This card is an Ironbark Protector that will most likely only draw you ONE deathknight card before being removed. So, considering that Ironbark isn't really played at all, we have to evaluate this card based on the DK cards. So, my opinion, from worst to best:
8) Doom Pact - Just awful... and the more you'd want to use this card (on a full board), the worse it is for you. Also, if you are playing the Lich King, you are probably playing a control deck, and the last thing you want to do is discard your deck.
7) Army of the Dead - Again, kinda bad. It's kinda like a Varian Wrynn effect, except you don't get to keep the non-minions that you draw. Once again, in a control deck, the last thing you want to do is discard your cards. Also, just summoning your minions means that you could be denied value from their battlecries.
6) Obliterate - Decent removal card, and a heal-heavy control deck could spare the health for it. But, similar to Doom Pact, the more value you get out of this card, the more of a downside you suffer.
5) Frostmourne - Pretty cool weapon. A little slow to get the effect, though.
4) Death Grip - I already hate this card. Blizzard is getting pretty ballsy with the opponent hand/deck manipulation in this expansion. This card in particular is about as bullshit as it gets. At least it's not a discover card.
1) Anti-Magic Shell - Minion buff AND can't be targeted? This effect is pretty crazy, even if you only hit 1 high-priority target with it.
All in all, I'd say that the cards you get from the LK are about the same power level as the Ysera dream cards. There are some hits and misses, and you'll probably be finding yourself in positions where you are praying for that ONE card that will just win you the game, and anything else will mean a loss.
I think the card is over-rated. The body isn't spectacular and the DK cards are mostly just "meh". Will be a good pull from Stonehill Defender, but I can think of a few other cards in the 8+ mana slot that would probably get you more value.
I really want this card to be good... I reaaaaally do. But it's not so fantastic: don't get me wrong an Ironbark which gives you some value card is quite a good card, but as it was pointed out this is a 8/8 body and not a 4/12, and that comes with its set of disadvantages... It is overall much easier to remove (either by trading or hard removal) and you can't even hide it behind a taunt. Point being - while he does bring huge amounts of potential value, the Lich King isn't as sticky as Ysera; now naturally, one Death Knight card can be a game changer, but it also can be one of the lesser choices available; 8 cards makes LK more unreliable than versatile...
Kind of a whimsicle card, and I do not know if it will be seeing some much play as a consequence, aside from the eventual wallet control deck which can afford many big expendable minions. I still struggle to imagine the impact some of these DK cards may have on the board.
Oh man I couldn't disagree more. Also you are thinking of him like Ysera. He is only marginally like ysera. You plop him down to protect your face and to get at least one good swingy card, he is meant to be a stall mechanic. ysera is meant to be a value mechanic. She is in a worse mana spot and doesn't actually do anything the turn you play her to keep you alive which actually makes her far more difficult to play. Not that she is worse, not by a long shot. Just that the board states at which you can play them are different. Lich King is more robust in that playing him on an empty board and forcing them to have removal is just as good as placing him into harms way, Ysera you have to play into a board state where you are pretty certain you won't die or loose the board too much. Meanwhile she is harder to remove than Arthas. He isn't worse, not at all, he's cheaper and protects your face and will generally give you a card that is pretty swingy and will hopefully help you take the board state back after they take a turn to kill him.
Do you mean you rate him as playable and not meta defining or he is meta defning but he still isn't as good as people think. Personally I think the latter. I think he is meta defining but not some god card people think him to be.
I think he is good, but not as good as people think. I rated it as playable. Its a slightly worse ysera that costs less than ysera herself.
Death knight cards are slightly worse than dream cards and there is the possibility of a "dead draw" between the DK cards (you cant "dead draw" on dream cards), also the stats distribution is far worse, but then its an 8-mana card which makes it a lot more playable than ysera because she costs 9 mana. Overall its playable, but only a few decks will want it and those decks have other "finishers" to choose from so they don't necessarily need to run this card (I'd rather play the class DK Hero Cards on most classes as the value is guaranteed)
Edit: Another thing to note is that for some reason people end up always thinking grindy "clunky" control decks will be the next thing on the meta and it usually never is, I cant help but think everyone is overlooking the big aggro tools added this expansion yet again.
