Upon closer thought, I am incredibly unhappy that they created and plan to release this card. The reason that I stopped playing magic was because wotc decided to focus on creatures and things on the battlefield. Personally I hate that. I do not like playing decks in magic or Hearthstone that play very many minions, I think that miinion trading is uninteresting, and that the real fun and mental challenge of the game comes from cards in your hand doing things, and paying close attention to your opponent, recognizing that they also have an agenda for the cards in their hand.
Loatheb is a very strong card which punishes spells. Yes it is only for 1 turn, but some decks will literally do nothing with that turn. And those are the decks that I like to play. It isn't just freeze mage, which can cut it in legend, but is by no means op, it's all of the control decks that can and would have been made which rely on spells instead of minions. Blizzard is making a decision about what they want games of Hearthstone to look like, and is making it clear that they don't want decks to just play spells, they want minion interaction.
I can understand a desire to make decks like freeze mage/miracle rogue more interactive, so it doesn't feel like the miracle player will either win next turn or not, and you have no clue which one it will be, but this is not a good way to do it.
With all that said, I will still wait to see what the meta looks like when this card is released before passing final judgement, it just feels like the game is being designed to discourage the kinds of decks that I, and I imagine many others, enjoy playing. The issue with these kinds of decks is the feel non-interactive, but that is an issue which could be addressed instead of releasing cards like Loatheb.
Its only for 1 turn. Yes its basically a Skip a Turn effect in cases like Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage. But thats it. 1 Turn is important, but by no means is it game breakingly OP.
Its only for 1 turn. Yes its basically a Skip a Turn effect in cases like Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage. But thats it. 1 Turn is important, but by no means is it game breakingly OP.
A 5/5 for 5 that says "Battlecry: Your opponent skips his/her next turn" is absolutely op. Granted it only says that against some decks, but that means that those decks will no longer exist. This card is really good, it will be in a lot of decks, and will make a lot of could-have-been-viable decks not playable
Very very good card. Probably going to get the same treatment as Sylvanas Windrunner when she costed 5 mana (where nearly every deck has Loatheb in it).
Punishes control decks (and spell heavy decks) more than aggro. Aggro is more minion heavy and thus is less affected by this card. However this card can seal the game like a perfectly timed blood imp can do due to control decks usually using spells to help counter aggro. If an aggro deck has an established board and plays this when his opponent has nearly nothing then it's probably GG at that point.
I think we will see a meta shift towards more aggro decks with anti-aggro tech. something like a zoo lock with hellfire and stuff.
Play this card on turn 8 (or even coin on turn 7 to protect against Polymorph) with a Duplicate, preferably on an empty board. If you are sure your opponent doesn't have anything like Hex, you can sit back and watch. Even if your opponent hexes or polymorphs it they just wasted their entire turn.
Agree with Adurin no more OP then killing off a taunt druid's Druid of the Claw with black knight, Its a temp swing. The major tempo swings can always win you a game but by no means is it Loatheb is played /End Miracle rogue or Freeze Mage.
Side note: Many people talk about how strong this is for aggro decks I'd like to think how strong this plays into shaman's weaknesses. The harder match ups Miracle and Freeze mage with proper timing its enough to give a victory.
This card to me seems very strong, any control deck is at a disadvantage when this is played against. This cards looks to be pushing the aggro meta more and i wouldn't be surprised to see this run in many decks on ladder. With the right timing it can completely destroy a players next turn.
it stops you from getting board wiped the following turn, so you gain 1 extra turn which is huge, your oponent can only play minions but if hes behind just waiting to brawl/flamestrike you down, well you just got ahead by a lot.
The best use of this card is stopping sweepers, but it is also good in the miracle matchup as well as in any control matchup, in the aggro matchup tho its just a 5/5 for 5 which is subpar.
Def a good legendary, I thought it to be "meh" after I saw it for the first time but it only took me a few seconds thinking to realize how good it was.
Yeah well decks that rely purely on spells won't be able to do so anymore. And its not like you have to auto skip your turn just because you don't want to waste your mana for 1 spell. There are minions you can play and such. Its strong, but its not broken which is the definition of O.P.
That's just an ignorant comment. The card is not broken. You can't use spells for 1 turn, very strong but not broken to say the least. Unlike Miracle where you can draw half your deck in 1 turn, the other half in the following turn and your opponent can't do much of anything about it.
if you look all the cards the are releasing are around the power level of the cards we had before they were nerfed. I think its effective way to get more longevity out of the cards, The new meta will be similar to our pre nerfed meta and as cards get nerfed into place we will see shifts in the meta rather than having cards perfectly balanced already and few meta changes till the next card pack release.
