So far it seems the Frozen Throne expansion is pushing a control/midrange option for every class, and the sharp increase in 1 damage AOE's suggest that aggressive, swarmy decks will take a huge hit. We have Defile, Spirit Lash and Blood Razor revealed so far suggest that an early game will not be easily established anymore, and 1hp creatures might get removed if that happens. Druid's new Plague card is also an immense defensive resource, and I wouldn't be surprised that Rogue gets a large and much needed defensive card too next to her new weapon and ability to lifesteal.
On top of the plentiful AOE we're seeing we are also getting massive control cards in the form of not only Death Knights (even Rexxar is getting a card which basically reads 'your hand is never empty') but some of the class legendaries like the new Archbishop for Priest, some new crazy cards like Dead Man's Hand for Warrior... it seems Blizzard is just nailing Fatigue deeper into its coffin, like it needed nailing anyway. Only Jade Druid seems to go to fatigue, but they do it to actually beat you.
Zoo is getting support too, Discardlock might be getting more cards (although in reality Discolock needs another Malchezaar's Imp or a cheaper tutor for it and another Doomguard power level of a card to be finished) but with most class getting AOE, the huge loss that was Power Overwhelming I will assume that Zoo will simply be manageable by most classes.
So here we have the old, old problem... What is the point of anything slow when Jade Idol exists? Do you believe any new slow deck will be able to handle it?
It's not onlyJade Idol that is the problem, it's also Earthen Scales, giving the deck a massive edge against OTK decks like Freeze, Malygos or Velen, or even just aggro-ish decks trying to rush Jade down before it develops... Now they're getting the Plague card which seems like a crazy good turn buyer. When Gadgetzan arrived and Jade Druid was everywhere, I was playing Mage with the specific task of countering them with burn... not possible anymore, now that they just get +10 armor for 1 mana whenever they want it... So I dunno, it looks very grim indeed. I can't really imagine any new kind of Control deck can handle Jade anymore, more because of Earthen Scales than the jades themselves, it covered up a big weakness that they had and now it looks impenetrable save for Quest Mage.
TL;DR
So with the release of so many control-friendly cards (in the form of AOE, lifesteal and Death Knights), do you believe Jades are getting a change, since they make all the new cards pointless?
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''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
Yea, i'm concerned about jade idol. I've loved control for 3 years but it seems to be starving at the moment. The only 'control' deck that works is priest at the moment. But jade idol is also the reason why i play wild, you see more pirates than jades in this format. Pirates are easy to counter in wild with control, so i hope they change jade idol, because there's no counter against this, except for aggro.
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- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
Jade Druid (and Druid in general) has no good way to come back from a loosing position and their Early and Midgame are relatively weak. We also got Nerubian Unraveler as a powerful tech card and insane Midrange cards like Bonemare and Cobalt Scalebane that are very likely to see play and can't be used by jade Druid, since they don't have the deckspace and not enough synergy with them.
Bonemare+ 6/6 or better jade= undefeatable jade, not even by aggro
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- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
Cards like Jade Idol, Dead Man's Hand and Bishoop for Priest should NOT exist!
Honestly, I think this cards are totally fine. Greedy decks should exists and Jadedruid or Questrogue counter them, but you have also counter to those two type of decks, if you play proactive decks.
Love to try playing Questrogue in KFT
You like playing Questrogue??? it's the most obvious gameplan you could have, just like jade druid. I have nothing against quest rogue at the moment but jade idol is definitely too strong. I think that card shouldn't have been made, because now we got a few people who love it and people who absolutely hate it. If the card wasn't even made then jade druid would've been a decent deck, not control destroying. Another card like Aya Blackpaw could've been great for the deck.
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- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
Cards like Jade Idol, Dead Man's Hand and Bishoop for Priest should NOT exist!
Honestly, I think this cards are totally fine. Greedy decks should exists and Jadedruid or Questrogue counter them, but you have also counter to those two type of decks, if you play proactive decks.
