please senpai tell me what is the shaman draw engine
That would be a well protected, singleton, Mana Tide Totem. Honestly if Shaman had any better card draw engine they would be unstoppable.
I honestly think the next nerf will be to Undertaker making him a 1/1 and gain +1/+1 with each deathrattle card. Small but very necessary nerf. It's that big butt of his that's so OP. Either that or they just give him firebreathing like Mana Wyrm.
I think they should add an anti-beast-card in the next expansion, and we will be fine. Something a 1-1 4-drop saying "battlecry: silence all beasts and kill them, gain +2 +2 for each beast killed." Super situational, but will keep hunters at bay if they get too popular.
In return, hunters will get some more beasts to play around with.
please senpai tell me what is the shaman draw engine
That would be a well protected, singleton, Mana Tide Totem. Honestly if Shaman had any better card draw engine they would be unstoppable.
I honestly think the next nerf will be to Undertaker making him a 1/1 and gain +1/+1 with each deathrattle card. Small but very necessary nerf. It's that big butt of his that's so OP. Either that or they just give him firebreathing like Mana Wyrm.
The main issues, imo, are that his hp increases in addition to ap. If he stayed at 2 hp, it would be a bit more balanced. And also, that he can be buffed to oblivion with low cost minions. One card that people seem to overlook is Leper Gnome. This disgusting little shit is pretty much a guaranteed 4 damage for 1 mana with 2/1. You don't ever in your life waste a silence or removal on a him, so he's always there to either face damage you or help clear the board with the additional face damage bonus. He should definitely be a 2 drop.
The main issues, imo, are that his hp increases in addition to ap. If he stayed at 2 hp, it would be a bit more balanced. And also, that he can be buffed to oblivion with low cost minions. One card that people seem to overlook is Leper Gnome. This disgusting little shit is pretty much a guaranteed 4 damage for 1 mana with 2/1. You don't ever in your life waste a silence or removal on a him, so he's always there to either face damage you or help clear the board with the additional face damage bonus. He should definitely be a 2 drop.
I have Ironbeak Owled that little dude plenty of times playing handlock, it is quite often necessary to avoid being killed... However, with Undertaker giving him more use, I think he would still be playable as a 1-1.
That would be a well protected, singleton, Mana Tide Totem. Honestly if Shaman had any better card draw engine they would be unstoppable.
I honestly think the next nerf will be to Undertaker making him a 1/1 and gain +1/+1 with each deathrattle card. Small but very necessary nerf. It's that big butt of his that's so OP. Either that or they just give him firebreathing like Mana Wyrm.
The main issues, imo, are that his hp increases in addition to ap. If he stayed at 2 hp, it would be a bit more balanced. And also, that he can be buffed to oblivion with low cost minions. One card that people seem to overlook is Leper Gnome. This disgusting little shit is pretty much a guaranteed 4 damage for 1 mana with 2/1. You don't ever in your life waste a silence or removal on a him, so he's always there to either face damage you or help clear the board with the additional face damage bonus. He should definitely be a 2 drop.
Abit different than most people here, I find Undertaker not a big problem. Indeed he is powerful, but not broken IMO. What I find really annoying is the 0 mana Hunter's Mark, 1 mana Flare, and OP hero power that simply put your opp in clock just by using your hero power
nope there is no counter to Handlock and Zoo literally. No matter and no connection o hunter.
Handlock got too much tools now. Basically if you dont kill him until turn 6+8 he wins easily.
Same Zoo if you won't stop early aggro
Wait what..? Handlock is countered easily by hunter.
As for zoo; zoo doesn't have a real counter but it also doesn't have a match-up it's favored in either since it's such a common deck on the ladder and one of the biggest benchmarks people use in deck-building is whether their deck has the toolkit to beat zoo or not.
Your 2nd point is valid, even though you compare a neutral card to class cards, there are no 1-3 neutrals out there yet, for a reason.
As for Leper Gnome not being played it deathrattle decks, you are obviously not on top of the meta! There are popular cancer aggro decks for both druid, mage, hunter and warlock with Leper Gnome deathrattle synergy... Sorry, I had to link the whole decks...
Handlock has a pretty bad matchup against Freeze Mage (Mage in general), Hunter, Paladin, and Shaman. Honestly, I think Handlock has a lot of bad matchups - it's just that the good matchups are really good (Druid, Priest).
