I think we can all agree miracle rogue isnt doing too well atm and i think of a few reasons why this is
-no aoe at all Nothing, fan of knifes?? really. It disgusting to play against token druid, u get ur vancleef to 8/8 only to then have a board of 3/3 living mana crystals cuz they're obviously saving up thier +1/+1 against rogues cuz they're well aware rogues simply can not clear the board. I feel like rogue has one of the best hard removals like vilespine this card this soooo good and only thing that makes control match ups winnable.
-no heal, well we do have the 4-mana prince but its not good if it gets removed by a spell which honestly it does most of time. I've played agro alot and most of the time people do trade often to secure their future minions and plans, but with rogue its a agro paradise. They just flood the board cuz no aoe, they keep going face cuz no1 runs taunts in miracle and they have no heal or armor available to them.
-(not a problem) Great against warlock, generally good against control match ups, so i run the DK cuz i feel theirs just so much potential there, going 4 gaints, 16 dmg with evis, absolutely insane with auctioneer. Vilespine insane value! Now i am aware that people have said the dk isn't good for miracle anyways, but its the most fun part i feel.
I think blizzard doesn't support miracle all that much since its been played since the dawn of hearthstone, just like freeze mage. Now i don't really consider myself an expert on miracle rogue but it does get destroyed by agro. Don't even get me started on murloc paladin!
Well i don't know man im currently running like double vanish (so kinda aoe)
Heals is noramlly gain for card generations or just 4 mana prince
i don't think its that bad honestly i have gone through 15-5 without losing more than 3 games agaisn't argo out of 7 games
Maybe you need work on the mentally of playing miracle and keeping what muligan for what to increase your chances i haven't had trouble using miracle as of current meta (unless you know jade but thats why i have vanish)
Edit: not to mentions you have backstab si7 , and crazy vacleef stuff so argo for me is less of problem than control matchup
All that makes sense, but still in my experience with miracle rogue I have had more success in handling agro decks than control decks. With cards like si, questing adventurer, van cleef and other combo wombos, them playing minions is just fuel to get my game going. Ofc when things get out of hand and there is like 4 minions on board its probably game over.
Vs control decks miracle just lacks the punch. Only big threats are van cleef and 2 arcane giants, sherazin can be good aswell, but thats all. How does that compete with any priest right now.
Also im f2p and ive invested A LOT in miracle rogue since i started playing (just before ungoro).
Problem I see with Miracle is, most decks are going to be running at least 1 hard removal for the Lich King. ( I know I run something in every deck I have for him) ... and that is going to take out your VanCleef. I can't count the number of times I have seen a rogue just pull off a freaking BEAUTIFUL run and drop a HUGE VanCleef, only to see him gt Hexed, Polymorphed, Soul Drained ... ect. I almost feel bad for doing it ... almost.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
It's unfortunate that rogue has got the shaft in the prior few releases. Miracle has gotten a couple cards here and there but they often seem to be too over costed or under-statted. Now, I've argued with a few of my friends about this in the past and just because c certain rogue cards see play does not make them "good". Shaku and Sherazin are perfect examples, Sherazin is definitely better than shaku but they already pale in comparison to Edwin and then even more so when you look at a legendary like Tirion Fordring. But the problem seems to be a lack of options. I've been a rogue main since the gvg release and i still miss the oil rogue play style. We only have miracle and unlike many other decks, since ours is so synergy oriented, you don't have enough parts to swap out in exchange for tech cards or anything like that. Fitting black knight or eater of secrets seems to bog down miracle rogue in the worst of ways. However, I don't always think this is a rogue problem as much as it is evident of the hypocrisy and general shoddiness of blizzard's concept of both balance and class identity. In my opinion, it's fine that rogue doesn't have class taunts or heals but they should have burst and they should have card draw, features that simulate a cut throat or pick pocket in a card game pretty well. But other classes, in recent memory have had no thematic weaknesses. Druid has their ramp and prior also shared a weakness to wide boards. No longer is that the case thanks to a combination of tempo ramp cards like Jade blossom, mire keeper, and innervate making them able to intercept wide boards with early spreading plague or double swipes.
Okay, I'm a little drunk right now, so this may be a chaotic mix of some good points and some complaining, but I just think blizzard really, really needs to take a look at EVERY class and attempt to balance the basic and classic sets towards a specific class identity with a strength and weakness considered in the process. Supposedly, rogue is supposed to be the card draw class, yet that identity seems to primarily come from synergy with auctioneer (a neutral), we have Sprint and when you compare it to nourish or even worse yet to UI. It's not even close. Okay okay, yes we have prep, but you can't prints shitty cards that rely entirely on synergy with another card to be playable. It really just doesn't make any sense. It's as if the rogue spells are all nerfed because of the existence of preparation. Isn't prep supposed to be a reward for a card that is essentially "do nothing unless you have a spell to play with it". The same mentality that went into that so called "balance" was never considered when they printed the strongest 10 Mana card ever for the class that will get there faster than anyone else. Why isn't UI nerfed to compensate for the fact that it will be played on turn 5 or 6? Fuck you blizzard.
