That's the deck I've been using, but It's been changing often. I started with Trump's but removed 2 Azure Drake's in favor of a Mana Tide (provides sometimes better draw and has the Totem synergy with the deck) and an Al'Akir (just something I've been testing out, although I kind of regret this decision).
I also removed the TBV's for a Bloodlust and a Loatheb. I'm thinking of change Al'Akir for another Bloodlust, just because it's an easy way of winning on turn 6 or 7 if you've got board control.
Again, this is all subject to change.This thread was partially done because of my confusion to the persistence of TBV even though I haven't seen it be "successful" now that people have figured out how it works. It reminds me a lot of Mill Rogue, where everyone ranted and raved about it at first, but then once people got the hang of it, the deck just fell out of the meta quickly.
If you want to add 2 bloodlust, might I recommend adding one Totemic Might. The value of this card is much higher; especially since you have two Mana Tide Totem in your deck.
I've been playing 2 Mukla's Champion and 1 Thunder Bluff Valiant in my totem shaman deck. It's been working wonders. I'm starting to prefer Mukla's Champion due to the fact it can buff ALL your minions. Thunder Bluff seems to always let me down as I don't always have enough totems to take advantage of it. However, Mukla can buff everything like Dr. Boom and his bots, Spiders, Sludge Belchers, etc. I've gone from rank 18 to rank 8 using the deck with limited time to play.
I've been splitting my time up between Hearthstone and Skyforge. And as a primarily Arena player, I went from rank 20 to rank 9 in 2 days with little effort. Last night I was having problems sleeping (the heat in California is killing me, damn it lol), so I played at around 3 am and fell to rank 12 this morning. It was hilarious. I don't even remember the games.
I've been playing 2 Mukla's Champion and 1 Thunder Bluff Valiant in my totem shaman deck. It's been working wonders. I'm starting to prefer Mukla's Champion due to the fact it can buff ALL your minions. Thunder Bluff seems to always let me down as I don't always have enough totems to take advantage of it. However, Mukla can buff everything like Dr. Boom and his bots, Spiders, Sludge Belchers, etc. I've gone from rank 18 to rank 8 using the deck with limited time to play.
I think that this card is powerful and definitely doesn't merit the criticism of being a "win more" card.
At worst it is a 7 mana 3/6 that summons on average a 2/2, giving 5/8 of stats, and It isn't that uncommon for there to be another totem on the board already.
It's health really benefits it as it makes it quite hard to remove with anything other than a fireball or a creature of ogre size and up.
I was thinking of some of these changes. But I think Rockbiter is useful as removal. Having 1 in your opening hand for cards like Voidwalker, Northsire Cleric, Mana Wyrm, etc., is fantastic. And during mid/late game, you can use the 2nd + BloodLust to get rid of larger threats or end a game with a bit of extra damage. So, I'm not sure it's worth removing it. I think Trump said something like, "3 damage for 1 mana is craaaazy."
I've been playing 2 Mukla's Champion and 1 Thunder Bluff Valiant in my totem shaman deck. It's been working wonders. I'm starting to prefer Mukla's Champion due to the fact it can buff ALL your minions. Thunder Bluff seems to always let me down as I don't always have enough totems to take advantage of it. However, Mukla can buff everything like Dr. Boom and his bots, Spiders, Sludge Belchers, etc. I've gone from rank 18 to rank 8 using the deck with limited time to play.
Generically Mukla's Champion could be much better, only thing is that it's so prone to dying by your next turn because of its low health. What's great about Thunder Bluff Valiant is that it's twice as sticky and it's quicker to finish of your opponent when you can buff your totems with 2 attack compared to 1/1 (has the advantage of being a Bloodlust). Try using Totemic Might. I can see it being chosen over TBV in a slower shaman-totem deck but ultimately TBV is great for its sticky stats and relation to the theme of the deck. Mukla's Champion might be interesting with Garrison Commander.
You know, I've been thinking about this change exactly, but there are a few things still bothering me; namely, that Mukla's Champion is easier to remove than TBV. But I do give it lots of credit because it can do things like putting Totem Golem outside of Flamestrike range. Both those things don't really solve the whole, "Win more" problem. These cards aren't going to give you the extra 12 damage than you can get from a Bloodlust or Savage Roar or double Fireball or whatever., in a single turn. And if they stick, then it's already a "win more" situation, really. MsC and TBV are more about slowing down your opponent by giving them a bunch of little minions to deal with.
