Well, first since this is a Hearthstone forum let’s respect that and start by saying this, Hearthstone is a great game, and I have no plans to completely quit. Furthermore, this is a great forum with tons of fun discussion on the game.
TLDR: I have been playing Hearthstone since closed beta nearly every day and I am surprised by how much I love Elder Scrolls Legends. I wouldn’t believe you if you told me last week that on one of my few days off this week I would be playing a game beside Hearthstone.
About me and HS:
I have been playing card games since the late 90s and Hearthstone since closed beta. And I have been playing Hearthstone daily. I guess you could say I am (was?) addicted to Hearthstone.
Since ranked rewards I have always set aside the time to grind to rank 5, do the daily quests, do some arena for the shot at big prizes, and took advantage of grinding gold when those “fast-games” tavern brawls came up… so… not having the desire to play Hearthstone, especially for another card game wasn’t even imaginable for me. (Does this sound like you?)
But… then…
Elder Scrolls Legends first impressions:
Free to play... Okay, sure, what the hell, let’s download it. I had no idea what to expect, I checked it out solely based on a response to a thread here on PWN that said something like, “I don’t care Elder Scrolls Legends went to open beta.”
I’m not here to talk too much about actual game play as it is covered heavily already in various places.
The details and why TESL works for me:
What I want to talk about are game mechanics and extras that kept me playing all day on my day off and not playing Hearthstone (and I always looked forward to grinding HS for hours on days off).
Healing effects can put you over 30 health: For example, there is a 2/2 that heals for 2, so dropped on turn one, starts you at 32. This is something I always wanted in Hearthstone (which BTW would give Priest a needed boost! Justicar, ouch).
You get something for every win and awards in general are better: The thing that I really liked is even when I beat the AI (innkeeper equivalent) I got dust (let’s use some HS terms for ease). I have been playing the intermediate innkeeper and I get 10 dust per win – great, so 10 wins and I can farm rares I need while I test the new cards! Hell, 40 games gets me an epic – 100%) Also, packs are 6 cards, not 5. I always felt 5 wasn’t enough to count as a pack. The max rewards for a day end at 30 wins, but seems that you can get over 100 gold worth, I only won 3 ranked games and got 15 gold and a common card. I also heard people have gotten packs for ranked wins. Ranked also has prizes (don’t know the exact scale, but once you hit a decent rank something like a pack 100+ dust and a card).
Arena has 2 modes: Arena wins give more, on 5-6 wins you can expect 50-100 gold and maybe 2 packs (same prices as Blizz to enter 150g/$2). There is also an AI arena, which is of course easier, so if you wanna relax and just grind away, you can get good rewards without tough competition and stressing about every turn. If you’re competitive, go for the VS Arena vs players (and I hear prizes are a bit better of course).
I don’t get upset when I lose: This is a personal one, but I am sure some of you feel the same. Due to the emotes coming off sarcastic in HS (and I can’t remember to Squelch every game), sometimes loses feel bad and that sarcastic emote breaks my concentration – especially if the game is for the next rank or an arena win. This feeling for me wasn’t present in TESL (yet. but I doubt it will be since emotes are rather “generic” and softer spoken). Also, Hearthstone has some pretty polarizing matches. Sure, bad matches will happen in every game, but HS feels like some are terribly unbalanced. See Freeze Mage VS Control Warrior. Remember Priest VS Anyfin? Hearthstone creates some match ups that are unwinnable (or let’s say an extremely high loss rate like 90% loss / 10% win)
Less RNG on the card abilities: Another big one, yes, there is “RNG of the draw” like in every card game in TESL, but the battlecries, and deathrattles, and spells have FAR less RNG. This is another reason losing doesn’t upset me as much. I can recall many games in Hearthstone when bad RNG lost me the game. Sure, good RNG happens too, but the losses are more painful than the wins feel good. Bottom line, the less RNG the better. How you lose is important.
