Everyone loves playing mill rogue. Especially when it works but since we play a funny deck, defeats are easier to handle.
Mill rogue is the most aggressive mill deck and can absolutely stomp any deck with a good starting hand and early draws. Rogue has TONS of tools helpful with milling :
Let's see the list...that's already more than 30 cards. Without any removals, battlecry minions to combo with Vanish, finishers with charge, anything...
That's what I wanted to discuss about. What are the MUST HAVE milling cards? How many removals should we run without weakening our milling power? What are the best finishers ? Huge & cheap minions (Clockwork Giant), charge minions ( Leeroy Jenkins (+ Shadowstep? )) or board block ( Trogg + Cho/Gally combo) ?
If we answer some of those question, we could maybe make our mill decks more consistent.
Coldlight Oracle: The hard rule is never ever leave one on the board unless you have no choice. If things are going really poorly, drop it and see if you can pull what you need.
Vanish: In this deck two are needed. It resets the board and sometimes clears the board. If your opponent has crappy small minions, vanish and then coldlight combo to burn them. If they have a great board with huge taunts and legendaries, coldlight combo and then vanish to toast their board. Sometimes their board may represent 4-5 turns of mana being spent that they can't just put back in one turn.
Sap: Need two, insanely good card, use it to stall the game out or reset a buffed minion. Destorys any minion sapped into a full hand.
Shadowstep: Besides the Coldlight combo to draw 4 or 6, it works well with Healbot, Deathlord, Loatheb, Leeroy and Mukla.
Youthful Brewmaster: Need two. They are fairly cheap and in this deck you need all the bounce you can get.
Deathlord: Really weak against Priest, but destroys Hunter and suits the mill strategy. Also cancels battlecrys on Healbots, Jaraxxus, etc.
Dancing Swords: Need two. Great stats for the cost, good vs aggro, and an absolute win condition if the game goes to fatigue. I always keep one in a mullligan vs Priest.
Loatheb: Keeps cards in their hand. Double and triple Loatheb is sometimes a great play, you can sometimes get some great trades or face damage before the shadowstep.
King Mukla: Really shines in this deck. He can take the place of a coldlight, and I have used him to give out 6 bananas before. Make sure you have a Sap or Vanish ready before handing out all the fruit though.
Trade Prince Gallywix: I run TPG for fun, but he really works well in this deck. Huge stats for 6 mana, and he discourages spell use. Play him after Mukla and you get the bananas.
Antique Healbot: I'm currently using two, but with all the bounces maybe one would work. In my best game I dropped 8 Healbots. In this deck you don't always have an answer, so health is key to stall things out.
Clockwork Giant: Need two. Great to drop for 2 mana after a big vanish. Does tend to draw removal, but on the other hand if there's no answer, the game is over quickly.
Lorewalker Cho: I added him to the deck because he's cheap, he draws removal and works very well with other combos. Deathlord is weak to shadow word pain, so playing Cho behind it at least gets us the spell. Also playing Cho first before a big vanish combo can be absolutely awesome. Cho>Backstab>Prep>Vanish>Cho can make the Vanish combo more lethal by giving them 3 spells before the Vanish. Then they have 3 of our spells that we get back if they try to unload them. Cho also has great synergy with Mukla as we can get our bananas back. If playing a combo, use eviscerate before dropping Cho as that's the only spell we don't want to give away. Sap, Vanish, Prep are fine and Backstab is worth trading for one of their cards being burned.
Van Cleef. Coin>Backstab>VC>Backstab on VC>Shadowstep>VC is a 12/12 on turn 3. Also good to just coin out as a 4/4 on turn 2.
Leeroy: Good as a finisher, breaks taunts, and puts two crappy minions on the board that can be vanished into their hand. Combos well with Shadowstep for 12 damage.
Cards I haven't used:
Goblin Sapper: Strong against Paladin(reducing it's attack to 1 effectively reduces it to 5 vs 6), I'd like to use one but I don't know what I would drop.
Troggzor: I have thought about using him in place of the second Healbot, but his cost is high and creating minions on the board doesn't suit our strategy with vanish. He does have good synergy with Cho and Gallywix so I may try to find a place for him.
Kidnapper: Cost is way too high. With shadowsteps, pandas and vanish we have 6-9 bounces depending on pandas being vanished, plus our Saps. For a 6 drop Gallywix has a much bigger impact.
Anub'ar Ambusher: No room, effect is too random and we have enough bounce.
I haven't used any deadly poisons/blade flurrys because it moves away from the core of the deck. However it's very important to hero power and go to face whenever you have a dead turn early on, as many games are won or lost by a single point of health.
Mulligans:
Always keep one Coldlight.
