Because it is needed. Because it shows what a real environment to test a deck is. Because it prevents some control decks to be the kings of greed and make them put some early game minions or removal.
And btw, if someday you get cancer, or AIDS or whatever, remember this thread to see how retarded you were back then.
If you ever have a child with a handicap, remember this thread.
People who irrationally hates aggro and wants it to completely disappear are even bigger scrubs than those who only play aggro. At least those who only play aggro don't whine about it.
Tell me sir why do I have to change decks all the time in order to beat aggro? If aggro-control was balanced then real skill would do the trick and not because I have a favorable matchup.
Because aggro has to change all the time to adapt to other decks as well? Besides, there is an extremely high probability that the decks you think of as "control decks" that "should beat aggro" aren't really control decks. They are greedy decks designed to beat other control.
I think the biggest issue is that board clears in hearthstone are generally bad in contrast to how easy and consistent it is to flood a board as a good aggro deck since there are 100 flood cards, and most control decks run 2-3 board clears. So sometimes you don't draw your answer, or you just don't kill what you need to kill.
The issue is they are either mostly way over priced (ex flamestrike), inconsistent (ex doomsayer), or don't do enough against higher hp minions (ex holy nova). The only really solid board clears are in the form of hellfire, shadow flame, and brawl. however, shadow flame got hit pretty hard when Molten Giant got (totally, unnecessarily over-) nerfed, and brawl can sometimes rng you and leave a key minion alive. Equality is good, but needs an activator- a luxury that you don't always have time to find vs aggro. If blizzard wants a way to keep aggro in check, or wants to keep releasing garbage like 7/7 for 4 mana or Darkshire Counselman, we need better board clears. Excavated evil and lightbomb both were good directions (if not a bit overpriced), I would like to see more along those lines.
i don't like when aggro dominates the ladder, and this isn't the case now, at least in the ranks i'm playing, i find some shamans but it's not the class i find the most and most of them aren't even that aggressive. i think it was kind of dumb when meta was face hunter and secret pally people were still defending that. right now though i think there's no reason to complain about aggro, it has to exist, as long as it doesn't take over the ladder.
Aggro adapts? Haha, they still use Stonetusk Boar and Abusive Sergeant. And really, agro people never whine about Control Priests or Armor Warriors? lol
Anyway, remember, if Mr. Pompous calls you a scrub, then obviously you are wrong.
Aggro rules because of game design, that's all. It's nearly impervious to the mulligan or reliant on the RNG of card draw, and strategy is less a factor. In fact I think, more than ever before, that this game has less to do with any skill than it does (A) deckbuilding, AKA netdecking pro decks, and (B) luck of the draw, at least as far as the so-called "competitive" part of the game goes.
Didn't read the other 3 pages. Someone was dumb enough to think the expansion would end aggro? People though the same thing every other expansion. I guess dreaming is free.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Any control player who complains about aggro is a clueless scrub. Control is the hard counter to aggro. If a control player loses to aggro, they are too greedy in their deck building and deserve to lose. Instead of coming here for help on How to properly tech their deck, a scrub whiner comes here to cry about it. Since this forum is infested with like minded scrubs, it serves as an echo chamber, and causes more scrubs to be encouraged in starting their own frivolous whine threads, until this site is so overrun with scrubbery that it ceases to be off and use to a player interested in actually winning games.
Lots of thoughts and opinions flying around here. I'll add my two cents:
1) Yes, Aggro is still alive and that's good as long as it's not the only viable archetype. Which it's not.
2) Crying about weak board clears won't do much good. Board clears are "get out of jail free cards", but even if they weren't, we all know how much Blizzard wants to push minion interaction. Board clears counter that very directly. I do agree that some decks/classes can build problematic boards too quickly, but without the disgusting Deathrattles in GvG and Naxx, it's not as bad as it once was.
3) I don't think anyone really thought Whispers would kill Aggro, but rather that it'd slow the meta down overall (which it has). I'm sure some people will disagree, but I think Hearthstone is in a pretty good spot right now.
Aggro adapts? Haha, they still use Stonetusk Boar and Abusive Sergeant. And really, agro people never whine about Control Priests or Armor Warriors? lol
Anyway, remember, if Mr. Pompous calls you a scrub, then obviously you are wrong.
Aggro rules because of game design, that's all. It's nearly impervious to the mulligan or reliant on the RNG of card draw, and strategy is less a factor. In fact I think, more than ever before, that this game has less to do with any skill than it does (A) deckbuilding, AKA netdecking pro decks, and (B) luck of the draw, at least as far as the so-called "competitive" part of the game goes.
You say aggro is naturally advantaged since it is impervious to Mulligan, but that is a double edges sword. If an aggro deck cannot finish off the opponent by t6, it will be topdecking 0-3 mana cards for the rest of the game. In other words, it will lose unless tremendous luck is involved.
