I like to play with aggro decks and don't see any problem with MTC. You should be able to win before the Double steal or in the next turn when this was played. BTW, we have a tendency in just remember when MTC steal the best Minions.
I'm never really sure how to evaluate expansive statements like this, a lot of reasoning is subjective, so I've had a look at the very handy cards tab on HS Replay - https://hsreplay.net/cards/
If I sort this by, first of all, the deck win rate, the top ten cards here are primarily murlocs, which, predictably pop up in roughly 6%-10% of meta decks. At the time of my looking at this, there were a few Hunter Cards sprinkled in here.
So, with another tack, lets sort by times played and we get a very different set of results. I saw Zilliax, Snip-Snap, Evil Cable Rat, Questing Explorer and Sludge Slurper making up the top 5. Lastly, sorting by played win rate, plenty of well known finishers pop up here with varied rates.
Zeroing on MCT himself, he pops up in 13.% of decks with a win rate of 48.3 as someone else has said. Personally, that isn't enough in my view to Hof him. He is one of the few tools open to Hunters and Druids to deal with wide boards from the Classic Set.
Oh the argument of "play around stuff". Like seriously? You want to beat a Quest shaman who completed his quest with only 3 minions on board for the WHOLE match just to play around a high-roll Mind Control Tech? How are you suppose to kill them and regain the board when they just spam tokens and generate value at the same time, while maintaining their health with Lifedrinker.
Mind Control Tech is kind of an okay tech but the fact that it was removed from Arena speaks volume about its powerlevel, and now Shaman has a chance to steal two minions in one turn with the Hero Power, but that doesn't mean we should hall of fame him.
Your "win" condition against this deck is just to beat them before they beat you, if it gets out of control Blizzard will probably make the quest require 7-8 minions to complete, but as it stands its just a nuisance of deck that we have to deal with.
Oh the argument of "play around stuff". Like seriously? You want to beat a Quest shaman who completed his quest with only 3 minions on board for the WHOLE match just to play around a high-roll Mind Control Tech? How are you suppose to kill them and regain the board when they just spam tokens and generate value at the same time, while maintaining their health with Lifedrinker.
Obviously, "play around it" only applies if you are playing a deck that stands a chance in the first place.
If you are playing a deck that cannot win without going wide, you are not going to beat Quest Shaman, and that's OK.
Accept that this is a bad match-up for your deck and move on.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I guess someone just lose to Quest Shaman. This deck wasn't even playable until Mage and Warrior nerf, and now it is doing just fine.
Guess what ? if you don't play around stuff, you get punished, that's just how Hearthstone work.
If you see a lot of quest shaman on ladder (which is the case right now), just play a deck that have a good winrate against them and you should be fine.
Thanks for your input. I still won the game as well as 7/8 against quest shaman, but that card in that deck is going to be a problem for the next 1 1/2 - 2 years if it doesn't get hall of famed. However the deck will be gutted come next rotation but something tells me double battlecry effects will continue to be good. The developers made a good point last rotation when they said the card goes mostly unplayed throughout a meta but then it comes back in certain decks and creates problems. This is one of those times. Thank you for misconstruing my contempt for one card as contempt for a deck I actually like playing against.
His point still stands. Doesn’t matter the deck. You know the MC tech play is coming so play around it.
MCTech is an awful card to lose against. You are playing well, feel you can win, and then it steals your best minion(s.) It's a card that makes you hate the game. It really should be retired.
2 people so far have it spot on. You play around it and easy to do. Always a danger to over play your side of the board and leaving you with little left in your hand. You know they have it and that is a benefit to you. It's predictable. It causes a dead card in their hand.
Part of the problem with having a fixed meta is the predictability of decks. You know what your opponent is going to do. You play around it to counter. That is how you win matches. You know you are playing an unskilled player when they dump their hand in a turn or two.
Playing a zoo deck and limiting yourself to 3 minions will not win you any match by the way. Just so you know. Dumping hand in a turn or two is actually a valid strategy for certain decks in order to gain complete dominance of the board early just so they have a chance to win, its called going all in to win or lose if you dont.
This is the card with a dismal 48.3% played winrate on HS replay right? A worse played winrate than Murloc Raider? Okey doke, sounds like a legit complaint.
I would imagine that's because you only play it when your opponent has a lot of minions on the board, which means you're probably already losing. Played winrates can't always be taken at face value.