Hunter: Deathlord, Shadowstep, Dancing Swords, Van Cleef with Coin,
Mage: Deathlord, Cho, Backstab
Priest: Dancing Swords, Shadowstep,
Warrior: Deathlord,
Druid: Backstab, Eviscerate, Deathlord
Rogue: Backstab, Cho, Deathlord
Warlock: Shadowstep, Eviscerate, Deathlord,
Shaman: Backstab, Dancing Swords, Van Cleef with Coin, Deathlord
Here's my mill rogue deck. With cards like Dancing Swords, King Mukla, Deathlord, Yetis and so on, you have enough early game steam to rule the battlefield even without your Oracles. Indeed if your two oracles are at the very bottom of the deck, it sucks a lot, but it's the same with Control Warrior, Freeze Mage and some other well known and used decks.
Since the Oracles draw for both, I'm not sure how Jeeves would fit in... if things are going well, I usually have 6-7 cards per turn and my opponent has as many or more. And in a fatigue situation, I don't want to be forced to draw.
[card]Elite Tauren Chieftain[/card] just gives one power chord card, and Mechanical Yeti just gives one small spell. Not sure that this has enough of an effect to be a staple in this deck. Something with a powerful battlecry is useful because of the bouncing.
I couldn't play without healbots, it allows you to overextend the enemy board and set them up for a more devastating vanish.
Do really consider like a bigger Mechanical Yeti. The spell given by E.T.C is much stronger but it fills the hand better than Yeti. Your opponent can't just use the Spare Part to get out from the mill range, he has to use 4 mana there (but sometimes he can get something useful). E.T.C is okay but he's absolutely not a must-have.
Seriously, the deck was powerful before... what I love about it is the insane synergy and combos between all the cards. But with Gang Up? Wow. This is going to be a deck to be reckoned with, it will be able to beat anything and come up with new solutions on the fly. The one weakness the deck had was needing to keep Coldlights alive and always bounce them back. Now we just need one and we will have the comfort of knowing more are on the way.
Even two Deathlords can be really hard to deal with. Just played a Druid and I got Deathlord out, got Cho behind it. He got the Deathlord down to 2-3 health, I shadowstepped it. Then Gallywix came out. He kept throwing minions into DL and I kept bouncing it. Eventually got 2 Swipes and 2 Mark of Natures and was able to get fatal with the same DL that I coined out turn 2.
I'm going to try Thaurissian for sure. Skulker I don't see being in mill. 5 mana is a high curve for this deck and there's not a slot open. Also, usually AOE is not wanted in mill, it's good to keep crappy minions alive to vanish back before the burn. Good minions, draw then vanish to toast them.
Although with Gang Up, maybe Skulker can be teched in since we can get 3-6 more of any minion.
I'm weighing Troggzor vs Thaurissian. Troggzor is really, really something else in this deck. He's strong against all classes because we are loading everyone's hand with cheap trash like bananas, coins, shadowsteps and preps. They have to get rid of it and he really punishes them for it. Plus he's a win condition if the game goes late against Mage. It will be interesting to try it out but we are really pressed for space here.
I'm weighing Troggzor vs Thaurissian. Troggzor is really, really something else in this deck. He's strong against all classes because we are loading everyone's hand with cheap trash like bananas, coins, shadowsteps. They have to get rid of it and he really punishes them for it. Plus he's a win condition if the game goes late against Mage.
Is there any reason no one tried Mountain Giants alongside Clockwork Giants? They can't BGH them all and pushing a truckload of undercosted minions into the face seems like a reliable plan. You cound even maybe switch roles from Iclickyourfacewithmygiants to board control considering how much of that we have?
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Everyone loves playing mill rogue. Especially when it works but since we play a funny deck, defeats are easier to handle.
Mill rogue is the most aggressive mill deck and can absolutely stomp any deck with a good starting hand and early draws.
Rogue has TONS of tools helpful with milling :
Class cards :
Sap
Vanish
Shadowstep
Kidnapper
?? Preparation ??
?? Edwin VanCleef ?? (tempo plz)
Neutral cards :
Youthful Brewmaster
Dancing Swords
Deathlord
King Mukla
Coldlight Oracle
Goblin Sapper
Mechanical Yeti
Ancient Brewmaster
Elite Tauren Chieftain
Clockwork Giant
Eventual combos with Troggzor the Earthinator, Lorewalker Cho, Trade Prince Gallywix
Let's see the list...that's already more than 30 cards. Without any removals, battlecry minions to combo with Vanish, finishers with charge, anything...
