I'm actually addressing some issues and I'd like to hear people's opinion on the points I made
I figured this would make for interesting discussion. Apparently there's not an audience here mature enough for a normal debate.
Your original post is written as if what you are stating are facts. Which is is not. It is your opinion. You word your posts like you are some kind of Hearthstone MLG pro. Yet you havent even broken past rank 5. It seems like you think you know it all, when clearly you have much yet to learn about the game.
Thus I get annoyed and reply with "snarky" posts. Had you been wording yourself differently then constructive debate might have taken place.
Oh, so you're the sensitive type? :)
Not very well adviced to get mad at a random internet forum post. Waste of energy, mate.
Well, I take it that since you still can only resort to insults and not address a single point, you can feel ,ore than free to not contribute. Pretty easy solution.
I've played HS since Naxx came out, so I sure do hope that I have a lot to learn :) You seem to going back to insulting my rank. Rank 6 isn't bad for a month of experience. Your anger is probably a reflection of how poorly you're doing yourseld in the ranked ladder, which is really sad.
If you'd like to contribute with something that actually argues the point(s), you can of course feel free to do so, but something tells me that's not likely to happen :)
Good huntin' Rexxar.
Personal insults is always the best way to go when you are losing an argument, eh? You asked why people wouldnt give you serious answers, I replied. But I guess you don't consider anything that isn't exactly what you want to hear to be "addressing your points". Oh well, I guess you're right. I should not waste any more energy on a pointless troll.
I'm actually addressing some issues and I'd like to hear people's opinion on the points I made
I figured this would make for interesting discussion. Apparently there's not an audience here mature enough for a normal debate.
Your original post is written as if what you are stating are facts. Which is is not. It is your opinion. You word your posts like you are some kind of Hearthstone MLG pro. Yet you havent even broken past rank 5. It seems like you think you know it all, when clearly you have much yet to learn about the game.
Thus I get annoyed and reply with "snarky" posts. Had you been wording yourself differently then constructive debate might have taken place.
Oh, so you're the sensitive type? :)
Not very well adviced to get mad at a random internet forum post. Waste of energy, mate.
Well, I take it that since you still can only resort to insults and not address a single point, you can feel ,ore than free to not contribute. Pretty easy solution.
I've played HS since Naxx came out, so I sure do hope that I have a lot to learn :) You seem to going back to insulting my rank. Rank 6 isn't bad for a month of experience. Your anger is probably a reflection of how poorly you're doing yourseld in the ranked ladder, which is really sad.
If you'd like to contribute with something that actually argues the point(s), you can of course feel free to do so, but something tells me that's not likely to happen :)
Good huntin' Rexxar.
Personal insults is always the best way to go when you are losing an argument, eh? You asked why people wouldnt give you serious answers, I replied. But I guess you don't consider anything that isn't exactly what you want to hear to be "addressing your points". Oh well, I guess you're right. I should not waste any more energy on a pointless troll.
But me and many others believe this is not enough. Buzzard/Uth is obviously broken and the nerf is warranted.
But I don't see this as enough. Webspinners are ridiculous. 1 mana to trade a 1/1 for any random beast available in the game. No one in thier right mind will waste a silence on it, so it's always a no-brainer to just toss it right out there.
Animal Companion. 3 mana to get either 4/2 charge, 4/4 taunt or 2/4 +1AP to all minions. Again, guaranteed profit card. No-brainer, just slap it out there.
Savannah Highmane. Better than most legendaries. If this card would be a neutral legendary card, everyone who could afford it, would craft it.
Hunters mark. ZERO mana to dump HP of a minion to 1. Zero mana. Needless to say, this card is just screaming to get nerfed.
Flare. Remove stealth. Draw a card. Destroy all enemy secrets. All that in one card? Must have a hogh cost, right?! Nah, 1 mana.
Secrets: This is imo the biggest problem, by far. Cheap. COMPLETE game changer. Cripples the opponent massively and just bars so many moves. Absolutely horroble to go against. And the only class that have secret removals are hunters themselves.
These cards are all way too strong. I've played hunter to Rank 6 w/o legendaries or epics. It's absolutely mind numbingly easy. Basically just toss out whatever you've got on hand and profit. No-brainer cards through and through. So cheap to get a super solid deck.
So my question is, what will they nerf next? I'm hoping for secrets mostly. That wouöd somewhat make it a bit more fair.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Edit: Not sure why this was sibjected as deck release. Not a very smartphone/tablet friendly website to use.
