Hearthpwn

id like to see dark pact be put to 2 mana, or lackey be put to 6. turn 5 void lords/doomguards is too powerful tbh, and atleast you can stop the weapon

Since team 5 were saying how they were watching the deck to see if it was too powerful my take on this is that 1 of 3 things should be changed, either dark pact costs 2 mana(as i see it that would be the most proficient thing to do), cube costs 1 more so you can't cube into faceless on the same turn, or the one i think would have the less impact make lackey cost more, tho that would only really stall the demon 1 more turn

Quote from Northwind77 >>

 

Quote from rasmusm20 >>

Dark pact is fine. You sacrifice a minen, which is huge tempo loss, in normal circumstances. The problem (if there is any) is the cube, witch is pretty high value

 I don't think you even read the opening post? 

I explained the way it's being used is too much of a reward for tiny investment.

Look at Conceal and Ice Lance. The same people saying Dark Pact is fine, were saying those two cards were fine.. They ended up getting banned from standard because they allowed their classes too much potential to win the game in certain situations (like dark pact healing away from lethal, giving you a large minion that combos into something else which invests into bloodreaver guldan .......)

 

Quote from Zukuu >>

There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.

Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.

Dark Pact is fine. Cubelock is fine. While the aggro player is trying to take down the lock player, the lock player is trying to survive till the end game. Win before the endgame as aggro or survive till the endgame and combo out. Both types of decks are capable of winning against the other. Healing and board control are core components in combo/control decks. Cubelock is mainly a combo deck. 

The issue is the players who can't think for themselves on how to go about playing against specific decks. Once their style of play is stifled by a different play style, all they know how to do is complain. Don't want to play the counter against a specific deck or tech against it or learn the matchup and just improve as a player overall? Just leave the game because it's people like that who kill diversity.

And that would be fine, since they wouldn't have the stabilizing power of 8 health

Quote from Aspect >>

They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.

Did you ask yourself why did they nerf raza and not anduin DK???? Dk can be used in multiple archetypes of decks and raza only in one and that one was the problem!!!!! Doomguard can be used in every warlock deck but he is the op only in cubelock....and guess what card is used only in cubelock as core card??? Lackey thats right... 

Lackey as raza and doomguard as anduin dk... Hope you will understand why doomguard dont need nerf... You nerf card or one deck not entire class...

Quote from 1HuntAlone >>

And that would be fine, since they wouldn't have the stabilizing power of 8 health

Quote from Aspect >>

They printed a new 1 cost card Dark possession, so if dark pact is to be nerfed, some may run Dark possession instead; it just won't give 8 health right away.

 

 

Dark Possession gives 0 health, and does not work on Carnivorous Cube

Sanguine Reveler does nto heal either, and provides terrible value (even if the tempo is fine

Ratcatcher is too slow to enable the current combos, or would at least be far less reliable

Nerfing Dark Pact to "silence then destroy" only affects Cubelock, and I think nerfing Cubeloc would indeed be a very good thing, especially for midrange decks.

Quote from jiggs >>

Dark Pact is fine. Cubelock is fine. While the aggro player is trying to take down the lock player, the lock player is trying to survive till the end game. Win before the endgame as aggro or survive till the endgame and combo out. Both types of decks are capable of winning against the other. Healing and board control are core components in combo/control decks. Cubelock is mainly a combo deck. 

The issue is the players who can't think for themselves on how to go about playing against specific decks. Once their style of play is stifled by a different play style, all they know how to do is complain. Don't want to play the counter against a specific deck or tech against it or learn the matchup and just improve as a player overall? Just leave the game because it's people like that who kill diversity.

Quote from jiggs >>

Dark Pact is fine. Cubelock is fine. While the aggro player is trying to take down the lock player, the lock player is trying to survive till the end game. Win before the endgame as aggro or survive till the endgame and combo out. Both types of decks are capable of winning against the other. Healing and board control are core components in combo/control decks. Cubelock is mainly a combo deck. 

The issue is the players who can't think for themselves on how to go about playing against specific decks. Once their style of play is stifled by a different play style, all they know how to do is complain. Don't want to play the counter against a specific deck or tech against it or learn the matchup and just improve as a player overall? Just leave the game because it's people like that who kill diversity.

Quote from Aspect >>

 

Quote from Zukuu >>

There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.

Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.

 

 Maybe nerf the weapon as well then? It costs 5 mana too and you can powerful demons early the same way you do it with the lackey. Again, if you are really into fighting against warlocks, you just have oozes, harrisons and two spellbreakers and that is how you beat warlock as aggro or control.

 

Probably the nerf to lackey feels like it is the easiest way to make a cut, but the weapon essentially does the same thing and is more consistent since you know what demons you pull out. How would you nerf the lackey? 2-2 at 6-7 cost? Or recruit not a demon but a ... creature?

Quote from Northwind77 >>

People calling nerfs to Doomguard is insane. The card is perfect as it is, and is essential to other Warlock Archetypes like Zoolock, Discolock or Demonlock. 

Is has a balanced drawback because of it's overall Power in 5 attack-charge demon type.

Craziness to nerf Doomguard.

Quote from Aspect >>

 

Quote from Zukuu >>

There is nothing wrong with Dark Pact. In fact, it's actually underbudgeted. You gain a measly 1 mana advantage of a dedicated "Restore 8 health to your hero", which is worth less than 2 mana, for killing your own minion.

Possessed Lackey is the only issue whatsoever and I'm amazed how everyone keeps saying something else, like Dark Pact, Doomguard, Voidlord or Cube. It's just crystal clear.

 

 Maybe nerf the weapon as well then? It costs 5 mana too and you can powerful demons early the same way you do it with the lackey. Again, if you are really into fighting against warlocks, you just have oozes, harrisons and two spellbreakers and that is how you beat warlock as aggro or control.

 

Probably the nerf to lackey feels like it is the easiest way to make a cut, but the weapon essentially does the same thing and is more consistent since you know what demons you pull out. How would you nerf the lackey? 2-2 at 6-7 cost? Or recruit not a demon but a ... creature?

Like I said before I understand the aspect of heal and getting a demon out, but then warlock has little heal against aggro until at least the next expansion. Dark possession will just replace dark pact, so I am not sure how you want to nerf it.

I am sorry if I missed your way to nerf it.

Quote from mario_deadman >>

bro your ignorance is showing. 

by that logic lets nerf taunt druid because it gains too much armor and taunts that you cannot pass even if you are playing cubelock. But why stop there,  let's also nerf Shudderwock because 1 in 5 matches you will get the combo and not loose to aggro. But wait there is more let's nerf warrior to not be able to armor above 20 armor because that would be unfair given their removal arsenal. Every expansion people whine about cards non-stop, whaa i was winning and yogg won him the game (got nerfed still got played and won games he shouldn't have) wahhh mage has ice block and  ican't beat her with my aggro decks, waaahh warlock has a weapon and cube and healing. I know this will seem strange to you to process but warlock hero power and most of its spells including some minions damage himself, he needs healing. if you play vs aggro most time yo ucan't even hellfire because you go too low and you want to nerf all the cards because warlock can finally pull off a combo. good for you lets nerf every card that will affect your play style so that you don't have to adapt and grow as a player.

P.S none of the streamers or pro players are saying this card needs nerf but hey lets nerf it because fuck it we want to win a lot more by going face and silencing taunts. seems legit bro

Quote from AssumedNewb >>

I would add another option.

Dark pact should be changed to "Silence a friendly minion, then destroy it. Restore 8 health to your hero"

Still good health gain, but no more lackey/cube tricks.

 

 

In other news, 30% of this thread plays warlock. Dark pact has been totally broken since it was first released.

Quote from Zukuu >>

 

Quote from Northwind77 >>

 

 

Possessed Lackey  does not need a nerf. It's a risky 2/2 body for 5 mana, that can be silenced and produce 0 value.

Skull of the Man'ari  does not need a nerf. It's 5 mana, can't attack, and can be destroyed the very next turn it's played.

Dark Pact is the ONLY card in the combo that has high-reward-no-investment/drawback. There lies our problem.

"No investment"? You missed the part where it requires you to DESTROY YOUR MINION. That's a drawback no matter how you try to frame it. That it has particular combo potential with a VERY SPECIFIC card should tell you which of those two pose an issue. Lackey itself creates the issue of getting the actual combo pieces out, NOT pact.

Skull is fine, since it has easy counterplay, is only one copy and is very slow.