Love to try playing Questrogue in KFT
You like playing Questrogue??? it's the most obvious gameplan you could have, just like jade druid. I have nothing against quest rogue at the moment but jade idol is definitely too strong. I think that card shouldn't have been made, because now we got a few people who love it and people who absolutely hate it. If the card wasn't even made then jade druid would've been a decent deck, not control destroying. Another card like Aya Blackpaw could've been great for the deck.
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- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
Honestly, I think this cards are totally fine. Greedy decks should exists and Jadedruid or Questrogue counter them, but you have also counter to those two type of decks, if you play proactive decks.
Well that is another issue, we're being handed archetypes that counter archetypes with an almost 100% winrate, forcefully turning the game into rock-paper-scissors between premade decks; if you follow any pro players, you know how bad this philosophy is in high legend ranks where you encounter the same players over and over, and they countermatch your deck so you have to keep switching what you play from game to game. this issue is actually massive! if you want to climb, you can't stick to a deck you like and mastered because you get 100% countered, so you have to randomize deck selection. it's insane.
but like... Jade Druid isn't as weak to aggro as it should be in this philosophy. with Earthen Scales, Primordial Drake, Feral Rage and their crazy ramp possibilities ... it's going to take a card or two to like lessen that weak spot to a point where you just don't mind that bad matchup, and with other classes getting Spirit Lash and Defile... who's left to counter Jade?
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''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
I would love to see the stats for Jadedruid vs Deathstalker . A six mana ( actually eight because two for HP) 9/9 charge would probably be gamewinning against Jadedruid. But how realistic is that? It's more realistic Jadedruid has a 6/6 when it's your turn six... ( happened quite often to me) .
Stll i wouldn't take bets for either side. Just curious how the meta will play out in the end. :)
Because Jade Idol is not going to make an entire expansion irrelevant... and please stop with 'they are making more control oriented'... get off from your high horse already.
They are making an expansion, not an exercise in forum-futility; there's more cards for all types of decks may 'em be aggressive, midrange or late-game control decks. Folks love stating Deathstalker Rexxar as 'the card that will become irrelevant because of Jade Idol' even tho'...
At turn 6, the Jade Golems are usually around 3/3 to 4/4 in size with most tools used to grow 'em used therefore needing more explosive powers from that of Gadgetzan Auctioneer alongside quite a fair few spells. Between Deathstalker Rexxar being able to create things like 9/9 Charge for 6 mana and cards like Nerubian Unraveler... there's options both to absolutely murder 'em as well as to stop their gameplan.
So please... quit with the whole spouting of memes already, its getting quite old.
You should drop that aggressiveness, really. I'm just here worried that all these exciting control cards will be rendered irrelevant by a cheap to build super-counter to control. 'High horse' and 'meme spouting' is somewhere in your fiction.
Also I don't consider Deathstalker Rexxar and Nerubian Unraveler anywhere close to being a good counter to Jade. Nerubian Unraveler might be an okay tech card in the rarest of metas (it's just nothing even close to a Loatheb), but that Rexxar scenario you present is highly unlikely, even then costs 8 mana to execute to just get 1 charging 9/9 Hydra (a liability in a class without healing) and unless we get a tutor for Hero cards (I assume we're highly likely to get that) it is unreliable. logically I do not believe you run DK Rexxar in a face deck, and a control Hunter has failed time and time again because as a Hunter you have no good AOE, no good card draw and no good healing - all three of these solved in one expansion that hasn't been fixed in 3 years, crazy unlikely. A good counter to Jade is still looking the same as it is now; evolve shaman, token druid, pirate, possibly zoo if it gets strong enough. If enough antiaggro is pushed and all classes are running around with better Whirlwinds, aggro decks with low health creatures are getting fucked and Jade Druid is running free.
So as I said; So here we have the old, old problem... What is the point of anything slow when Jade Idol exists? Do you believe any new slow deck will be able to handle it? It's fear from nothing changing.
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''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
Ever heard of Midrange/Tempo decks? They got a lot of powerful tools and will be able to crush Jade Druid, before he is able to get rolling and Druid is naturally weak to strong Midgame plays and has next to no comeback cards. We didn't have many strong Midrange cards in the last few sets, at least not enough to outpace Aggro and contest Control, but cards like Nerubian Unraveler and Bonemare support that archetype heavily. Sure Midrange Shaman and Paladin were/are a thing, but they aren't strong enough against the rest of the field to push Jades out of the meta.
