Pirate meta is a result of Brode's First Law which says "The meta will always be aggro + decks that can effectively tech against it". Jade druid c'ant tech against aggro and therefore has nothing to do with that. It's not even that consistent against control decks.
No. If Jade Idol didnt exist the meta would be exactly the same, minus the 5% of people who play jade druid.
People gravitate towards fast, cheap, easy and strong decks. Pirate decks easily fulfil these requirements, so the majority of people play them. Removing jade idol doesn't stop pirate decks from doing their thing.
this ^, it's a strong face deck, most people craft strong face decks thanks to how the ladder system works, pirate meta is a result of the flawed ladder system (single duels, instead of matches with sideboards)
fatigue decks typically suffer to aggro decks. It's actually a natural design of card games and WHY aggro even exists: to force decks to stop being so greedy.
Jade, meanwhile, is a midrange deck, which, in HS, also feeds on control. if anything, they hold back other midrnage decks like hunter and old style shaman.
Fatigue wouldn't have a chance in ANY spot of this meta, especially with Priest's new lightbomb (which is only not in play due to the lack of control) and warlock being..welll.. warlock.
Though I'm biased, after half a year of Tempo-based curvestone mania, actual AGGRO decks feel fresh again. Though it helps knowing that they die to slow reno decks :P
In Hearthstone, midrange is what keeps Control from getting too greedy. I also think Jade Druid isn't that strong against faster midrange deck, such as Hunter, which are dead more due to aggro. So, what is happening is that Renolock is very strong by itself, but the laddering system favors aggro, so Pirate Warrior is popular, which kills midrange. Jade Druid still exists because it was pushed so much by Blizzard, and kills off CW which does push aggro meta, but CW is already dead because Jaraxxus sees so much play. Therefor Jade Druid didn't cause the aggro meta.
They may play very differently from each other, but they can all be beaten by the same control strategy of keeping minions off the board and armoring up to prevent any sort of combo/OTK play. Freeze mage in particular had almost no chance of beating a control warrior, especially once Justicar Trueheart hit the board.
if jade idol didn't exist the meta would be completely different.It inhibits control and lets pirates run amok.im convinced this is a fact,unless you care to refute.
Yep, definitely because of Jade. It's definitely NOT because of Patches and Small-Time Buccaneer.
It demolishes yours, draws, armor/tank up! and then just smash some big legendaries down your throat.
Those legendaries are on the board, are they not?
Thats a poor argument. Might as well say all decks play the same because they all use cards.
Those decks I mentioned all use Combo/Otk methods to kill the enemy.
They dont care if they have higher health or better board when they do it. They just need to draw the combo pieces and throw them when they can. All have removal, draw and life gain. If they use minions or spells to acomplish that its irrelevant
This is true, Jade forces the meta in a boring deriction. I try a Buff/Reno/Paladin tonight, a pretty fun deck to play but in Ladder it is Jade Shaman, Jade Druid, Jade Rouge who play endless of stronger boring Jadeshit stuff. After a few games my option is play Casual or play Aggro. Not the kind of HS I like.
No it's not. If blizzard prints a fucking neutral flame imp that summons a free 1/1 charge then you better believe the meta is going to go aggro. It's a RPS meta right now and aggro is the clearest choice to make:
Aggro > midrange/combo, midrange/combo > control, and control > aggro is a coinflip on if you draw reno or not. So aggro is always better since it has a coinflip on how hard it beats control and also gets more games done to rank up faster.
If that's the case why is it that my mid range shaman usually stomps on aggro decks but tends to lose to reno decks? Could it be that it's not quite as cut and dried as you make it out to be? I've tried out the "tier 1" aggro decks, and they lose a lot more than you seem to think.
To the OP: No, it's not. Pirate meta is a result of people playing the faster and easier decks since the beginning of the game. Jade idol has absolutely nothing to do that with. In fact, because of the prevalence of pirate decks, Jade Druid is so grossly underrepresented on ladder you could play full fatigue-style control decks and get away with it. You will autolose your matches against Druid, which will be around 1-2 in 20-25 games, and you will still be completely fine if you want to ladder. This is one of the reasons why Control Warrior is a very solid choice for laddering right now, because it performs well against the current predominantly aggro metagame.
To some of the flawed conclusions here: Priest is not bad right now. In fact, Dragon Priest is one of the strongest decks, with very strong anti-aggro tools and a strongly positive matchup against both pirate decks, and Reno Mage and Control Warrior that people are using to combat the aggro decks. You have a negative matchup against renolock, but you can still win, and it's nowhere near as polarizing as the other matchups are in your favor. Now, if you're looking to play control priest, that's not playable competitively in the current metagame. Dragon Priest will do everything better. You could try Reno I guess, but there are better Reno decks - still, the strength of Kazakus and Reno will give you wins and I think you can ladder with it fine.
This nails it big time.
