id like to see dark pact be put to 2 mana, or lackey be put to 6. turn 5 void lords/doomguards is too powerful tbh, and atleast you can stop the weapon
Since team 5 were saying how they were watching the deck to see if it was too powerful my take on this is that 1 of 3 things should be changed, either dark pact costs 2 mana(as i see it that would be the most proficient thing to do), cube costs 1 more so you can't cube into faceless on the same turn, or the one i think would have the less impact make lackey cost more, tho that would only really stall the demon 1 more turn
Dark pact is fine. You sacrifice a minen, which is huge tempo loss, in normal circumstances. The problem (if there is any) is the cube, witch is pretty high value
I don't think you even read the opening post?
I explained the way it's being used is too much of a reward for tiny investment.
Look at Conceal and Ice Lance. The same people saying Dark Pact is fine, were saying those two cards were fine.. They ended up getting banned from standard because they allowed their classes too much potential to win the game in certain situations (like dark pact healing away from lethal, giving you a large minion that combos into something else which invests into bloodreaver guldan .......)
I did read it, I just don't agree with the comparison. But I guess its the hen and the egg. Is Dark pact strong because of Cube, or is it the other way around. I think it will be changed though because it's getting so much hate, and that is something Blizzard had confirmed affect weather or not to nerf some cards.
There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.
Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.
Maybe nerf the weapon as well then? It costs 5 mana too and you can powerful demons early the same way you do it with the lackey. Again, if you are really into fighting against warlocks, you just have oozes, harrisons and two spellbreakers and that is how you beat warlock as aggro or control.
Probably the nerf to lackey feels like it is the easiest way to make a cut, but the weapon essentially does the same thing and is more consistent since you know what demons you pull out. How would you nerf the lackey? 2-2 at 6-7 cost? Or recruit not a demon but a ... creature?
Dark Pact is fine. Cubelock is fine. While the aggro player is trying to take down the lock player, the lock player is trying to survive till the end game. Win before the endgame as aggro or survive till the endgame and combo out. Both types of decks are capable of winning against the other. Healing and board control are core components in combo/control decks. Cubelock is mainly a combo deck.
The issue is the players who can't think for themselves on how to go about playing against specific decks. Once their style of play is stifled by a different play style, all they know how to do is complain. Don't want to play the counter against a specific deck or tech against it or learn the matchup and just improve as a player overall? Just leave the game because it's people like that who kill diversity.
They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.
Did you ask yourself why did they nerf raza and not anduin DK???? Dk can be used in multiple archetypes of decks and raza only in one and that one was the problem!!!!! Doomguard can be used in every warlock deck but he is the op only in cubelock....and guess what card is used only in cubelock as core card??? Lackey thats right...
Lackey as raza and doomguard as anduin dk... Hope you will understand why doomguard dont need nerf... You nerf card or one deck not entire class...
They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.
Yeah, I am just saying demons can still be pulled out even if the dark pact is nerfed so the problem lies even deeper for some people then.
Sanguine Reveler does nto heal either, and provides terrible value (even if the tempo is fine
Ratcatcher is too slow to enable the current combos, or would at least be far less reliable
Nerfing Dark Pact to "silence then destroy" only affects Cubelock, and I think nerfing Cubeloc would indeed be a very good thing, especially for midrange decks.
Dark Pact is fine. Cubelock is fine. While the aggro player is trying to take down the lock player, the lock player is trying to survive till the end game. Win before the endgame as aggro or survive till the endgame and combo out. Both types of decks are capable of winning against the other. Healing and board control are core components in combo/control decks. Cubelock is mainly a combo deck.
The issue is the players who can't think for themselves on how to go about playing against specific decks. Once their style of play is stifled by a different play style, all they know how to do is complain. Don't want to play the counter against a specific deck or tech against it or learn the matchup and just improve as a player overall? Just leave the game because it's people like that who kill diversity.
