Hearthpwn

well miracle rogue is currently a tempo deck, and I have tried out some miracle mage stuff and it wasn't that bad in the past, this can basically just be a cheaper gadgetzan, since that deck actually wants to win faster than gadgetzan can get value, and no you don't hang on to two apprentice because people kill them if they can, but playing mana wyrm into apprenitce mirror image happens and can sometimes get the apprentice to stick, if you get lucky this can make your turn three crazy with enough one cost spells in your deck, or it can just accellerate you a little and make sure something sticks, as dealing with this and the apprentice  at that point is difficult. this can totally pull off some tempo shenanigans just the example given above is way too unlikely. by turn five or six you don't even need to stick anything for a turn before getting value off this, and in the right deck you can make that value into tempo, or lethal. I think most people overate the scariness of the deck this would fit into, but I think it may work to have a miracle mage now that this exists.

you realize that part of the reason aggro decks are good right now is because Shudderwock is mainly weak to aggro. This is early un'goro with quest rogue again. I personally am fine with that, but if you don't want aggro decks to be this common, nerfing Shudderwock is the quickest way.

I been playing a variant with the Prince Liam and I think the deck is actually pretty cool and quite decent. The fact I can replace shitty late-game draws with cards that do stuff, and occasionally do a lot, is quite decent. The deck does not have the same quality as pre-expansion dudepaladin at all, but the point of it is not quite the same, the baka version is generallly more rush oriented, and I am just teching liam against decks that can deal with that. 

So far the biggest problem I faced with the baka pala while playing it is when you don't get any of your draw. The thing is that facing it I have always won, but I have been playing a mage tempo deck nobody seems to have tried.

interesting thing: Shudderwock started with the same effect as nerfed yogg saron got. leaving the field does end the battlecry. That change was probably a game-wide change to battlecry effects. they end if the minion doing them dies. (the only way I found to kill shudderwock while he was in battlecry was with the new minion that has battlecry decrease health by the number of cards in the enemy's hand.)

An interesting nerf: buff the lifedrinker to be able to target anything. that will mean that shudderwock is random and not a combo, if they really want to kill it, that is the easiest way to, if they don't yeah just make it worse by making grumble have a lower reduction. 

exodia mage could lose to control, if the control teched right, this seems like a much worse shot as a possibility with shudderwock. I think that the deck may not be unfair, but this meta will be like pre-nerfs un'goro. Shudderwock may be better than quest rogue once it comes down to it, but the meta will have similar qualities. This leads me to think shudderwock will get nerfed someday, not that I really know yet how I feel about it getting nerfed.

I personally understand this argument, but there was a reason quest rogue got nerfed despite it having a low winrate overall. It had a major impact on the meta that people considered negative. A similar think might be true of shudderwock, and if a change is made to the deck, I bet the change will be on grumble, but it won't be an awkward replacement of battlecry with the effect the battlecry keyword has. that is dumb.

umm, well it was borderline before and generally right now the rest of that deck, the part where it is control paladin, is what made it work, so a very similar deck will be viable perhaps, but no otk. maybe something makes otk possible, but as i see it slow paladins will look similar, like 3-4 cards different excepting substitutions from new stuff in witchwood that is similar but better than stuff from before already in the deck. 

I think koft was my least favourite this year, between some cool totem stuff in kobolds I am enjoying right now, as well as mill rogue my first true favourite deck being brought to viability. I genuinely have over 500 wins with mill rogue alone so kobolds made me happy, and I enjoyed un'goro as well with the changing meta, I made a new deck every day and felt like each new deck was decent so that was cool.

actually cubelock is not that annoying to me, big priest is up their for me, but cubelock is something I can deal with, I dislike secret mage, but it is possible to deal with using good predictive skills and testing of secrets. quest rogue is not high for me in terms of annoyance, everything I played beat it. jade druid or kingsbane rogue would probably take the cake for me though. even as someone who played a good amount of kingsbane rogue at various points. mill rogue on the other hand I understand why people hate playing against, but I personally always enjoyed both playing as and against it. I essentially disagree with the whole list they have there, except jade druid.

that is a list fir wild, I don't understand anything about you post, please explain.

I have been playing totem shaman right now, the alakir summoner is not hard to get off in the right deck, and the deck itself is not too bad, if the cards it loses next expansion get some replacements and we see a good late game totem card for shaman, I think it might be viable.

Quote from OverholtNA >>

A one drop would be nice. Shaman was at its best when it had Tunnel Trogg, and the other powerful tempo decks tend to be those that have their own 1-drops (Mage with Mana Wyrm and Kabal Lackey; Druid with Enchanted Raven; Warlock with Flame Imp and Voidwalker; Paladin with Righteous Protector, Grimscale Chum, and Vilefin Inquisitor. If Shaman wants early game consistency right now it comes entirely through neutral cards (and on a related note, Fire Fly really should have been a Shaman card; seeing it in Tempo Rogue, Aggro Druid, and Hunter seems kind of silly).

