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This is a control class that has CERO ways to gain the value game. Its absurd, Chaman, Deathknight, Mage, Walock. (even the over nerf druid)
Literally ANY lass can put a bunch of late game cards and do better than Priest at this point. It is really stupid. The amount of luck and skill you need to climb with Priest control is 3 times the amount of luck and skill you need to climb with literally ANY other late game deck it is a joke at this point. A really BAD joke.
I thought that playing Aman'Thul over and over until the opponent falls asleep was enough added value.
I don't think that is the real weakness of Priest atm.
I can understand, what the creator means - there are too many decks with strong cards and priest cant handle anything.
<pre id="tw-target-text" class="tw-data-text tw-text-large tw-ta" dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" data-placeholder="Übersetzung" data-ved="2ahUKEwjd0PrysJKEAxU5Q_EDHf3jB78Q3ewLegQIBRAT">The only chance the priest has, is to get the other's key card out with Dirty Rat. And only then he has a 50:50 chance.Before the miniset came out i had a self-made priest deck and a winrate approximately from 65 %.
After the miniset its fallen to 42 %
And i tried to change cards in my deck very often. But no success.
Its hard for priests in the moment.
Sorry for my bad english. My native language is German.
</pre>
I mean, any REAL control deck is doomed unless they nerf Brann, regardless of the class.
*and by nerf I mean change completely
It's not just Brann. There are plenty of OTK's from other classes, so you know if you're playing a bog standard control priest that you will almost certainly lose, as there's no way to consistently gain enough armour.
I think the main issue with control priest is that it doesn't consistently do well against aggro, it consistently loses against tempo decks (like Excavate Rogue), it get's out controlled by most control decks and it can do very little against combo decks ("kill them before..." isn't viable for control priest decks most of the time). Also consider that many OTK decks are now basically tempo decks with an OTK as backup and you can see why priest struggles.
People hate on Aman'thul and I get it - he's a frustrating card which generates huge value and can interrupt some board based win conditions by poofing the minions (and you usally face multiple copies of him). In all honesty though he often doesn't really do a great deal or he gets instantly stolen/copied. At least he costs mana to play though (as everything does for priest).
At this point it feels like every other class can do what priest does except they can usually do it better. Priest can win games, but I would say nearly every victory feels hard fought and you're always waiting for your opponent to shaft you.
It is a good card, a great card. But is not a game winning card. And that is kinda the problem. If all you are doing, your best cards, is not winning you the game...them what are you actually doing? When literally every other class can ALSO match your survavility (or they are straigh better) yours is kinda losing its point.
Playing Priest is a delicate matter.
How is your roping? No enough? Too much?
How is your emoting? Are you saying "Wow!" enough? Too much?
nah fuck that. priest needs to be deleted from the game. All they do is rope and discover.
I can't tell if you are missing the point accidentally or strategically. Yes, right now the endgame plan of control priest is drag out the game and systematically eliminate all threats in their opponents deck, while simultaneously generating as much value that they can to fuel this game of attrition.
OP is saying that this has become unfeasible and, as such, must be changed to no longer be the case. They want to end the current priest play style of long, last man standing strategy with something that allows the priest to bring about a decisive ending to the game without forcing their opponents to fatigue. Or, in other words, do something besides rope and discover.
Most other control decks do seem to have powerful "for the rest of the game" effects to build enough pressure to close our the game, if not combo one-shot like we saw with odyn warriors, but priests lack even the most basic of win conditions in standard. Even something like "for the rest of the game, healing enemies damage them instead" could be used to replace the current strategy of boring the enemy to death.
I know this has become something of a trope on these forums, I'm willing to wager that most decks on the ladder rejoice at the near free-win playing against a priest delivers. As a majority priest player myself, there are so many decks that are basically instant-loss to play against.
While true that priest can discover a lot, they're nowhere near as oppresive with discover as rogue and mage, and both usually gets to play the discovered stuff at a discount. Priest has 2 (maybe 3) cards are played which can discover a new card that didn't start in their deck (Identity Theft and Aman'Thul with Benevolent Banker sometimes being played but mostly just discovering from within their own deck. If they play Sister Svalna then of course they can discover a lot, but she's mostly a bit shit in a meta where you pay 6 mana to do nothing and then have to pay three mana to discover the spell. Obviously there's Creation Protocol as well but again that's only from within their own deck. Is playing against a 5th Aman'Thul frustrating? It sure is. But so is being 1-shot from 30 health with absolutely nothing outside or Rat or Theotar that you could do about it.
At this point the Dev's have basically forced priest to be a control deck and given there is no win condition, it basically has to be an attrition deck. Control decks are slow - that's just how it is.
p.s. do priests really rope more than anyone else? I've never noticed that pattern in my playing. In fact I rarely play against ropers and when I do face them a couple of turns of counter-roping seems to do the trick.
you know I actually agree with you...Mage and rogue are way more annoying than priest with discover. I just have a burning hate for the class since beta so my opinion is biased. I do win most of my matches against priest with whatever Im playing. I guess losing matches when Thoughtsteal was a thing has permanently skewed my opinion on the matter. Id actually rather play against priest than either Mage or rogue.
I don't think they want to give Priest more strong late-game values besides copy/discover more values, or else, the class will be on top of other classes and always drag long games, which is against their current game philosophy. Maybe they start giving more Control stuffs after the rotation once the current tools are rotated to Wild...
