As jade druid deck I decided to tech in doomsayer(*2), sunwalker(*1),druid of the claw(*1),feral rage(*2) I find it easier facing pirate decks and tempo decks(doom sayer)
My god, I'm sick of these threads. Meta hasn't stabilized yet, if pirates are dominating then in a few weeks you'll see a lot of counter decks to those. In fact, one of the best decks of the moment, Dragon Priest, owns all pirate decks, except maybe Rogue, plus is good against a lot of other decks and it's super easy to play.
Forsen just got DESTROYED playing all pirate decks (Warrior, Shaman and Rogue) against Superjj's Dragon Priest deck. So, instead of whining, why don't you try a deck that's good against aggro for a change.
People are "salty" about aggro just because 2k dust decks can compete and beat 14k dust decks. Aggro is necessary in the meta and easily counterable but players preffer to get the maximum value of their cards, keep it on hand and play their "greedy combos" instead of use their resources to clean cards like N'Zoth's First Mate loosing some value.
I understand that people complain about Mid-Range Shaman who owns the early, mid and late game and can't be easily countered but complaining against Pirate Warrior or just "Aggro Decks"... Maybe aggro is "Braindead only face" but I think that is more braindead not knowing how to play against aggro...
i think pirates are fine, it's a deck thta havily relies in something that can be countered, i'd die of happiness if hearthstone ever got a card to name and discard multiple copies of a card from an opponent's deck since i'd just name Thing from Below, but team 5 will never print disruptive cards that are stronger than weasel, however against pirates the key thing is having weapon removal and blizzard is actually pretty generous when printing weapon removal effects..
Pirate Warrior is a good boy when you survive after turn 6 or 7. But Aggro Shaman is a real asshole. It can rebuild its board more easily and has damage spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sit and come relax, riddle off the mac. It's the patch."
My god, I'm sick of these threads. Meta hasn't stabilized yet, if pirates are dominating then in a few weeks you'll see a lot of counter decks to those. In fact, one of the best decks of the moment, Dragon Priest, owns all pirate decks, except maybe Rogue, plus is good against a lot of other decks and it's super easy to play.
Forsen just got DESTROYED playing all pirate decks (Warrior, Shaman and Rogue) against Superjj's Dragon Priest deck. So, instead of whining, why don't you try a deck that's good against aggro for a change.
Because I am and I'm still losing more than I'm winning vs Wild Pirates with Wild Renolock, I just had a game with Turn 2 Darkbomb, Turn 3 Shadowbolt, Turn 4 Sen'jin Master, Turn 5 Secondrate Bruiser, Turn 6 Reno Jackson and still lost to Arcanite Reaper with Upgrade as I struggled to take the board with Deathlord and Twilight Drake and counter attack. You can literally play the best removal, taunts and heals in the game and still lose the game because the matchup is a coin flip at best and you're the more mulligan and draw reliant deck so variance is not on your side.
Top 1 and 2 Legend right now are Pirate Warrior IN WILD, the home of Zombie Chow, Dark Bomb, Deathlord, Sludge Belcher and Antique Healbot, the problem is that you just can't compete with the mana and tempo efficiency of Weapons and Upgrade! consistently. And if Wild Renolock can't compete with Wild Pirates, which only gains Ship's Cannon, with better than a Coinflip if you draw all of your tech cards then it is either time for massive nerfs on Pirate Warrior itself (which would be Ship's Cannon, Upgrade! and Frothing Berserker) or on Jade Druid (Jade Idol) in order to let Control Warrior back into the meta.
Yeah, the Priest decks are alright vs Pirate Warrior, unfortunately they have some of the same problems as Control Warrior vs Jade Druid and lose to combo almost automatically. It isn't a matter of waiting on the meta, the meta is here, and short of other Pirate Hybrid decks appearing Pirate Warrior is just going to ROFL stomp the game in both formats because it's the most mana efficient aggro deck the game has seen since Aggro Shaman, which brought about the Rockbiter Weapon and Abusive Sergeant nerfs. The new cards aren't in line with the nerf policy of slowing the game down, so you either nerf Pirates as well or you unnerf Arcane Golemn, Leper Gnome, Abusive Sergeant and Rockbiter Weapon.