Max cards: 70 is the max here (50 minimum), and this works because it makes a lot more cards viable and adds a ton of room for support cards (buffs) and drawing/cycling cards. You would think the games go longer, but, feels pretty close. Just like Hearthstone 90% of the games don’t go to fatigue anyway. This should also help meta variety since there is more free space for multiple variations of builds. So, this is a long talk, but real quick… the more cards you have the less impact the OP ones have on the whole because they appear less. Dr.Boom and shredder came up every damn game cause well, there are only 30 cards… great odds are someone is gonna draw one if not both players. This is why HS it seems like the opponent always has the answer, because with such a small deck, they usually draw it. I mean, some decks strategy is to cycle through the whole deck for the win condition… that’s abusing the low card limit. See OTK warrior, Anyfin, Miracle/Fatigue Rogue…
Legendaries are 1200 not 1600 dust: I always felt 1600 was just too much. Commons are 50 dust, but hey, those fill up the fastest anyway and most packs give mostly commons. The rest is the same. You can also get legendaries as card prizes for arena runs – I’ve gotten 2 (thanks for all those CRAP common card prizes to make me feel even WORSE after a bad arena run HearthStone)
Ongoing effects: Pretty much what HS needs. It’s not a spell, weapon, or minion. It is and effect that you cast and stays on the battle field until destroyed with specific removal. For example: 4 mana – all your minions have +1/+1.
You don’t lose rank: This system works for me too. Rank is labeled by class and numbers, for example the warrior, the mage etc. If you lose the last game that would knock you down a rank, you go to the “serpent zone.” When you win 2 in a row there, you return to the rank you were. I hate getting knocked back multiple ranks in Hearthstone, once I hit the rank, I like to stay there.
Disputing some “cons” people have listed here:
Gold cards are hard to tell apart from non-gold: This is a very very minor “con” and has nothing to do with game play. It’s not something important enough to count as a “con” by any means.
The game board is boring: Um, like they’re gonna keep just one game board forever. Not a con. Silly comment.
Card Art and weak characters: Matter of opinion, but ES lore is not about big flashy characters, it’s about variety in races, classes, minions. Like D&D compared to Lord of the Rings. Similar, but D&D doesn’t go for characterization. This also has nothing to do with game play. So, can’t technically label it a “con.”
Somebody said “too complex for the new player,” which means they haven’t played many card games. Card games are generally complex to enhance strategic plays. If this game were TOO complex, I could understand – but it isn’t. It has a nice balance of depth and a pretty easy learning curve (especially if you played at least one other card game which everyone here has).
Closing:
Only time will tell about TESL, and historically Blizz usually combats competition pretty well – but this time, they will need to use their heads a bit more and add some more complexity and balance to HS to keep up. I can see a large portion of Hearthstone players at least dividing their time and money with this (and in the end probably dropping Hearthstone if they have to choose one). Geez, I can’t believe I wanna play another card game. I am (was?) a HUGE Hearthstone fan.
… this one feels like the real deal as far as competition.
Not sure how much traction this sub-forum gets, but I wanted to discuss my own feelings about ESL compared to Hearthstone.
Also, wanted to mention I don't disagree with anything you stated.
1) Less RNG. The only RNG is usually color based top-deck views. (i.e. If the top card of your deck is <X>, then Y event occurs).
2) Passive effects are stronger. There are cards in ESL that give other creatures +2 health or +1 attack, or even give your hero +2 health when they are played as long as that card is in play. This passive effect makes the weak card more appealing when you can dump your hand. The closest thing we have to anything like this are the normally weak regarded cards of Young Priestess or Master Swordsmith. The downside to those 2 cards is they only affect 1 card per turn, and have poor stats (1/3 can't kill anything usually, and 2/1 dies to anything)
3) Keyword effects. There are more keywords assigned to cards, and they don't necessarily drop the stat value of the card because some keywords are stronger/weaker in certain colors, or are not as common. For example, a lot of creatures, especially taunts, have the "Regenerate" effect (similar to Stoneskin Gargoyle's passive effect). This is a keyword that would be AWESOME to have in Hearthstone. Imagine being able to have a taunt that can't be wittled down over many turns, and the opponent has to commit to using enough resources (spells and units) to killing that card in a single turn. Certain colors (classes) have more keywords than others. For example charge minions are more prevalant in Red and Green than any other color. This means that a charge minion in another type of color is very valuable and may be overcosted, but in red/green they may be undercosted because that is their "theme".