Thinking about a way I'd want to play The Lich King, I came up with the likelihood of wanting to play him together with YShaarj and Barnes, so maybe this is a cool place to start(If Fighting too much aggro, swap Glimeroot for Tar creeper):
You can absolutely dead draw on dream cards. I dunno I have to disagree. In general the Deathknight cards are more swingy. I think he is just as good as ysera. Better even.
On the note of aggro still being really good. I have a tendency to agree. I have a hope that lifesteal will assist control in getting to turns where they can start to stabilize, but I dunno.
All that say Just "ysera 2.0" or shit like this are idiots or At least have no game knowledge. They Just see only the "add a card" Effect and the taunt... did you guy Even tryed to think WHY actually ysera is strong? It is a DRAGON card, so it has all dragons sinergy. Can be added by the curator, or created by the 2 mana minIon, so it has the "searcheable" value. Ysera gives Weaker cards? It gives higher value cards if we think about the mana They requires. Plus Less pool choice Dreams cards=more chance we get the card we need, if i face a full board, i have more chance to Clear it with ysera's 2 mana spell insted the aoe lich King provides. Lich have better stats? Ahahahah fucking noobs, this are value cards, the longher They are in the Field, the better it is, so 4-12>8-8, plus this stats avoids for excemple priest removal, Less chance a shield slam destroy it and so on. I could continue the whole fucking day, But the Point is that lich has only 2 better things compare to ysera: mana cost and taunt add. And despite taunt could be usefull vs an aggro deck (wait, you play it turn 8 if you're lucky... plus this probably will be a more control-oriented meta.... loool), it could be a pain in the ass if you want to potect lich from your opponent's minions. PEOPLE THINK BEFORE WRITE, USE THE BRAIN.
8 mana >>>> 9 mana . with 2 mana left you can for example use rag hero power .
8 mana 8 8 taunt >>>> 9 mana 4 12 vs aggro .
taunt tag >> dragon tag in quest warrior + can be discovered by defender .
But I do agree that in a strictly control meta Y sera and her dream cards are probably more valuable .
Wasn't the whole reason they rotated Ragnaros because it saw universal play and pushed out other 8 drops from consideration?
Not that I'm expecting any consistency.
Rag is quite a bit better than this card since you can run it in tempo and midrange decks. You'd never run this card in a tempo deck, as such it will see play in a lower percentage. Of course it's still a pretty good neutral that is much better than other 8 mana legends I'd say.
If you Blade Flurry while Frostmourne is equipped..... ??????
Techincally I believe the spell is doing the damage and therefor is what actually kills the minions. However it's not a bad way to deal 5 to everything and bring back whatever you actually killed with it previously. I honestly wonder if bladeflurry may come back as the new rogue cards are so weapon centric.
Frostmourne looks somewhat promising. A neutral, powerful weapon is nice. You better have a lot of life, though. You're unlikely to play this before turn 9 and yet it's big enough to take up pretty much the entire turn.
Army of the dead looks pretty good as long as you play a minion heavy deck that is mid-range or larger and you're not worried about going into fatigue. Kind of a narrow subset of all decks, but reasonable.
Doom pact is the real deal. Upgrade to Twisting Nether. Against other control decks, you remove few cards from your deck, so you shouldn't fatigue too badly. Against aggro, those burned cards might as well have been the bottom of your deck for all the good they do you.
Deathgrip: 2 mana draw a minion. Catch is: it's something from your opponent's deck. A bit overcosted, but not bad at all. I suppose the fact that your opponent no longer can draw that card is useful if you're going into fatigue or they've managed to draw all of their cards except a combo piece. But what are the odds that this will come up?