Blizzard just doesn't seem to know what it's doing with the game, you nerf aggro, fail to learn your lesson, print even better aggro cards while rotating out/nerfing control tools and printing a Jade bullet for the entire archetype?
As jade druid deck I decided to tech in doomsayer(*2), sunwalker(*1),druid of the claw(*1),feral rage(*2) I find it easier facing pirate decks and tempo decks(doom sayer)
Good techs, but how do you perform against other Jade Druid decks? When you tech against agro, it tends to hurt your deck against other types most of the time.
Thinking of the Jade Druid. My Wild Jade Druid deck with two Sludge Belcher is performing much better than my Standard version. Then again, I do see a lot more type of decks on the Wild Ladder...so I might not even focus on Standard much anymore, because it will not be that much fun long term.
It will end up being a few top tier decks, and become very stale very fast again
I'm thinking about adding two Second-Rate Bruiser to help slow down the aggro (on my standard list), but if you don't get good starts...it will be hard to survive their burst and damage even with taunts to counter aggro decks.
My god, I'm sick of these threads. Meta hasn't stabilized yet, if pirates are dominating then in a few weeks you'll see a lot of counter decks to those. In fact, one of the best decks of the moment, Dragon Priest, owns all pirate decks, except maybe Rogue, plus is good against a lot of other decks and it's super easy to play.
Forsen just got DESTROYED playing all pirate decks (Warrior, Shaman and Rogue) against Superjj's Dragon Priest deck. So, instead of whining, why don't you try a deck that's good against aggro for a change.
Because I am and I'm still losing more than I'm winning vs Wild Pirates with Wild Renolock, I just had a game with Turn 2 Darkbomb, Turn 3 Shadowbolt, Turn 4 Sen'jin Master, Turn 5 Secondrate Bruiser, Turn 6 Reno Jackson and still lost to Arcanite Reaper with Upgrade as I struggled to take the board with Deathlord and Twilight Drake and counter attack. You can literally play the best removal, taunts and heals in the game and still lose the game because the matchup is a coin flip at best and you're the more mulligan and draw reliant deck so variance is not on your side.
Top 1 and 2 Legend right now are Pirate Warrior IN WILD, the home of Zombie Chow, Dark Bomb, Deathlord, Sludge Belcher and Antique Healbot, the problem is that you just can't compete with the mana and tempo efficiency of Weapons and Upgrade! consistently. And if Wild Renolock can't compete with Wild Pirates, which only gains Ship's Cannon, with better than a Coinflip if you draw all of your tech cards then it is either time for massive nerfs on Pirate Warrior itself (which would be Ship's Cannon, Upgrade! and Frothing Berserker) or on Jade Druid (Jade Idol) in order to let Control Warrior back into the meta.
Yeah, the Priest decks are alright vs Pirate Warrior, unfortunately they have some of the same problems as Control Warrior vs Jade Druid and lose to combo almost automatically. It isn't a matter of waiting on the meta, the meta is here, and short of other Pirate Hybrid decks appearing Pirate Warrior is just going to ROFL stomp the game in both formats because it's the most mana efficient aggro deck the game has seen since Aggro Shaman, which brought about the Rockbiter Weapon and Abusive Sergeant nerfs. The new cards aren't in line with the nerf policy of slowing the game down, so you either nerf Pirates as well or you unnerf Arcane Golemn, Leper Gnome, Abusive Sergeant and Rockbiter Weapon.
Blizzard just doesn't seem to know what it's doing with the game, you nerf aggro, fail to learn your lesson, print even better aggro cards while rotating out/nerfing control tools and printing a Jade bullet for the entire archetype?
I don't have any idea of what's happening in Wild, sorry if you were talking only about that. In Standard I see it this way: Dragon Priest and even Resurrect Priest eats Pirate decks. So if Pirates dominate, more Priests will appear. Then, if more Priests are seen, more Jade Druids will come. If more Jade Druids appear, then more Pirates and otk decks will be seen. I'm simplifying it a lot, but meta it's ever shifting, unless there's a deck with no counters or weaknesses like Midrange Shaman was (is?). That is unless you're implying that Pirate Warrior is the new Midrange Shaman (which isn't).
