Yes. This is a detailed thesis about the power level of Genn Greymane and Baku the Mooneater. Yes. I will write about which is better as a card, and as a multitude of archetypes for decks. This is a deadly combination of spare time and passion to write. This is geared towards experienced HS players but is written to be understood by all. Lastly, this was written BEFORE Rastakhan's Rumble was released. I did not attend Blizzcon, so I have not played any preview Tavern Brawl or anything of the sort. HSReplay is my main source.
Genn Greymane is a 6 mana 6 attack/5 health neutral legendary from the Witchwood set. With this in your deck, your hero power will cost 1 (instead of 2) mana assuming all cards in your deck are even. This effect occurs AFTER the initial mill phase. You can theoretically have 4 odd cards in your deck, and still have Genn's effect trigger (Assuming you draw them). You CAN have a quest in the deck and always get Genn's effect to go off, as long as you keep the quest in your opening hand. If Genn is in your deck and you do not meet the all even cards condition, no animation will occur. If you do meet the condition, your opponent will know. If you change your hero power at all, the cost reduction does not stick.
Baku the Mooneater is a 9 mana 7 attack/8 health neutral legendary from the Witchwood set. Similarly to Genn, if your deck only has Odd cards, your hero power will stay at 2 mana, but is upgraded. The upgrade to your hero power is the same that would occur with Justicar Trueheart.
I to remember which is which, I use the trick "Deck is even, hero power is odd and vice versa."
Now for the actual analysis.
The cards themselves are pretty bad. They essentially have no text on the card. For no text minions, I use the formula (H+A)/2M=P. A minion's health and attack divided by twice its mana cost equals its "power level." So, an "average" power level for a blank card would be 1.0. Putting the minions on trial, Genn pulls a 0.916. Baku pulls a mere 0.833. So both of these cards are bad by themselves, but Genn is a slightly better drop than Baku. I don't consider this into which is better because you will put them in their respective decks anyways.
Next, we consider the power of their effects.
There are 4 main Odd archetypes. Paladin, Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter. Even decks have 3 meta spots, with Paly, Warlock, and Shaman. Odd Paly has been the top of the meta for what seems like most of Boomsday, with Odd Rogue, Even Paly, and Even Shaman coming in at second through fourth places in varying orders. Odd Rogue occasionally pops up above Odd Paly, but only occasionally. Odd Warrior is a solid deck but only holds a tier 2 spot. It is a Whizbang deck, with the taunt quest. Odd Hunter isn't even that solid of a deck, it depends on a good draw and is just a super aggro deck.
We'll go more into depth with Paly, as it is the only class with tier 1 even and odd decks. Even Paly's strength is the ability to hero power on most turns. It has a flexible curve, with a hero power on most turns. Odd Paly's strength is that it floods the board with its hero power and it has more synergies with its wide board. Also, Odd Paly's synergies are strong with a wide board of silver hand recruits but can work with any wide board. Raid Leader can work with any minions, while Lightfused Stegodon only affects silver hand recruits.
One more thing that I want to point out, In an Odd deck, you can play Raza the Chained. It is unrealistic to have an odd unique deck, as you are passing up on Reno Jackson and Kazakus, but I wouldn't be surprised to see HysteriA do some BS world record combo with it.
Moving along to a conclusion,
Overall, both Genn and Baku's effects are powerful and meta-defining. Each can be played in its own way (Odd Warrior is Control, Odd Hunter is Aggro, Odd/Even Paly, Even Shaman, Even Warlock and Odd Rogue are midrange). I can't label one as straight-up better than the other because of the variance in hero powers.
I've seen Even and Odd Mage. Both are off meta and similar in power level. I rank Odd mage over Even Mage because of the cards, not really the hero power. 1 mana deal 1 damage is pretty equal to 2 mana deal 2 damage.
Druid is similar to Mage. Druid has so little odd/even decks that it doesn't show up on HSReplay. I can't say that Even or Odd is better because they both suck on here
Hunter is a no-brainer. Odd hunter isn't a top tier deck but is probably the most aggressive deck. Most aggressive minions (Hunter and Neutral) are odd, so there you have it.