This is the card with a dismal 48.3% played winrate on HS replay right? A worse played winrate than Murloc Raider? Okey doke, sounds like a legit complaint.
I would imagine that's because you only play it when your opponent has a lot of minions on the board, which means you're probably already losing. Played winrates can't always be taken at face value.
So what if you mainly play it when you're "already losing? All that means is it was a dead card up to that point showing just how situational it is (as a tech card should be). It's not a card you typically want in the Mulligan that has significant bearing when played on curve and it's not a finisher which would be the two most common types of card with skewed played win rates.
Yes stats can't always be taken at face value but it's going to take more than this to convince me a card with a worse winrate than a neutral 2/1 vanilla minion is OP.
5 mana 3/3, Battlecry: Summon two random minions and destroy two random enemy minions.
If this was a card (which it kinda is now) it would be potentially the best minion in the game.
The thing about not over playing your board the same way you do against something like brawl is that 1. Brawl punishes both sides 2. Decks that expectedly clear boards arnt typically creating threatening ones you need to match 3. MCT doesn’t just deplete your resources, it gives fuel to the opponent.
The board swing potential of the card is absurd, and what makes it feel even worse is the rng.
The deck is difficult to out value, so in many cases you can’t sit there on three minions waiting for some perfect moment, or you’ll be dead to 14+ face damage from hand.
The problem with MCT is not that he is OP, the problem is that MCT very high-rolly and tilt inducing. MCT should be reworked, to "If your opponent has 4 or more minions, steal the low cost/attack/health minion".
There are other ways around it also: - play a board full of big minions (the loss of one shouldn't hurt too much if you have many more);
Oh wow, thank you for this great advice xD
Disliking the solution doesn't stop it from being the solution. Even with your unnecessarily sarcastic comment. If you've ever actually played Quest Shaman you'd understand why this becomes a problem for you and how effective this is as a counter.
The card is fine by itself, but rather broken in Quest shaman. It's a tempo deck, you need board presence to beat them in the mid/lategame (unless you stack boarclears in your deck). It's not even that bad vs zoo/aggro, but vs any slower / midrange is very unfair, creating a lose-lose situations.
MCTech is an awful card to lose against. You are playing well, feel you can win, and then it steals your best minion(s.) It's a card that makes you hate the game. It really should be retired.
Replace MCTech with:
Phaoris
Zephrys
Dinotamer Bran
Leeroy Jenkins
Etc... you get the idea. Your statement still stands as completely true.
Sometimes a win gets stolen from you in a tilting way, and that's ok. It does not mean a card needs a hit from the nerf bat, or to be HoF'd.
I took great delight in busting a murloc paladins ass for him just now with shaman quest hero power MCT playing back to back turns after he got cute with his tip the scales bullshit.
Guess what ? if you don't play around stuff, you get punished, that's just how Hearthstone work.
If you see a lot of quest shaman on ladder (which is the case right now), just play a deck that have a good winrate against them and you should be fine.
According to your logic sir, no nerfs ever should've happened in this game. People could just play the decks to counter the strong one. But it's not how it works. Member when Elysiana got nerfed just to improve player experience? It wasn't necessarily op or anything. MCT is not a healthy card for standard right now. You can argue that it is, but what you say is completely irrelevant. Otherwise no one would complain about the worst played winrate card in the deck.
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I like to play with aggro decks and don't see any problem with MTC. You should be able to win before the Double steal or in the next turn when this was played. BTW, we have a tendency in just remember when MTC steal the best Minions.
I'm never really sure how to evaluate expansive statements like this, a lot of reasoning is subjective, so I've had a look at the very handy cards tab on HS Replay - https://hsreplay.net/cards/
If I sort this by, first of all, the deck win rate, the top ten cards here are primarily murlocs, which, predictably pop up in roughly 6%-10% of meta decks. At the time of my looking at this, there were a few Hunter Cards sprinkled in here.
So, with another tack, lets sort by times played and we get a very different set of results. I saw Zilliax, Snip-Snap, Evil Cable Rat, Questing Explorer and Sludge Slurper making up the top 5. Lastly, sorting by played win rate, plenty of well known finishers pop up here with varied rates.