I would take Midrange Shaman over Pirate Warrior because even tho' it has a higher power/value level vs most decks it doesn't end games on T5 and expanding card pool narrows the power/value level gap as Midrange Shaman is "maxed out" with its current card choices. I think the problem might be more prominent in Wild than in Standard because of Ship's Cannon and the more casual nature of the format, which makes the deck less linear and encourages people to overrun the playerbase for easy Rank 5/Legend but I believe the fact that it can over take Wild for #1 Legend in a metagame where the control tools are better and more abundant shows you how serious the problem is when you don't have a metagame enforcer vs aggro and you're left with Reno Jackson.
I'm not sure how well Dragon Priest will hold up, but the problem I have with the "Paper, Scissors, Rock" logic of metagame balance is that it can't be a matter of Paper has a 100% loss rate vs Scissors, Scissors has a 100% loss rate vs Rock etc. because games shouldn't be polarized to automatic wins and losses. We need decks that have 70/30 match ups, 50/50 match ups etc. so that skill has more to do with maximizing win percentages than deck choice does. Jade Druid isn't a problem because it's a counter vs Control, it's a problem because it has a 90/10 match up vs control and those types of win/loss percentages need to be reserved for glass cannon decks like Freeze Mage and Worgen Warrior and not an entire archetype.
How a deck wins is more important than whether a deck wins for a lot of people, so it's not just a question of balance and whether or not Standard's meta is balanced with Pirate warrior is extremely questionable. Maybe it's just a question of living in a 2 Acidic Swamp Ooze metagame and being thankful weapon removal is finally so useful, but I really doubt it because the games in and of themselves feel awful.
Obviously Blizzard nerfs the cards everyone has, so that we need to invest in new cards that no one had. Pure dirty business.
Really? That's how it works? S'funny but I always thought that Blizzard nerfed cards that were most despised and caused the most furore. Oh, wait, you play Pirate Warrior don't you?
I don't think you got the simple point but w7e. And no I don't play pirate.
I would take Midrange Shaman over Pirate Warrior because even tho' it has a higher power/value level vs most decks it doesn't end games on T5 and expanding card pool narrows the power/value level gap as Midrange Shaman is "maxed out" with its current card choices. I think the problem might be more prominent in Wild than in Standard because of Ship's Cannon and the more casual nature of the format, which makes the deck less linear and encourages people to overrun the playerbase for easy Rank 5/Legend but I believe the fact that it can over take Wild for #1 Legend in a metagame where the control tools are better and more abundant shows you how serious the problem is when you don't have a metagame enforcer vs aggro and you're left with Reno Jackson.
I'm not sure how well Dragon Priest will hold up, but the problem I have with the "Paper, Scissors, Rock" logic of metagame balance is that it can't be a matter of Paper has a 100% loss rate vs Scissors, Scissors has a 100% loss rate vs Rock etc. because games shouldn't be polarized to automatic wins and losses. We need decks that have 70/30 match ups, 50/50 match ups etc. so that skill has more to do with maximizing win percentages than deck choice does. Jade Druid isn't a problem because it's a counter vs Control, it's a problem because it has a 90/10 match up vs control and those types of win/loss percentages need to be reserved for glass cannon decks like Freeze Mage and Worgen Warrior and not an entire archetype.
How a deck wins is more important than whether a deck wins for a lot of people, so it's not just a question of balance and whether or not Standard's meta is balanced with Pirate warrior is extremely questionable. Maybe it's just a question of living in a 2 Acidic Swamp Ooze metagame and being thankful weapon removal is finally so useful, but I really doubt it because the games in and of themselves feel awful.
Yep I agree with you. I rather have the Mid Range Shaman meta over the "dead by turn 5" pirate trash now.
