1) It greatly disadvantages average f2p players like me
2) It kills the creativity of the game.
I play at platinum rank and mainly self-brewed decks that I find fun to play and I manage to stir my deck and win sometimes also vs similarly ranked players who play tier 1/2 decks. Now what happens is that as soon as I have a decent win rate the system immediately and repeatedly matches me vs legend players who play high tier decks forcing me into loss streaks that push my rank back and making it almost impossible for me to progress. Mind, I have never been legend, mainly because I usually don't play meta decks but I can easily realise that my overall win rate now is a lot worse than it used to be with the old system.
So basically playing an off meta deck is a lot more punishing now and players are even more discouraged to do so than before. Also the fact that you're not matched to equally ranked players frustrates your effort to climb the ladder as an occasional player who does not play so often.
As long as this game has been going on, one thing has always been constant. If you want to ladder to legend, you have to play meta decks eventually.
Leave the home brews for casual if fun is what you are after. If not, accept that it is what it is, and you will remain stuck where you are if you can't adapt to the ranking system.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
Just by nature of the game you wouldn’t have made it in the old system to Legend aswell.
The f2p aspect isn’t as significant as you might think. Old guardian always post a couple f2p decks to get Legend with ( I believe this time he didn’t got it with Paladin and Shaman tho). I a, even myself hovering around Dia2 with a homebrew Paladin deck. Knowledge is way more important in terms of purely climbing than spending money.
Oh and creativity is out of the window as soon as it gets into the tryhard ranks and decks are refined in hours thanks to all kinds of decktracker websites and social media stuff.
So, you're not only complaining about your situation but call the new ranking system that affects all hearthstone players a disgrace.
Why? Because you want to play your homebrew decks (which are of a best case mediocre power level). Plus you want to climb on the ladder.
Can't you see that this cannot work? Who ever stated that ranked mode is for people who want to play subpar decks and win nevertheless enough times to advance in ranks?
If you want to play underpowered decks you, can always switch to casual. Many people complain there are netdeckers as well but maybe you just want to see if your own decks stand a chance against them?
Sorry but to call the ranking system a disgrace only because it doesn't favor your playstyle is very whiny and selfish as well.
The system doesn't hurt f2p players. Only players who don't want to spend time or money or energy on the game have a disadvantage but one should only consider this as fair.
Where do I say in my post that I want to make it to legend?
All I want to is not being overly punished for having a win streak. Seriously in the old system I never experienced the situation that whenever I had a win streak this was immediately followed by an inexplicable loss streak that pushed me all the way back. This is happening now!
Where do I say in my post that I want to make it to legend?
All I want to is not being overly punished for having a win streak. Seriously in the old system I never experienced the situation that whenever I had a win streak this was immediately followed by an inexplicable loss streak that pushed me all the way back. This is happening now!
You complain about getting losses tho....
Also, i heavily doubt you get matched against Legend players once you won a ( couple?) game(s). Yesterday i got added by two people, and both of them were exactly at my rank ( Dia 3 yesterday).
If you're playing legend rank players then it will be gutter rank, who also have a lower MMR. If you're playing a ranked mode of any game with an ineffective method, deck, team, build, whatever it is, then you're going to have problems. This is not unique to Hearthstone.
You either prioritise climbing and so use one of the decks suitable for that. There are actually quite a lot of different decks that will be effective, it isn't like it's pretty much one or two decks as the only viable options. Or you prioritise what you see as fun, which is making less effective decks but decks that you find more fun to use.
This month I've pretty much exclusively used a mage deck that I love. The win rate with this deck is fairly bad, about 42%, but it's super fun and most games feel very different because it relies on discover, the quest and randomly generated cards from things like mana cyclone. While it's really fun, I know that it gets absolutely crushed by any form of aggression. I have something like a 20% win rate against face Hunter and demon hunter.
I can't get past diamond 3 with it because it's just too inconsistent but I don't bitch about it, I know what I've signed up for. I could switch to highlander hunter and go to legend but I'm not bothered, I actually quite like playing a deck like this because I get a lot less frustrated about losing, I know it isn't an optimal deck. I'm playing it because I enjoy the way it plays.