We'll also need some cheap AOE with Maelstrom Portal going to wild. My idea for a card would be a 3-cost Totem  (let's call it an 0/3 minion) that deals 1 damage to all enemy minions at the end of your turn.

I'd love for freeze to be viable, but I think they may just be better off pretending like it never happened. Totem synergy probably has more of a chance to be viable and I think there are a few ways you could run with it. Here are a few rough ideas I had:

1) A 3 mana 3/3 with "devour a totem, gain +2/+2". Gives you an incentive to have a totem on the board and it allows you to create a big minion rather than going wide to play around things like Duskbreaker and Spreading Plague.

2) Some totem-based minion removal. Could have a card that says, "deal X damage to all enemy minions for each totem you control".

3) A little bit of card draw wouldn't hurt, either. And let's attach it to a respectable body ala Drakonid Operative: say, 5 mana 5/6 with "if you control a totem, draw a card".

I am pretty sure the mechanic will not be too oppresive, they have gotten better at throwing lots of different mechanics into an expansion, and making that work well, two-three different archetypes seemed to be pushed every expansion, and I think the even /odd class cards are in many cases just gonna be options in that classes odd or even deck, if they have one. I bet there will be one or two decent ones, probably warlock and druid will be the ones I expect, but I don't think those decks will be oppresive, or particularly bad, I think that there will also be many many other options for deckbuilding than just odd or even decks, people seem to either think those cards will see no play, or they will be the only choices, but I think that that is silly given what we have seen in the past year. Blizzard has gotten great at making diverse and interesting metas in my opinion. Cubelock is really powerful sure, but there are counters and the meta won't sit still even as the next expansion looms. Seriously, when weapon rogue suddenly surfaces into the midst of a meta that has different control decks popping up and countering each other one after another, and aggro decks still viable but not in an oppresive cycle like we saw in mean streets or karazan where the number of options got severly limited by the overpresence of certain decks and their counters. I also think predicting anything now is kinda dumb, as we will lose like 400+ cards and get 135 new ones. That is a gigantic change and thinking that we are all doomed because a mechanic is going to be in the next expansion seems really hysterical, but I guess that is the hearthstone community for you. We really are just a bunch of headless chickens screaming our lungs out even though that physically makes no sense.

I personally have been playing quite a bit of totem shaman recently, and I really enjoyed the early versions of evolve shaman people made, with c'thun stuff and all sorts of craziness, but shaman has usually been either the bottom of the barrel or the top of the heap. I am really hoping that they push the totem more in the next expansion, because I think a lot of the cards for totem shaman now are really interesting but the ones I really like are rotating in witchwood, namely those are Wicked Witchdoctor and Primal Fusion. Those two cards create very interesting choices and turns, and make totems themselves feel week, but the deck as a whole feel stronger. That also holds true with Primal Talismans and Windshear Stormcaller. These cards all have thought that goes into when and how you use them, and while there is randomness involved in some, the randomness feels to me quite manageable, since you are creating so many totems. Some of these cards also lead to a conundrum where you need to sack off certain totems to get the one you want, and ordering and positioning play pivotal roles in your play. Overall, this is what holds back totem shaman, but it is also what makes it fun. In the past good decks running totems as a major element seemed to try and just overwhelm the opponent, and they played out stuff, and if they got lucky they won and if they did not they lost. the current totem synergy cards mostly give you a chance to something more easily if you get lucky, while you can still achieve the same effect with more difficulty if you don't. I have gotten extremely lucky once and gotten a windshear out and summoned the alakir on turn 6 and primal fusioned it that turn, but that scenario is much rare that slowly cultivating the right board of totems and drawing the right cards to pull off windshear and bloodlust for a kill. It does on some level feel a little cheap to do that kind of burst, but I think that if they cultivate more effects with similar drawbacks, but good upsides to make totem shaman viable in the next expansion, it could be a very interesting deck. I really hope to see them push that angle since I have gotten tired of the more rush based style of play shaman has fallen into. 

I think that if they push more of a midrange angle with hard to pull off but powerful effects for totems, it will make an interesting and powerful deck, and I think that given the theme of the expansion, totem shaman could very well be an archetype they push, so I hope they do. What do you think is liketly for us to see in shaman, and what do you hope for?

Why are you complaining about them turning a card that was a 0 mana 5/5 into a zero mana 2/5 and sure it was sometimes as much as 2 mana, but they printed a 3 mana 2/5 beast for hunter and it saw play in every hunter, it was good enough to make the class semi-viable at the time it was printed. a cheaper 2/5 beast is nothing to scoff at, it would have been right for people to sleep on it pre-expansion, but it would not have been terrible.