I'm not saying locks arent on the strong side, but I wish people posting threads that complain X class is too strong would post what class they play. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the people complaining about warlock are paladins
I'm not saying locks arent on the strong side, but I wish people posting threads that complain X class is too strong would post what class they play. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the people complaining about warlock are paladins
I play with rogue and mage after the dead of old school CW, but when I play mage is control not burn secret.
You feel that Cubeock is more opressive than Aggro Paladin is because losing to Cubelock takes a very long time compared to the others. Against Cubelock it takes 10+ turns to lose, against Paladin you're probably dead by turn 6 or so.
It's never about winrates but the time you spend in a won or lost match!
Another stupid hearthstone expert plays 5 games and he thinks he knows everything about Wild meta.
I only playing Wild now because rogue is unplayable in Standard, and all games vs no warlocks are fun and fair.
Warlock is busted in Standard, broken beyond believe in Wild, you admit or not don't will change this fact.
Hit up that Mill Rogue bro!
Sometimes I like to play Mill but for the most part I like to play tempo/jades when playing with rogue.
Talking about, this days I play vs rogue in Wild only 2 times and both are Mill, rogue probably is the weakest class in Wild now, if not is, then is warrior.
You feel that Cubeock is more opressive than Aggro Paladin is because losing to Cubelock takes a very long time compared to the others. Against Cubelock it takes 10+ turns to lose, against Paladin you're probably dead by turn 6 or so.
It's never about winrates but the time you spend in a won or lost match!
Maybe is the way I build the deck, but paladins are far from a issue to me, I have more than 60% winrate vs them, but with my luck I play 5 or 6 times vs warlocks for each match vs paladins.
The two aggressive paladins decks have a much better win rate and i do not see on every forum or discussion site how broken or to good paladin decks are. Just because it feels bad to lose to does not mean it is the best deck ever made an example would be quest mage, quest mage feels awful to lose to. Here is the site I use to prove that Cube Lock is a tier 2 deck and not that big of a problem...https://hsreplay.net/meta/
Paladins are annoying to play against... But I feel like their win rates are higher in lower ranks. The only class I actually have a losing record against is warlock haha (mostly because I don't want to play cubelock or priest myself). I've only recently started playing zoolock with moderate success (even though that shows up nowhere on that tier list really haha).
Paladins still just feels beatable, and it feels good to survive a couple waves of murlocs. Cubelocks are just boring and kinda frustrating to play against (just my opinion, and also my personal stats against current decks haha).
I agree. You have a shot against paladin, even priest. Warlock, you have to really hope that they don't get a turn in which they get an opportunity for a free play (i.e they cheat something out and cube it). Then it's a downward spiral.
I played around 30 wild games this season and rarely went up against warlock. However, 50% of my games were against paladins which are far more rage-inducing. With warlocks, you can outvalue them over time. You already know what they're fully capable of so just bring a deck that provides constant value or has half a bajillion clears. The only variation of warlock I've had difficulty with in wild (playing my big spells Reno mage) is giants and that's been almost pushed out of the meta by the obscene number of paladins. I don't blame Blizz for not nerfing warlocks. They had absolutely no good decks before K&C and were the least seen class during KotFT. It's not like they're uncounterable. You may just have to alter which deck you're using to compensate for the increased number of them.
Well, when you play a deck that counters them, like control priest, you still find they can win as their draw is so powerful the deck is often more consistent than yours. Then your deck has more counters than theirs in the meta. If you want to play mill rogue to counter warlock, then be prepared to get pasted by aggro. I just find that with Rin, doomguards, voidlords, healing, Guldan as a finisher, different ways to cheat out minions, giants giants for early threats, copy cards besides cube, they seem to have a package flexible enough to deal with any threat. The only hard counter seems to be rogue (correct me if I'm wrong), which is a fairly bad deck to ladder with. Shaman works but good luck laddering with that, and it's not a guaranteed win. It's a tough ask with control mage, believe me, you have to make zero mistakes and one turn of cloned doomguards you're looking at a major smack when the Guldan turn comes. If all the other decks have multiple counters, then warlock should too. I suppose secret mage is a counter but that is such a fragile deck.
Sometimes, the decks YOU PERSONALLY like the most, just isn't tier decks.. so if you wanna climb to legend, either tweek your deck, or play a tier deck.. If you're playing just to have fun, why bitch about warlocks.. Have you ever had GIANTS CHARGING your face? Did you play when pirate warrior was like 95% of the meta? How about the Reno era?.....
please.. EVERYTIME some deck is really good, we get 1000000 posts from people bitching about it... stop bitching, and start brewing, if you don't like it..
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May your days be salty, and your nights bitter! :D
I only playing Wild now because rogue is unplayable in Standard
Rogue is far from unplayable in standard. I've played against several of them over the last couple days. It's not just one deck either, I've played against Miracle, Quest, and Mill at rank 4-5.