It doesn't take much early game stalling for a control player to force an aggro decks to run out of steam, unless they are so concerned other control matches that their deck is too heavy to Mulligan well.
It kinda is if you like to test cool and slow control deck and then you get smorced down by some Shamans. Where is the fun in that?
... That's why they exist, to stop you from building a deck full of only 8 mana + costing cards. I rarely run into aggro these days, every thing is either mid range control or combo. The meta at least for right now, is pretty solid, the only exception is that shamans are in the position secret paladin used to be in.
Aggro adapts? Haha, they still use Stonetusk Boar and Abusive Sergeant. And really, agro people never whine about Control Priests or Armor Warriors? lol
Crazed alchemist is a tech card, and I am pretty sure I haven't seen any stonetusk boar in any good aggro list.
Yeah obviously aggro is dominating because control players just aren't teching right.
Maybe the next time I actually see a control player on the ladder I'll pay more attention to how they are teching. Oh right, I haven't seen any control in the last 2-3 days.
Any control player who complains about aggro is a clueless scrub. Control is the hard counter to aggro.
Well, nope, that's exactly the issue. Aggro decks are plain better, that's why they're still there and always will if you can't clear the board reliably before being with 10 hp left. The natural counter to aggro are combo decks and blizzard destroyed those by making any kind of threatening combo a turn 8+ thing. You can't label a deck as "control" if every game you are praying to draw TWO of your four board clears in the first five turns: those are pretty bad odds to begin with. (Because one doesn't cut it)
In Standard? Because removing ALL cards that helped to counter aggro definitively didn't helped. Zombie Chow, Deathlord and Sludge Belcher; none of this card exist anymore, and especially Zombie Chow was one of the most important tools to counter aggro. What did Aggro loose? Only Face Hunter lost something very important, Mad Scientist. And yes, they also lost Spectral Spider; but hey, a 1/2 that summons 2 1/1 doesn't make aggro unplayable. And that's all folks.
As long as the Basic and Expert-Decks are in rotation, aggro will stay strong, simply because the Basic and Expert-Sets are heavily aggro-focused. Luckily they nerfed some of the tools that were extremely annoying, but all in all that's far from enough.
Tell me sir, why does a control deck has to 'sacrifice some deck quality' in order to beat aggro? Why not the other way around: do you see aggro sacrifice deck quality in order to beat control? Why is aggro that privileged?
Because aggro is proactive, you are the one that's reacting.
I make a move, ball's on your court. What do you do?
Oh, you choose to do nothing until turn 8? Nice!
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* Always play aggro crew * Accept all friend request crew * Don't mind/care if they rant crew * Find it funny that they rant crew * Google translate non english rant crew * Most friends on my friends list are people I've beaten crew Join my crew guys
I'm honestly surprised these threads are still a thing. Before Whispers of the Old Gods came out, I would say you are absolutely correct. Aggro has too much going for it, control doesn't have enough answers, blah blah blah. The advent of Standard fixed most of these things. Sure, a 4 mana 7/7 is strong, but it also dies to removal. You had to use two cards to kill Piloted Shredder. Sure, some two drops are powerful, but they're not on the level of Mad Scientist, which was worth almost 5 mana in terms of what it actually did. When you play a boardclear, the board is actually clear these days, instead of being filled with tokens. Blizzard has fixed the old issue of control decks not being able to beat aggro. The matchup feels even, and the complex rock paper scissors feels like it's working right now. Just because your thrown together unrefined deck can't beat a proper refined aggressive deck doesn't mean the game is broken. Aggro is not the same cancer it once was, and I actually enjoy the challenge of refining my deck to beat it.
People who irrationally hates aggro and wants it to completely disappear are even bigger scrubs than those who only play aggro. At least those who only play aggro don't whine about it.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
I think the biggest issue is that board clears in hearthstone are generally bad in contrast to how easy and consistent it is to flood a board as a good aggro deck since there are 100 flood cards, and most control decks run 2-3 board clears. So sometimes you don't draw your answer, or you just don't kill what you need to kill.
The issue is they are either mostly way over priced (ex flamestrike), inconsistent (ex doomsayer), or don't do enough against higher hp minions (ex holy nova). The only really solid board clears are in the form of hellfire, shadow flame, and brawl. however, shadow flame got hit pretty hard when Molten Giant got (totally, unnecessarily over-) nerfed, and brawl can sometimes rng you and leave a key minion alive. Equality is good, but needs an activator- a luxury that you don't always have time to find vs aggro. If blizzard wants a way to keep aggro in check, or wants to keep releasing garbage like 7/7 for 4 mana or Darkshire Counselman, we need better board clears. Excavated evil and lightbomb both were good directions (if not a bit overpriced), I would like to see more along those lines.
i don't like when aggro dominates the ladder, and this isn't the case now, at least in the ranks i'm playing, i find some shamans but it's not the class i find the most and most of them aren't even that aggressive. i think it was kind of dumb when meta was face hunter and secret pally people were still defending that. right now though i think there's no reason to complain about aggro, it has to exist, as long as it doesn't take over the ladder.