No conceal and giants is what is making miracle weak. The deck revolves around playing cheap cards and cycling, yet we have a deck full of bricks. Until we get a more balanced conceal, we are pretty much sol. We can't race aggro with a concealed questing and we can't create massive boards anymore because we are punished by everything from anduin to spreading plague now.
I've been playing wild pyro, with the 2/3 poisonous combo on pyro, and then a cheap spell for board clear. However, i am running this combo in a midrange rogue deck ive been playtesting which you can check out if you want, but ill try it in dk miracle and normal miracle to see if the cards arent just dead draws.
It's unfortunate that rogue has got the shaft in the prior few releases. Miracle has gotten a couple cards here and there but they often seem to be too over costed or under-statted. Now, I've argued with a few of my friends about this in the past and just because c certain rogue cards see play does not make them "good". Shaku and Sherazin are perfect examples, Sherazin is definitely better than shaku but they already pale in comparison to Edwin and then even more so when you look at a legendary like Tirion Fordring. But the problem seems to be a lack of options. I've been a rogue main since the gvg release and i still miss the oil rogue play style. We only have miracle and unlike many other decks, since ours is so synergy oriented, you don't have enough parts to swap out in exchange for tech cards or anything like that. Fitting black knight or eater of secrets seems to bog down miracle rogue in the worst of ways. However, I don't always think this is a rogue problem as much as it is evident of the hypocrisy and general shoddiness of blizzard's concept of both balance and class identity. In my opinion, it's fine that rogue doesn't have class taunts or heals but they should have burst and they should have card draw, features that simulate a cut throat or pick pocket in a card game pretty well. But other classes, in recent memory have had no thematic weaknesses. Druid has their ramp and prior also shared a weakness to wide boards. No longer is that the case thanks to a combination of tempo ramp cards like Jade blossom, mire keeper, and innervate making them able to intercept wide boards with early spreading plague or double swipes.
Okay, I'm a little drunk right now, so this may be a chaotic mix of some good points and some complaining, but I just think blizzard really, really needs to take a look at EVERY class and attempt to balance the basic and classic sets towards a specific class identity with a strength and weakness considered in the process. Supposedly, rogue is supposed to be the card draw class, yet that identity seems to primarily come from synergy with auctioneer (a neutral), we have Sprint and when you compare it to nourish or even worse yet to UI. It's not even close. Okay okay, yes we have prep, but you can't prints shitty cards that rely entirely on synergy with another card to be playable. It really just doesn't make any sense. It's as if the rogue spells are all nerfed because of the existence of preparation. Isn't prep supposed to be a reward for a card that is essentially "do nothing unless you have a spell to play with it". The same mentality that went into that so called "balance" was never considered when they printed the strongest 10 Mana card ever for the class that will get there faster than anyone else. Why isn't UI nerfed to compensate for the fact that it will be played on turn 5 or 6? Fuck you blizzard.
Alright, angry drunk rogue fanboy rant over.
Man this is sooo true, Miralce rogue generally cant be tweaked as much, there is absolutely no space for cards like lich king.
The deck in general relies soo much on combo, this is especially true after the nerf to conceal, before the nerf u could set up a decent auctioneer and stealth it so it doesn't die instantly and u can gain full advantage, now u have to wait for the perfect turn to set up your auctioneers, edwin and gaints and they still get removed easily and thats pretty much when its game over for u.
I think we can all agree miracle rogue isnt doing too well atm and i think of a few reasons why this is
-no aoe at all
Nothing, fan of knifes?? really. It disgusting to play against token druid, u get ur vancleef to 8/8 only to then have a board of 3/3 living mana crystals cuz they're obviously saving up thier +1/+1 against rogues cuz they're well aware rogues simply can not clear the board.
I feel like rogue has one of the best hard removals like vilespine this card this soooo good and only thing that makes control match ups winnable.
-no heal, well we do have the 4-mana prince but its not good if it gets removed by a spell which honestly it does most of time. I've played agro alot and most of the time people do trade often to secure their future minions and plans, but with rogue its a agro paradise.
They just flood the board cuz no aoe, they keep going face cuz no1 runs taunts in miracle and they have no heal or armor available to them.
-(not a problem) Great against warlock, generally good against control match ups, so i run the DK cuz i feel theirs just so much potential there, going 4 gaints, 16 dmg with evis, absolutely insane with auctioneer. Vilespine insane value!
Now i am aware that people have said the dk isn't good for miracle anyways, but its the most fun part i feel.
I think blizzard doesn't support miracle all that much since its been played since the dawn of hearthstone, just like freeze mage.