"..level never seen before?" Are you new? We just had a period with Jade Druid that was horrendous. The pirate warrior meta was unbearable. The there was secret paladin era, face hunter, aggro shaman....I can think of so many metas that were worse. I say this as someone who doesn't play warlock at all. The doomguard nerf has been a long time coming though.
Sometimes, the decks YOU PERSONALLY like the most, just isn't tier decks.. so if you wanna climb to legend, either tweek your deck, or play a tier deck.. If you're playing just to have fun, why bitch about warlocks.. Have you ever had GIANTS CHARGING your face? Did you play when pirate warrior was like 95% of the meta? How about the Reno era?.....
please.. EVERYTIME some deck is really good, we get 1000000 posts from people bitching about it... stop bitching, and start brewing, if you don't like it..
Powerful decks I don't mind. I've gone through most eras of high powered decks without a problem. This particular incarnation of locks is just stifling and unavoidable. I see it in standard, wild, and casual. It completely shuts down, not specific classes, but entire styles of play. Tempo and midrange are dead because of Voidlord shennanigans. It's too consistant to get that great of a card out on turn 5 or 6. Then it's cubed and the lock heals up. There's a reason Blizz does balance changes and I think it's due.
Sometimes, the decks YOU PERSONALLY like the most, just isn't tier decks.. so if you wanna climb to legend, either tweek your deck, or play a tier deck.. If you're playing just to have fun, why bitch about warlocks.. Have you ever had GIANTS CHARGING your face? Did you play when pirate warrior was like 95% of the meta? How about the Reno era?.....
please.. EVERYTIME some deck is really good, we get 1000000 posts from people bitching about it... stop bitching, and start brewing, if you don't like it..
Powerful decks I don't mind. I've gone through most eras of high powered decks without a problem. This particular incarnation of locks is just stifling and unavoidable. I see it in standard, wild, and casual. It completely shuts down, not specific classes, but entire styles of play. Tempo and midrange are dead because of Voidlord shennanigans. It's too consistant to get that great of a card out on turn 5 or 6. Then it's cubed and the lock heals up. There's a reason Blizz does balance changes and I think it's due.
Player better and play better decks. Problem solved. I main Cubelock in Standard and Wild and am a top 5% player and there are plenty of decks across all classes in all formats that can beat Cubelock if you are of appropriate skill.
The problem with Cubelock is that the deck has a high skill cap and those who have put in enough reps with it to be good, are going to be difficult to beat. Those who are not all that good with it, are beatable with a great number of decks in both formats.
You talk about playing Mage and then I hear you are playing Control Mage and not Secret Mage... switch to Secret Mage if you are having trouble and want to play Mage. If you cannot afford Mage, well then the problem still is not Cubelock.
Stop complaining about every single deck that is somewhat good. They can't nerf every freaking deck just because you can't find a way to beat it. Warlock is very beatable, even with Paladin..
although i usually don't like these kind of threads OP is right and most of you miss the point he is stating:
even if cubelock is beatable (and surely paladin is not a good counter - whoever posted that comment must be rank 25 and beyond...) it is beyond annoying to play against. and compared to the razakusflame when they had everything on curve: a cubelock having giant on 4 weapon on 5 into cube and dark pact on 6 is just as unbeatable and does even more broken stuff against all styles of play than razakus was able to.
n'zoth isnt that much of a loss to cubelock and they get another decent clear + body with the new legendary while other strong decks as of now loose way more.
blizzard needs to do something and i feel it has to be somewhere between lackey and dark pact
Every class gets it's time in the sun. Some classes will simply be better than others at certain times in the game. As a lover of warlock since I first started playing, I'm having a great time in the current meta. However, at the same time I know that eventually a few classes will rise to replace the top dogs (currently those top dogs are paladin, warlock, priest, and somewhat mage). Stop complaining and learn to have a few favorite classes to help you get through the metas in which your favorite is under-performing.
Blizzard (Ben Brode himself) said they (paraphrasing) "like Cube Lock where it is because it has a high skill ceiling and the win rates favor a skilled pilot." I imagine they are doing their best to make decks of similar power level that also require significant planning and resource management. As much as I hate the monster Warlock has become, I would rather see more classes be able to compete with it rather than just nerf something that is seeing success.
I’ve been playing HS since beta and I agree that Warlock has never been in a stronger place but Zoo also once dominated the meta and that was a very different kind of deck. I think people are mostly upset we now have a far more control orientated meta. I would like to see things revert back to more mid-range even though I like playing late game decks. I hope this will happen with Nzoth rotating. Warlock will likely still be Tier 1 in the new expansion but it won’t be as oppesive as now. I used to play a lot of OG handlock and I really loved that deck. It wasn’t overpowered and lost to fast decks a lot more than Cubelock or Controlock. People often blame cheating out stuff but I actually think that it is heal that is the main problem. Back in the hand lock days the only heal you had was 2xhealbot and maybe 2x EarthenRing Farseer and Jaraxxus. It used to be a real skill knowing how to manage your health total and games were often very close and decided on you topdecking heal or your opponent topdecking burn. Taunted giants got countered by BGH burn or just weren’t enough. Current warlock has EZ heal and EZ taunt. I play it a lot and win with it a lot but I can’t say it’s more fun to play than hand lock was.