Death Coil: probably the best card among these 8 options. Half the cost of fireball, one less damage, but has the ability to heal if you really need to. This should've cost 4.
Obliterate. Kissing cousin to corruption only instead of worrying about the attack, you worry about the health. Also, you care less about the minion's abilities. Probably fair for anyone but Gul'Dan.
Anti-Magic Shell: Err, what? All of the other cards are control cards. This is a late-game aggro card. From a control card.
Hurray! Death and Decay is literally a better version of Hellfire. One mana less and only affects the enemy.
Even if all of these cards were only fair, though, I think it would be worth playing this guy. Ironbark Protector without the risk of a 2-for-1 is pretty nice. Every control and midrange deck in standard (except maybe Control Mage) would love to add this. I suspect even Jade Druid would be willing to consider it.
Uhh Bummer, would've been cool though.. That's probably also the case for the new card 'Doomerang' , I also think the deathrattle won't trigger since you're just returning the weapon to your hand and not destroying it.
The real question to see if it is playable is asking yourself is it better than Ysera. Before the BGH nerf the answer to that would have been a categoric no. Currently however the question is much more difficult. 8/8 taunt is obviously better at preventing small minions from going face and it trades better against medium minions anything 5 attack or more. the fact this is an 8 drop rather than a 9 drop is a rather large distinction. However I would also say that the spells/minions that you can get of Ysera are in my eyes better more of the time than the deathknight cards, frostmorne being a rather large exception, along with the dragon tag being significant, and 4/12 trading better against anything with less than 5 health. I think the question can be asked about which is better on a case by case basis but I do not believe that the lich king is just straight up better. This is a question of which fits your deck better. They are fairly comparable I personally still prefer Ysera as it is very unlikely to give you a card that you cannot play see 'army of the dead' or any of the self mill cards when you are nearing fatigue. Both have thier place and both are strong powerful tools. I think lich king is rather well balanced in my eyes.
No matter how you look at it. it is not a meta defining card but very powerful card indeed it is good as much as Ragnaros and Sylvanas.
By the way there is no shortage to deal with high stat minions so Black Knight will not really comeback
I dunno, I see meta defining here.
I see inconsistent af and asking everything to slam into it.
You can remove this way easier than you want to think, and the cardpool is too giant with too much varience for you to actually want to use it. This isn't any kind of finisher at all and I think the only way you'll ever see this card in a couple of months is because it's only value comes from stonehilling it rather than wasting a card slot on it.
No matter how you look at it. it is not a meta defining card but very powerful card indeed it is good as much as Ragnaros and Sylvanas.
By the way there is no shortage to deal with high stat minions so Black Knight will not really comeback
I dunno, I see meta defining here.
I see inconsistent af and asking everything to slam into it.
You can remove this way easier than you want to think, and the cardpool is too giant with too much varience for you to actually want to use it. This isn't any kind of finisher at all and I think the only way you'll ever see this card in a couple of months is because it's only value comes from stonehilling it rather than wasting a card slot on it.
I agree with you, man.
This is a fun card, and can get some awesome value if it sticks around for more than 1 turn... but more often than not, it's going to draw you a single DK card, and then eat a hard removal.
And the DK cards aren't great: 2 of them will fatigue you straight to hell, and 2 others force you to sacrifice a huge amount of health to see value out of them. The only good ones are the 3 damage AoE, the 2 mana 5 damage, and the buff/can't be targeted card.
I think that it is on the same power-level as Ysera, but I think that Ysera is better with 4/12 stats and dragon synergy. Also, I think the dream cards are a little better overall.
People are hyped because it's an iconic character, and it's a unique effect, but this is in no way "Dr 8", or the new Rag, or anything like that. I think that a lot of people will craft it on day 1, and it will see a lot of play in the first few weeks... but then the meta will stabilize, and decks will start to become refined, and the LK will find itself on the chopping block in most cases.