But on turn 7, it's either too late (against aggro), or your threats aren't going to be big enough to handle their answers (against control removal spells or big creatures that will take like 3 totems to kill).
I was thinking of some of these changes. But I think Rockbiter is useful as removal. Having 1 in your opening hand for cards like Voidwalker, Northsire Cleric, Mana Wyrm, etc., is fantastic. And during mid/late game, you can use the 2nd + BloodLust to get rid of larger threats or end a game with a bit of extra damage. So, I'm not sure it's worth removing it. I think Trump said something like, "3 damage for 1 mana is craaaazy."
I think he was talking in terms of combining it with Al'Akir the Windlord as it's basically 6 damage for one but I think it's still reasonable to still keep one if you don't have Al'Akir the Windlord in the deck. I was thinking in terms of replacing it with a weapon or minion as the deck you posted has a good range of 1-2 mana drops and could use more mid-range costing card. Maybe even Crackle
That's the deck I've been using, but It's been changing often. I started with Trump's but removed 2 Azure Drake's in favor of a Mana Tide (provides sometimes better draw and has the Totem synergy with the deck) and an Al'Akir (just something I've been testing out, although I kind of regret this decision).
I also removed the TBV's for a Bloodlust and a Loatheb. I'm thinking of change Al'Akir for another Bloodlust, just because it's an easy way of winning on turn 6 or 7 if you've got board control.
Again, this is all subject to change.This thread was partially done because of my confusion to the persistence of TBV even though I haven't seen it be "successful" now that people have figured out how it works. It reminds me a lot of Mill Rogue, where everyone ranted and raved about it at first, but then once people got the hang of it, the deck just fell out of the meta quickly.
I like your list but and I see you don't like Thunder Bluff(for me is a OP card for shaman) BUT why you excluded Azure drake? Like why? Azure drake is the key for mid-range shaman to draw cards and stick with a 4/4 on the board(you can storm your opp with that spellpower in many cases), and 2x mana tide??! 95% of the time you will get like one cards draw from manatide because your opp will use anything to clear it! Once again, if you get value from Thunder Bluff next turn you opp will consume a spell or trade minions, he will do anything is necessary to clear your Thunder Bluff(that gives you tempo to play a big minion on the board because he used his mana crystals to clear your Thunder and don't play anything big on that turn). 4 days ago I hit legend with my Mid-range shaman from rank 4 so I know what I'm talking about srsly.
This is the list: ps - I like that you use Loatheb in your deck, is a Key card to win games srsly and is a key card to keep your minions and totems alive from shadowflame, flamestrike, any board clear.
Why no Azure Drake? It's a good card, but I get a lot of draw from Mana Tide. And Spell Damage is good, but I only have Lightning Strike to do Spell Damage, so it is unlikely that I will need +2 Spell damage. And if I only need 1, that is what my Totems are for.
Why x2 Mana Tide Totem? It's a great card for draw power. If you have Taunts up, you will get 2-3 cards off of 1 Mana Tide, and your opponent will STILL spend cards to get rid of their effect. Sometimes if I have Taunts on the board and my oponent doesn't have monsters, I'll just play 2 Mana Tides and draw 2 cards lol and my opponent can't stop both.
I like your list. But Earth Shock is too good to only run 1 of, especially with all the better cards (like Acolyte of Pain or Mad Scientist or Shielded Minibot) that can be beaten with Earth Shock. I also think Al'Akir is too slow. I don't try too hard to get Legend, and I'm sure I could. I just don't play much and so I try my best with what I have. I think this is definitely a competitive deck, and I still have changes to make to mine, but I'm just not sure about them yet.
Told in the beginning that 2 of them in a deck is a waste. One is enough, it's a decent card and helps to snowball faster if you're ahead, but a lot of players overrate it. Now when Shaman is played more often and people are more aware of TGT cards, alot of them are sacrifing face damage to clear your totems.
This is 100% correct. I've been in situations where I have Zombie Chow, Haunted Creeper, and totems on the board, and my opponent will ignore Zombie Chow and Haunted Creeper for turn after turn but continuously clear whatever totem(s) I drop. If I had TBV in my hand, it would've been terrible.