That's what I wanted to discuss about. What are the MUST HAVE milling cards? How many removals should we run without weakening our milling power? What are the best finishers ? Huge & cheap minions (Clockwork Giant), charge minions ( Leeroy Jenkins (+ Shadowstep? )) or board block ( Trogg + Cho/Gally combo) ?
If we answer some of those question, we could maybe make our mill decks more consistent.
( ◜◡‾)Dr. Balance reporting in ! (‾◡◝ )
Millrogue is basically shit much worse than mill druid
I love playing Mill Rogue... it's insanely fun win or lose. Here's my decklist:
I'll try to list some things I have learned:
Coldlight Oracle: The hard rule is never ever leave one on the board unless you have no choice. If things are going really poorly, drop it and see if you can pull what you need.
Vanish: In this deck two are needed. It resets the board and sometimes clears the board. If your opponent has crappy small minions, vanish and then coldlight combo to burn them. If they have a great board with huge taunts and legendaries, coldlight combo and then vanish to toast their board. Sometimes their board may represent 4-5 turns of mana being spent that they can't just put back in one turn.
Sap: Need two, insanely good card, use it to stall the game out or reset a buffed minion. Destorys any minion sapped into a full hand.
Shadowstep: Besides the Coldlight combo to draw 4 or 6, it works well with Healbot, Deathlord, Loatheb, Leeroy and Mukla.
Youthful Brewmaster: Need two. They are fairly cheap and in this deck you need all the bounce you can get.
Deathlord: Really weak against Priest, but destroys Hunter and suits the mill strategy. Also cancels battlecrys on Healbots, Jaraxxus, etc.
Dancing Swords: Need two. Great stats for the cost, good vs aggro, and an absolute win condition if the game goes to fatigue. I always keep one in a mullligan vs Priest.
Loatheb: Keeps cards in their hand. Double and triple Loatheb is sometimes a great play, you can sometimes get some great trades or face damage before the shadowstep.
King Mukla: Really shines in this deck. He can take the place of a coldlight, and I have used him to give out 6 bananas before. Make sure you have a Sap or Vanish ready before handing out all the fruit though.
Trade Prince Gallywix: I run TPG for fun, but he really works well in this deck. Huge stats for 6 mana, and he discourages spell use. Play him after Mukla and you get the bananas.
Antique Healbot: I'm currently using two, but with all the bounces maybe one would work. In my best game I dropped 8 Healbots. In this deck you don't always have an answer, so health is key to stall things out.
Clockwork Giant: Need two. Great to drop for 2 mana after a big vanish. Does tend to draw removal, but on the other hand if there's no answer, the game is over quickly.
Lorewalker Cho: I added him to the deck because he's cheap, he draws removal and works very well with other combos. Deathlord is weak to shadow word pain, so playing Cho behind it at least gets us the spell. Also playing Cho first before a big vanish combo can be absolutely awesome. Cho>Backstab>Prep>Vanish>Cho can make the Vanish combo more lethal by giving them 3 spells before the Vanish. Then they have 3 of our spells that we get back if they try to unload them. Cho also has great synergy with Mukla as we can get our bananas back. If playing a combo, use eviscerate before dropping Cho as that's the only spell we don't want to give away. Sap, Vanish, Prep are fine and Backstab is worth trading for one of their cards being burned.
Van Cleef. Coin>Backstab>VC>Backstab on VC>Shadowstep>VC is a 12/12 on turn 3. Also good to just coin out as a 4/4 on turn 2.
Leeroy: Good as a finisher, breaks taunts, and puts two crappy minions on the board that can be vanished into their hand. Combos well with Shadowstep for 12 damage.
Cards I haven't used:
Goblin Sapper: Strong against Paladin(reducing it's attack to 1 effectively reduces it to 5 vs 6), I'd like to use one but I don't know what I would drop.
Troggzor: I have thought about using him in place of the second Healbot, but his cost is high and creating minions on the board doesn't suit our strategy with vanish. He does have good synergy with Cho and Gallywix so I may try to find a place for him.
Kidnapper: Cost is way too high. With shadowsteps, pandas and vanish we have 6-9 bounces depending on pandas being vanished, plus our Saps. For a 6 drop Gallywix has a much bigger impact.
Anub'ar Ambusher: No room, effect is too random and we have enough bounce.
I haven't used any deadly poisons/blade flurrys because it moves away from the core of the deck. However it's very important to hero power and go to face whenever you have a dead turn early on, as many games are won or lost by a single point of health.
Mulligans:
Always keep one Coldlight.