Sorry, meant Voidwalker. I do agree that the fact that Undertaker is neutral makes it really good but we're speaking on hypothetical IF's anyway so... My bet would be that IF it get's nerfed it will have a base hp 2 or 3 and gain +1 attack per deathrattle played or +2 attack that turn (like Mana Addict).
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While the nerf was intended to reduce the over-prevalence of hunters in the meta, hunter still occupies an excessively large portion of the ladder even after the nerf. This clearly means that there is a problem. I say the problem is either/or: A)The nerf was wrong/not enough. B)The class itself is badly designed.
Current Deathrattle Aggro Hunter displays an excellent consistency in most matchups and at any rank. Also the games are really fast. If the deck is fast, it has to be less consistent then the slower ones. Being able to benefit from fast games AND consistency at the same time is a bit too unfair. I have no problem with cheap easy-to-make meta decks. But the hunter currently is way too simple and way too consistent. It makes the game monotonous and frustrating to play, therefore sucking the fun out of it.
It is something much more than noobs being able to rank up quickly without much effort into the game. It is directly related to the most important part of the game: fun. Blizz nerfed Mind Control simply because it is frustrating to play against(i.e. not fun). They said they won't add any effects that discard the opponent's hand, because it is not fun getting your hand destroyed by the opponent. Something needs to be done. Be it about Undertaker, Webspinner, or whatever.
I favor taking a different approach to this. Instead of nerfing strong cards, give me an option for dealing with them!
Hunter weapons are very potent with their damage being perpetuated by secrets. Solution A is to throw in an ooze or harrison jones and send it to the museum :)
The problem in my eyes is that there are 3/9 classes with secrets, yet 1/9 classes can remove them! (oddly enough, it's the class that also uses secrets).
Mad scientists and freezing traps would make me significantly less angry if I knew there was something I could do about it. A neutral minion with a 2-4 mana cost that removes at least 1 secret would make me very happy
you can find 20 other examples of class cards beeing very strong, thats why they are class cards. dark cultist 10 stats for 3 mana? soul fire 4 dmg for 0 mana with an average drawback? pretty good i'd say. savannah highmane is not that much better than cairne aswell.
only because hes a finisher, and most hunter games are over before you would even get close to being able to use him. hes too slow of a card for a really fast class. serious highmane almost exact stats are cairne, and its only a rare. if it cost more or the stats were lessened would make a a not so op card for being so easy to obtain
you can find 20 other examples of class cards beeing very strong, thats why they are class cards. dark cultist 10 stats for 3 mana? soul fire 4 dmg for 0 mana with an average drawback? pretty good i'd say. savannah highmane is not that much better than cairne aswell.
But cairne is a legendary...
King Krush is legendary too and yet he's trash
that's because he doesn't fit the hunter archetype. If there were more mid/late game hunters we might see more Krush, but that is a fair point. He is trash :P
Abit different than most people here, I find Undertaker not a big problem. Indeed he is powerful, but not broken IMO. What I find really annoying is the 0 mana Hunter's Mark, 1 mana Flare, and OP hero power that simply put your opp in clock just by using your hero power
2mana freezing trap explosive trap 6 mana Savannah Highmane 2 mana Buffing by secrets weapon.
Mostly I would like to nerf warlock ablity
I expect Handlock nerfs also, way too out of control
Yep that makes sense. Lets nerf Hunter to the ground so there is no hard counter to a handlock anymore and suddenly that deck is overpowered as hell so we need to nerf that too.
Thats what I call balancing at it's finest.
Adding a neutral card that can destroy secrets would be the first thing I'd do. Another would be a neutral minion that reacts based upon minions your opponent plays (sort of like a reverse Knife Juggler to counter UTH.
As for warlocks, first and foremost I'd change how discarding with an empty hand works. At the very least it should discard from your deck until the condition is met (other suggestions I've seen, such as making the discard part of its cost (you can't play Soulfire if you don't have another card in your hand) would be going too far). the other thing I'd do is actually give warlock -better- class cards, so that they're not shoehorned into the same three archetypes everyone hates.
Abit different than most people here, I find Undertaker not a big problem. Indeed he is powerful, but not broken IMO. What I find really annoying is the 0 mana Hunter's Mark, 1 mana Flare, and OP hero power that simply put your opp in clock just by using your hero power
2mana freezing trap explosive trap 6 mana Savannah Highmane 2 mana Buffing by secrets weapon.