Upvoted, since you've spoken the truth of our life. And really, blizz nerf cubelock and there will be another cancer. Taunt druid is really powerful. Spiteful decks are already devouring the meta and paladin is really good right now. There will always be complaints about some decks in all metas.
Dark Pact is fine. Cubelock is fine. While the aggro player is trying to take down the lock player, the lock player is trying to survive till the end game. Win before the endgame as aggro or survive till the endgame and combo out. Both types of decks are capable of winning against the other. Healing and board control are core components in combo/control decks. Cubelock is mainly a combo deck.
The issue is the players who can't think for themselves on how to go about playing against specific decks. Once their style of play is stifled by a different play style, all they know how to do is complain. Don't want to play the counter against a specific deck or tech against it or learn the matchup and just improve as a player overall? Just leave the game because it's people like that who kill diversity.
Found the Cubelock only player.
FYI I have had everyTier1 and Tier2 deck going back the past year and half of Hearthstone when I started. I play every class, all sorts of decks, depending on meta, and the matchups I'm facing most frequently.
You want to talk about diversity? The diversity of Cubelock which can heal, taunt, charge, combo all in one deck.
Hmm yea learn to "play against it or be a better player". I play against it, I play with it, as I said I have every deck you can think of in Standard. I'm not worried about how good people are playing with or against cube, I'm not too worried at all.
But I think Dark Pact allowing a lot of reward for no investment, needs to be discussed.
There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.
Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.
Maybe nerf the weapon as well then? It costs 5 mana too and you can powerful demons early the same way you do it with the lackey. Again, if you are really into fighting against warlocks, you just have oozes, harrisons and two spellbreakers and that is how you beat warlock as aggro or control.
Probably the nerf to lackey feels like it is the easiest way to make a cut, but the weapon essentially does the same thing and is more consistent since you know what demons you pull out. How would you nerf the lackey? 2-2 at 6-7 cost? Or recruit not a demon but a ... creature?
You can have only one weapon in deck and as i saw in last 20 games vs cubelock they played it on curve only 6 times... I tried that stupod deck myself and guess what? Almost never had a weapon on turn 5...but i had one lackey and another one in deck..you nerf lackey and only option is weapon.. then all decks would run ooze and again cubelock would never exist again. Problem solved..
People calling nerfs to Doomguard is insane. The card is perfect as it is, and is essential to other Warlock Archetypes like Zoolock, Discolock or Demonlock.
Is has a balanced drawback because of it's overall Power in 5 attack-charge demon type.
Craziness to nerf Doomguard.
Sorry, but that's totally BS. Doomguard ALWAYS MAKE AND MADE PROBLEMS and it will do ALWAYS MAKE PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE. And that doomguard is part in around 100% of all decks make the problems.
That said: DOOMGUARD should NOT BE DESTROYED. But it needs changes:
My suggestion is: Doomguard 5 Mana 5/7 Rush Battlecry: Discard 2 random cards, gain Charge
This would NOT change Doomguard in any decks that plays it: you play doomguard from your hand, your doomguard have Charge. But if you special summon him, he don't have Charge, instead he has Rush.
That's actually no issue, since Rush and Charge does work together on a card, a card that has both of it is able to go face. Zoolock would for example not be nerfed at all, since you have the drawbacks (or not if your hand is empty, but the battlecry still worked), but for this you also have charge.
But when you get it from Carnivous Cube or DK, then you can only attack other minions with him.
Doomguard NEEDS a nerf, and in the future there will be other mechanics that might special summon him and it makes problems again. With this cubelock will be still quite strong, but you can't burst your enemy down anymore.
There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.
Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.
Maybe nerf the weapon as well then? It costs 5 mana too and you can powerful demons early the same way you do it with the lackey. Again, if you are really into fighting against warlocks, you just have oozes, harrisons and two spellbreakers and that is how you beat warlock as aggro or control.