Hunter: Deathlord, Shadowstep, Dancing Swords, Van Cleef with Coin,
Mage: Deathlord, Cho, Backstab
Priest: Dancing Swords, Shadowstep,
Warrior: Deathlord,
Druid: Backstab, Eviscerate, Deathlord
Rogue: Backstab, Cho, Deathlord
Warlock: Shadowstep, Eviscerate, Deathlord,
Shaman: Backstab, Dancing Swords, Van Cleef with Coin, Deathlord
Paladin: Deathlord, Backstab, Dancing Swords
Here's my mill rogue deck.
With cards like Dancing Swords, King Mukla, Deathlord, Yetis and so on, you have enough early game steam to rule the battlefield even without your Oracles.
Indeed if your two oracles are at the very bottom of the deck, it sucks a lot, but it's the same with Control Warrior, Freeze Mage and some other well known and used decks.
( ◜◡‾)Dr. Balance reporting in ! (‾◡◝ )
Is Jeeves really useful?
( ◜◡‾)Dr. Balance reporting in ! (‾◡◝ )
He makes the games tempo a lot faster
Does Elite Tauren Chieftain actually work in mill decks it seems like a good idea as the cards it gives are high mana cost but does it actually work?
Since the Oracles draw for both, I'm not sure how Jeeves would fit in... if things are going well, I usually have 6-7 cards per turn and my opponent has as many or more. And in a fatigue situation, I don't want to be forced to draw.
[card]Elite Tauren Chieftain[/card] just gives one power chord card, and Mechanical Yeti just gives one small spell. Not sure that this has enough of an effect to be a staple in this deck. Something with a powerful battlecry is useful because of the bouncing.
I couldn't play without healbots, it allows you to overextend the enemy board and set them up for a more devastating vanish.
I'm going to try dropping one Healbot for Troggzor... I'll report back with how it goes.
Do really consider like a bigger Mechanical Yeti. The spell given by E.T.C is much stronger but it fills the hand better than Yeti. Your opponent can't just use the Spare Part to get out from the mill range, he has to use 4 mana there (but sometimes he can get something useful).
E.T.C is okay but he's absolutely not a must-have.
( ◜◡‾)Dr. Balance reporting in ! (‾◡◝ )
Gang Up for the win. How insane is this card for mill?
Exactly my thought when I saw this card !
( ◜◡‾)Dr. Balance reporting in ! (‾◡◝ )
Seriously, the deck was powerful before... what I love about it is the insane synergy and combos between all the cards. But with Gang Up? Wow. This is going to be a deck to be reckoned with, it will be able to beat anything and come up with new solutions on the fly. The one weakness the deck had was needing to keep Coldlights alive and always bounce them back. Now we just need one and we will have the comfort of knowing more are on the way.
Can you say 8 Deathlords vs Facehunter? ; )
Even two Deathlords can be really hard to deal with. Just played a Druid and I got Deathlord out, got Cho behind it. He got the Deathlord down to 2-3 health, I shadowstepped it. Then Gallywix came out. He kept throwing minions into DL and I kept bouncing it. Eventually got 2 Swipes and 2 Mark of Natures and was able to get fatal with the same DL that I coined out turn 2.
Now... 4-8 DL's? ; )
Just had a Burly Trogg buffed up to 14/3 with bananas, coins and stuff. I think Troggzor is here to stay.
Surely Emperor Thaurissan and particularly Dark Iron Skulker will have huge value in Mill Rogue? When I've tried this deck reliable AOE has been the problem. The Emperor makes all of your combos better : Coldlight Seer + Antique Healbot + Preparation + Vanish just became 8 mana rather than 11. That's huge!
I'm going to try Thaurissian for sure. Skulker I don't see being in mill. 5 mana is a high curve for this deck and there's not a slot open. Also, usually AOE is not wanted in mill, it's good to keep crappy minions alive to vanish back before the burn. Good minions, draw then vanish to toast them.
Although with Gang Up, maybe Skulker can be teched in since we can get 3-6 more of any minion.
I'm weighing Troggzor vs Thaurissian. Troggzor is really, really something else in this deck. He's strong against all classes because we are loading everyone's hand with cheap trash like bananas, coins, shadowsteps and preps. They have to get rid of it and he really punishes them for it. Plus he's a win condition if the game goes late against Mage. It will be interesting to try it out but we are really pressed for space here.
I'm weighing Troggzor vs Thaurissian. Troggzor is really, really something else in this deck. He's strong against all classes because we are loading everyone's hand with cheap trash like bananas, coins, shadowsteps. They have to get rid of it and he really punishes them for it. Plus he's a win condition if the game goes late against Mage.
Is there any reason no one tried Mountain Giants alongside Clockwork Giants?
They can't BGH them all and pushing a truckload of undercosted minions into the face seems like a reliable plan.
You cound even maybe switch roles from Iclickyourfacewithmygiants to board control considering how much of that we have?