Animal Companion: RNG based, sometimes you get leok when you need huffer, sometimes misha shows up. Its got good value but not crazy value because you cant guarantee the card you are getting.
Highmane: as has been stated, great value but claiming he would be a staple as a neutral legendary is a poor arguement. Take a lot of class rares and epics and make them neutral legendaries and you would see them played across the board.
Hunters mark: A very strong card, mostly combined with UTH. Still a two for one trade and hunters dont have a ton of direct removal.
Flare: A dead card against a lot of classes and decks. Does nothing against warrior and warlock other than cycle the deck and kill a mana crystal.
Secrets: They have to be played more carefully than you think. Any player worth their salt knows how to play around them, sometimes they can put you in an uncomfortable situation anyways. Explosive can simply do nothing, freezing can get procked by something they want back in their hand. Snakes is going to be less of an issue with buzzard being essentially lame. Misdirect is hideously unreliable and snipe might have merit simply because no one expects it right now.
Plenty of decent decks dont use legendaries. Zoo being the strongest example.
I've been playing since early open beta. My views on classes, cards and strategy have changed drastically since starting. Give it time, especially with Hunter already being nerfed, its way too early to speculate if another nerf to them is warranted given we have zero experience with nerfed buzzard meta.
Also your title is slightly misleading, it says "next nerf" but you clearly mean "next hunter nerf."
Cool thread.. I suggest they arrest whomever tries to play Hunter next!
That's a great idea! In fact, since so many people are complaining about it we should just get rid of hunter from hearthstone! Hunter 2 strong 4 u @lellstjithole.
OMG, you got ALL THE WAY TO RANK 6?! Hunter MUST be broken then. I find it telling that you didn't get to legend. Calling for more nerfs is much easier than figuring out how to beat a powerful strategy isn't it?
That's the whole point. A Hunter has no strategy. Every card is just play-to-profit. No thought process or repercussions for bad play. Every card is just a no-brainer and secrets are way too powerful and cheap.
Getting to rank 6 is quite an effort. Or rather, should be quite an effort. That's where I usually stand with Shaman, Paladin, Rogue or Handlock. As you might have seen in the recent Blizzard post, you can see that a fairly low % or players reach that high.
It's incredibly easy to play Hunter. It's exactly like in World of Warcraft. Blizzard has managed to make the classes very similar to the game they originated from. Tip my hat in that regard. But I would love to see the hunter class actually become a class that would, like you said, require an actual strategy.
In my opinion traps actually arent that hard to deal with. Especially if mad scientist is just mindlessly dropped on turn 2. Then you take a 1/1 or 1/2 useless mob and pop something that could potentially turn the tide later.
And I disagree that hunters just drop their hand and get instant value. Following that line of logic I could just drop two timber wolves and a webspinner and be in good position,but in reality it will only get blown away by the AOE that almost every class possesses. Hunter takes strategy like anything, but with this nerf all the kids that sit on streams waiting for an OP deck to come around with be shit out of luck, and that much easier to farm on.
Rather than join in on all the rank bashing, I don't really think hunter needs any of those cards nerfed atm. The buzzard combo was broken and needed a nerf the other cards while good imo are fine how they are.
To quote Trump about the nerf 'I think hunter is dead' and 'i think hunter is gone, poof' .. So I think Hunter already did get removed :p
Agreed, but with the new expansion coming, hunter might make a comeback. And then get promptly nerfed again by bliz because of the haters and so the cycle repeats.
I'm actually addressing some issues and I'd like to hear people's opinion on the points I made
I figured this would make for interesting discussion. Apparently there's not an audience here mature enough for a normal debate.
Your original post is written as if what you are stating are facts. Which is is not. It is your opinion. You word your posts like you are some kind of Hearthstone MLG pro. Yet you havent even broken past rank 5. It seems like you think you know it all, when clearly you have much yet to learn about the game.
Thus I get annoyed and reply with "snarky" posts. Had you been wording yourself differently then constructive debate might have taken place.
Dude has gotten a lot closer to making a real argument than anything you've offered. FYI.
Hunter is absolutely broken, the whole class should just be removed by Blizzard. Next, we work Warlock, then Priest and Paladin. The only class that shouldn't be removed is Shaman because they just have that sucky Mana Tide Totem to draw cards.
Why am I not suprised that 9/10 comments are just snarky remarks and flaming?
I'm actually addressing some issues and I'd like to hear people's opinion on the points I made. Who cares about your anonymous insults? I don't. So they're just a waste of time.