4)Battlecries: Battlecry effects can target their own minion, and a lot of battlecry effects are permanent. This allows you to spread stats around without committing to a single card, or buff another card up enough to cause your opponent to be unable to react to the stat value they expected. An example of this card in hearthstone is lance carrier, however imagine that if your board was empty, you could buff lance carrier to be a 3/2 by itself. All of a sudden this card is WAY better? It either becomes a perma 3/2 on it's own (that can be silenced of course) or it can buff another creature by 2 attack which makes it way more flexibile and useful.
These are just a few of the things I've noticed that ESL does better than Hearthstone. There are pros and cons to both games, but I think overall ESL provides a more competitive experience over hearthstone.
started ESL two days ago. had fun but could not really see that it would become a whole different experience. therefore i have a question:
What really annoys me about HS is the lack of skill the game requires to win games and that great cards (epics and legendaries) do not give an edge over boring cards (common and rares). I see why the devs made certain design choices to make the game accessible to new players but it is just ridiculous how someone who played for a month netdecks a zoolock and crush about any deck i like to play for fun (usually some kind of control/combo i try to experiment with). If you played this weeks tavern brawl co-op you see how stupid most players are and play without thinking about what may or may not happen two or three turns down the line. HS does not require any smart play, it doesnt punish stupid plays enough and aside from experience on how to play certain match-ups, there isnt a whole lot of progression if you are playing the game for a long period of time.
So the question i have is this, do you feel ESL will be more focused on skill and progression through the game(i.e. collecting cards and rewards)? HS was my first card game and i have enjoyed it for a long time but since the old gods couldnt deliver on a more enjoyable meta and kharazan doesnt promise much improvement i am curious to any better alternative games
1. Healing effects can put you over 30 health. In hearthstone there is a class called Warrior, whose hero power would be strictly worse than priest if this was the case.
2. Get something for each win...Agree
3. 2 modes of Arena...Agree. AI arena is great for newcomers, or people who are generally uncomfortable with PVP arena or people who just enjoy PVE.
4. Losing doesn't feel as bad. Subjective, also ESL is in beta. When decks become as tight and refined as HS, I think the meta will be much different.
5. Less RNG. Remember that Hearthstone has released several expansions and adventures so far, if just looking at the classic set there is actually substantially less RNG than ESL classic set. Also ESL besides current Hearthstone has more RNG than any other card game, so still a lot.
6. Bigger deck size (50-70). Yes allows for more variety along with the 2 color system. However this is one of the things that will make it very imposing for casual card players to get into the game.
7. Legendary cost. Yes ESL is slightly cheaper, but you fail to mention that other than uniques people can run 3 copies of legendaries in a deck. So if there is a staple legendary for a deck, likely you need 3 copies as opposed to 1.
8. Ongoing effects. Yes like MTG and Shadowverse (and I'm sure other card games) you have ongoing effect cards. It does add depth.
9. You don't lose rank. Yes but it takes more wins to rank up (though there are fewer total ranks).
That is indeed the greatest obstacle (and by a longshot) that any contending CCG faces. People either spent money, grinded infinite arena, and/or through meticulously doing every daily quest or even the 3x wins 10 gold, etc. In short people either put in a ton of time and effort, money or a bit of both to build a substantial (by no means complete) collection allowing them to build a variety of decks in this game. New expansions/adventures are constantly being released, so the grind/money spending never ends. So do you really want to start from scratch in another CCG? How much free time do you have? How much of that free time do you want to devote to playing card games?
exactly the reason why i wasnt too excited about ESL. my HS collection is looking pretty fine atm, just wish i could put all those cool cards to use without having to pray to que into priest every game only to be disappointed with the next zoolock.
ah well, im still having fun i suppose. Fingers crossed for next expansion ...