This seems designed to mess with Miracle, but it also gives aggro a huge and unneeded help against any kind of control. Lots of decks will want to brawl/holy nova/consecrate/hellfire/shadowflame/blizzard on turn 5/6, and this buys the zoo player another turn to hit the face.
This is also a legendary people....5/5 for 5 Mana is common/basic quality......So the battlecry better be pretty damn good to climb past rare/epic quality. Also situational. It's rather strong, but by no means is it overkill.
Its a legendary so only one in a deck, is it worth it? Typically will only see it in your hand in half of your matches, and even then he may just be a 5/5 for 5 mana with no effect on the game.
Only if the meta stays spell based, kinda like the The Black Knight used to be mandatory when handlock and druid taunts were popular on the ladder, just druid slipped and TBK fell out of favor. He's making a come back right now but once again handlock and druid taunts are rising. Comparing this to Sylvanas Windrunner I think is over reactionary. That card was outstanding as a 5/5 for 5 mana with a potentially greater than one turn effect, Loatheb is just a one turn effect card, good yes but if meta shifts away from heavy spells it falls out of decks.
It buys a turn vs. Miracle and Freeze Mage two of the most spell dominated decks in the game. That's it, if you can't capitalize on that gained turn he is little more than a 5/5 for 5 mana which is good but not outstanding and probably wouldn't warrant a slot in your deck.
We'll see how it shakes out but since it's legendary I expect its affect to be muted, once the meta shifts post Naxx.
This card will definitely shake up the meta and whether it's OP or not I'm not too worried about since EVERYTHING is about to change with 30 new cards about to drop.
What I'm really excited about is the indication that Blizz is designing cards with some enemy disruption in mind. Beyond a handful of secrets, the current meta tends to play out like "I try to play my combos before you do." Cards like this interrupt your normal play sequence and require some improvisation to play around. Hopefully more cards with similar mechanics are on the way.
Blizzard wants to change the meta. That´s it. You like it or dislike it but they don´t care.
PD: Miracle and all the actual tier 1 deck are going to die sooner or later just accept it.
Don't care. What I do care about is how restrictive the card is. I really have no interest in continuing to play if the game devolves into yeti-bumping. We were all worried about this when every single deck was the same tempo oriented strategy with the same cards (some time around frost giants nerf) and, now, we're heading right back to most boring, simplistic style of gameplay HS can offer.
Will reserve my comments until after I see how the card plays, I hope it doesn't give rise to an even more aggressive environment but that remains to be seen (until all cards are released and played). I think it's a great sign that we are seeing cards move in the direction of being able to have meaningful impact on spells/plans of your opponent during their turn. Right now you can make the assumption opponent is going to blast you into oblivion and there is nothing to do but but watch yourself die or maybe play a healer. There was nothing (except mostly crappy secrets) to disrupt your opponent's spells.
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Upon closer thought, I am incredibly unhappy that they created and plan to release this card. The reason that I stopped playing magic was because wotc decided to focus on creatures and things on the battlefield. Personally I hate that. I do not like playing decks in magic or Hearthstone that play very many minions, I think that miinion trading is uninteresting, and that the real fun and mental challenge of the game comes from cards in your hand doing things, and paying close attention to your opponent, recognizing that they also have an agenda for the cards in their hand.
Loatheb is a very strong card which punishes spells. Yes it is only for 1 turn, but some decks will literally do nothing with that turn. And those are the decks that I like to play. It isn't just freeze mage, which can cut it in legend, but is by no means op, it's all of the control decks that can and would have been made which rely on spells instead of minions. Blizzard is making a decision about what they want games of Hearthstone to look like, and is making it clear that they don't want decks to just play spells, they want minion interaction.
I can understand a desire to make decks like freeze mage/miracle rogue more interactive, so it doesn't feel like the miracle player will either win next turn or not, and you have no clue which one it will be, but this is not a good way to do it.
With all that said, I will still wait to see what the meta looks like when this card is released before passing final judgement, it just feels like the game is being designed to discourage the kinds of decks that I, and I imagine many others, enjoy playing. The issue with these kinds of decks is the feel non-interactive, but that is an issue which could be addressed instead of releasing cards like Loatheb.
Phoenix Shaman deck + guide:
Its only for 1 turn. Yes its basically a Skip a Turn effect in cases like Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage. But thats it. 1 Turn is important, but by no means is it game breakingly OP.
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A 5/5 for 5 that says "Battlecry: Your opponent skips his/her next turn" is absolutely op. Granted it only says that against some decks, but that means that those decks will no longer exist. This card is really good, it will be in a lot of decks, and will make a lot of could-have-been-viable decks not playable
Phoenix Shaman deck + guide:
My thoughts:
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Agree with Adurin no more OP then killing off a taunt druid's Druid of the Claw with black knight, Its a temp swing. The major tempo swings can always win you a game but by no means is it Loatheb is played /End Miracle rogue or Freeze Mage.