When I was in legend last month I switched to this sake deck and it was absolutely awful, an even lower win % and it totally tanked my rank. I really didn't care though and I could see I was getting matched with diamond and platinum players because my win rate was so bad but that's exactly what the system is designed to do. I ended up winning more games as a result because I was playing worse players using worse decks but my win rate was probably that of a platinum player at the point, so the system was pretty effective.
How do you know you're constantly paired with legend players anyway? You can't see their rank and even if you friend a few people and can see they are at really low legend ranks, this will surely still be a lot less common than playing people at platinum or diamond?
You're going to be matched against poor players and/or decks at legend rather than good players with good decks at say, platinum 5. That's still probably better for you, surely?
If the deck is winning it should bump you up into better players. Sure it sucks that better players play good decks but that’s the way it goes. At least it’s a good indicator of how good your brew is. I think that’s a plus. No ranked system is perfect and there’s always a meta so just got to get used to it. Also rank is meaningless just play to have fun and enjoy a more skill intensive environment.
As long as this game has been going on, one thing has always been constant. If you want to ladder to legend, you have to play meta decks eventually.
Leave the home brews for casual if fun is what you are after. If not, accept that it is what it is, and you will remain stuck where you are if you can't adapt to the ranking system.
This. With previous ranking system you would climb some, then start seeing more and more tier 1 decks and drop down. The only difference now is that there is a floor below which you can't drop. So would you rather make it harder for others to climb, by deleting the floors, just because you happen to climb too high for your own potential? Then don't climb, concede the game, which would make you advance to the next floor.
If you are telling me that people used to climb to Legend with "homebrew" decks in the old ranking system, then it is simply not true.
As I said - stay in silver/gold, don't advance and enjoy your tier 2/3 meta. Closer to Legend it has always been the same, doesn't matter old or new system.
Ok I try to explain the issue a bit better. Common case scenario:
Win streak, and by win streak I don't mean a couple of wins but at least 4-5. It is obvious that at a certain point I start losing again and my win rate is readjusted, this was the case also with the old system. What happens to me now regularly is that EVERY TIME I have such a win streak it immediately follows a loss-streak at least just as long. Now THIS is new. And this is unfair because the system matches me with better players REGARDLESS of my rank and not just once but repeatedly. There is no other way to explain it.
This. With previous ranking system you would climb some, then started seeing more and more tier 1 decks and drop. The only difference now is that there is a floor below which you can't drop. So would you rather make it harder for others to climb, by deleting the floors, jsut because you happen to climb too high for your own potential? Then don't climb, concede the game, which would make you advance to the next floor.
What are you talking about? Floors have always been there. Maybe different but they prevented you to drop too much just like now
My issue with the matchmaking system is that I'm at bronze level and I play against legend-level decks. The reason? I only play like 5-10 games a month these days. I've moved on from the ladder, but play on rare occasions, to get my chest, etc., and play BGs a good amount. Before, I'd go 8-1 or so and call it a month, using a strong (at the time) deck. Now, because when you have the bonus stars you get matched using your MMR, I play against top level decks. I'm using Renolock and haven't updated my deck in over a year, so you can get an idea.
Yeah, I'm super casual and my opinion shouldn't really matter. Yeah, I can eventually get my MMR down by going 3-10 all the time. It just isn't worth it for the amount of time I want to spend on the game.
This. With previous ranking system you would climb some, then started seeing more and more tier 1 decks and drop. The only difference now is that there is a floor below which you can't drop. So would you rather make it harder for others to climb, by deleting the floors, jsut because you happen to climb too high for your own potential? Then don't climb, concede the game, which would make you advance to the next floor.
What are you talking about? Floors have always been there. Maybe different but they prevented you to drop too much just like now
The gaps were much wider. Now from one to another you can jump on like one winstreak within less than an hour.
I used to like the way the rankfloors worked - you would get plenty of matches at the floors- you could chill there, meme a little bit, find plenty of other players doing the same thing.
This new system has removed that. Every single fuckin match now, rank floor or not, its a meta deck off.