Other than Control decks, they have the Automation Priest, Overheal Priest, and Shadow Aggro Priest, which are all currently failing because they are Midrange Tempo decks and Priest Tempo cards suck or don't exist compared to the tempo tools of other classes (Rogue, DK, Paladin, Shaman, Mage, etc.) they were not even given the class-owned Excavate cards to get tempo cards. Priest just sucks at early and mid games.
I dont think most Priest players want to rope... their turns always take long rather because they always have to discover over and over again to make sure they are not screwed over the next few turns.. Like the OP said, they need 3x times the amount of skills and luck compared to other classes. So they rely a lot on the discovered cards...
Do you understand that one of the most important aspects of the Hero (the Hero power) dont favored midrange at all? People often dont understand why aggresive Priest strategiest dont last long but is usually because the Hero at core is not design to be fast is design to be SLOW. If they want to shift the class them rework the freaking class because just throw a bunch of random direct damage that wont last one rotation DONT WORK AT ALL. You are just taking space that can be use on more SLOW cards that actually WORK.
Now that that is off the topic i will procede with the other part. If as you said give it more late game stuff was against the game design...them why we have right now classes that can just generate cards over 30 turns until they get enough burst? Like DK or Rogue or Warrior are not actually fast wincons on a slow deck. If you perfect drawing yes but usually it takes time to set-up. I am not asking for stuff to draw the games to 60 turns consistenly but stuff to win the late game which is what Priest lacks right now. I feel like Priest is just suffering from Shaman syndrome but worse because atleast Shaman was a class design with a very shifty nature from the start that "kinda" makes sense as long as they keep bringing the spell school consistenly and the elementals. Because both are constants that just works. While Shadow Priest and the direct damage package dont really do something in other decks because priest is doing anything but being aggresive in literally any other approach.
Shadow priest excists you know, which makes the shadow power very attractive for aggressive gameplay.
My most wins are with Priest. I do feel it could be better.
People play Priest because they want to play control.
I think in the first few years of HS the devs thought that there should be a balance between aggro, control, combo, and midrange/tempo. But, as the years wore on I believe that philosophy changed. They decided that control was unfun, and the games were too long. So, they tried killing attrition control with a bunch of inevitable death cards. Cards you could slap one of in your deck and know that you wouldn't die to fatigue, but eventually your opponent would die if all they were doing was removal. They tried, and somewhat succeeded in making attrition control bad.
But, players still want to play control. So, they figure out way to keep winning with the playstyle that they enjoy.
In the past the devs would have fought this by making combo decks more powerful. But, I think that they decided that much like control, combo decks were unfun. So, they went another direction.
They reduced the power on both combo and control. No longer content to hamper control with tech cards or combo. The devs went for the jugular and just reduced the power of control cards relative to the power of aggro, midrange, and tempo. But, I think that they also decided that face hunter/pirate warrior were kinda unfun also. So, they really left all the power in the midrange.
And I think that's where we are today. The devs want most matches to be midrangey. Some slightly faster and looking more like aggro and some slightly slower and feeling more like combo. But essentially everything catering to a playstyle that ends the game in maybe 7 turns most of the time. I think this has been the driving paradigm for the game for a while now. Get games to the right length. Too fast and it's unfun, too long and it's unfun. Need games short enough to finish on a bathroom break. But not so short that you feel like you didn't get to play.
My guess is that most folks prefer this. And folks like myself that like a long game are frustrated. But, I guess we must not be a very large part of the player pool or blizz would cater to us more.
I agree with this, but this means that they need to figure out how to design Priest class and develop future cards based on this philosophy. Obviously, giving Control Priest removal tools to survive to the late games and discover spells to get more values is not healthy and scalable in the long run.... Im Control Priest main and already sick of playing this style..
I would love to see them give Priest back the outposts and then support them.
The outposts were actually pretty good cards and IMHO pretty good design. I don't think they ever needed nerfing, I just think they needed restricted to one class. Priest in particular where their defensive nature makes sense.
Some ideas:
Minion: When a outpost you control takes damage the enemy hero takes the same
Minion: Res a outpost, give it +2/+2
OUtpost: your hero has immune
Outpost: Your outposts have +1/+2
OUtpost: Overheal: Your minions gain health equal to the amount overhealed.
Spell: res all outposts
Legendary: Your outposts may attack heroes.
I remember the time when Priest was a strong class. I was roping every Priest I met on ladder. Was playing tempo deck myself but every single match usually lasted ~30 minutes cause Priest strategy was to make you concede. Luckily my job is perfect for that. I have never been this toxic before and i hope I won't ever be again. I also hope Control Priest players stay where they belong. Shadow priests - u are cool
Or... hear me out here... they just completely delete Priest and go ahead and make an entirely new class, the one they've skipped over to make their Hero classes... the Monk.
Since the in-game Monk can literally do everything - tank, heal, and dps - they can just go completely ham on making new, completely overpowered cards for this new class, and everyone can just shift their hate from Priests and their epicly un-fun ways of playing to these new ridiculous Monks who can win the game in every possible way that no other class can match up against, no matter what deck they're playing.
... I mean, it's not like this is a stretch. This is literally what Blizzard does every fucking rotation... every new expansion... every new miniset... it's just one broken ass super-trope after another.