Paly is a toss-up because both Even and Odd paly are top of the meta. I like odd more, because I played it as my first deck this expansion, but I'm not picking favorites. So this one's a draw.
Priest is with druid, I never see even or odd, so no contest.
Odd Rogue is top tier, so that's that.
Even Shaman is top tier, and it's the only tier 1 or 2 shaman deck, so there ya have it.
Even Warlock has the ability to get an 8/8 giant out onto the field on turn 3, another on turn 4, and a 4/10 dragon on turns 5 and 6. The upgraded hero power is just really bad, so Even blows this one out of the water
Odd warrior was going strong for a while but started to die down around the middle of the expansion. Even never competed, so Baku wins warrior.
There ya have it.
Thanks for reading this disorganized Charlie Foxtrot of a thesis.
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I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
This effect occurs AFTER the initial mill phase. You can theoretically have 4 odd cards in your deck, and still have Genn's effect trigger (Assuming you draw them). You CAN have a quest in the deck and always get Genn's effect to go off, as long as you keep the quest in your opening hand.
I don't think this is true.
I usually think of it as the even HP is for tempo, and the odd HP is for value. Seems weird at first thought because odd decks are mostly aggro, but there is so much value in pressing the button as Paladin, Warrior, and Rogue. Where as the even decks are consistent tempo. Pally and Shaman feel like you always have something to buff. That's really the strength. a 1 mana 1/1 or totem doesn't seem like much but they have synergy and consistency. Drawing a card is another kind of tempo and it lets you drop/find big threats early and often.
I tend to prefer the even decks. Even shaman and warlock are two of my favorite decks to play. I don't have even paladin but it's the deck i'm looking to craft next, though i would like to try it first but none of my friends have it.
As far as Genn vs Baku as playable cards themself, Genn is much more playable even if his stat ratio is only slightly higher. Genn is at least a threat that you can play plus another card and maybe even a hero power. Baku is an entire turn and isn't really much of a threat for his cost. Genn also fits most of the deck styles he's in more. He's a midrange minion with beefy attack. Baku is a completely dead card in most games.
I'm really interested to see what will be around after the rotation with these even/odd decks.
I like genn more. He takes more skill. Although most of his decks do center aggro, not all do (even paladin and even warlock), however, baku is almost 100% aggro based.
I've personally never seen or played an odd shaman because the upgraded hero power is weak. There was a post on r/customhearthstone with a new version of the upgraded hero power. It summons a random upgraded basic totem
1/1--->2/2
0/2 taunt---> 0/2 taunt, divine shield
0/2 spell damage +1---> 0/2 spell damage +2
0/2 EOT restore 1 to all friendly minions----> 0/2 EOT restore 2 to all friendly characters
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I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
I've personally never seen or played an odd shaman because the upgraded hero power is weak. There was a post on r/customhearthstone with a new version of the upgraded hero power. It summons a random upgraded basic totem
1/1--->2/2
0/2 taunt---> 0/2 taunt, divine shield
0/2 spell damage +1---> 0/2 spell damage +2
0/2 EOT restore 1 to all friendly minions----> 0/2 EOT restore 2 to all friendly characters
this is what it should have been i think, however I see that a few other classes should have likewise gotten a different upgrade, like Warlock maybe.
Odd Druid is getting a lot of cards to support it from Team 5, but is probably going to be tier 3 at best (Pending new reveals) for the reason that you have to hit into minions a lot. The armor gain probably won't be enough to offset the damage.
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I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
Even Shaman is an absolutely bonkers deck. It might not be the powerhouse of Standard but in Wild this deck is pretty much unstoppable.
I play Odd Rogue in Wild and have to say I absolutely hate going against Even Shaman. Their Eel pretty much eats up any 1 or 2 drop I have on the board, and the two attack weapon is often wasted on having to kill totems every turn.
Why is this even a question for debate? clearly Odd is better, it's easier to come up with an odd archetype than an even one, the odd hero power is drastically more powerful because it doesn't require synergy on it's own to get good value out of it.