No matter how you look at it. it is not a meta defining card but very powerful card indeed it is good as much as Ragnaros and Sylvanas.
By the way there is no shortage to deal with high stat minions so Black Knight will not really comeback
I dunno, I see meta defining here.
I see inconsistent af and asking everything to slam into it.
You can remove this way easier than you want to think, and the cardpool is too giant with too much varience for you to actually want to use it. This isn't any kind of finisher at all and I think the only way you'll ever see this card in a couple of months is because it's only value comes from stonehilling it rather than wasting a card slot on it.
I am not going to try and protect this though. It's NOT ysera. I will play him because I want people to slam shit into it. I think if people keep looking to play it the same way you play Ysera then yeah, not a great card. It's NOT a finisher, it's stall card that gives you stall/clear options for the next turn. If he sticks around I won't be sad, if he doesn't then he served his purpose.
People voting meta-defining for the card being the The Lich King...HYPE!
It is playable for sure but I feel like this is the one card that would benefit more if it didn't have taunt. I personally use The Black Knight in many decks(control mostly) and according to the lore The Black Knight is supposed to be an underling to Arthas. What kind of an underling gets to obliterate his "master" so easily?
Also some care is to be given in Arena,..if Paladin has The Lich King as one more great choice to choose from Stonehill Defender then it is to be expected that he will stomp over the rest of the heroes. Paladin is already in a great spot both in Arena and constructed.
For me, it is boring to be seeing nothing but Mage after 7 wins. I don't see why Mage should be replaced by Paladin(not implying that I like things the way they are right now). It would be nice to see a bit more variety in high wins.
This card is an Ironbark Protector that will most likely only draw you ONE deathknight card before being removed. So, considering that Ironbark isn't really played at all, we have to evaluate this card based on the DK cards. So, my opinion, from worst to best:
8) Doom Pact - Just awful... and the more you'd want to use this card (on a full board), the worse it is for you. Also, if you are playing the Lich King, you are probably playing a control deck, and the last thing you want to do is discard your deck.
7) Army of the Dead - Again, kinda bad. It's kinda like a Varian Wrynn effect, except you don't get to keep the non-minions that you draw. Once again, in a control deck, the last thing you want to do is discard your cards. Also, just summoning your minions means that you could be denied value from their battlecries.
6) Obliterate - Decent removal card, and a heal-heavy control deck could spare the health for it. But, similar to Doom Pact, the more value you get out of this card, the more of a downside you suffer.
5) Frostmourne - Pretty cool weapon. A little slow to get the effect, though.
4) Death Grip - I already hate this card. Blizzard is getting pretty ballsy with the opponent hand/deck manipulation in this expansion. This card in particular is about as bullshit as it gets. At least it's not a discover card.
3) Death and Decay - Solid undercosted AoE.
2) Death Coil - Solid undercosted removal spell... slightly worse Flash Heal, though.
1) Anti-Magic Shell - Minion buff AND can't be targeted? This effect is pretty crazy, even if you only hit 1 high-priority target with it.
All in all, I'd say that the cards you get from the LK are about the same power level as the Ysera dream cards. There are some hits and misses, and you'll probably be finding yourself in positions where you are praying for that ONE card that will just win you the game, and anything else will mean a loss.
I think the card is over-rated. The body isn't spectacular and the DK cards are mostly just "meh". Will be a good pull from Stonehill Defender, but I can think of a few other cards in the 8+ mana slot that would probably get you more value.
I feel like the taunt is counter productive to his effect. I'd have preferred if he was a 6/10 without the taunt.
Still a great card though, I suspect in standard he'll take the place Ragnaros had in midrange/control decks.
Wasn't the whole reason they rotated Ragnaros because it saw universal play and pushed out other 8 drops from consideration?
Not that I'm expecting any consistency.
If you Blade Flurry while Frostmourne is equipped..... ??????