This is 100% correct. I've been in situations where I have Zombie Chow, Haunted Creeper, and totems on the board, and my opponent will ignore Zombie Chow and Haunted Creeper for turn after turn but continuously clear whatever totem(s) I drop. If I had TBV in my hand, it would've been terrible.
But... if they ignore those to clear totems you are already ahead just by the threat of TBV being in the deck. Have you thought about running feral spirit or other early taunts to make it hard to remove the totems?
I see a lot of people complaining they never have the totems, but are not supporting the totems at all , I see most people who have say a totem and a creeper on board on turn 4, not trade the creeper and buff the 2 spider tokens but instead buff the original creeper and the non-taunt totem. Same with things like rockbiter, I see people using rockbiter on totems and using them to clear instead of their face or another minion.
At the same time, I personally feel that TBV is just flat out better in a more control oriented shaman as well but that just my opinion.
Now, if you're able to play TBV AND hero power for the bonus, you're making a 7-mana play. In comparison to other plays available at that time that are aggressive, this seems weak at best. Take a Patron-Warsong combo, or Innervate-Force of Nature-Savage Roar, they are much more aggressive and can even be used as board clearers.
Patron + Warsong: two cards, 8 mana. Innervate + Force of Nature + Savage Roar: three cards.
Not really much of a comparison, since TBV + hero power is just one card and costs 7 mana. And because it's a different class.
In the worst-case scenario, you're paying 7 mana for 13 stats (1 mana more than you should, but not a disaster) and usually some small bonus (heal, taunt, spell damage). You also have major upside if TBV lives. If there's even one totem on the board when you play TBV + hero power, it's a strong play. Anything more than that is just icing on the cake.
If they ignore the totems, then you should be ahead, period. Regardless of having that card in your deck, you should be pretty well off. Also, if they ignore the totems, they are probably bad players and you shouldn't lose to begin with. Buffing your totems isn't always bad. Sometimes it's your best chance against a Paladin to drop an argus between 2 totems on board and have haunted creeper provide a 3rd attack against his Muster For Battle, than to have a 2/3 creeper and a 1/3 totem and a 0/2 totem. It's just about knowing when to protect your totems and when to buff. But still, in any case, it seems more difficult to keep your totems alive in case of an effective TBV than it does to just have enough minions on board for a big Bloodlust turn.
Patron + Warsong as a viable turn 7 play with a turn 6 Thaurissan. It's actually extremely likely given the draw power that Patron Warrior has. Not only is it likely, it's common. Then, of course, you could add Turn 7+coin, among other things.
Same with how common Force of Nature + Savage Roar plays work. But hey, I could easily just bring up Ancient of War and describe how it'd take 5 Totems to counter that. And that's 5~ totems ALREADY on the board that can attack, because TBV and the Hero Power totem can't actually do anything that turn. Yes, if you have specifically Flametongue + 2 Golems, it'd take less totems, but you're still already in a winning position at that point, no? Hell, with the 5 totems, a Bloodlust would've been better.
"If there's even one totem on the board when you play TBV + hero power, it's a strong play."
Nope. I think that's the kind of mentality that earned Mill Rogue crazy praise when it came out, but it eventually disappeared from constructed. I just don't think TBV+ hero power is at all a good play considering other possible Turn 7 plays for Shaman.
Patron + Warsong as a viable turn 7 play with a turn 6 Thaurissan. It's actually extremely likely given the draw power that Patron Warrior has. Not only is it likely, it's common. Then, of course, you could add Turn 7+coin, among other things.
Now you're comparing a three-card combo to a single card. It's apples to oranges.
It's also not "likely" or "common" in any sense of the words. On turn 6, you've only drawn 9 or 10 cards. It is unusual to have Thaurissan in hand on turn 6.
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I've gone as high as rank 3 with my Shaman deck since TGT. I don't have the time but I'd be confident I could get to legendary with it =)
Edit: let me rephrase that... I don't have the patience to run only 1 deck right now =) too many fun things to try
Friend me @Anasko#1102 |
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If you want to add 2 bloodlust, might I recommend adding one Totemic Might. The value of this card is much higher; especially since you have two Mana Tide Totem in your deck.
If you plan to remove Al'Akir the Windlord, the Rockbiter Weapon will probably not be necessary either as it was a Combo-Finisher for it. You can then add Azure Drake and/or Thunder Bluff Valiant.