Is it possible to get one reply that's at least a tad serious? Why are you so mad? It's not like I've presented a case to a judge and you're on the ropes. Blizzard don't give a damn about what people post here. Just like they didn't care about ArenaJunkies back in the day. You don't have to defend the hunter class, just to defend it. But if you do, please try to make a valid point countering my opinions.
I figured this would make for interesting discussion. Apparently there's not an audience here mature enough for a normal debate.
You're asking for more nerfs on the hunter forum after the class was basically made unplayable only a few hours ago. What do you expect?
What prediction...? That people who enjoy playing a class; still play it after a nerf..? Holy crap! Could you lend me your amazing foresight for the next lotto i'll play? I'll surely win now!
What prediction...? That people who enjoy playing a class; still play it after a nerf..? Holy crap! Could you lend me your amazing foresight for the next lotto i'll play? I'll surely win now!
omfg a class is still played after a nerf...i tought the nerf meant to destroy it and make it completly unplayable...plz blizzard nerf hunter again and make it unplayable so this guy could enjoy his game
Dear 12 y/o superskilled unbiased hunter players. I'm referring to the fact that the issue was never with buzzard, but mainly in secrets and everything surrounding play around secrets and their low mana cost vs. consequences (that don't exist).
Undertaker isn't a hunter problem though. It's a problem in the meta, period. These aggro-decks that are built entirely around it are absolutely ridiculous and Blizz should nerf it.
I think hunter is still a little unbalanced. hero power is very strong especially against classes that have no heals like shaman or mage. in my opinion a lot of hunter class cards need tweaks like hunters mark and flare. in general i think most 0 mana cost cards that are playable (not looking at you wisp) are overpowered in the sense that they need to have an affect on mana efficiency. If hunters mark cost only 2 or even one that makes a huge difference with hunter since almost all their cards are already cheap for their effect and stats (animal companion, savanna, webspinner...etc). and flare is just ridiculous. serious 1 mana for secret removal,stealth removal and drawing a card. if it were a choice between the three when you play it then 1 mana is ok. but all 3 effects for 1 mana is incredible powerful (seriously highmane 10/9 stats for 6 mana. better than almost every legendary). the hunter class is built in a way that its cards are cheap enough that the hero power can be used almost every turn during/after mid game.
on the other hand i think cards like kill command are balanced. by itself not a great card 3 mana deal 3 damage unless you have a beast.
i think scav. hyena is actually balanced now with buzzard and unleash nerf.
i played a decent amount of hunter before i realized it was no fun. and you think about it almost every class/deck has a counter except hunter decks.( i think from its hero power and cheap cards) thats just my opinion, but i think the class needs tweaks in order to be balanced.
dear rank 20 player please stop complaining about hunter and play a counter to it. And I think I am a skilled player since for now I m rank 2 with Priest, not Hunter.
thats the problem. there is no real counter to hunter. only decks that have a similar deckbuild and playstyle that comes out with a 50/50 chance of win or loss. thats the problem.
priest is the only class that is fast enough to deal with hunter and not take damge fast enough to die in like 5 turns because of heals. thats why it has a better match up against hunter but it is definitely not a counter to hunter
priest is the only class that is fast enough to deal with hunter and not take damge fast enough to die in like 5 turns because of heals. thats why it has a better match up against hunter but it is definitely not a counter to hunter
Exactly. By no means a counter at all, but it's a match up I would call "least unfavorable". It's hilarious to see someone bragging about rank 2 with priest Btw.
Currently running Shaman with chows and if I draw them really early together with an earth shock, I can get in a good place and establish board control.
I still believe that secrets with their low mana cost and complete tempo switch is still the biggest problem. Freezing trap, Snake trap and Explosive Trap are way too strong for their mana cost and the fact that there's no repurcussion at all for playing them, is disgusting.
Hunter is exactly like it was/is in WoW. A class for people not good enough to play a real class, that can make them feel like they can play.
I'm no hot shot. I took hunter to rank 3 w/o an ounce of effort. Currently rank 5 with Shaman and putting 100 x times to effort in on every game.
They'll get nerfed again hopefully. I'm sure blizzard won't ignore the numbers forever.
Undertaker Undertaker Undertaker and Undertaker. Top 1
Hunter Mark Savannah HIghmane
also Mad Scientist got too good effect comparing to stats
Also Freezi trap got TOO GOOD effect for its cost and tempo
Seriously? So basically you want to nerf pretty much everything that makes hunter playable? I get it, people do not like hunters but seriously you got to keep the balance in mind before making such suggestions.