I agree with everything OP said. TESL is a really great game so far, and I think it will get better with the release. Some of the displays I'm not crazy about though, like not showing your actual deck of cards (they kind of pull out of nowhere). Lots of little things like that I think need improvement, but nothing that effects gameplay too much. It's much faster paced which is cool but can be a bit frustrating as I find myself looking at the "play history" quite a bit just to understand "what the hell just happened". I anticipate this will get easier to understand as I learn the cards and their effects a little better, and when the meta gets more defined.
I like the card upgrade system, but it kind of makes the non-upgraded versions complete trash so not sure if that's really a good thing. Some of the legendaries are just terrible, and some of the commons are extremely overpowered; I think some balancing needs to happen in this department. More to that point, there are a lot of cards that are strictly better than others. For instance, same mana cost, same attack/health, but one has a better ability. HS has a little bit of that too, but it's way more prevalent in TESL it seems.
All in all, a well executed game, and I am excited to see how it looks when they release the real game (after beta I mean). It still won't keep me from playing HS, but it certainly is a great alternative for when HS gets stale.
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Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
That is indeed the greatest obstacle (and by a longshot) that any contending CCG faces. People either spent money, grinded infinite arena, and/or through meticulously doing every daily quest or even the 3x wins 10 gold, etc. In short people either put in a ton of time and effort, money or a bit of both to build a substantial (by no means complete) collection allowing them to build a variety of decks in this game. New expansions/adventures are constantly being released, so the grind/money spending never ends. So do you really want to start from scratch in another CCG? How much free time do you have? How much of that free time do you want to devote to playing card games?
The game must be very generous. ESL is certainly quite generous. I mean, I've played MMDoC for 2 years, gathering up all the cards in 10k games. Starting over with HS after it dies was a big letdown. Now I have most of the viable cards (can even run an all-legendary paladin). I don't think gathering a much smaller card collection in ESL will be harder than grinding Arenas in HS (that's what I did).
1. Healing effects can put you over 30 health. In hearthstone there is a class called Warrior, whose hero power would be strictly worse than priest if this was the case.
2. Get something for each win...Agree
3. 2 modes of Arena...Agree. AI arena is great for newcomers, or people who are generally uncomfortable with PVP arena or people who just enjoy PVE.
4. Losing doesn't feel as bad. Subjective, also ESL is in beta. When decks become as tight and refined as HS, I think the meta will be much different.
5. Less RNG. Remember that Hearthstone has released several expansions and adventures so far, if just looking at the classic set there is actually substantially less RNG than ESL classic set. Also ESL besides current Hearthstone has more RNG than any other card game, so still a lot.
6. Bigger deck size (50-70). Yes allows for more variety along with the 2 color system. However this is one of the things that will make it very imposing for casual card players to get into the game.
7. Legendary cost. Yes ESL is slightly cheaper, but you fail to mention that other than uniques people can run 3 copies of legendaries in a deck. So if there is a staple legendary for a deck, likely you need 3 copies as opposed to 1.
8. Ongoing effects. Yes like MTG and Shadowverse (and I'm sure other card games) you have ongoing effect cards. It does add depth.