Now i don't really consider myself an expert on miracle rogue but it does get destroyed by agro.
Don't even get me started on murloc paladin!
Well i don't know man im currently running like double vanish (so kinda aoe)
Heals is noramlly gain for card generations or just 4 mana prince
i don't think its that bad honestly i have gone through 15-5 without losing more than 3 games agaisn't argo out of 7 games
Maybe you need work on the mentally of playing miracle and keeping what muligan for what to increase your chances i haven't had trouble using miracle as of current meta (unless you know jade but thats why i have vanish)
Edit: not to mentions you have backstab si7 , and crazy vacleef stuff so argo for me is less of problem than control matchup
All that makes sense, but still in my experience with miracle rogue I have had more success in handling agro decks than control decks. With cards like si, questing adventurer, van cleef and other combo wombos, them playing minions is just fuel to get my game going. Ofc when things get out of hand and there is like 4 minions on board its probably game over.
Vs control decks miracle just lacks the punch. Only big threats are van cleef and 2 arcane giants, sherazin can be good aswell, but thats all. How does that compete with any priest right now.
Also im f2p and ive invested A LOT in miracle rogue since i started playing (just before ungoro).
Problem I see with Miracle is, most decks are going to be running at least 1 hard removal for the Lich King. ( I know I run something in every deck I have for him) ... and that is going to take out your VanCleef. I can't count the number of times I have seen a rogue just pull off a freaking BEAUTIFUL run and drop a HUGE VanCleef, only to see him gt Hexed, Polymorphed, Soul Drained ... ect. I almost feel bad for doing it ... almost.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
It's unfortunate that rogue has got the shaft in the prior few releases. Miracle has gotten a couple cards here and there but they often seem to be too over costed or under-statted. Now, I've argued with a few of my friends about this in the past and just because c certain rogue cards see play does not make them "good". Shaku and Sherazin are perfect examples, Sherazin is definitely better than shaku but they already pale in comparison to Edwin and then even more so when you look at a legendary like Tirion Fordring. But the problem seems to be a lack of options. I've been a rogue main since the gvg release and i still miss the oil rogue play style. We only have miracle and unlike many other decks, since ours is so synergy oriented, you don't have enough parts to swap out in exchange for tech cards or anything like that. Fitting black knight or eater of secrets seems to bog down miracle rogue in the worst of ways. However, I don't always think this is a rogue problem as much as it is evident of the hypocrisy and general shoddiness of blizzard's concept of both balance and class identity. In my opinion, it's fine that rogue doesn't have class taunts or heals but they should have burst and they should have card draw, features that simulate a cut throat or pick pocket in a card game pretty well. But other classes, in recent memory have had no thematic weaknesses. Druid has their ramp and prior also shared a weakness to wide boards. No longer is that the case thanks to a combination of tempo ramp cards like Jade blossom, mire keeper, and innervate making them able to intercept wide boards with early spreading plague or double swipes.
Okay, I'm a little drunk right now, so this may be a chaotic mix of some good points and some complaining, but I just think blizzard really, really needs to take a look at EVERY class and attempt to balance the basic and classic sets towards a specific class identity with a strength and weakness considered in the process. Supposedly, rogue is supposed to be the card draw class, yet that identity seems to primarily come from synergy with auctioneer (a neutral), we have Sprint and when you compare it to nourish or even worse yet to UI. It's not even close. Okay okay, yes we have prep, but you can't prints shitty cards that rely entirely on synergy with another card to be playable. It really just doesn't make any sense. It's as if the rogue spells are all nerfed because of the existence of preparation. Isn't prep supposed to be a reward for a card that is essentially "do nothing unless you have a spell to play with it". The same mentality that went into that so called "balance" was never considered when they printed the strongest 10 Mana card ever for the class that will get there faster than anyone else. Why isn't UI nerfed to compensate for the fact that it will be played on turn 5 or 6? Fuck you blizzard.
Alright, angry drunk rogue fanboy rant over.
No conceal and giants is what is making miracle weak. The deck revolves around playing cheap cards and cycling, yet we have a deck full of bricks. Until we get a more balanced conceal, we are pretty much sol. We can't race aggro with a concealed questing and we can't create massive boards anymore because we are punished by everything from anduin to spreading plague now.
I've been playing wild pyro, with the 2/3 poisonous combo on pyro, and then a cheap spell for board clear. However, i am running this combo in a midrange rogue deck ive been playtesting which you can check out if you want, but ill try it in dk miracle and normal miracle to see if the cards arent just dead draws.
The deck in general relies soo much on combo, this is especially true after the nerf to conceal, before the nerf u could set up a decent auctioneer and stealth it so it doesn't die instantly and u can gain full advantage, now u have to wait for the perfect turn to set up your auctioneers, edwin and gaints and they still get removed easily and thats pretty much when its game over for u.
That's why you all need to come over to the dark side and play miracle druid.