Mostly I would like to nerf warlock ablity
I expect Handlock nerfs also, way too out of control
Yep that makes sense. Lets nerf Hunter to the ground so there is no hard counter to a handlock anymore and suddenly that deck is overpowered as hell so we need to nerf that too.
Thats what I call balancing at it's finest.
Adding a neutral card that can destroy secrets would be the first thing I'd do. Another would be a neutral minion that reacts based upon minions your opponent plays (sort of like a reverse Knife Juggler to counter UTH.
As for warlocks, first and foremost I'd change how discarding with an empty hand works. At the very least it should discard from your deck until the condition is met (other suggestions I've seen, such as making the discard part of its cost (you can't play Soulfire if you don't have another card in your hand) would be going too far). the other thing I'd do is actually give warlock -better- class cards, so that they're not shoehorned into the same three archetypes everyone hates.
Nice post and explanation. I both agree and disagree with ya. The cards you mentioned are great because they are class cards, just like other class cards.
The only nerf I might think about is the flare, I wish flares could destroy ALL secrets including hunters' own ones.
Hunter's mark is debatable as almost every class has a powerful single-target removal card (priest: SW-P and SW-D; rogue: assasinate; warrior: execute and shield slam; warlock: siphen sould; mage: polymorph; shaman: hex; paladin: equality (AOE as well); druid: pretty much board resources). All of such cost 1-6 mana, but hunter's mark only costs 1. However, I am fine with this because unlike shaman, mage, priest, warior and warlock, casting hunter's mark doesn't kill the targeting minion immediately without any further damage while still leaving the minion alive with full AP. As equality costs 2 mana with AOE, hunter's mark is just the small version of equality, 0-mana is pretty reasonable. I have to say, hunters are nasty and strong but not winnable.
GLHF!
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That would be a well protected, singleton, Mana Tide Totem. Honestly if Shaman had any better card draw engine they would be unstoppable.
I honestly think the next nerf will be to Undertaker making him a 1/1 and gain +1/+1 with each deathrattle card. Small but very necessary nerf. It's that big butt of his that's so OP. Either that or they just give him firebreathing like Mana Wyrm.
Sleeping all day, Rip Van Winkling. Spend my nights in bars, Glasses Tinkling
I think they should add an anti-beast-card in the next expansion, and we will be fine. Something a 1-1 4-drop saying "battlecry: silence all beasts and kill them, gain +2 +2 for each beast killed." Super situational, but will keep hunters at bay if they get too popular.
In return, hunters will get some more beasts to play around with.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The main issues, imo, are that his hp increases in addition to ap. If he stayed at 2 hp, it would be a bit more balanced. And also, that he can be buffed to oblivion with low cost minions. One card that people seem to overlook is Leper Gnome. This disgusting little shit is pretty much a guaranteed 4 damage for 1 mana with 2/1. You don't ever in your life waste a silence or removal on a him, so he's always there to either face damage you or help clear the board with the additional face damage bonus. He should definitely be a 2 drop.
I have Ironbeak Owled that little dude plenty of times playing handlock, it is quite often necessary to avoid being killed... However, with Undertaker giving him more use, I think he would still be playable as a 1-1.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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The thing about Leper Gnome is that he isn't really played in most Deathrattle decks. IfUndertaker didn't get his hp buffed he would have to be a 1/3 to make up for it like Mana Wyrm, Northshire Cleric, Voidcaller etc...
Sleeping all day, Rip Van Winkling. Spend my nights in bars, Glasses Tinkling
Abit different than most people here, I find Undertaker not a big problem. Indeed he is powerful, but not broken IMO. What I find really annoying is the 0 mana Hunter's Mark, 1 mana Flare, and OP hero power that simply put your opp in clock just by using your hero power
Control Paladin really eats the shit out of Handlock. Things balance out. just not enough against hunter who has no real counter.
Wait what..? Handlock is countered easily by hunter.
As for zoo; zoo doesn't have a real counter but it also doesn't have a match-up it's favored in either since it's such a common deck on the ladder and one of the biggest benchmarks people use in deck-building is whether their deck has the toolkit to beat zoo or not.
Your 2nd point is valid, even though you compare a neutral card to class cards, there are no 1-3 neutrals out there yet, for a reason.
