Hmm, I think I'm using my AoEs too early, but against eg. the latest Paladin decks you really need about 5 lightning bolts lol.
I think I'm pretty badly tilted but at the same time my deck needs work, I'll try some of the suggests here and let you guys know how I get on. So close to golden Shaman, can't give up now.
the game became so unpredicted that anything can go well depending on the matchups. yesterday i lost 5 in a row playing druid against this secret paladin and today i won 5 playing control warrior. midrange totem shaman is a good deck it wont dissapearits just that this secret paladin decks or midrange paladin in general are shamans weak matchups
I think there are a good number of cards that can be removed from "Totem Shaman" to adjust to the meta, as well as a few good cards to add.
Potential Changes
Rockbiter Weapon - This card is a pretty efficient removal card, but in the world of aggro, taking damage to remove a creature is not really what I would say is... efficient. Using life as a resource, a midrange deck can buy time with it and Biter is not productive in this sense. Removal like Crackle has a bit more reach when killing creatures, still has a cheap cost, and supplementing a single mana with a lower curve is in a sense, better than just handing aggro more damage.
Flametongue Totem - is just not effective enough. Thunder Bluff Valiant gives you that same mid-late game reach and Totem Golem and Zombie Chow can give you that sticky creature removal that is so handy against aggressive decks. Even Earthen Ring Farseer gives you some game against aggro while maintaining that early aggression and tempo against midrange/control.
Just a few ideas on ways you can constructively adapt the deck, I think those changes could be fairly potent. The Mistcaller can give and get a little more reach with these changes as well.
It's the one off the front page but I took out the flametongues and the rockbiters. Added in gormok because with haunted creepers and totems and tuskar it's not hard to get 4 minions out and then play him, as well as a garrison commander for another early game decent body whose effect is very relevant late game as well. Then added in 2 ancestral knowledge for draw, though those are at the top of the list to be replaced at the moment if they show to be unnecessary or bad. And traded 1 zombie chow for a fireguard as I hate running 2 chows as drawing a second late game is dead, and another 4 drop filled the curve nicely.
Also took out al'akir since no rockbiter to combo with and added in a kodo rider as it synergizes well with the rest of the deck in using hero power and bloodlust with a decent sized board.
I think there are a good number of cards that can be removed from "Totem Shaman" to adjust to the meta, as well as a few good cards to add.
Potential Changes
Rockbiter Weapon - This card is a pretty efficient removal card, but in the world of aggro, taking damage to remove a creature is not really what I would say is... efficient. Using life as a resource, a midrange deck can buy time with it and Biter is not productive in this sense. Removal like Crackle has a bit more reach when killing creatures, still has a cheap cost, and supplementing a single mana with a lower curve is in a sense, better than just handing aggro more damage.
Flametongue Totem - is just not effective enough. Thunder Bluff Valiant gives you that same mid-late game reach and Totem Golem and Zombie Chow can give you that sticky creature removal that is so handy against aggressive decks. Even Earthen Ring Farseer gives you some game against aggro while maintaining that early aggression and tempo against midrange/control.
Just a few ideas on ways you can constructively adapt the deck, I think those changes could be fairly potent. The Mistcaller can give and get a little more reach with these changes as well.
the problem i have cackle is that early game it locks you down to much, you dont wanna fall behind after totem golem has been drop....... and the rockbiter dmg you take i think its neglectable if you are running healing wave..... while i do agree with the flametongue totem. it really depends on having a board presence already
After coming to the painful realisation that Shaman is still not equipped to deal with early game tempo and win a midrange game through value, I have switched my deck to being more aggressive.
The face is the place, to beat the caner you must become the cancer, if they SMorc you down you will Smorc them down more scumbagly than ever before.
In other words take out any value based 6 drop legendaries and healing and replace them with Doomhammr and Bloodlust, and make sure there's a Garrison Commander in there.
Just use these new cards to flood the board better than before, and Bloodlust to win.
Having so much more luck with the deck now. All you need to do is maintain board presence, you don't even need board control, you don't need tempo, you just need to stay alive into the mid-game, chip away at face when you can, spam totems and other tokens, then Bloodlust or Doomhammer+Rockbiter.
