I think the big problem with all classes is those bunch of 0 mana cost cards or massive cheat mana. If HS has a rule that the minimun cost for a card, which his base cost is not 0, would be 1 some major problems would solve. Like cards who draw 3 or 4 with 0 mana cost, or deal 3 4 dmg for 0, etc.
Sorry but endless scaling damage isnt exactly “pointless”. And mage is already drawing 4 cards for ZERO with cram session+ incanter’s flow + their quest reward so they already cheat out enough mana as it is. There has to be some sort of drawback for the infinite fireballs which currently does not exist
2 damage for 2 mana is good, 3 damage for 3 mana is maybe slightly better, 4 damage for 4 mana is worse, 5 damage for 5 mana is slightly better than 4. 6 damage for 6 mana is way worse. 7 damage for 7 mana is one of the worst only 9 is even worse. 8 and 10 are slightly better because those are semi-critical health totals (10 is a third of a players' total health, a lot of minions have 8 health).
You're not gaining much of anything by increasing the cost and damage like that. The card's ability to scale isn't really that important, it's that mage has an endless supply of burn spells in their deck. Combine that with the quest and you kind of have a problem.
But Ignite NEEDS the quest, the quest is good even without Ignite.
The worst part is there rly aint no way to balance Ignite w/o just murdering it, cuz the issue is the self-shuffling effect giving mage infinite dmg and thats what the card is played for, w/o it the class is just dead in standard.
The hero power buffs didnt do enough to rly get it off the ground, its still garbage. Since the class playrate is so low Blizz wont change anything, so whenever you queue up against mage it just feelsbadman.
What? Is that true? Isn't ignite good in pretty much any deck? I can't imagine not wanting it in a mage deck.
Let me clarify: it needs some sort of spell damage. 2 damage for 2 mana is extremely subpar, and the ability to go infinite is good in control match-ups, but those are non-existant atm.
The worst part is there rly aint no way to balance Ignite w/o just murdering it, cuz the issue is the self-shuffling effect giving mage infinite dmg and thats what the card is played for, w/o it the class is just dead in standard.
The hero power buffs didnt do enough to rly get it off the ground, its still garbage. Since the class playrate is so low Blizz wont change anything, so whenever you queue up against mage it just feelsbadman.
It REALLY isn't garbage. Wildfire is an insanely strong card now alone. And Mordresh is a huge tempo swing AND finisher.
It REALLY isn't garbage. Wildfire is an insanely strong card now alone. And Mordresh is a huge tempo swing AND finisher.
Tried every build I could think/find, Quest mage still better in every way. HP Mage just cant kill your opponent fast enough, its tier 3 at best. Any mage deck that doesnt abuse Incanter's Flow and RSW has zero chance of being good rn, hopefully that changes with the miniset.
It REALLY isn't garbage. Wildfire is an insanely strong card now alone. And Mordresh is a huge tempo swing AND finisher.
Tried every build I could think/find, Quest mage still better in every way. HP Mage just cant kill your opponent fast enough, its tier 3 at best. Any mage deck that doesnt abuse Incanter's Flow and RSW has zero chance of being good rn, hopefully that changes with the miniset.
I mean are you building for tempo? Because Hero Power Mage is absolutely a tempo deck. I regularly kill opponents by turn 8 with Mordresh which is about when Questline Mage does.
And you don't need to run big tempo loss cards like Incanter's Flow or plug your deck with slow/weak spells for RSW.
What? Is that true? Isn't ignite good in pretty much any deck? I can't imagine not wanting it in a mage deck.
Why on earth would you want a 2 mana deal 2 damage shuffle a pointless 2 mana deal 3 in your deck? Unless your whole deck was based on exactly card draw and spell power? Ignite is garbage if it doesn't fit exactly with what the deck wants to do, in the same way that no druid deck in wild runs jade just because "wow, such value". Clunking your future draws for a pointless 2 mana card that scales awfully slowly is a terrible plan.
It REALLY isn't garbage. Wildfire is an insanely strong card now alone. And Mordresh is a huge tempo swing AND finisher.
Tried every build I could think/find, Quest mage still better in every way. HP Mage just cant kill your opponent fast enough, its tier 3 at best. Any mage deck that doesnt abuse Incanter's Flow and RSW has zero chance of being good rn, hopefully that changes with the miniset.