Pretty OP
The Lich King is the new Ysera lol
Frostmourne looks somewhat promising. A neutral, powerful weapon is nice. You better have a lot of life, though. You're unlikely to play this before turn 9 and yet it's big enough to take up pretty much the entire turn.
Army of the dead looks pretty good as long as you play a minion heavy deck that is mid-range or larger and you're not worried about going into fatigue. Kind of a narrow subset of all decks, but reasonable.
Doom pact is the real deal. Upgrade to Twisting Nether. Against other control decks, you remove few cards from your deck, so you shouldn't fatigue too badly. Against aggro, those burned cards might as well have been the bottom of your deck for all the good they do you.
Deathgrip: 2 mana draw a minion. Catch is: it's something from your opponent's deck. A bit overcosted, but not bad at all. I suppose the fact that your opponent no longer can draw that card is useful if you're going into fatigue or they've managed to draw all of their cards except a combo piece. But what are the odds that this will come up?
Death Coil: probably the best card among these 8 options. Half the cost of fireball, one less damage, but has the ability to heal if you really need to. This should've cost 4.
Obliterate. Kissing cousin to corruption only instead of worrying about the attack, you worry about the health. Also, you care less about the minion's abilities. Probably fair for anyone but Gul'Dan.
Anti-Magic Shell: Err, what? All of the other cards are control cards. This is a late-game aggro card. From a control card.
Hurray! Death and Decay is literally a better version of Hellfire. One mana less and only affects the enemy.
Even if all of these cards were only fair, though, I think it would be worth playing this guy. Ironbark Protector without the risk of a 2-for-1 is pretty nice. Every control and midrange deck in standard (except maybe Control Mage) would love to add this. I suspect even Jade Druid would be willing to consider it.
Uhh Bummer, would've been cool though.. That's probably also the case for the new card 'Doomerang' , I also think the deathrattle won't trigger since you're just returning the weapon to your hand and not destroying it.
Eight King here we come.
No matter how you look at it. it is not a meta defining card but very powerful card indeed it is good as much as Ragnaros and Sylvanas.
By the way there is no shortage to deal with high stat minions so Black Knight will not really comeback
The real question to see if it is playable is asking yourself is it better than Ysera. Before the BGH nerf the answer to that would have been a categoric no. Currently however the question is much more difficult. 8/8 taunt is obviously better at preventing small minions from going face and it trades better against medium minions anything 5 attack or more. the fact this is an 8 drop rather than a 9 drop is a rather large distinction. However I would also say that the spells/minions that you can get of Ysera are in my eyes better more of the time than the deathknight cards, frostmorne being a rather large exception, along with the dragon tag being significant, and 4/12 trading better against anything with less than 5 health. I think the question can be asked about which is better on a case by case basis but I do not believe that the lich king is just straight up better. This is a question of which fits your deck better. They are fairly comparable I personally still prefer Ysera as it is very unlikely to give you a card that you cannot play see 'army of the dead' or any of the self mill cards when you are nearing fatigue. Both have thier place and both are strong powerful tools. I think lich king is rather well balanced in my eyes.
People voting meta-defining for the card being the The Lich King...HYPE!
It is playable for sure but I feel like this is the one card that would benefit more if it didn't have taunt. I personally use The Black Knight in many decks(control mostly) and according to the lore The Black Knight is supposed to be an underling to Arthas. What kind of an underling gets to obliterate his "master" so easily?
Also some care is to be given in Arena,..if Paladin has The Lich King as one more great choice to choose from Stonehill Defender then it is to be expected that he will stomp over the rest of the heroes. Paladin is already in a great spot both in Arena and constructed.
For me, it is boring to be seeing nothing but Mage after 7 wins. I don't see why Mage should be replaced by Paladin(not implying that I like things the way they are right now). It would be nice to see a bit more variety in high wins.
So you thought only Mage had an exodia combo eh