Literally the only reason Warlock goes even purely for the fact that it can play Giant on turn 3. Shaman is even only because of Eel and turn 1 hero power into Flametougne.
Paladin, Rogue, and Warrior is just self explanatory and doesn't require synergy, the synergy the decks have are just the cherry on top because their hero power carries.
Until now I don't understand why the hunter-heropower only gets up to 3 while warrior is allowed to armor up by 4
An error in judgment, most likely.
Clearly, the Hunter enhanced hero power couldn't go up to 4 damage. That'd just be too strong. However, I think Blizzard underestimated the impact of a doubled hero power for warrior. With Justicar Trueheart, I think things were a bit more balanced, since you couldn't start 4-armor turns until after Turn 6, and you had to draw Justicar first. But even then, I feel like there were concerns with how high Warriors could stack their armor. Fatigue control warrior was a real archetype, and decks like Freeze Mage generally couldn't burn through the size of armor stack a warrior could assemble.
At that time, despite being a warrior fan (particularly of fatigue warrior), I kind of mused, maybe 4 Armor is simply too much. Note: 4 health from a priest isn't as big of an issue, because there's a cap of 30 health on a priest, and the hero power is useless if you're at full health. However, Armor is uncapped, and the fact that it can simply stack high enough to win games on it's own is problematic.
Note: 4 health from a priest isn't as big of an issue, because there's a cap of 30 health on a priest, and the hero power is useless if you're at full health.
Priest can heal minions with their hero power too, and healing a minion for 4 can be a whole lot of value.
Why is this even a question for debate? clearly Odd is better, it's easier to come up with an odd archetype than an even one, the odd hero power is drastically more powerful because it doesn't require synergy on it's own to get good value out of it.
Literally the only reason Warlock goes even purely for the fact that it can play Giant on turn 3. Shaman is even only because of Eel and turn 1 hero power into Flametougne.
Paladin, Rogue, and Warrior is just self explanatory and doesn't require synergy, the synergy the decks have are just the cherry on top because their hero power carries.
I agree in the case of odd Rogue that it's carried by the raw power of the hero power, but I think odd pally and warrior are very much synergy driven. Nobody would care about some 1/1s if there weren't synergy cards like level up / raid leader / fungalmancer. Odd warrior is kind of in the middle but the hero power basically doubling the power of shield slam and reckless fury is huge for that deck.
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Yes. This is a detailed thesis about the power level of Genn Greymane and Baku the Mooneater. Yes. I will write about which is better as a card, and as a multitude of archetypes for decks. This is a deadly combination of spare time and passion to write. This is geared towards experienced HS players but is written to be understood by all. Lastly, this was written BEFORE Rastakhan's Rumble was released. I did not attend Blizzcon, so I have not played any preview Tavern Brawl or anything of the sort. HSReplay is my main source.
Genn Greymane is a 6 mana 6 attack/5 health neutral legendary from the Witchwood set. With this in your deck, your hero power will cost 1 (instead of 2) mana assuming all cards in your deck are even. This effect occurs AFTER the initial mill phase. You can theoretically have 4 odd cards in your deck, and still have Genn's effect trigger (Assuming you draw them). You CAN have a quest in the deck and always get Genn's effect to go off, as long as you keep the quest in your opening hand. If Genn is in your deck and you do not meet the all even cards condition, no animation will occur. If you do meet the condition, your opponent will know. If you change your hero power at all, the cost reduction does not stick.
Baku the Mooneater is a 9 mana 7 attack/8 health neutral legendary from the Witchwood set. Similarly to Genn, if your deck only has Odd cards, your hero power will stay at 2 mana, but is upgraded. The upgrade to your hero power is the same that would occur with Justicar Trueheart.
I to remember which is which, I use the trick "Deck is even, hero power is odd and vice versa."
Now for the actual analysis.