People are just trying to find an excuse to justify something. A few days ago there was a pirate warrior player blaming Reno Jackson as guilty to force people into aggro style... like if there weren't face decks before... and AFAIK many saw it's release as a cure of SMOrc, not the other way around. But many just want to say "Oh look, I'm not lazy, It's not my fault I play an easy auto-play deck, I'm being forced by and occultist force out there!" Total BS.
I'm a former pirate warrior hater (actually still am), but now I just don't care. It forced me to try new decks, forced me into studying it more, to improve,... I don't get angry anymore, despite being more teched vs aggro, sometimes I don't draw the "medicine", but being 50% vs SMOrc already feels good to me. It's either an easy win or a quick defeat from which I can recover quickly. Can't win every game.
And not all pirates are the same. While Warrior is almost an auto-play, Shaman requires a bit more skill and Rogue is at another level of difficulty.
I agree with the OP, in a way. I think their thought process might have been, ok we make Jades that should dominate control matchups, and hand buffs that would dominate midrange with extra value on buffs on curve. We have Reno archetypes for Kabal decks, we make another viable Midrange for Priests, ok how do we balance Jades out? Lets make a super aggro viable - and able to rush everyone down.
My issue with aggro today, and I have written about this before, is that Warriors/Shamans have too much burn with weapons/spells. Shaman also has sick op early game that makes it even stronger, Warriors have big chargers. I don't really care that games vs aggro are 6-7 turns either way, you stabilize or die, even tho it may seem boring. I think it's fun to figure out proper mulligans and playstyles for different archetypes. I actually like (not playing) Zoo decks when they are honest (no Malch imp), but anyone who thinks that Zoo could carry the aggro torch in the current meta with so many AoEs is wrong. So Pirates is a necessary "evil" and by "evil" I only mean having too good weapons, weapon buffs, chargers and spells that they can burn you from hand over couple of turns - without you being able to do much about it.
"without you being able to do much about it."
see im fine with everything except that, when you stabilize vs a creature deck you should win from there, or at least grind it out. thing is, those types of decks just run weapons that smorc and charge dudes. maybe we nerf charge? and make weapons only be able to attack creatures?
this isnt magic the gathering after all. I feel its pretty unfair you cant do anything about otk on your opponents turn for 15 damage plus, in this game.
Jade Druid, or rather druid in general, is dying off because it's just too slow. Contrary to what people believe there's a lot of strategy to it. I've been tweaking mine regularly to see if I can come up with something good, but it's just not as good as my Reno Mage deck.
if jade idol didn't exist the meta would be completely different.It inhibits control and lets pirates run amok.im convinced this is a fact,unless you care to refute.
lol.... yeah, sure. If not for Jade all the people playing hyper aggro would play something else, because they're all forced to play pirates to thwart those pesky Jade Idols that they don't see more than a few times in their 1 day rise to single digit ranks.
dey see me trollin......
You completely missed the point of that post. Because Jade is so prevalent (now more so than when OP posted this), you can't run a stall/fatigue deck and hope to win those matchups. Remember control warrior? The deck that warriors used to play? Decks like control warrior that just ran removal and armor were actually really good against aggro but struggled against midrange. If Jade wasn't so prevalent/didn't exist, people would play control warrior and other anti-aggro decks and would wreck the pirate warriors. People would be upset that they couldn't win with pirate warrior so they would switch to something else. Because Jade Druid really hurts the anti-aggro decks while still having decent matchups against other decks, this lets pirates run rampant.
Wha's best in life? SM0RK, RNG and Top Decks.
Pirate meta is a result of Brode's First Law which says "The meta will always be aggro + decks that can effectively tech against it". Jade druid c'ant tech against aggro and therefore has nothing to do with that. It's not even that consistent against control decks.
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CLASSES : Alchemist (CCC#5 | Phase V) | Chef (CCC#4)
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Both are crap. Nerf Bukaneer AND Jade Idol.
Also I would like to check twice Auctioneer, Leeroy and all shaman stuff.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Wha's best in life? SM0RK, RNG and Top Decks.
They may play very differently from each other, but they can all be beaten by the same control strategy of keeping minions off the board and armoring up to prevent any sort of combo/OTK play. Freeze mage in particular had almost no chance of beating a control warrior, especially once Justicar Trueheart hit the board.
Wha's best in life? SM0RK, RNG and Top Decks.
This is true, Jade forces the meta in a boring deriction. I try a Buff/Reno/Paladin tonight, a pretty fun deck to play but in Ladder it is Jade Shaman, Jade Druid, Jade Rouge who play endless of stronger boring Jadeshit stuff. After a few games my option is play Casual or play Aggro. Not the kind of HS I like.
Jade Druid, or rather druid in general, is dying off because it's just too slow. Contrary to what people believe there's a lot of strategy to it. I've been tweaking mine regularly to see if I can come up with something good, but it's just not as good as my Reno Mage deck.
Wih the new patch and nerfs, new variations of aggro decks are being born to counter the infinite value of Jade idol.
Im one opportunist myself, first day of the nerf I played 11 Jade druids in 30 matches.Rank 5>
This is annoying to me because I hate playing Aggro, but there's no other choice, maybe leeroy renolock I guess.