Probably the nerf to lackey feels like it is the easiest way to make a cut, but the weapon essentially does the same thing and is more consistent since you know what demons you pull out. How would you nerf the lackey? 2-2 at 6-7 cost? Or recruit not a demon but a ... creature?
Possessed Lackey does not need a nerf. It's a risky 2/2 body for 5 mana, that can be silenced and produce 0 value.
Skull of the Man'ari does not need a nerf. It's 5 mana, can't attack, and can be destroyed the very next turn it's played.
Dark Pact is the ONLY card in the combo that has high-reward-no-investment/drawback. There lies our problem.
Like I said before I understand the aspect of heal and getting a demon out, but then warlock has little heal against aggro until at least the next expansion. Dark possession will just replace dark pact, so I am not sure how you want to nerf it.
by that logic lets nerf taunt druid because it gains too much armor and taunts that you cannot pass even if you are playing cubelock. But why stop there, let's also nerf Shudderwock because 1 in 5 matches you will get the combo and not loose to aggro. But wait there is more let's nerf warrior to not be able to armor above 20 armor because that would be unfair given their removal arsenal. Every expansion people whine about cards non-stop, whaa i was winning and yogg won him the game (got nerfed still got played and won games he shouldn't have) wahhh mage has ice block and ican't beat her with my aggro decks, waaahh warlock has a weapon and cube and healing. I know this will seem strange to you to process but warlock hero power and most of its spells including some minions damage himself, he needs healing. if you play vs aggro most time yo ucan't even hellfire because you go too low and you want to nerf all the cards because warlock can finally pull off a combo. good for you lets nerf every card that will affect your play style so that you don't have to adapt and grow as a player.
P.S none of the streamers or pro players are saying this card needs nerf but hey lets nerf it because fuck it we want to win a lot more by going face and silencing taunts. seems legit bro
You done conversing with yourself?
I haven't said nerf anything, if you actually took the time to read, there is nothing that says "nerf this or that". I actually say the opposite several times in the thread with a few other cards.
I made a case about the card, asked the community what they thought.
Dark pact should be changed to "Silence a friendly minion, then destroy it. Restore 8 health to your hero"
Still good health gain, but no more lackey/cube tricks.
I feel like this wouldn't solve the issue though, unfortunately. They would just run Sanguine Reveler as well, now they have the 1-mana destroy for the combo, plus Dark Pact for the heal. It would force them to run another card which is a downside and all of the benefit isn't in just 1 card, but changing the mana cost is not great either because I normally LOVE hitting it with Skulking Geist. I think the main way would be to make it discard a card or 2 on top of the current effect. Imagine them doing this combo and getting the heal 8 plus Voidlord, but they discard their Bloodreaver Gul'dan
Possessed Lackey does not need a nerf. It's a risky 2/2 body for 5 mana, that can be silenced and produce 0 value.
Skull of the Man'ari does not need a nerf. It's 5 mana, can't attack, and can be destroyed the very next turn it's played.
Dark Pact is the ONLY card in the combo that has high-reward-no-investment/drawback. There lies our problem.
"No investment"? You missed the part where it requires you to DESTROY YOUR MINION. That's a drawback no matter how you try to frame it. That it has particular combo potential with a VERY SPECIFIC card should tell you which of those two pose an issue. Lackey itself creates the issue of getting the actual combo pieces out, NOT pact.
Skull is fine, since it has easy counterplay, is only one copy and is very slow.
Possessed Lackey does not need a nerf. It's a risky 2/2 body for 5 mana, that can be silenced and produce 0 value.
Skull of the Man'ari does not need a nerf. It's 5 mana, can't attack, and can be destroyed the very next turn it's played.
Dark Pact is the ONLY card in the combo that has high-reward-no-investment/drawback. There lies our problem.
"No investment"? You missed the part where it requires you to DESTROY YOUR MINION. That's a drawback no matter how you try to frame it. That it has particular combo potential with a VERY SPECIFIC card should tell you which of those two pose an issue. Lackey itself creates the issue of getting the actual combo pieces out, NOT pact.