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I'm not saying locks arent on the strong side, but I wish people posting threads that complain X class is too strong would post what class they play. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the people complaining about warlock are paladins
You feel that Cubeock is more opressive than Aggro Paladin is because losing to Cubelock takes a very long time compared to the others. Against Cubelock it takes 10+ turns to lose, against Paladin you're probably dead by turn 6 or so.
It's never about winrates but the time you spend in a won or lost match!
Sometimes, the decks YOU PERSONALLY like the most, just isn't tier decks.. so if you wanna climb to legend, either tweek your deck, or play a tier deck.. If you're playing just to have fun, why bitch about warlocks.. Have you ever had GIANTS CHARGING your face? Did you play when pirate warrior was like 95% of the meta? How about the Reno era?.....
please.. EVERYTIME some deck is really good, we get 1000000 posts from people bitching about it... stop bitching, and start brewing, if you don't like it..
May your days be salty, and your nights bitter! :D
"..level never seen before?" Are you new? We just had a period with Jade Druid that was horrendous. The pirate warrior meta was unbearable. The there was secret paladin era, face hunter, aggro shaman....I can think of so many metas that were worse. I say this as someone who doesn't play warlock at all. The doomguard nerf has been a long time coming though.
the only unfair ruiner is Naga Sea Witch variation
different type of demonlocks, cubelock and controllock are pretty ok
at least you can always kill it with tempomage or outvalue with fatigewarrior ResidentSleeper
Heroes never die.
Player better and play better decks. Problem solved. I main Cubelock in Standard and Wild and am a top 5% player and there are plenty of decks across all classes in all formats that can beat Cubelock if you are of appropriate skill.
The problem with Cubelock is that the deck has a high skill cap and those who have put in enough reps with it to be good, are going to be difficult to beat. Those who are not all that good with it, are beatable with a great number of decks in both formats.
You talk about playing Mage and then I hear you are playing Control Mage and not Secret Mage... switch to Secret Mage if you are having trouble and want to play Mage. If you cannot afford Mage, well then the problem still is not Cubelock.
Stop complaining about every single deck that is somewhat good. They can't nerf every freaking deck just because you can't find a way to beat it. Warlock is very beatable, even with Paladin..
although i usually don't like these kind of threads OP is right and most of you miss the point he is stating:
even if cubelock is beatable (and surely paladin is not a good counter - whoever posted that comment must be rank 25 and beyond...) it is beyond annoying to play against. and compared to the razakusflame when they had everything on curve: a cubelock having giant on 4 weapon on 5 into cube and dark pact on 6 is just as unbeatable and does even more broken stuff against all styles of play than razakus was able to.
n'zoth isnt that much of a loss to cubelock and they get another decent clear + body with the new legendary while other strong decks as of now loose way more.
blizzard needs to do something and i feel it has to be somewhere between lackey and dark pact
Every class gets it's time in the sun. Some classes will simply be better than others at certain times in the game. As a lover of warlock since I first started playing, I'm having a great time in the current meta. However, at the same time I know that eventually a few classes will rise to replace the top dogs (currently those top dogs are paladin, warlock, priest, and somewhat mage). Stop complaining and learn to have a few favorite classes to help you get through the metas in which your favorite is under-performing.
Blizzard (Ben Brode himself) said they (paraphrasing) "like Cube Lock where it is because it has a high skill ceiling and the win rates favor a skilled pilot." I imagine they are doing their best to make decks of similar power level that also require significant planning and resource management. As much as I hate the monster Warlock has become, I would rather see more classes be able to compete with it rather than just nerf something that is seeing success.
https://www.wired.com/video/2018/03/blizzard-s-ben-brode-answers-hearthstone-questions-from-twitter/
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I’ve been playing HS since beta and I agree that Warlock has never been in a stronger place but Zoo also once dominated the meta and that was a very different kind of deck. I think people are mostly upset we now have a far more control orientated meta. I would like to see things revert back to more mid-range even though I like playing late game decks. I hope this will happen with Nzoth rotating. Warlock will likely still be Tier 1 in the new expansion but it won’t be as oppesive as now. I used to play a lot of OG handlock and I really loved that deck. It wasn’t overpowered and lost to fast decks a lot more than Cubelock or Controlock. People often blame cheating out stuff but I actually think that it is heal that is the main problem. Back in the hand lock days the only heal you had was 2xhealbot and maybe 2x EarthenRing Farseer and Jaraxxus. It used to be a real skill knowing how to manage your health total and games were often very close and decided on you topdecking heal or your opponent topdecking burn. Taunted giants got countered by BGH burn or just weren’t enough. Current warlock has EZ heal and EZ taunt. I play it a lot and win with it a lot but I can’t say it’s more fun to play than hand lock was.
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In standard warlock is strong, just like paladín and priest. Actually both of them have better win ratio atm.