The class in general isn't even overpowered or something like that so nerfing a bunch of the most essential cards the class has to offer simply is ridicolous. That being said i do dislike Undertaker quite a lot and think it should simply work like Mana Wyrm but none of the other mentioned cards are in need of a nerf.
Nerfing a card doesn't automatically remove it from the game. I bet you if they would up the mana for all secrets by 1, hunters would be in a much better place, balance wise. Like @YouCantFreezingTrapChuckNorris said. Their strong plays are too cheap, which makes it easy for them to play a solid card (or two) and still slap out that disgusting auto-shot for 2 damage each turn.
Hunters Mark, Mad Scientist (and secrets), Undertaker, Savannah Skillmane aren't what makes hunter "playable". It's what makes them ridiculously unbalanced.
I said it when I created this thread when the buzzard nerf was announced. The buzzard and uth draw mechanic nerf will never be enough. People called me an idiot and the flaming was in full blaze and you can back track the thread yourself and check the "oh, it's not enough that the class is now unplayable?!" which was the general consensus.
Of course that wasn't true and it took less than 2 weeks in to the new season before they dominated the ladder once again.
Again, yes, you can adjust. There isn't a tried and true "hunter counter" out there. There's priest, who does decent against them. And you can, with most classes, build a deck that adapts to the hunter meta, but that doesn't change the fact that it's boring to face a hunter in 75% of the match-ups. It's a really cheap deck too, so everyone and their grandmother can play it. It takes the fun out of the game.
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Personal insults is always the best way to go when you are losing an argument, eh?
You asked why people wouldnt give you serious answers, I replied. But I guess you don't consider anything that isn't exactly what you want to hear to be "addressing your points".
Oh well, I guess you're right. I should not waste any more energy on a pointless troll.
...and the prophecy was 100% correct.
Animal Companion: RNG based, sometimes you get leok when you need huffer, sometimes misha shows up. Its got good value but not crazy value because you cant guarantee the card you are getting.
Highmane: as has been stated, great value but claiming he would be a staple as a neutral legendary is a poor arguement. Take a lot of class rares and epics and make them neutral legendaries and you would see them played across the board.
Hunters mark: A very strong card, mostly combined with UTH. Still a two for one trade and hunters dont have a ton of direct removal.
Flare: A dead card against a lot of classes and decks. Does nothing against warrior and warlock other than cycle the deck and kill a mana crystal.
Secrets: They have to be played more carefully than you think. Any player worth their salt knows how to play around them, sometimes they can put you in an uncomfortable situation anyways. Explosive can simply do nothing, freezing can get procked by something they want back in their hand. Snakes is going to be less of an issue with buzzard being essentially lame. Misdirect is hideously unreliable and snipe might have merit simply because no one expects it right now.
Plenty of decent decks dont use legendaries. Zoo being the strongest example.
I've been playing since early open beta. My views on classes, cards and strategy have changed drastically since starting. Give it time, especially with Hunter already being nerfed, its way too early to speculate if another nerf to them is warranted given we have zero experience with nerfed buzzard meta.
Also your title is slightly misleading, it says "next nerf" but you clearly mean "next hunter nerf."
That's a great idea! In fact, since so many people are complaining about it we should just get rid of hunter from hearthstone! Hunter 2 strong 4 u @lellstjithole.
Don't Complain, Use Your Brain!
In my opinion traps actually arent that hard to deal with. Especially if mad scientist is just mindlessly dropped on turn 2. Then you take a 1/1 or 1/2 useless mob and pop something that could potentially turn the tide later.
And I disagree that hunters just drop their hand and get instant value. Following that line of logic I could just drop two timber wolves and a webspinner and be in good position,but in reality it will only get blown away by the AOE that almost every class possesses. Hunter takes strategy like anything, but with this nerf all the kids that sit on streams waiting for an OP deck to come around with be shit out of luck, and that much easier to farm on.
Rather than join in on all the rank bashing, I don't really think hunter needs any of those cards nerfed atm. The buzzard combo was broken and needed a nerf the other cards while good imo are fine how they are.
Agreed, but with the new expansion coming, hunter might make a comeback. And then get promptly nerfed again by bliz because of the haters and so the cycle repeats.
Don't Complain, Use Your Brain!
Dude has gotten a lot closer to making a real argument than anything you've offered. FYI.
Hunter is absolutely broken, the whole class should just be removed by Blizzard. Next, we work Warlock, then Priest and Paladin. The only class that shouldn't be removed is Shaman because they just have that sucky Mana Tide Totem to draw cards.