Aggro adapts? Haha, they still use Stonetusk Boar and Abusive Sergeant. And really, agro people never whine about Control Priests or Armor Warriors? lol
Anyway, remember, if Mr. Pompous calls you a scrub, then obviously you are wrong.
Aggro rules because of game design, that's all. It's nearly impervious to the mulligan or reliant on the RNG of card draw, and strategy is less a factor. In fact I think, more than ever before, that this game has less to do with any skill than it does (A) deckbuilding, AKA netdecking pro decks, and (B) luck of the draw, at least as far as the so-called "competitive" part of the game goes.
Didn't read the other 3 pages. Someone was dumb enough to think the expansion would end aggro? People though the same thing every other expansion. I guess dreaming is free.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Any control player who complains about aggro is a clueless scrub. Control is the hard counter to aggro. If a control player loses to aggro, they are too greedy in their deck building and deserve to lose. Instead of coming here for help on How to properly tech their deck, a scrub whiner comes here to cry about it. Since this forum is infested with like minded scrubs, it serves as an echo chamber, and causes more scrubs to be encouraged in starting their own frivolous whine threads, until this site is so overrun with scrubbery that it ceases to be off and use to a player interested in actually winning games.
It is a good thing that we have some aggro decks in meta, they keep control players like myself in check and the decks less greedy.
Then again I have positive win ratio versus aggro with the N'zoth deck I have been playing.
Lots of thoughts and opinions flying around here. I'll add my two cents:
1) Yes, Aggro is still alive and that's good as long as it's not the only viable archetype. Which it's not.
2) Crying about weak board clears won't do much good. Board clears are "get out of jail free cards", but even if they weren't, we all know how much Blizzard wants to push minion interaction. Board clears counter that very directly. I do agree that some decks/classes can build problematic boards too quickly, but without the disgusting Deathrattles in GvG and Naxx, it's not as bad as it once was.
3) I don't think anyone really thought Whispers would kill Aggro, but rather that it'd slow the meta down overall (which it has). I'm sure some people will disagree, but I think Hearthstone is in a pretty good spot right now.
I have just to questions @WiseAsPlato
1)Why teching VS aggro thus increasing win rate would decrease the value of the deck?Ain't ya winning more scrub?
2)Why constantly changing the deck aka teching aka adapting to the meta is such a strange and hard concept for a player?
Skill is needed in deckbuilding brah,that's why you can't tech..."why do I have to change decks all the time in order to beat aggro" -Cringe worthy.
TL;DR: You are a shithead.
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
Yeah obviously aggro is dominating because control players just aren't teching right.
Maybe the next time I actually see a control player on the ladder I'll pay more attention to how they are teching. Oh right, I haven't seen any control in the last 2-3 days.
Why they are still alive? Because they must, otherwise, everything would be about "who has the biggest and -usually- most expensive shit".
It's true, tho, that shaman is actually a bit too crazy. But still this might be the less face meta I've ever seen.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
In Standard? Because removing ALL cards that helped to counter aggro definitively didn't helped. Zombie Chow, Deathlord and Sludge Belcher; none of this card exist anymore, and especially Zombie Chow was one of the most important tools to counter aggro. What did Aggro loose? Only Face Hunter lost something very important, Mad Scientist. And yes, they also lost Spectral Spider; but hey, a 1/2 that summons 2 1/1 doesn't make aggro unplayable. And that's all folks.
As long as the Basic and Expert-Decks are in rotation, aggro will stay strong, simply because the Basic and Expert-Sets are heavily aggro-focused. Luckily they nerfed some of the tools that were extremely annoying, but all in all that's far from enough.
* Always play aggro crew
* Accept all friend request crew
* Don't mind/care if they rant crew
* Find it funny that they rant crew
* Google translate non english rant crew
* Most friends on my friends list are people I've beaten crew
Join my crew guys
I'm honestly surprised these threads are still a thing. Before Whispers of the Old Gods came out, I would say you are absolutely correct. Aggro has too much going for it, control doesn't have enough answers, blah blah blah. The advent of Standard fixed most of these things. Sure, a 4 mana 7/7 is strong, but it also dies to removal. You had to use two cards to kill Piloted Shredder. Sure, some two drops are powerful, but they're not on the level of Mad Scientist, which was worth almost 5 mana in terms of what it actually did. When you play a boardclear, the board is actually clear these days, instead of being filled with tokens. Blizzard has fixed the old issue of control decks not being able to beat aggro. The matchup feels even, and the complex rock paper scissors feels like it's working right now. Just because your thrown together unrefined deck can't beat a proper refined aggressive deck doesn't mean the game is broken. Aggro is not the same cancer it once was, and I actually enjoy the challenge of refining my deck to beat it.
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