I've been playing 2 Mukla's Champion and 1 Thunder Bluff Valiant in my totem shaman deck. It's been working wonders. I'm starting to prefer Mukla's Champion due to the fact it can buff ALL your minions. Thunder Bluff seems to always let me down as I don't always have enough totems to take advantage of it. However, Mukla can buff everything like Dr. Boom and his bots, Spiders, Sludge Belchers, etc. I've gone from rank 18 to rank 8 using the deck with limited time to play.
I've been splitting my time up between Hearthstone and Skyforge. And as a primarily Arena player, I went from rank 20 to rank 9 in 2 days with little effort. Last night I was having problems sleeping (the heat in California is killing me, damn it lol), so I played at around 3 am and fell to rank 12 this morning. It was hilarious. I don't even remember the games.
please post your deck!!!!
I think that this card is powerful and definitely doesn't merit the criticism of being a "win more" card.
At worst it is a 7 mana 3/6 that summons on average a 2/2, giving 5/8 of stats, and It isn't that uncommon for there to be another totem on the board already.
It's health really benefits it as it makes it quite hard to remove with anything other than a fireball or a creature of ogre size and up.
Well played...
I was thinking of some of these changes. But I think Rockbiter is useful as removal. Having 1 in your opening hand for cards like Voidwalker, Northsire Cleric, Mana Wyrm, etc., is fantastic. And during mid/late game, you can use the 2nd + BloodLust to get rid of larger threats or end a game with a bit of extra damage. So, I'm not sure it's worth removing it. I think Trump said something like, "3 damage for 1 mana is craaaazy."
Generically Mukla's Champion could be much better, only thing is that it's so prone to dying by your next turn because of its low health. What's great about Thunder Bluff Valiant is that it's twice as sticky and it's quicker to finish of your opponent when you can buff your totems with 2 attack compared to 1/1 (has the advantage of being a Bloodlust). Try using Totemic Might. I can see it being chosen over TBV in a slower shaman-totem deck but ultimately TBV is great for its sticky stats and relation to the theme of the deck. Mukla's Champion might be interesting with Garrison Commander.
You know, I've been thinking about this change exactly, but there are a few things still bothering me; namely, that Mukla's Champion is easier to remove than TBV. But I do give it lots of credit because it can do things like putting Totem Golem outside of Flamestrike range. Both those things don't really solve the whole, "Win more" problem. These cards aren't going to give you the extra 12 damage than you can get from a Bloodlust or Savage Roar or double Fireball or whatever., in a single turn. And if they stick, then it's already a "win more" situation, really. MsC and TBV are more about slowing down your opponent by giving them a bunch of little minions to deal with.
But on turn 7, it's either too late (against aggro), or your threats aren't going to be big enough to handle their answers (against control removal spells or big creatures that will take like 3 totems to kill).
I think he was talking in terms of combining it with Al'Akir the Windlord as it's basically 6 damage for one but I think it's still reasonable to still keep one if you don't have Al'Akir the Windlord in the deck. I was thinking in terms of replacing it with a weapon or minion as the deck you posted has a good range of 1-2 mana drops and could use more mid-range costing card. Maybe even Crackle
Tried it out with kodo rider, looks good so far.
I like your list but and I see you don't like Thunder Bluff(for me is a OP card for shaman) BUT why you excluded Azure drake? Like why? Azure drake is the key for mid-range shaman to draw cards and stick with a 4/4 on the board(you can storm your opp with that spellpower in many cases), and 2x mana tide??! 95% of the time you will get like one cards draw from manatide because your opp will use anything to clear it! Once again, if you get value from Thunder Bluff next turn you opp will consume a spell or trade minions, he will do anything is necessary to clear your Thunder Bluff(that gives you tempo to play a big minion on the board because he used his mana crystals to clear your Thunder and don't play anything big on that turn). 4 days ago I hit legend with my Mid-range shaman from rank 4 so I know what I'm talking about srsly.
This is the list: ps - I like that you use Loatheb in your deck, is a Key card to win games srsly and is a key card to keep your minions and totems alive from shadowflame, flamestrike, any board clear.
Why no Azure Drake? It's a good card, but I get a lot of draw from Mana Tide. And Spell Damage is good, but I only have Lightning Strike to do Spell Damage, so it is unlikely that I will need +2 Spell damage. And if I only need 1, that is what my Totems are for.