And for everyone saying you can't climb with homebrew...Bullshit. You either suck at deck building or you just suck in general - you have to get to mid-to-high legend ranks before you even reach a consistant level of skill that squeezes out homebrew options. Good decks essentially build themselves in hearthstone - when people who know what they are talking about say homebrew, they just mean tinkering around with comparable power-level cards.
For example I hit legend this month with my own bomb warrior variant which runs Skybarge and more reliance on pirates, but while actually dropping Ancharrr so i never have to worry about getting that back and missing out on shuffling even more bombs. I don't watch streamers or twitch at all, this was my own idea, i tested it out, and my numbers improved, suprised a few opponents with the sheer quantity of bombs i was shuffling, and so stuck with it. This is homebrewing. What half the people around here think of as homebrewing decks doesn't exist, because like I said, the baseline of a deck in hearthstone builds itself.
The better deckbuilders can define what this baseline is for the type of deck they want to build and go from there.
If your homebrew works, you get "rewarded" by playing vs higher MMR opponents, who will more likely beat you with metadecks. This was the same before, just that the rank system was more transparent.
No, you don't get punished for winning more now.
The ladder is much, much easier to climb now, to the point where nobody will care about ranks below legend soon.
Now what happens is that as soon as I have a decent win rate the system immediately and repeatedly matches me vs legend players who play high tier decks forcing me into loss streaks that push my rank back and making it almost impossible for me to progress.
Sounds like you have about a fifty percent win-rate, overall, with an off-meta deck. In terms of game design, is that really a huge problem? Because it sounds like you're doing better than a lot of us (save for yourself) would expect.
I've actually found that the new matchmaking system increases creativity and makes it easier to play off-meta decks as well as seeing a greater variety of decks. Before the new system, everyone was matched by rank and everyone was climbing at the same speed (meaning one win=one star gained and 2 for win streaks). Usually, this would mean that at the beginning of a new season, everyone would only play meta decks in order to get back to their usual rank, and playing around with a homebrew or off-meta deck would be extremely punishing. Now, with the star bonus system, playing weird decks is not as punishing - even if you win one game for every two you lose, you're still climbing. Before, I would never play sub-par decks or even decks I was unfamiliar with before I reached good ol' rank five. Now, I just play whatever I want! And because you're matched by MMR rather than rank, you'll also be matched with people who're done climbing and just messing around, having fun,
tl;dr: Before, everyone was tryharding between ranks and losing was extremely punishing. Now, there's more opportunity to have fun and play against people of equal skill while still climbing to reach your skill floor.
It does two things:
1) It greatly disadvantages average f2p players like me
2) It kills the creativity of the game.
I play at platinum rank and mainly self-brewed decks that I find fun to play and I manage to stir my deck and win sometimes also vs similarly ranked players who play tier 1/2 decks. Now what happens is that as soon as I have a decent win rate the system immediately and repeatedly matches me vs legend players who play high tier decks forcing me into loss streaks that push my rank back and making it almost impossible for me to progress. Mind, I have never been legend, mainly because I usually don't play meta decks but I can easily realise that my overall win rate now is a lot worse than it used to be with the old system.
So basically playing an off meta deck is a lot more punishing now and players are even more discouraged to do so than before. Also the fact that you're not matched to equally ranked players frustrates your effort to climb the ladder as an occasional player who does not play so often.
Just my two cents
As long as this game has been going on, one thing has always been constant. If you want to ladder to legend, you have to play meta decks eventually.
Leave the home brews for casual if fun is what you are after. If not, accept that it is what it is, and you will remain stuck where you are if you can't adapt to the ranking system.
Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
A .gif is worth a thousand words.
Just by nature of the game you wouldn’t have made it in the old system to Legend aswell.
The f2p aspect isn’t as significant as you might think. Old guardian always post a couple f2p decks to get Legend with ( I believe this time he didn’t got it with Paladin and Shaman tho). I a, even myself hovering around Dia2 with a homebrew Paladin deck. Knowledge is way more important in terms of purely climbing than spending money.