9. You don't lose rank. Yes but it takes more wins to rank up (though there are fewer total ranks).
thanks for the response
i didnt feel like you were disagreeing really
to go into more detail, legendaries have 2 types in ESL, some can have up to 3, but some are 1 ofs
sure, warrior can go over 30 health, but the other 8 classes cant and healing spells have 0 value when you are at 30... thats what bothers me
I love card games too , i started with magic when i was really young and i really loved it but i stopped since i grew up and i felt nerdy keep playng it .. then i discovered hearthstone and i really got addicted to it hahaahah .. since i love card games i ll try esl .. btw im thinkimg to stop playng hearthstone , i cant study , work , go out and playng videogame and sleep hahahaaah .. i think it would be the best for everyone here stop playmg it but i know its really fun and addicting as fuck after you got rank 5 or legend you always wanna get it at the end of the season
I love card games too , i started with magic when i was really young and i really loved it but i stopped since i grew up and i felt nerdy keep playng it .. then i discovered hearthstone and i really got addicted to it hahaahah .. since i love card games i ll try esl .. btw im thinkimg to stop playng hearthstone , i cant study , work , go out and playng videogame and sleep hahahaaah .. i think it would be the best for everyone here stop playmg it but i know its really fun and addicting as fuck after you got rank 5 or legend you always wanna get it at the end of the season
Dude, trust me, you're gonna love TESL. I'm old school MtG as well (been playing since Arabian) and this is the first OLCCG that's finally gotten it right.
I think the game is pretty neat but I can't force myself to start collecting all the cards in another game, especially since they can put 3 legendaries in a deck. I hate the collecting part of these games so much it's a lame money grab that forces people to play stupid boring decks, adventures are cool and worth the gold/money IMO(not gonna expand much on this because it would take to long atm). Sure I know some people like to play cheap decks and that's fine but i hope they at least want to some day try to pull an otk with velen or win with a handlock by using jaraxxus and so on, it doesn't even have to be on ladder. It took me two years in hearthstone with quite some money(ok ok it's not that much if you spread it out but still) to get let's say 90% of playable deck types(that includes obscure fun ones i mentioned).
TLDR: I can't stand the bullshit card collecting in card games. I did it once for hearthstone and never ever again.
Edit: I was initially wrong about the legendary allow-ability in decks and adjusted my post, however I don't think I've run across a single deck running multiple copies of a particular legendary in ranked. However, after reviewing the legendary cards I have and comparing them, I've realized that almost across the board the following truth: every legendary card is over-costed for it's stat budget, because they are powerful conditional cards. Very few cards are statline "appropriate" for their cost, and those that are, are fairly bland (i.e. reactive powers like Taunt/Breakthrough).
I literally have spent ZERO dollars in the game, and I've unlocked 58% of the cards in one week.
And FYI @ DragonConsort, The "free time" argument is a logical fallacy at it's finest. If you're claiming people don't have the free time to devote to playing another card game, or card games in general, then they probably don't have the time to devote to playing games period.
Your time is what you make of it. If you want to play Hearthstone exclusively, then great! I'm all for that. If you want to play ESL exclusively again "Hooray!" I'm all for that. If you want to split your time equally, then so be it.
It's the players choice how the spend their time playing games, but the argument that it takes a lot of time to play cards games, therefore you should only ever play one card game at a time, is a bullshit one at best.
1. The % stat in ESL is faulty, yeah you probably have most of the commons, but what about the legendaries? It also doesn't account for having multiple copies (of which you can include 3 of any card in the deck).
2. Building a collection in most card games takes a lot of time. Fighting games are very time intensive in terms of getting good, but once you buy any one of them....everything is unlocked and ready to go. Card games, well there is never an even playing field. You have to build your collection to get closer and closer evening the playing field in addition to learning the game. Card games are unlike any other competitive game in that aspect. For FPS, sports, fighting, etc you only have to learn the game, you don't also have to acquire the tools. Well here is Ryu, but you have to grind to be able to use a fireball, and then grind more to be able to get a DP...while you face people with all the moves unlocked. That is what it is like. You are also never done...cause expansions keep being released.
Avid MTG player for 3 and a half years. I'm a Rules Adviser for my playgroup - I love reading into the complexity of games. I've also been playing MTG Hearthstone since season 2.
I do still play both games, MTG and Hearthstone, and I haven't been Free to Play on either game. I tried doing Free to Play for Hearthstone, as my friend is doing right now, but it's just challenging and boring. The grind is never something I cared for during Hearthstone.