Side note:
Many people talk about how strong this is for aggro decks I'd like to think how strong this plays into shaman's weaknesses. The harder match ups Miracle and Freeze mage with proper timing its enough to give a victory.
This card to me seems very strong, any control deck is at a disadvantage when this is played against. This cards looks to be pushing the aggro meta more and i wouldn't be surprised to see this run in many decks on ladder. With the right timing it can completely destroy a players next turn.
Its a pretty strong card.
it stops you from getting board wiped the following turn, so you gain 1 extra turn which is huge, your oponent can only play minions but if hes behind just waiting to brawl/flamestrike you down, well you just got ahead by a lot.
The best use of this card is stopping sweepers, but it is also good in the miracle matchup as well as in any control matchup, in the aggro matchup tho its just a 5/5 for 5 which is subpar.
Def a good legendary, I thought it to be "meh" after I saw it for the first time but it only took me a few seconds thinking to realize how good it was.
Retired Hearthstone Columnist
Yeah well decks that rely purely on spells won't be able to do so anymore. And its not like you have to auto skip your turn just because you don't want to waste your mana for 1 spell. There are minions you can play and such. Its strong, but its not broken which is the definition of O.P.
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That's just an ignorant comment. The card is not broken. You can't use spells for 1 turn, very strong but not broken to say the least. Unlike Miracle where you can draw half your deck in 1 turn, the other half in the following turn and your opponent can't do much of anything about it.
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I wonder what they smoke before designing some cards.. as if they don't remember why Sylvanas was nerfed. Really disappointed.
if you look all the cards the are releasing are around the power level of the cards we had before they were nerfed. I think its effective way to get more longevity out of the cards, The new meta will be similar to our pre nerfed meta and as cards get nerfed into place we will see shifts in the meta rather than having cards perfectly balanced already and few meta changes till the next card pack release.
This seems designed to mess with Miracle, but it also gives aggro a huge and unneeded help against any kind of control. Lots of decks will want to brawl/holy nova/consecrate/hellfire/shadowflame/blizzard on turn 5/6, and this buys the zoo player another turn to hit the face.
This is also a legendary people....5/5 for 5 Mana is common/basic quality......So the battlecry better be pretty damn good to climb past rare/epic quality. Also situational. It's rather strong, but by no means is it overkill.
Its a legendary so only one in a deck, is it worth it? Typically will only see it in your hand in half of your matches, and even then he may just be a 5/5 for 5 mana with no effect on the game.
Only if the meta stays spell based, kinda like the The Black Knight used to be mandatory when handlock and druid taunts were popular on the ladder, just druid slipped and TBK fell out of favor. He's making a come back right now but once again handlock and druid taunts are rising. Comparing this to Sylvanas Windrunner I think is over reactionary. That card was outstanding as a 5/5 for 5 mana with a potentially greater than one turn effect, Loatheb is just a one turn effect card, good yes but if meta shifts away from heavy spells it falls out of decks.
It buys a turn vs. Miracle and Freeze Mage two of the most spell dominated decks in the game. That's it, if you can't capitalize on that gained turn he is little more than a 5/5 for 5 mana which is good but not outstanding and probably wouldn't warrant a slot in your deck.
We'll see how it shakes out but since it's legendary I expect its affect to be muted, once the meta shifts post Naxx.
This card will definitely shake up the meta and whether it's OP or not I'm not too worried about since EVERYTHING is about to change with 30 new cards about to drop.
What I'm really excited about is the indication that Blizz is designing cards with some enemy disruption in mind. Beyond a handful of secrets, the current meta tends to play out like "I try to play my combos before you do." Cards like this interrupt your normal play sequence and require some improvisation to play around. Hopefully more cards with similar mechanics are on the way.
innervating out turn 3 loatheb..... gonna be brutal
Don't care. What I do care about is how restrictive the card is. I really have no interest in continuing to play if the game devolves into yeti-bumping. We were all worried about this when every single deck was the same tempo oriented strategy with the same cards (some time around frost giants nerf) and, now, we're heading right back to most boring, simplistic style of gameplay HS can offer.
The comments I'm seeing are ridiculous. Did all of you start playing after open beta? Do none of you remember Sylvanas?
This card is a mistake.
Will reserve my comments until after I see how the card plays, I hope it doesn't give rise to an even more aggressive environment but that remains to be seen (until all cards are released and played). I think it's a great sign that we are seeing cards move in the direction of being able to have meaningful impact on spells/plans of your opponent during their turn. Right now you can make the assumption opponent is going to blast you into oblivion and there is nothing to do but but watch yourself die or maybe play a healer. There was nothing (except mostly crappy secrets) to disrupt your opponent's spells.