Zeroing on MCT himself, he pops up in 13.% of decks with a win rate of 48.3 as someone else has said. Personally, that isn't enough in my view to Hof him. He is one of the few tools open to Hunters and Druids to deal with wide boards from the Classic Set.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
Oh the argument of "play around stuff". Like seriously? You want to beat a Quest shaman who completed his quest with only 3 minions on board for the WHOLE match just to play around a high-roll Mind Control Tech? How are you suppose to kill them and regain the board when they just spam tokens and generate value at the same time, while maintaining their health with Lifedrinker.
Mind Control Tech is kind of an okay tech but the fact that it was removed from Arena speaks volume about its powerlevel, and now Shaman has a chance to steal two minions in one turn with the Hero Power, but that doesn't mean we should hall of fame him.
Your "win" condition against this deck is just to beat them before they beat you, if it gets out of control Blizzard will probably make the quest require 7-8 minions to complete, but as it stands its just a nuisance of deck that we have to deal with.
Obviously, "play around it" only applies if you are playing a deck that stands a chance in the first place.
If you are playing a deck that cannot win without going wide, you are not going to beat Quest Shaman, and that's OK.
Accept that this is a bad match-up for your deck and move on.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
His point still stands. Doesn’t matter the deck. You know the MC tech play is coming so play around it.
Been playing around MCT for 4 years now, hence, why I only play control or combo decks haha
The whole quest shaman is annoying and the quest needs to be much harder than turn 4,5 or more expensive to activate
MCTech is an awful card to lose against. You are playing well, feel you can win, and then it steals your best minion(s.) It's a card that makes you hate the game. It really should be retired.
Which is why zoo has a low winrate
I would imagine that's because you only play it when your opponent has a lot of minions on the board, which means you're probably already losing. Played winrates can't always be taken at face value.
So what if you mainly play it when you're "already losing? All that means is it was a dead card up to that point showing just how situational it is (as a tech card should be). It's not a card you typically want in the Mulligan that has significant bearing when played on curve and it's not a finisher which would be the two most common types of card with skewed played win rates.
Yes stats can't always be taken at face value but it's going to take more than this to convince me a card with a worse winrate than a neutral 2/1 vanilla minion is OP.
Agreed that this card is simply too strong in Quest Shaman, and it probably adds around 10% to the winrate of the deck.
Shaman can flood the board, yet me playing Quest Warlock for example, can't play any of my key cards to attack or even defend.
Please HoF it.
New card: Double down Clown
5 mana 3/3, Battlecry: Summon two random minions and destroy two random enemy minions.
If this was a card (which it kinda is now) it would be potentially the best minion in the game.
The thing about not over playing your board the same way you do against something like brawl is that 1. Brawl punishes both sides 2. Decks that expectedly clear boards arnt typically creating threatening ones you need to match 3. MCT doesn’t just deplete your resources, it gives fuel to the opponent.
The board swing potential of the card is absurd, and what makes it feel even worse is the rng.
The deck is difficult to out value, so in many cases you can’t sit there on three minions waiting for some perfect moment, or you’ll be dead to 14+ face damage from hand.
The problem with MCT is not that he is OP, the problem is that MCT very high-rolly and tilt inducing. MCT should be reworked, to "If your opponent has 4 or more minions, steal the low cost/attack/health minion".
Oh wow, thank you for this great advice xD
Disliking the solution doesn't stop it from being the solution. Even with your unnecessarily sarcastic comment.
If you've ever actually played Quest Shaman you'd understand why this becomes a problem for you and how effective this is as a counter.
The card is fine by itself, but rather broken in Quest shaman.
It's a tempo deck, you need board presence to beat them in the mid/lategame (unless you stack boarclears in your deck). It's not even that bad vs zoo/aggro, but vs any slower / midrange is very unfair, creating a lose-lose situations.
Replace MCTech with:
Phaoris
Zephrys
Dinotamer Bran
Leeroy Jenkins
Etc... you get the idea. Your statement still stands as completely true.
Sometimes a win gets stolen from you in a tilting way, and that's ok. It does not mean a card needs a hit from the nerf bat, or to be HoF'd.
Side note, 9:50am EST...
I took great delight in busting a murloc paladins ass for him just now with shaman quest hero power MCT playing back to back turns after he got cute with his tip the scales bullshit.
According to your logic sir, no nerfs ever should've happened in this game. People could just play the decks to counter the strong one. But it's not how it works. Member when Elysiana got nerfed just to improve player experience? It wasn't necessarily op or anything. MCT is not a healthy card for standard right now. You can argue that it is, but what you say is completely irrelevant. Otherwise no one would complain about the worst played winrate card in the deck.