You might be right, jade druid is almost non-existant in wild for this very reason: a slow start, and you get rolled by a myriad of midrange decks. I got matched with one as wild tempomage, wow, that was one sided!
they should be nerfed the freaking jade idol long time ago, the best fix for that card is DELETE
This
We will either see a huge power creep (I doubt so) or a complete underwhelmizatin of the expansion by Jade Idol. Jade decks will tech a new card, then anjoy the Jade meta
You should drop that aggressiveness, really. I'm just here worried that all these exciting control cards will be rendered irrelevant by a cheap to build super-counter to control. 'High horse' and 'meme spouting' is somewhere in your fiction.
Also I don't consider Deathstalker Rexxar and Nerubian Unraveler anywhere close to being a good counter to Jade. Nerubian Unraveler might be an okay tech card in the rarest of metas (it's just nothing even close to a Loatheb), but that Rexxar scenario you present is highly unlikely, even then costs 8 mana to execute to just get 1 charging 9/9 Hydra (a liability in a class without healing) and unless we get a tutor for Hero cards (I assume we're highly likely to get that) it is unreliable. logically I do not believe you run DK Rexxar in a face deck, and a control Hunter has failed time and time again because as a Hunter you have no good AOE, no good card draw and no good healing - all three of these solved in one expansion that hasn't been fixed in 3 years, crazy unlikely. A good counter to Jade is still looking the same as it is now; evolve shaman, token druid, pirate, possibly zoo if it gets strong enough. If enough antiaggro is pushed and all classes are running around with better Whirlwinds, aggro decks with low health creatures are getting fucked and Jade Druid is running free.
So as I said; So here we have the old, old problem... What is the point of anything slow when Jade Idol exists? Do you believe any new slow deck will be able to handle it? It's fear from nothing changing.
3. Jade Idol is a very interesting card in regards to how you play and build your deck using it. You can use it explosively with Gadgetzan Auctioneer that's correct but, as folks have done in the past this means that you 'know' your opponent will play spells. This means that folks have used cards to counter it, Burgly Bully is one of the greatest examples of this as it even came out from the same time and it did actually used to be, well used in a rank 1 Kazakus mage deck in combination with Archmage Antonidas to just outright kill the opponent if they ever used the said Jade Idol.[/quote]
You're completely delusional. Burgly Bully? Really? "Hey look, I made one or two coins while he slammed 11/11 and 12/12 for 2 mana! I did so well countering his play!"
It's like I'm hearing Azmodan here, completely out of touch compared to what's actually happening. "Just outright kill the opponent" how, exactly? Because doing 12 damage for 8 mana kinda pales compared to making 10+ armor for 1mana.
to update on this topic, it seems (for now, with these cards revealed) that at least one new Death Knight deck is going to be able to fight with jades with a strongly positive winrate; Thrall, Deathseer is looking intense, fits an already established deck that beats Jade Druid rather consistently. it's more of a swarmy/midrange deck, but hey, anything playable that beats Jades makes them less relevant and opens more room for other DK (according to rumors, the other DKs are much higher mana cost and therefore likely control only) and slower decks!
my dream is really getting control decks that have a good enough winrate against Jade to encourage more people to run control decks, not be trapped in that depressing mentality of 'oh my opponent has my counter, guess I concede' that just discourages you to run your deck and eventually makes you drop it for faster, aggressive archetypes that don't suffer a % of almost instaloss. why push cards like Dead Man's Hand for control? it's irrelevant unless changes are made.
Handlock is my hope for a Control deck that actually beats Jades convincingly, with Defile and perhaps a new Deathknight for some class to also establish a good control deck. Control hopefully returns to the game proper.
Hey there.
So far it seems the Frozen Throne expansion is pushing a control/midrange option for every class, and the sharp increase in 1 damage AOE's suggest that aggressive, swarmy decks will take a huge hit. We have Defile, Spirit Lash and Blood Razor revealed so far suggest that an early game will not be easily established anymore, and 1hp creatures might get removed if that happens. Druid's new Plague card is also an immense defensive resource, and I wouldn't be surprised that Rogue gets a large and much needed defensive card too next to her new weapon and ability to lifesteal.