The cards themselves are pretty bad. They essentially have no text on the card. For no text minions, I use the formula (H+A)/2M=P. A minion's health and attack divided by twice its mana cost equals its "power level." So, an "average" power level for a blank card would be 1.0. Putting the minions on trial, Genn pulls a 0.916. Baku pulls a mere 0.833. So both of these cards are bad by themselves, but Genn is a slightly better drop than Baku. I don't consider this into which is better because you will put them in their respective decks anyways.
Next, we consider the power of their effects.
There are 4 main Odd archetypes. Paladin, Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter. Even decks have 3 meta spots, with Paly, Warlock, and Shaman. Odd Paly has been the top of the meta for what seems like most of Boomsday, with Odd Rogue, Even Paly, and Even Shaman coming in at second through fourth places in varying orders. Odd Rogue occasionally pops up above Odd Paly, but only occasionally. Odd Warrior is a solid deck but only holds a tier 2 spot. It is a Whizbang deck, with the taunt quest. Odd Hunter isn't even that solid of a deck, it depends on a good draw and is just a super aggro deck.
We'll go more into depth with Paly, as it is the only class with tier 1 even and odd decks. Even Paly's strength is the ability to hero power on most turns. It has a flexible curve, with a hero power on most turns. Odd Paly's strength is that it floods the board with its hero power and it has more synergies with its wide board. Also, Odd Paly's synergies are strong with a wide board of silver hand recruits but can work with any wide board. Raid Leader can work with any minions, while Lightfused Stegodon only affects silver hand recruits.
One more thing that I want to point out, In an Odd deck, you can play Raza the Chained. It is unrealistic to have an odd unique deck, as you are passing up on Reno Jackson and Kazakus, but I wouldn't be surprised to see HysteriA do some BS world record combo with it.
Moving along to a conclusion,
Overall, both Genn and Baku's effects are powerful and meta-defining. Each can be played in its own way (Odd Warrior is Control, Odd Hunter is Aggro, Odd/Even Paly, Even Shaman, Even Warlock and Odd Rogue are midrange). I can't label one as straight-up better than the other because of the variance in hero powers.
I've seen Even and Odd Mage. Both are off meta and similar in power level. I rank Odd mage over Even Mage because of the cards, not really the hero power. 1 mana deal 1 damage is pretty equal to 2 mana deal 2 damage.
Druid is similar to Mage. Druid has so little odd/even decks that it doesn't show up on HSReplay. I can't say that Even or Odd is better because they both suck on here
Hunter is a no-brainer. Odd hunter isn't a top tier deck but is probably the most aggressive deck. Most aggressive minions (Hunter and Neutral) are odd, so there you have it.
Paly is a toss-up because both Even and Odd paly are top of the meta. I like odd more, because I played it as my first deck this expansion, but I'm not picking favorites. So this one's a draw.
Priest is with druid, I never see even or odd, so no contest.
Odd Rogue is top tier, so that's that.
Even Shaman is top tier, and it's the only tier 1 or 2 shaman deck, so there ya have it.
Even Warlock has the ability to get an 8/8 giant out onto the field on turn 3, another on turn 4, and a 4/10 dragon on turns 5 and 6. The upgraded hero power is just really bad, so Even blows this one out of the water
Odd warrior was going strong for a while but started to die down around the middle of the expansion. Even never competed, so Baku wins warrior.
There ya have it.
Thanks for reading this disorganized Charlie Foxtrot of a thesis.
I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
I don't think this is true.
I usually think of it as the even HP is for tempo, and the odd HP is for value. Seems weird at first thought because odd decks are mostly aggro, but there is so much value in pressing the button as Paladin, Warrior, and Rogue. Where as the even decks are consistent tempo. Pally and Shaman feel like you always have something to buff. That's really the strength. a 1 mana 1/1 or totem doesn't seem like much but they have synergy and consistency. Drawing a card is another kind of tempo and it lets you drop/find big threats early and often.
I tend to prefer the even decks. Even shaman and warlock are two of my favorite decks to play. I don't have even paladin but it's the deck i'm looking to craft next, though i would like to try it first but none of my friends have it.