As for Leper Gnome not being played it deathrattle decks, you are obviously not on top of the meta! There are popular cancer aggro decks for both druid, mage, hunter and warlock with Leper Gnome deathrattle synergy... Sorry, I had to link the whole decks...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Handlock has a pretty bad matchup against Freeze Mage (Mage in general), Hunter, Paladin, and Shaman. Honestly, I think Handlock has a lot of bad matchups - it's just that the good matchups are really good (Druid, Priest).
Sorry, meant Voidwalker. I do agree that the fact that Undertaker is neutral makes it really good but we're speaking on hypothetical IF's anyway so... My bet would be that IF it get's nerfed it will have a base hp 2 or 3 and gain +1 attack per deathrattle played or +2 attack that turn (like Mana Addict).
Sleeping all day, Rip Van Winkling. Spend my nights in bars, Glasses Tinkling
While the nerf was intended to reduce the over-prevalence of hunters in the meta, hunter still occupies an excessively large portion of the ladder even after the nerf. This clearly means that there is a problem. I say the problem is either/or: A)The nerf was wrong/not enough. B)The class itself is badly designed.
Current Deathrattle Aggro Hunter displays an excellent consistency in most matchups and at any rank. Also the games are really fast. If the deck is fast, it has to be less consistent then the slower ones. Being able to benefit from fast games AND consistency at the same time is a bit too unfair. I have no problem with cheap easy-to-make meta decks. But the hunter currently is way too simple and way too consistent. It makes the game monotonous and frustrating to play, therefore sucking the fun out of it.
It is something much more than noobs being able to rank up quickly without much effort into the game. It is directly related to the most important part of the game: fun. Blizz nerfed Mind Control simply because it is frustrating to play against(i.e. not fun). They said they won't add any effects that discard the opponent's hand, because it is not fun getting your hand destroyed by the opponent. Something needs to be done. Be it about Undertaker, Webspinner, or whatever.
Put your faith in the Lock. *Desideratus Bellum*
I favor taking a different approach to this. Instead of nerfing strong cards, give me an option for dealing with them!
Hunter weapons are very potent with their damage being perpetuated by secrets. Solution A is to throw in an ooze or harrison jones and send it to the museum :)
The problem in my eyes is that there are 3/9 classes with secrets, yet 1/9 classes can remove them! (oddly enough, it's the class that also uses secrets).
Mad scientists and freezing traps would make me significantly less angry if I knew there was something I could do about it. A neutral minion with a 2-4 mana cost that removes at least 1 secret would make me very happy
But cairne is a legendary...
This is statement is false.
Handlock is easy. My shaman control has a 80/20 ratio against them.
This is statement is false.
King Krush is legendary too and yet he's trash
only because hes a finisher, and most hunter games are over before you would even get close to being able to use him. hes too slow of a card for a really fast class. serious highmane almost exact stats are cairne, and its only a rare. if it cost more or the stats were lessened would make a a not so op card for being so easy to obtain
that's because he doesn't fit the hunter archetype. If there were more mid/late game hunters we might see more Krush, but that is a fair point. He is trash :P
This is statement is false.
Adding a neutral card that can destroy secrets would be the first thing I'd do. Another would be a neutral minion that reacts based upon minions your opponent plays (sort of like a reverse Knife Juggler to counter UTH.
As for warlocks, first and foremost I'd change how discarding with an empty hand works. At the very least it should discard from your deck until the condition is met (other suggestions I've seen, such as making the discard part of its cost (you can't play Soulfire if you don't have another card in your hand) would be going too far). the other thing I'd do is actually give warlock -better- class cards, so that they're not shoehorned into the same three archetypes everyone hates.
Three? Handlock, Zoo and what else?
This is statement is false.
Nice post and explanation. I both agree and disagree with ya. The cards you mentioned are great because they are class cards, just like other class cards.
The only nerf I might think about is the flare, I wish flares could destroy ALL secrets including hunters' own ones.
Hunter's mark is debatable as almost every class has a powerful single-target removal card (priest: SW-P and SW-D; rogue: assasinate; warrior: execute and shield slam; warlock: siphen sould; mage: polymorph; shaman: hex; paladin: equality (AOE as well); druid: pretty much board resources). All of such cost 1-6 mana, but hunter's mark only costs 1. However, I am fine with this because unlike shaman, mage, priest, warior and warlock, casting hunter's mark doesn't kill the targeting minion immediately without any further damage while still leaving the minion alive with full AP. As equality costs 2 mana with AOE, hunter's mark is just the small version of equality, 0-mana is pretty reasonable. I have to say, hunters are nasty and strong but not winnable.
GLHF!