Skull is fine, since it has easy counterplay, is only one copy and is very slow.
LOL. The destroying the minion is the biggest benefit. The health is a bonus.
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id like to see dark pact be put to 2 mana, or lackey be put to 6. turn 5 void lords/doomguards is too powerful tbh, and atleast you can stop the weapon
Since team 5 were saying how they were watching the deck to see if it was too powerful my take on this is that 1 of 3 things should be changed, either dark pact costs 2 mana(as i see it that would be the most proficient thing to do), cube costs 1 more so you can't cube into faceless on the same turn, or the one i think would have the less impact make lackey cost more, tho that would only really stall the demon 1 more turn
Garrosh did nothing wrong.
Silver Hand Recruit
Dark Pact is fine. Cubelock is fine. While the aggro player is trying to take down the lock player, the lock player is trying to survive till the end game. Win before the endgame as aggro or survive till the endgame and combo out. Both types of decks are capable of winning against the other. Healing and board control are core components in combo/control decks. Cubelock is mainly a combo deck.
The issue is the players who can't think for themselves on how to go about playing against specific decks. Once their style of play is stifled by a different play style, all they know how to do is complain. Don't want to play the counter against a specific deck or tech against it or learn the matchup and just improve as a player overall? Just leave the game because it's people like that who kill diversity.
And that would be fine, since they wouldn't have the stabilizing power of 8 health
Did you ask yourself why did they nerf raza and not anduin DK???? Dk can be used in multiple archetypes of decks and raza only in one and that one was the problem!!!!! Doomguard can be used in every warlock deck but he is the op only in cubelock....and guess what card is used only in cubelock as core card??? Lackey thats right...
Lackey as raza and doomguard as anduin dk... Hope you will understand why doomguard dont need nerf... You nerf card or one deck not entire class...
Dark Possession gives 0 health, and does not work on Carnivorous Cube
Sanguine Reveler does nto heal either, and provides terrible value (even if the tempo is fine
Ratcatcher is too slow to enable the current combos, or would at least be far less reliable
Nerfing Dark Pact to "silence then destroy" only affects Cubelock, and I think nerfing Cubeloc would indeed be a very good thing, especially for midrange decks.
FYI I have had every Tier1 and Tier2 deck going back the past year and half of Hearthstone when I started. I play every class, all sorts of decks, depending on meta, and the matchups I'm facing most frequently.
You want to talk about diversity? The diversity of Cubelock which can heal, taunt, charge, combo all in one deck.
Hmm yea learn to "play against it or be a better player". I play against it, I play with it, as I said I have every deck you can think of in Standard. I'm not worried about how good people are playing with or against cube, I'm not too worried at all.
But I think Dark Pact allowing a lot of reward for no investment, needs to be discussed.
"Do you smell something...burning?
Doomguard
5 Mana 5/7
Rush
Battlecry: Discard 2 random cards, gain Charge
Skull of the Man'ari does not need a nerf. It's 5 mana, can't attack, and can be destroyed the very next turn it's played.
Dark Pact is the ONLY card in the combo that has high-reward-no-investment/drawback. There lies our problem.
"Do you smell something...burning?
Like I said before I understand the aspect of heal and getting a demon out, but then warlock has little heal against aggro until at least the next expansion. Dark possession will just replace dark pact, so I am not sure how you want to nerf it.
I am sorry if I missed your way to nerf it.
I haven't said nerf anything, if you actually took the time to read, there is nothing that says "nerf this or that". I actually say the opposite several times in the thread with a few other cards.
I made a case about the card, asked the community what they thought.
You're ignorance is definitely showing.
"Do you smell something...burning?
-It's better to have something you don't need, than to need something you don't have
In other news, 30% of this thread plays warlock. Dark pact has been totally broken since it was first released.