You're asking for more nerfs on the hunter forum after the class was basically made unplayable only a few hours ago. What do you expect?
And I guess everything I predicted came through.
Hate to say attodaso, but afukntodaso.
What prediction...? That people who enjoy playing a class; still play it after a nerf..? Holy crap! Could you lend me your amazing foresight for the next lotto i'll play? I'll surely win now!
Dear 12 y/o superskilled unbiased hunter players. I'm referring to the fact that the issue was never with buzzard, but mainly in secrets and everything surrounding play around secrets and their low mana cost vs. consequences (that don't exist).
People can't stop complaining can they...
Undertaker isn't a hunter problem though. It's a problem in the meta, period. These aggro-decks that are built entirely around it are absolutely ridiculous and Blizz should nerf it.
I think hunter is still a little unbalanced. hero power is very strong especially against classes that have no heals like shaman or mage. in my opinion a lot of hunter class cards need tweaks like hunters mark and flare. in general i think most 0 mana cost cards that are playable (not looking at you wisp) are overpowered in the sense that they need to have an affect on mana efficiency. If hunters mark cost only 2 or even one that makes a huge difference with hunter since almost all their cards are already cheap for their effect and stats (animal companion, savanna, webspinner...etc). and flare is just ridiculous. serious 1 mana for secret removal,stealth removal and drawing a card. if it were a choice between the three when you play it then 1 mana is ok. but all 3 effects for 1 mana is incredible powerful (seriously highmane 10/9 stats for 6 mana. better than almost every legendary). the hunter class is built in a way that its cards are cheap enough that the hero power can be used almost every turn during/after mid game.
on the other hand i think cards like kill command are balanced. by itself not a great card 3 mana deal 3 damage unless you have a beast.
i think scav. hyena is actually balanced now with buzzard and unleash nerf.
i played a decent amount of hunter before i realized it was no fun. and you think about it almost every class/deck has a counter except hunter decks.( i think from its hero power and cheap cards) thats just my opinion, but i think the class needs tweaks in order to be balanced.
Quote from Dreadful14 »
dear rank 20 player please stop complaining about hunter and play a counter to it. And I think I am a skilled player since for now I m rank 2 with Priest, not Hunter.
thats the problem. there is no real counter to hunter. only decks that have a similar deckbuild and playstyle that comes out with a 50/50 chance of win or loss. thats the problem.
priest is the only class that is fast enough to deal with hunter and not take damge fast enough to die in like 5 turns because of heals. thats why it has a better match up against hunter but it is definitely not a counter to hunter
Exactly. By no means a counter at all, but it's a match up I would call "least unfavorable". It's hilarious to see someone bragging about rank 2 with priest Btw.
Currently running Shaman with chows and if I draw them really early together with an earth shock, I can get in a good place and establish board control.
I still believe that secrets with their low mana cost and complete tempo switch is still the biggest problem. Freezing trap, Snake trap and Explosive Trap are way too strong for their mana cost and the fact that there's no repurcussion at all for playing them, is disgusting.
Hunter is exactly like it was/is in WoW. A class for people not good enough to play a real class, that can make them feel like they can play.
I'm no hot shot. I took hunter to rank 3 w/o an ounce of effort. Currently rank 5 with Shaman and putting 100 x times to effort in on every game.
They'll get nerfed again hopefully. I'm sure blizzard won't ignore the numbers forever.
Nerfing a card doesn't automatically remove it from the game. I bet you if they would up the mana for all secrets by 1, hunters would be in a much better place, balance wise. Like @YouCantFreezingTrapChuckNorris said. Their strong plays are too cheap, which makes it easy for them to play a solid card (or two) and still slap out that disgusting auto-shot for 2 damage each turn.
Hunters Mark, Mad Scientist (and secrets), Undertaker, Savannah Skillmane aren't what makes hunter "playable". It's what makes them ridiculously unbalanced.
I said it when I created this thread when the buzzard nerf was announced. The buzzard and uth draw mechanic nerf will never be enough.
People called me an idiot and the flaming was in full blaze and you can back track the thread yourself and check the "oh, it's not enough that the class is now unplayable?!" which was the general consensus.
Of course that wasn't true and it took less than 2 weeks in to the new season before they dominated the ladder once again.
Again, yes, you can adjust. There isn't a tried and true "hunter counter" out there. There's priest, who does decent against them. And you can, with most classes, build a deck that adapts to the hunter meta, but that doesn't change the fact that it's boring to face a hunter in 75% of the match-ups. It's a really cheap deck too, so everyone and their grandmother can play it. It takes the fun out of the game.