Oh and creativity is out of the window as soon as it gets into the tryhard ranks and decks are refined in hours thanks to all kinds of decktracker websites and social media stuff.
So, you're not only complaining about your situation but call the new ranking system that affects all hearthstone players a disgrace.
Why? Because you want to play your homebrew decks (which are of a best case mediocre power level). Plus you want to climb on the ladder.
Can't you see that this cannot work? Who ever stated that ranked mode is for people who want to play subpar decks and win nevertheless enough times to advance in ranks?
If you want to play underpowered decks you, can always switch to casual. Many people complain there are netdeckers as well but maybe you just want to see if your own decks stand a chance against them?
Sorry but to call the ranking system a disgrace only because it doesn't favor your playstyle is very whiny and selfish as well.
The system doesn't hurt f2p players. Only players who don't want to spend time or money or energy on the game have a disadvantage but one should only consider this as fair.
Where do I say in my post that I want to make it to legend?
All I want to is not being overly punished for having a win streak. Seriously in the old system I never experienced the situation that whenever I had a win streak this was immediately followed by an inexplicable loss streak that pushed me all the way back. This is happening now!
The new system works with powerful bonus stars and more floors you can't fall below.
If you're good and your deck is capable of climbing you should gain more ranks than lose. Especially if you play below diamond 5.
So you could say it should be easier with the new system than before.
You complain about getting losses tho....
Also, i heavily doubt you get matched against Legend players once you won a ( couple?) game(s). Yesterday i got added by two people, and both of them were exactly at my rank ( Dia 3 yesterday).
If you're playing legend rank players then it will be gutter rank, who also have a lower MMR. If you're playing a ranked mode of any game with an ineffective method, deck, team, build, whatever it is, then you're going to have problems. This is not unique to Hearthstone.
You either prioritise climbing and so use one of the decks suitable for that. There are actually quite a lot of different decks that will be effective, it isn't like it's pretty much one or two decks as the only viable options. Or you prioritise what you see as fun, which is making less effective decks but decks that you find more fun to use.
This month I've pretty much exclusively used a mage deck that I love. The win rate with this deck is fairly bad, about 42%, but it's super fun and most games feel very different because it relies on discover, the quest and randomly generated cards from things like mana cyclone. While it's really fun, I know that it gets absolutely crushed by any form of aggression. I have something like a 20% win rate against face Hunter and demon hunter.
I can't get past diamond 3 with it because it's just too inconsistent but I don't bitch about it, I know what I've signed up for. I could switch to highlander hunter and go to legend but I'm not bothered, I actually quite like playing a deck like this because I get a lot less frustrated about losing, I know it isn't an optimal deck. I'm playing it because I enjoy the way it plays.
When I was in legend last month I switched to this sake deck and it was absolutely awful, an even lower win % and it totally tanked my rank. I really didn't care though and I could see I was getting matched with diamond and platinum players because my win rate was so bad but that's exactly what the system is designed to do. I ended up winning more games as a result because I was playing worse players using worse decks but my win rate was probably that of a platinum player at the point, so the system was pretty effective.
How do you know you're constantly paired with legend players anyway? You can't see their rank and even if you friend a few people and can see they are at really low legend ranks, this will surely still be a lot less common than playing people at platinum or diamond?
You're going to be matched against poor players and/or decks at legend rather than good players with good decks at say, platinum 5. That's still probably better for you, surely?
If the deck is winning it should bump you up into better players. Sure it sucks that better players play good decks but that’s the way it goes. At least it’s a good indicator of how good your brew is. I think that’s a plus. No ranked system is perfect and there’s always a meta so just got to get used to it. Also rank is meaningless just play to have fun and enjoy a more skill intensive environment.
Of course I mean after finishing the bonus stars. The bonus stars are there because everybody restarts from the same rank
This. With previous ranking system you would climb some, then start seeing more and more tier 1 decks and drop down. The only difference now is that there is a floor below which you can't drop. So would you rather make it harder for others to climb, by deleting the floors, just because you happen to climb too high for your own potential? Then don't climb, concede the game, which would make you advance to the next floor.
If you are telling me that people used to climb to Legend with "homebrew" decks in the old ranking system, then it is simply not true.