How is this different to same old Bloodlust Shaman? Well we have Tuskarr Totemic, Thunder Bluff Valiant and Ancestral Knowledge. That's enough to push this deck toward a consistency sort of similar to combo Druid.
I wish that a good honest Midrange Shaman with Mistcaller was viable, and maybe with work it is, but much as Midrange Paladin with minion spam is simply more efficient right now than Control Pala, so does this seem to be better for Shaman. I tried and tried to make a slower deck work, but I think you'd have to go the whole hog and make a greedy Control Shaman with 2x Healing Wave - there's no in between right now because we still don't have good enough early game tempo cards.
Sometimes I find myself thinking, if only I had Elemental Destruction right now. Might be worth a try?
You're not the only one. I've tried all the new shaman decks and then some, and it's just not working in this paladin meta (rank 5 EU). I never had much trouble climbing with Shaman (usually finish in the top 3 ranks, once I reached Legend too) but boy oh boy has the TGT been unkind to us... :(
Every day is getting worse and worse, I've fallen from rank 6 to rank 10 on a near continuous losing stream. I've tried going more control, I've tried going burst with Bloodlust, I lose not just to the usual suspects like eboladin and zoo, but now even queueing into gimmick decks or random experimental decks, I feel like I'm easy pickings as a Shaman.
Very close to giving up. I played Mech Shaman for 3 months and it was never this bad.
Climbed to rank 8 on another account too with my Midrange Shaman. Deck works well atm. Will continue to 5 in a bit.
EU?
Please post deck list.
Sludge Belchers are mostly the ones which I switch out if needed. Depends on the aggro on the ladder. Haven't had many aggro decks today, so I switched them out for another Thunder Bluff Valiant and Bloodlust.
I also tested the standard midrange one and worked on it quite alot during couple of days, trying out different things. I've also met the standard one on ladder few times and I've beaten it every time. I'll continue working on this deck, but currently this version works decently up to rank 5. Will continue on the ladder next season.
Didn't play ladder in last 2 days, but I have 90% winrate vs any non-paladin decks, and abysmal 20-30% vs paladins(had 2 days in a row where I had 100% winrate vs non-paladins, beating druids, warriors, tempo and 1 freeze mages, priests). However, I met paladins every 3rd game usually, so I was still climbing.
I think I haven't lost a single game to druids since Tgt (match-up that was good, but just got even better), control/dragon warriors are 90% match-up (patron is maybe 60%, but my winrate vs them is 4-1 I think) and vs dragon priest I am 8-1 I believe (I heard some people have problem with that match-up, but maybe it's the way I play vs them, you can outgrind them in the lategame, just don't overextend into lightbomb and win the game with valiant after). Hunters are a better match-up then before, but I feel it's still around 50%, but didn't meet enough of them to judge(only 5 matches, 3-2).
However, if meta goes 50% paladin, I think we shamans will be in a bad spot again.
Btw, any ideas for tech against aggro paladins? I thought of running a copy of wild pyro instead of ooze, or maybe a kezan for tech for secret paladins? Or maybe doomhammer instead of al akir? Or 2 ferals spirits instead of mana tide+ooze?
Didn't play ladder in last 2 days, but I have 90% winrate vs any non-paladin decks, and abysmal 20-30% vs paladins(had 2 days in a row where I had 100% winrate vs non-paladins, beating druids, warriors, tempo and 1 freeze mages, priests). However, I met paladins every 3rd game usually, so I was still climbing.
I think I haven't lost a single game to druids since Tgt(matchup that was good, but just got even better), control/dragon warriors are 90% match-up (patron is maybe 60%, but my winrate vs them is 4-1 I think) and vs dragon priest I am 8-1 I believe( I heard some people have problem with that match-up, but maybe it's the way I play vs them, you can outgrind them in the lategame, just don't overextend into lightbomb and win the game with valiant after).
However, if meta goes 50% paladin, I think we shamans will be in a bad spot again.
Had only 4-5 games vs zoo, went 3-1 I think, that's really a small sample though.
