new players, have many aspects that are appealing for most players, and are healthy for the meta.[/b]
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
Here's why aggro is still relevant:
Player A loses one game out of 20, to a deck that isn't actually an aggro deck.
Player A complain about aggro on the Internet.
Players B through Z6 read these complaints, and realize "hey, I should play aggro and score some wins!"
The more you guys complain, the more aggro there will be, just saying.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Great video of Kripp explaining what makes the aggros decks so good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA4ZzoXakrg
I started again last week, and the game feels even worse than it was before. Not sure what was supposed to be accomplished by the latest changes, but combo druid is now miracle rogue, secret paladin is aggro shaman, zoo lock is still zoo lock, and if I do get matched against something not one of those it's some uninteractive piece of crap like freeze mage or face hunter. They could have made some solid new legendaries to build decks around, but they went for C'thun and Yogg instead, both of which are awful concepts as far as I'm concerned. Kudos to anyone enjoying the game, but I won't be joining you.
I crafted and played N'Zoth Paladin, it's a great deck, very strong.. but each game takes 20 mins+ to play.... I don't have time for that shit! So back to mid-range for me. Aggro happens for the same reason.
Ibn Fahd.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
* Always play aggro crew
* Accept all friend request crew
* Don't mind/care if they rant crew
* Find it funny that they rant crew
* Google translate non english rant crew
* Most friends on my friends list are people I've beaten crew
Join my crew guys