Why x2 Mana Tide Totem? It's a great card for draw power. If you have Taunts up, you will get 2-3 cards off of 1 Mana Tide, and your opponent will STILL spend cards to get rid of their effect. Sometimes if I have Taunts on the board and my oponent doesn't have monsters, I'll just play 2 Mana Tides and draw 2 cards lol and my opponent can't stop both.
I like your list. But Earth Shock is too good to only run 1 of, especially with all the better cards (like Acolyte of Pain or Mad Scientist or Shielded Minibot) that can be beaten with Earth Shock. I also think Al'Akir is too slow. I don't try too hard to get Legend, and I'm sure I could. I just don't play much and so I try my best with what I have. I think this is definitely a competitive deck, and I still have changes to make to mine, but I'm just not sure about them yet.
Told in the beginning that 2 of them in a deck is a waste. One is enough, it's a decent card and helps to snowball faster if you're ahead, but a lot of players overrate it. Now when Shaman is played more often and people are more aware of TGT cards, alot of them are sacrifing face damage to clear your totems.
This is 100% correct. I've been in situations where I have Zombie Chow, Haunted Creeper, and totems on the board, and my opponent will ignore Zombie Chow and Haunted Creeper for turn after turn but continuously clear whatever totem(s) I drop. If I had TBV in my hand, it would've been terrible.
But... if they ignore those to clear totems you are already ahead just by the threat of TBV being in the deck. Have you thought about running feral spirit or other early taunts to make it hard to remove the totems?
I see a lot of people complaining they never have the totems, but are not supporting the totems at all , I see most people who have say a totem and a creeper on board on turn 4, not trade the creeper and buff the 2 spider tokens but instead buff the original creeper and the non-taunt totem. Same with things like rockbiter, I see people using rockbiter on totems and using them to clear instead of their face or another minion.
At the same time, I personally feel that TBV is just flat out better in a more control oriented shaman as well but that just my opinion.
Patron + Warsong: two cards, 8 mana.
Innervate + Force of Nature + Savage Roar: three cards.
Not really much of a comparison, since TBV + hero power is just one card and costs 7 mana. And because it's a different class.
In the worst-case scenario, you're paying 7 mana for 13 stats (1 mana more than you should, but not a disaster) and usually some small bonus (heal, taunt, spell damage). You also have major upside if TBV lives. If there's even one totem on the board when you play TBV + hero power, it's a strong play. Anything more than that is just icing on the cake.
If they ignore the totems, then you should be ahead, period. Regardless of having that card in your deck, you should be pretty well off. Also, if they ignore the totems, they are probably bad players and you shouldn't lose to begin with. Buffing your totems isn't always bad. Sometimes it's your best chance against a Paladin to drop an argus between 2 totems on board and have haunted creeper provide a 3rd attack against his Muster For Battle, than to have a 2/3 creeper and a 1/3 totem and a 0/2 totem. It's just about knowing when to protect your totems and when to buff. But still, in any case, it seems more difficult to keep your totems alive in case of an effective TBV than it does to just have enough minions on board for a big Bloodlust turn.
Patron + Warsong as a viable turn 7 play with a turn 6 Thaurissan. It's actually extremely likely given the draw power that Patron Warrior has. Not only is it likely, it's common. Then, of course, you could add Turn 7+coin, among other things.
Same with how common Force of Nature + Savage Roar plays work. But hey, I could easily just bring up Ancient of War and describe how it'd take 5 Totems to counter that. And that's 5~ totems ALREADY on the board that can attack, because TBV and the Hero Power totem can't actually do anything that turn. Yes, if you have specifically Flametongue + 2 Golems, it'd take less totems, but you're still already in a winning position at that point, no? Hell, with the 5 totems, a Bloodlust would've been better.
"If there's even one totem on the board when you play TBV + hero power, it's a strong play."
Nope. I think that's the kind of mentality that earned Mill Rogue crazy praise when it came out, but it eventually disappeared from constructed. I just don't think TBV+ hero power is at all a good play considering other possible Turn 7 plays for Shaman.
Now you're comparing a three-card combo to a single card. It's apples to oranges.
It's also not "likely" or "common" in any sense of the words. On turn 6, you've only drawn 9 or 10 cards. It is unusual to have Thaurissan in hand on turn 6.