1) How is the F2P experience for TESL? 2) Is it easy to get started? 3) I dislike HS's F2P - I'm impatient. Does TESL's F2P lean toward the more patient people? 4) If I pay money, what am I buying - Just booster packs? Are there anything similar to Adventures?
A side question, how are you currently playing? F2P or are you paying for packs?
Thanks for your thoughts about TESL and for answering my questions. I've seen it before hand, but I've been not too inclined to play it. I have played dozens of other card games and the only ones which have stayed is MTG & Hearthstone.
Well, first since this is a Hearthstone forum let’s respect that and start by saying this, Hearthstone is a great game, and I have no plans to completely quit. Furthermore, this is a great forum with tons of fun discussion on the game.
TLDR: I have been playing Hearthstone since closed beta nearly every day and I am surprised by how much I love Elder Scrolls Legends. I wouldn’t believe you if you told me last week that on one of my few days off this week I would be playing a game beside Hearthstone.
About me and HS:
I have been playing card games since the late 90s and Hearthstone since closed beta. And I have been playing Hearthstone daily. I guess you could say I am (was?) addicted to Hearthstone.
Since ranked rewards I have always set aside the time to grind to rank 5, do the daily quests, do some arena for the shot at big prizes, and took advantage of grinding gold when those “fast-games” tavern brawls came up… so… not having the desire to play Hearthstone, especially for another card game wasn’t even imaginable for me. (Does this sound like you?)
But… then…
Elder Scrolls Legends first impressions:
Free to play... Okay, sure, what the hell, let’s download it. I had no idea what to expect, I checked it out solely based on a response to a thread here on PWN that said something like, “I don’t care Elder Scrolls Legends went to open beta.”
I’m not here to talk too much about actual game play as it is covered heavily already in various places.
The details and why TESL works for me:
What I want to talk about are game mechanics and extras that kept me playing all day on my day off and not playing Hearthstone (and I always looked forward to grinding HS for hours on days off).
Disputing some “cons” people have listed here:
Closing:
Only time will tell about TESL, and historically Blizz usually combats competition pretty well – but this time, they will need to use their heads a bit more and add some more complexity and balance to HS to keep up. I can see a large portion of Hearthstone players at least dividing their time and money with this (and in the end probably dropping Hearthstone if they have to choose one). Geez, I can’t believe I wanna play another card game. I am (was?) a HUGE Hearthstone fan.
… this one feels like the real deal as far as competition.
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
Not sure how much traction this sub-forum gets, but I wanted to discuss my own feelings about ESL compared to Hearthstone.
Also, wanted to mention I don't disagree with anything you stated.
1) Less RNG. The only RNG is usually color based top-deck views. (i.e. If the top card of your deck is <X>, then Y event occurs).
2) Passive effects are stronger. There are cards in ESL that give other creatures +2 health or +1 attack, or even give your hero +2 health when they are played as long as that card is in play. This passive effect makes the weak card more appealing when you can dump your hand. The closest thing we have to anything like this are the normally weak regarded cards of Young Priestess or Master Swordsmith. The downside to those 2 cards is they only affect 1 card per turn, and have poor stats (1/3 can't kill anything usually, and 2/1 dies to anything)
3) Keyword effects. There are more keywords assigned to cards, and they don't necessarily drop the stat value of the card because some keywords are stronger/weaker in certain colors, or are not as common. For example, a lot of creatures, especially taunts, have the "Regenerate" effect (similar to Stoneskin Gargoyle's passive effect). This is a keyword that would be AWESOME to have in Hearthstone. Imagine being able to have a taunt that can't be wittled down over many turns, and the opponent has to commit to using enough resources (spells and units) to killing that card in a single turn. Certain colors (classes) have more keywords than others. For example charge minions are more prevalant in Red and Green than any other color. This means that a charge minion in another type of color is very valuable and may be overcosted, but in red/green they may be undercosted because that is their "theme".