Mulligan hard for your 1/2 drops and 1 mana spells and storm (storm alone isn't good enough though), and play on curve always is all I can really say. Don't be afraid to even drop valiant on turn 5 if there is no better 5 drop in your hand. If I get chow+golem+tuscar hand and I have the coin, I play coin->golem if they go turn 1 voidwalker (and then chow), otherwise I go chow->golem->coin tucsar. Also plays that give you more board presence are usually better(if you have a choice), 2 drop+3 drop(apart from mana tide which is a desperation play vs zoo) instead of 5 drop for example, unless playing those would give you worse trades of course. I also don't save earthshocks for more valuable targets usually, and try to get 1 for 1 with any of their early game minions I can so I keep up in tempo. However don't play earthshock if you can't finish of a target that turn(unless it's an egg or huge void terror), it's way better to develop minions instead.
Hmm, I think I'm using my AoEs too early, but against eg. the latest Paladin decks you really need about 5 lightning bolts lol.
I think I'm pretty badly tilted but at the same time my deck needs work, I'll try some of the suggests here and let you guys know how I get on. So close to golden Shaman, can't give up now.
the game became so unpredicted that anything can go well depending on the matchups. yesterday i lost 5 in a row playing druid against this secret paladin and today i won 5 playing control warrior. midrange totem shaman is a good deck it wont dissapearits just that this secret paladin decks or midrange paladin in general are shamans weak matchups
tweaked to this, its doing much better now.....
I think there are a good number of cards that can be removed from "Totem Shaman" to adjust to the meta, as well as a few good cards to add.
Potential Changes
Rockbiter Weapon - This card is a pretty efficient removal card, but in the world of aggro, taking damage to remove a creature is not really what I would say is... efficient. Using life as a resource, a midrange deck can buy time with it and Biter is not productive in this sense. Removal like Crackle has a bit more reach when killing creatures, still has a cheap cost, and supplementing a single mana with a lower curve is in a sense, better than just handing aggro more damage.
Flametongue Totem - is just not effective enough. Thunder Bluff Valiant gives you that same mid-late game reach and Totem Golem and Zombie Chow can give you that sticky creature removal that is so handy against aggressive decks. Even Earthen Ring Farseer gives you some game against aggro while maintaining that early aggression and tempo against midrange/control.
Just a few ideas on ways you can constructively adapt the deck, I think those changes could be fairly potent. The Mistcaller can give and get a little more reach with these changes as well.
Here is the list I am currently trying:
It's the one off the front page but I took out the flametongues and the rockbiters. Added in gormok because with haunted creepers and totems and tuskar it's not hard to get 4 minions out and then play him, as well as a garrison commander for another early game decent body whose effect is very relevant late game as well. Then added in 2 ancestral knowledge for draw, though those are at the top of the list to be replaced at the moment if they show to be unnecessary or bad. And traded 1 zombie chow for a fireguard as I hate running 2 chows as drawing a second late game is dead, and another 4 drop filled the curve nicely.
Also took out al'akir since no rockbiter to combo with and added in a kodo rider as it synergizes well with the rest of the deck in using hero power and bloodlust with a decent sized board.
the problem i have cackle is that early game it locks you down to much, you dont wanna fall behind after totem golem has been drop....... and the rockbiter dmg you take i think its neglectable if you are running healing wave..... while i do agree with the flametongue totem. it really depends on having a board presence already
After coming to the painful realisation that Shaman is still not equipped to deal with early game tempo and win a midrange game through value, I have switched my deck to being more aggressive.
The face is the place, to beat the caner you must become the cancer, if they SMorc you down you will Smorc them down more scumbagly than ever before.
In other words take out any value based 6 drop legendaries and healing and replace them with Doomhammr and Bloodlust, and make sure there's a Garrison Commander in there.
Just use these new cards to flood the board better than before, and Bloodlust to win.
Here it is:
Having so much more luck with the deck now. All you need to do is maintain board presence, you don't even need board control, you don't need tempo, you just need to stay alive into the mid-game, chip away at face when you can, spam totems and other tokens, then Bloodlust or Doomhammer+Rockbiter.
How is this different to same old Bloodlust Shaman? Well we have Tuskarr Totemic, Thunder Bluff Valiant and Ancestral Knowledge. That's enough to push this deck toward a consistency sort of similar to combo Druid.
I wish that a good honest Midrange Shaman with Mistcaller was viable, and maybe with work it is, but much as Midrange Paladin with minion spam is simply more efficient right now than Control Pala, so does this seem to be better for Shaman. I tried and tried to make a slower deck work, but I think you'd have to go the whole hog and make a greedy Control Shaman with 2x Healing Wave - there's no in between right now because we still don't have good enough early game tempo cards.