As I said - stay in silver/gold, don't advance and enjoy your tier 2/3 meta. Closer to Legend it has always been the same, doesn't matter old or new system.
Ok I try to explain the issue a bit better. Common case scenario:
Win streak, and by win streak I don't mean a couple of wins but at least 4-5. It is obvious that at a certain point I start losing again and my win rate is readjusted, this was the case also with the old system. What happens to me now regularly is that EVERY TIME I have such a win streak it immediately follows a loss-streak at least just as long. Now THIS is new. And this is unfair because the system matches me with better players REGARDLESS of my rank and not just once but repeatedly. There is no other way to explain it.
What are you talking about? Floors have always been there. Maybe different but they prevented you to drop too much just like now
My issue with the matchmaking system is that I'm at bronze level and I play against legend-level decks. The reason? I only play like 5-10 games a month these days. I've moved on from the ladder, but play on rare occasions, to get my chest, etc., and play BGs a good amount. Before, I'd go 8-1 or so and call it a month, using a strong (at the time) deck. Now, because when you have the bonus stars you get matched using your MMR, I play against top level decks. I'm using Renolock and haven't updated my deck in over a year, so you can get an idea.
Yeah, I'm super casual and my opinion shouldn't really matter. Yeah, I can eventually get my MMR down by going 3-10 all the time. It just isn't worth it for the amount of time I want to spend on the game.
The gaps were much wider. Now from one to another you can jump on like one winstreak within less than an hour.
I used to like the way the rankfloors worked - you would get plenty of matches at the floors- you could chill there, meme a little bit, find plenty of other players doing the same thing.
This new system has removed that. Every single fuckin match now, rank floor or not, its a meta deck off.
And for everyone saying you can't climb with homebrew...Bullshit. You either suck at deck building or you just suck in general - you have to get to mid-to-high legend ranks before you even reach a consistant level of skill that squeezes out homebrew options. Good decks essentially build themselves in hearthstone - when people who know what they are talking about say homebrew, they just mean tinkering around with comparable power-level cards.
For example I hit legend this month with my own bomb warrior variant which runs Skybarge and more reliance on pirates, but while actually dropping Ancharrr so i never have to worry about getting that back and missing out on shuffling even more bombs. I don't watch streamers or twitch at all, this was my own idea, i tested it out, and my numbers improved, suprised a few opponents with the sheer quantity of bombs i was shuffling, and so stuck with it. This is homebrewing. What half the people around here think of as homebrewing decks doesn't exist, because like I said, the baseline of a deck in hearthstone builds itself.
The better deckbuilders can define what this baseline is for the type of deck they want to build and go from there.
If your homebrew works, you get "rewarded" by playing vs higher MMR opponents, who will more likely beat you with metadecks. This was the same before, just that the rank system was more transparent.
No, you don't get punished for winning more now.
The ladder is much, much easier to climb now, to the point where nobody will care about ranks below legend soon.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Sounds like you have about a fifty percent win-rate, overall, with an off-meta deck. In terms of game design, is that really a huge problem? Because it sounds like you're doing better than a lot of us (save for yourself) would expect.
I've actually found that the new matchmaking system increases creativity and makes it easier to play off-meta decks as well as seeing a greater variety of decks. Before the new system, everyone was matched by rank and everyone was climbing at the same speed (meaning one win=one star gained and 2 for win streaks). Usually, this would mean that at the beginning of a new season, everyone would only play meta decks in order to get back to their usual rank, and playing around with a homebrew or off-meta deck would be extremely punishing. Now, with the star bonus system, playing weird decks is not as punishing - even if you win one game for every two you lose, you're still climbing. Before, I would never play sub-par decks or even decks I was unfamiliar with before I reached good ol' rank five. Now, I just play whatever I want! And because you're matched by MMR rather than rank, you'll also be matched with people who're done climbing and just messing around, having fun,
tl;dr: Before, everyone was tryharding between ranks and losing was extremely punishing. Now, there's more opportunity to have fun and play against people of equal skill while still climbing to reach your skill floor.
Something certainly is