4)Battlecries: Battlecry effects can target their own minion, and a lot of battlecry effects are permanent. This allows you to spread stats around without committing to a single card, or buff another card up enough to cause your opponent to be unable to react to the stat value they expected. An example of this card in hearthstone is lance carrier, however imagine that if your board was empty, you could buff lance carrier to be a 3/2 by itself. All of a sudden this card is WAY better? It either becomes a perma 3/2 on it's own (that can be silenced of course) or it can buff another creature by 2 attack which makes it way more flexibile and useful.
These are just a few of the things I've noticed that ESL does better than Hearthstone. There are pros and cons to both games, but I think overall ESL provides a more competitive experience over hearthstone.
Thanks for the response Myke. Well said.
I am aware there is another thread going, but I wanted people to get into detail about how this really made them/me cut back on HS.
I will continue to play HS, but... not competitive in any way like I used too. As far as money, I guess I'll buy adventures. Thats about it.
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
Sorry guys, HS wil NEVER be surpassed by a hipster clone. Blizzard is the Legion, it's ENDLESS!
started ESL two days ago. had fun but could not really see that it would become a whole different experience. therefore i have a question:
What really annoys me about HS is the lack of skill the game requires to win games and that great cards (epics and legendaries) do not give an edge over boring cards (common and rares). I see why the devs made certain design choices to make the game accessible to new players but it is just ridiculous how someone who played for a month netdecks a zoolock and crush about any deck i like to play for fun (usually some kind of control/combo i try to experiment with). If you played this weeks tavern brawl co-op you see how stupid most players are and play without thinking about what may or may not happen two or three turns down the line. HS does not require any smart play, it doesnt punish stupid plays enough and aside from experience on how to play certain match-ups, there isnt a whole lot of progression if you are playing the game for a long period of time.
So the question i have is this, do you feel ESL will be more focused on skill and progression through the game(i.e. collecting cards and rewards)? HS was my first card game and i have enjoyed it for a long time but since the old gods couldnt deliver on a more enjoyable meta and kharazan doesnt promise much improvement i am curious to any better alternative games
cheers
Wanted to address the OP's points.
1. Healing effects can put you over 30 health. In hearthstone there is a class called Warrior, whose hero power would be strictly worse than priest if this was the case.
2. Get something for each win...Agree
3. 2 modes of Arena...Agree. AI arena is great for newcomers, or people who are generally uncomfortable with PVP arena or people who just enjoy PVE.
4. Losing doesn't feel as bad. Subjective, also ESL is in beta. When decks become as tight and refined as HS, I think the meta will be much different.
5. Less RNG. Remember that Hearthstone has released several expansions and adventures so far, if just looking at the classic set there is actually substantially less RNG than ESL classic set. Also ESL besides current Hearthstone has more RNG than any other card game, so still a lot.
6. Bigger deck size (50-70). Yes allows for more variety along with the 2 color system. However this is one of the things that will make it very imposing for casual card players to get into the game.
7. Legendary cost. Yes ESL is slightly cheaper, but you fail to mention that other than uniques people can run 3 copies of legendaries in a deck. So if there is a staple legendary for a deck, likely you need 3 copies as opposed to 1.
8. Ongoing effects. Yes like MTG and Shadowverse (and I'm sure other card games) you have ongoing effect cards. It does add depth.
9. You don't lose rank. Yes but it takes more wins to rank up (though there are fewer total ranks).
That is indeed the greatest obstacle (and by a longshot) that any contending CCG faces. People either spent money, grinded infinite arena, and/or through meticulously doing every daily quest or even the 3x wins 10 gold, etc. In short people either put in a ton of time and effort, money or a bit of both to build a substantial (by no means complete) collection allowing them to build a variety of decks in this game. New expansions/adventures are constantly being released, so the grind/money spending never ends. So do you really want to start from scratch in another CCG? How much free time do you have? How much of that free time do you want to devote to playing card games?
exactly the reason why i wasnt too excited about ESL. my HS collection is looking pretty fine atm, just wish i could put all those cool cards to use without having to pray to que into priest every game only to be disappointed with the next zoolock.
ah well, im still having fun i suppose. Fingers crossed for next expansion ...