Uh...you realise quest mage is tier 3...right? What you're saying it ping mage is just as good as quest mage then.
Uh...you realise quest mage is tier 3...right? What you're saying it ping mage is just as good as quest mage then.
That makes sense because Quest destroys slow decks, while Ping is better at handling aggro. Quest tends to beat Ping when they face off against each other because Ping has to play minions and Quest does not.
(OoZuNoO's comment about RSW is silly, of course, because Ping has plenty of minion-based draw.)
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Depends on the build I think. This version I've been running really doesn't struggle with greedy quest decks. It blows them up faster than it dies to them.
Uh...you realise quest mage is tier 3...right? What you're saying it ping mage is just as good as quest mage then.
Quest mage is lower tier 2 in hsreplay, it still has the significant role of countering crtl shaman and pirate warrior. That might change as the meta post-patch shifts, but thats how it is now. The best HP mage list remains lower tier 3 in comparison.
That makes sense because Quest destroys slow decks, while Ping is better at handling aggro. Quest tends to beat Ping when they face off against each other because Ping has to play minions and Quest does not.
(OoZuNoO's comment about RSW is silly, of course, because Ping has plenty of minion-based draw.)
Depends on the build I think. This version I've been running really doesn't struggle with greedy quest decks. It blows them up faster than it dies to them.
My issue with HP mage rn is that no matter how you build it, it feels like a much slower, less efficient version of shadow priest, looks too redundant to me. Your list looks fun though, I'd still probably find space for Wandmaker since Wildfire is 1 mana now.
Uh...you realise quest mage is tier 3...right? What you're saying it ping mage is just as good as quest mage then.
Quest mage is lower tier 2 in hsreplay, it still has the significant role of countering crtl shaman and pirate warrior. That might change as the meta post-patch shifts, but thats how it is now. The best HP mage list remains lower tier 3 in comparison.
That makes sense because Quest destroys slow decks, while Ping is better at handling aggro. Quest tends to beat Ping when they face off against each other because Ping has to play minions and Quest does not.
(OoZuNoO's comment about RSW is silly, of course, because Ping has plenty of minion-based draw.)
Depends on the build I think. This version I've been running really doesn't struggle with greedy quest decks. It blows them up faster than it dies to them.
My issue with HP mage rn is that no matter how you build it, it feels like a much slower, less efficient version of shadow priest, looks too redundant to me. Your list looks fun though, I'd still probably find space for Wandmaker since Wildfire is 1 mana now.
Well, Shadow Priest doesn't have nearly as much burn from hand is the main thing I'd say HP mage has over Shadow Priest. Mage also has a lot more card draw. They're actually pretty different decks. Shadow Priest is typically like a zoo/aggro build, while I think Wildfire Mage is built much more for tempo.
Wandmaker's a petty mediocre tempo card. But maybe in place of Wand Thief. First Flame, Primordial Studies, Brain Freeze, Devolving Missiles are all good hits.
Also Manafeeder Panthera is definitely good in HP mage.
I think the big issue with Hearthstonen isn't ignite at all - it's pretty much everything that's meta now. It's just not fun to play anymore - so little interaction, so many obviously OP cards (im mean OP in an objective context, not in synergy with anything else) so much infinite value (of which ignite is one of the problem cards), several OTK's, too much draw and mana cheat for some decks - and none for others.
They buffed a card to be a (conditional) 8/8/8 Deal 10 to all enemies and it's too slow for the game - that tells you the state this game is in.
They've created a rock-paper-scissor simulator, because most decks are so polarised now in their winrates it almost makes no sense to actually attempt to win in the unfavoured games. It's all about going face, face, face...
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I think the big problem with all classes is those bunch of 0 mana cost cards or massive cheat mana. If HS has a rule that the minimun cost for a card, which his base cost is not 0, would be 1 some major problems would solve. Like cards who draw 3 or 4 with 0 mana cost, or deal 3 4 dmg for 0, etc.
2 damage for 2 mana is good, 3 damage for 3 mana is maybe slightly better, 4 damage for 4 mana is worse, 5 damage for 5 mana is slightly better than 4. 6 damage for 6 mana is way worse. 7 damage for 7 mana is one of the worst only 9 is even worse. 8 and 10 are slightly better because those are semi-critical health totals (10 is a third of a players' total health, a lot of minions have 8 health).