On top of the plentiful AOE we're seeing we are also getting massive control cards in the form of not only Death Knights (even Rexxar is getting a card which basically reads 'your hand is never empty') but some of the class legendaries like the new Archbishop for Priest, some new crazy cards like Dead Man's Hand for Warrior... it seems Blizzard is just nailing Fatigue deeper into its coffin, like it needed nailing anyway. Only Jade Druid seems to go to fatigue, but they do it to actually beat you.
Zoo is getting support too, Discardlock might be getting more cards (although in reality Discolock needs another Malchezaar's Imp or a cheaper tutor for it and another Doomguard power level of a card to be finished) but with most class getting AOE, the huge loss that was Power Overwhelming I will assume that Zoo will simply be manageable by most classes.
So here we have the old, old problem... What is the point of anything slow when Jade Idol exists? Do you believe any new slow deck will be able to handle it?
It's not onlyJade Idol that is the problem, it's also Earthen Scales, giving the deck a massive edge against OTK decks like Freeze, Malygos or Velen, or even just aggro-ish decks trying to rush Jade down before it develops... Now they're getting the Plague card which seems like a crazy good turn buyer. When Gadgetzan arrived and Jade Druid was everywhere, I was playing Mage with the specific task of countering them with burn... not possible anymore, now that they just get +10 armor for 1 mana whenever they want it... So I dunno, it looks very grim indeed. I can't really imagine any new kind of Control deck can handle Jade anymore, more because of Earthen Scales than the jades themselves, it covered up a big weakness that they had and now it looks impenetrable save for Quest Mage.
TL;DR
So with the release of so many control-friendly cards (in the form of AOE, lifesteal and Death Knights), do you believe Jades are getting a change, since they make all the new cards pointless?
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
Cards like Jade Idol, Dead Man's Hand and Bishoop for Priest should NOT exist!
They ar breaking classic rule, that says "You have +- 30 cards in your deck"
Now, hate me, plz
Yea, i'm concerned about jade idol. I've loved control for 3 years but it seems to be starving at the moment. The only 'control' deck that works is priest at the moment. But jade idol is also the reason why i play wild, you see more pirates than jades in this format. Pirates are easy to counter in wild with control, so i hope they change jade idol, because there's no counter against this, except for aggro.
- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
Let us see all of the cards, please!
- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
I would love to see the stats for Jadedruid vs Deathstalker . A six mana ( actually eight because two for HP) 9/9 charge would probably be gamewinning against Jadedruid. But how realistic is that? It's more realistic Jadedruid has a 6/6 when it's your turn six... ( happened quite often to me) .
Stll i wouldn't take bets for either side. Just curious how the meta will play out in the end. :)
they should be nerfed the freaking jade idol long time ago, the best fix for that card is DELETE
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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Jade Idol was such a stupid-ass card from the get go. Why does Shaman and Rogue not benefit from infinite-jade-spawning but Druid does?
"Hey look, I made one or two coins while he slammed 11/11 and 12/12 for 2 mana! I did so well countering his play!"
to update on this topic, it seems (for now, with these cards revealed) that at least one new Death Knight deck is going to be able to fight with jades with a strongly positive winrate; Thrall, Deathseer is looking intense, fits an already established deck that beats Jade Druid rather consistently. it's more of a swarmy/midrange deck, but hey, anything playable that beats Jades makes them less relevant and opens more room for other DK (according to rumors, the other DKs are much higher mana cost and therefore likely control only) and slower decks!
my dream is really getting control decks that have a good enough winrate against Jade to encourage more people to run control decks, not be trapped in that depressing mentality of 'oh my opponent has my counter, guess I concede' that just discourages you to run your deck and eventually makes you drop it for faster, aggressive archetypes that don't suffer a % of almost instaloss. why push cards like Dead Man's Hand for control? it's irrelevant unless changes are made.
Handlock is my hope for a Control deck that actually beats Jades convincingly, with Defile and perhaps a new Deathknight for some class to also establish a good control deck. Control hopefully returns to the game proper.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~