Sometimes I find myself thinking, if only I had Elemental Destruction right now. Might be worth a try?
You're not the only one. I've tried all the new shaman decks and then some, and it's just not working in this paladin meta (rank 5 EU). I never had much trouble climbing with Shaman (usually finish in the top 3 ranks, once I reached Legend too) but boy oh boy has the TGT been unkind to us... :(
Every day is getting worse and worse, I've fallen from rank 6 to rank 10 on a near continuous losing stream. I've tried going more control, I've tried going burst with Bloodlust, I lose not just to the usual suspects like eboladin and zoo, but now even queueing into gimmick decks or random experimental decks, I feel like I'm easy pickings as a Shaman.
Very close to giving up. I played Mech Shaman for 3 months and it was never this bad.
Climbed to rank 8 on another account too with my Midrange Shaman. Deck works well atm. Will continue to 5 in a bit.
EU?
Please post deck list.
Sludge Belchers are mostly the ones which I switch out if needed. Depends on the aggro on the ladder. Haven't had many aggro decks today, so I switched them out for another Thunder Bluff Valiant and Bloodlust.
I also tested the standard midrange one and worked on it quite alot during couple of days, trying out different things. I've also met the standard one on ladder few times and I've beaten it every time. I'll continue working on this deck, but currently this version works decently up to rank 5. Will continue on the ladder next season.
I am currently rank 2.
Didn't play ladder in last 2 days, but I have 90% winrate vs any non-paladin decks, and abysmal 20-30% vs paladins(had 2 days in a row where I had 100% winrate vs non-paladins, beating druids, warriors, tempo and 1 freeze mages, priests). However, I met paladins every 3rd game usually, so I was still climbing.
I think I haven't lost a single game to druids since Tgt (match-up that was good, but just got even better), control/dragon warriors are 90% match-up (patron is maybe 60%, but my winrate vs them is 4-1 I think) and vs dragon priest I am 8-1 I believe (I heard some people have problem with that match-up, but maybe it's the way I play vs them, you can outgrind them in the lategame, just don't overextend into lightbomb and win the game with valiant after). Hunters are a better match-up then before, but I feel it's still around 50%, but didn't meet enough of them to judge(only 5 matches, 3-2).
However, if meta goes 50% paladin, I think we shamans will be in a bad spot again.
My decklist(have ooze instead of 1 creeper):
Edit: Forgot to mention, I am 100% in shaman mirrors, but haven't seen many shamans after first 2 days of tgt.
Btw, any ideas for tech against aggro paladins? I thought of running a copy of wild pyro instead of ooze, or maybe a kezan for tech for secret paladins? Or maybe doomhammer instead of al akir? Or 2 ferals spirits instead of mana tide+ooze?
Haven't had any problems vs aggro paladins with my version, unless I draw really bad, but the secret ones are annoying as f**k.
I'm really keen to get up to rank 2, do you have a good win rate vs zoo?
Do you have any specific tips, I wonder if I'm just playing the deck wrong
Had only 4-5 games vs zoo, went 3-1 I think, that's really a small sample though.
Mulligan hard for your 1/2 drops and 1 mana spells and storm (storm alone isn't good enough though), and play on curve always is all I can really say. Don't be afraid to even drop valiant on turn 5 if there is no better 5 drop in your hand. If I get chow+golem+tuscar hand and I have the coin, I play coin->golem if they go turn 1 voidwalker (and then chow), otherwise I go chow->golem->coin tucsar. Also plays that give you more board presence are usually better(if you have a choice), 2 drop+3 drop(apart from mana tide which is a desperation play vs zoo) instead of 5 drop for example, unless playing those would give you worse trades of course. I also don't save earthshocks for more valuable targets usually, and try to get 1 for 1 with any of their early game minions I can so I keep up in tempo. However don't play earthshock if you can't finish of a target that turn(unless it's an egg or huge void terror), it's way better to develop minions instead.
why u call it totem shaman, its just mindless vomiting everything u can on board, and even after full clear, ull fill it again next turn.
same category as face hunter or aggro paladin, midnless play
Go and try it playing like a face deck, see what happens.