You're not gaining much of anything by increasing the cost and damage like that. The card's ability to scale isn't really that important, it's that mage has an endless supply of burn spells in their deck. Combine that with the quest and you kind of have a problem.
But Ignite NEEDS the quest, the quest is good even without Ignite.
What? Is that true? Isn't ignite good in pretty much any deck? I can't imagine not wanting it in a mage deck.
The worst part is there rly aint no way to balance Ignite w/o just murdering it, cuz the issue is the self-shuffling effect giving mage infinite dmg and thats what the card is played for, w/o it the class is just dead in standard.
The hero power buffs didnt do enough to rly get it off the ground, its still garbage. Since the class playrate is so low Blizz wont change anything, so whenever you queue up against mage it just feelsbadman.
Let me clarify: it needs some sort of spell damage. 2 damage for 2 mana is extremely subpar, and the ability to go infinite is good in control match-ups, but those are non-existant atm.
It REALLY isn't garbage. Wildfire is an insanely strong card now alone. And Mordresh is a huge tempo swing AND finisher.
Tried every build I could think/find, Quest mage still better in every way. HP Mage just cant kill your opponent fast enough, its tier 3 at best. Any mage deck that doesnt abuse Incanter's Flow and RSW has zero chance of being good rn, hopefully that changes with the miniset.
I mean are you building for tempo? Because Hero Power Mage is absolutely a tempo deck. I regularly kill opponents by turn 8 with Mordresh which is about when Questline Mage does.
And you don't need to run big tempo loss cards like Incanter's Flow or plug your deck with slow/weak spells for RSW.
Why on earth would you want a 2 mana deal 2 damage shuffle a pointless 2 mana deal 3 in your deck? Unless your whole deck was based on exactly card draw and spell power? Ignite is garbage if it doesn't fit exactly with what the deck wants to do, in the same way that no druid deck in wild runs jade just because "wow, such value". Clunking your future draws for a pointless 2 mana card that scales awfully slowly is a terrible plan.
Uh...you realise quest mage is tier 3...right? What you're saying it ping mage is just as good as quest mage then.
That makes sense because Quest destroys slow decks, while Ping is better at handling aggro. Quest tends to beat Ping when they face off against each other because Ping has to play minions and Quest does not.
(OoZuNoO's comment about RSW is silly, of course, because Ping has plenty of minion-based draw.)
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Depends on the build I think. This version I've been running really doesn't struggle with greedy quest decks. It blows them up faster than it dies to them.
Quest mage is lower tier 2 in hsreplay, it still has the significant role of countering crtl shaman and pirate warrior. That might change as the meta post-patch shifts, but thats how it is now. The best HP mage list remains lower tier 3 in comparison.
You mean Starscryer? Manafeeder Panthara? Frostweave Dungeoneer? Sure hope not, cuz that would be hilarious.
My issue with HP mage rn is that no matter how you build it, it feels like a much slower, less efficient version of shadow priest, looks too redundant to me. Your list looks fun though, I'd still probably find space for Wandmaker since Wildfire is 1 mana now.
Well, Shadow Priest doesn't have nearly as much burn from hand is the main thing I'd say HP mage has over Shadow Priest. Mage also has a lot more card draw. They're actually pretty different decks. Shadow Priest is typically like a zoo/aggro build, while I think Wildfire Mage is built much more for tempo.
Wandmaker's a petty mediocre tempo card. But maybe in place of Wand Thief. First Flame, Primordial Studies, Brain Freeze, Devolving Missiles are all good hits.
Also Manafeeder Panthera is definitely good in HP mage.
have to agree with this smartass
that's gotta be the best most constructive argument on the HS meta I'v ever read
hell, more HS cards should be just as toxic as their WoW counterparts, don't you agree
I think the big issue with Hearthstonen isn't ignite at all - it's pretty much everything that's meta now. It's just not fun to play anymore - so little interaction, so many obviously OP cards (im mean OP in an objective context, not in synergy with anything else) so much infinite value (of which ignite is one of the problem cards), several OTK's, too much draw and mana cheat for some decks - and none for others.
They buffed a card to be a (conditional) 8/8/8 Deal 10 to all enemies and it's too slow for the game - that tells you the state this game is in.
They've created a rock-paper-scissor simulator, because most decks are so polarised now in their winrates it almost makes no sense to actually attempt to win in the unfavoured games. It's all about going face, face, face...