As far as Genn vs Baku as playable cards themself, Genn is much more playable even if his stat ratio is only slightly higher. Genn is at least a threat that you can play plus another card and maybe even a hero power. Baku is an entire turn and isn't really much of a threat for his cost. Genn also fits most of the deck styles he's in more. He's a midrange minion with beefy attack. Baku is a completely dead card in most games.
I'm really interested to see what will be around after the rotation with these even/odd decks.
I like genn more. He takes more skill. Although most of his decks do center aggro, not all do (even paladin and even warlock), however, baku is almost 100% aggro based.
Even decks are way more fun and thought provoking.
I'd say Odd decks are more powerful overall, but they're boring as crap to play. (excluding Odd Shaman)
Have you got an Odd Shaman? Can you share if so?
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
Even all way. Even though I crafted Baku first.
Even Warlock is the strongest, nothing to discuss.
I've personally never seen or played an odd shaman because the upgraded hero power is weak. There was a post on r/customhearthstone with a new version of the upgraded hero power. It summons a random upgraded basic totem
1/1--->2/2
0/2 taunt---> 0/2 taunt, divine shield
0/2 spell damage +1---> 0/2 spell damage +2
0/2 EOT restore 1 to all friendly minions----> 0/2 EOT restore 2 to all friendly characters
I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
this is what it should have been i think, however I see that a few other classes should have likewise gotten a different upgrade, like Warlock maybe.
Odd Druid.
Even Shaman is an absolutely bonkers deck. It might not be the powerhouse of Standard but in Wild this deck is pretty much unstoppable.
Add me up if you're looking for someone to play friendly matches with! I play on EU. LuckyScrub#2745
Odd Druid is getting a lot of cards to support it from Team 5, but is probably going to be tier 3 at best (Pending new reveals) for the reason that you have to hit into minions a lot. The armor gain probably won't be enough to offset the damage.
I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
Whichever deck I play is more powerful.
I play Odd Rogue in Wild and have to say I absolutely hate going against Even Shaman. Their Eel pretty much eats up any 1 or 2 drop I have on the board, and the two attack weapon is often wasted on having to kill totems every turn.
Why is this even a question for debate? clearly Odd is better, it's easier to come up with an odd archetype than an even one, the odd hero power is drastically more powerful because it doesn't require synergy on it's own to get good value out of it.
Literally the only reason Warlock goes even purely for the fact that it can play Giant on turn 3. Shaman is even only because of Eel and turn 1 hero power into Flametougne.
Paladin, Rogue, and Warrior is just self explanatory and doesn't require synergy, the synergy the decks have are just the cherry on top because their hero power carries.
Until now I don't understand why the hunter-heropower only gets up to 3 while warrior is allowed to armor up by 4
An error in judgment, most likely.
Clearly, the Hunter enhanced hero power couldn't go up to 4 damage. That'd just be too strong. However, I think Blizzard underestimated the impact of a doubled hero power for warrior. With Justicar Trueheart, I think things were a bit more balanced, since you couldn't start 4-armor turns until after Turn 6, and you had to draw Justicar first. But even then, I feel like there were concerns with how high Warriors could stack their armor. Fatigue control warrior was a real archetype, and decks like Freeze Mage generally couldn't burn through the size of armor stack a warrior could assemble.
At that time, despite being a warrior fan (particularly of fatigue warrior), I kind of mused, maybe 4 Armor is simply too much. Note: 4 health from a priest isn't as big of an issue, because there's a cap of 30 health on a priest, and the hero power is useless if you're at full health. However, Armor is uncapped, and the fact that it can simply stack high enough to win games on it's own is problematic.
Priest can heal minions with their hero power too, and healing a minion for 4 can be a whole lot of value.
I agree in the case of odd Rogue that it's carried by the raw power of the hero power, but I think odd pally and warrior are very much synergy driven. Nobody would care about some 1/1s if there weren't synergy cards like level up / raid leader / fungalmancer. Odd warrior is kind of in the middle but the hero power basically doubling the power of shield slam and reckless fury is huge for that deck.