I agree with everything OP said. TESL is a really great game so far, and I think it will get better with the release. Some of the displays I'm not crazy about though, like not showing your actual deck of cards (they kind of pull out of nowhere). Lots of little things like that I think need improvement, but nothing that effects gameplay too much. It's much faster paced which is cool but can be a bit frustrating as I find myself looking at the "play history" quite a bit just to understand "what the hell just happened". I anticipate this will get easier to understand as I learn the cards and their effects a little better, and when the meta gets more defined.
I like the card upgrade system, but it kind of makes the non-upgraded versions complete trash so not sure if that's really a good thing. Some of the legendaries are just terrible, and some of the commons are extremely overpowered; I think some balancing needs to happen in this department. More to that point, there are a lot of cards that are strictly better than others. For instance, same mana cost, same attack/health, but one has a better ability. HS has a little bit of that too, but it's way more prevalent in TESL it seems.
All in all, a well executed game, and I am excited to see how it looks when they release the real game (after beta I mean). It still won't keep me from playing HS, but it certainly is a great alternative for when HS gets stale.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
I mean, I've played MMDoC for 2 years, gathering up all the cards in 10k games. Starting over with HS after it dies was a big letdown. Now I have most of the viable cards (can even run an all-legendary paladin). I don't think gathering a much smaller card collection in ESL will be harder than grinding Arenas in HS (that's what I did).
ESL is a much more skilled game than Hearthstone. Even if you're playing with aggro you actually have to think.
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
I play hs because I like gambling but Im too poor for a casino
I love card games too , i started with magic when i was really young and i really loved it but i stopped since i grew up and i felt nerdy keep playng it .. then i discovered hearthstone and i really got addicted to it hahaahah .. since i love card games i ll try esl .. btw im thinkimg to stop playng hearthstone , i cant study , work , go out and playng videogame and sleep hahahaaah .. i think it would be the best for everyone here stop playmg it but i know its really fun and addicting as fuck after you got rank 5 or legend you always wanna get it at the end of the season
I literally have spent ZERO dollars in the game, and I've unlocked 58% of the cards in one week.
1. The % stat in ESL is faulty, yeah you probably have most of the commons, but what about the legendaries? It also doesn't account for having multiple copies (of which you can include 3 of any card in the deck).
2. Building a collection in most card games takes a lot of time. Fighting games are very time intensive in terms of getting good, but once you buy any one of them....everything is unlocked and ready to go. Card games, well there is never an even playing field. You have to build your collection to get closer and closer evening the playing field in addition to learning the game. Card games are unlike any other competitive game in that aspect. For FPS, sports, fighting, etc you only have to learn the game, you don't also have to acquire the tools. Well here is Ryu, but you have to grind to be able to use a fireball, and then grind more to be able to get a DP...while you face people with all the moves unlocked. That is what it is like. You are also never done...cause expansions keep being released.
Sucks to own a Mac.
Avid MTG player for 3 and a half years. I'm a Rules Adviser for my playgroup - I love reading into the complexity of games. I've also been playing
MTGHearthstone since season 2.I do still play both games, MTG and Hearthstone, and I haven't been Free to Play on either game. I tried doing Free to Play for Hearthstone, as my friend is doing right now, but it's just challenging and boring. The grind is never something I cared for during Hearthstone.
1) How is the F2P experience for TESL?
2) Is it easy to get started?
3) I dislike HS's F2P - I'm impatient. Does TESL's F2P lean toward the more patient people?
4) If I pay money, what am I buying - Just booster packs? Are there anything similar to Adventures?
A side question, how are you currently playing? F2P or are you paying for packs?
Thanks for your thoughts about TESL and for answering my questions. I've seen it before hand, but I've been not too inclined to play it. I have played dozens of other card games and the only ones which have stayed is MTG & Hearthstone.
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.