Just play a deck with taunts, oozes and heals bruh. I have a 60% winrate against warrior with Rogue of all classes, just by playing Tempo Rogue with 2 Ooze and 2 Argus. In fact, here's a simple guide for beating pirate / aggro decks with every class:
Rogue: Play tempo rogue with Oozes / Argus and lots of early game to race. You can't heal so you've got to go fast yourself with Rogue. If you're playing miracle and facing lots of aggro, switch decks, you simple minded fool! Unless you're a miracle god then the Pirate miracle list is OK, not good but OK against aggro
Paladin: You have two options, Out-aggro them or go for teched-out midrange. Same as Rogue, just play oozes and argus and also Wickerflame Burnbristle is broken vs other aggro decks. If you want to play midrange paladin just be prepared to go hard on the tech with oozes, arguses, second rate bruisers, and realize that these will hurt your other matchups, so pick carefully.
Mage: Just play reno mage with lots of removal, Ice Block, Ice Barrier, etc. Tempo mage with Water Elemental / Mirror Images isn't a hard counter but it does have a favorable matchup. Water Elemental is a nightmare for Pirate Warrior.
Priest: Dragon Priest out-taunts, Reno Priest out heals. Priest is the deck to pick if you really just want to win against aggro.
Warlock: You kind of have to draw Reno, but with enough tech the matchup is essentially a coinflip that's just a little bit in your favor. If you want to play zoo, um why do you want to play zoo? Go hyper cancer mode with argus and tech ooze, you could probably throw in patches + bloodsail corsair for a good 1 drop / anti-weapon tech as well. Zoo can race decks like pirate warrior by flooding really hard, getting the board and then playing taunts.
Druid: This is a little harder, Pirate Warrior is basically a counter to the current popular druid archetypes IMO like greedy jade druid. That said if you are truly facing nothing but aggro you can basically just play Taunt Druid, or you can play Egg Druid with Bloodsail Corsair / Patches as weapon tech and Defender of argus to help you race. Egg Druid is extremely underrated IMO.
Shaman: Greedy Midrange Shaman with Thing From Below, Jinyu Waterspeaker and Feral Spirits is better against aggro than ever. Shaman was oppressing aggro before Gadgetzan and they can oppress it even more after. Control Shaman is OK but I actually think Midrange is better vs aggro.
Warrior: Control warrior crushes aggro, always has, always will. Alley Armorsmith is a disgusting anti-aggro card that will basically win you the game when you play it. You can also play a more midrangey "Taunt warrior" with bloodhoofs / Twilight guardians (if you're going dragon).
Hunter: Hunter is probably the worst class right now, and likely the worst positioned against aggro warrior as well. But if you really, really want to play hunter for some reason you can play oozes, Bear Trap/Explosive Trap, Defender of Argus / Houndmaster (prolly both), and you'll probably want to be on the aggressive side yourself because you really need to hit your curve or else you will fall behind, and it is so hard to recover with hunter.
So yeah, there you go. If you can't beat pirate warrior with any of these decks, then I'm sorry but you just need to practice and get better, because one of these is bound to work just fine.
Article - December 12, 2016 Inside the head of a Pirate Warrior
Earlier this day, around 00:01 A.M., Player Justice (Custom Freeze mage) faced off against a Pirate warrior around the ranks of 16. After a tough start for Justice, the freeze effects were able to come on the board and iceblock was set up. As he was taking a pounding on the face, he played Emperor Thaurissan, covered by a Frost Nova. Although the Pirate warrior could have killed it, he decided to let it live for a total of 3 turns; until the end of the game.
After the opponent got overwhelmed by burst and the Custom Freeze mage was declared victor, Justice got the message pop up at the left side of the screen: "A recent opponent would like to be your "friend"".
The conversation that followed is to be seen in the attachments. What we can conclude from this conversation is:
- Pirate Warriors see themselves as people who play interesting decks; - Pirate Warriors see themselves skillful players; - Pirate Warriors are poor psychics and guess your name incorrect (John John?).
It was a pleasant match which gave valuable insights. I hope to be able to give you more 'insights in T1 netdecking minds' next time.
It's not the pirates that are ruining HS it's the fact that Blizzard keeps on printing 1 and 2-drops that obviously are far to powerful for their cost.
JUST RUN TAUNTS-nuff said
As jade druid deck I decided to tech in doomsayer(*2), sunwalker(*1),druid of the claw(*1),feral rage(*2) I find it easier facing pirate decks and tempo decks(doom sayer)
My god, I'm sick of these threads. Meta hasn't stabilized yet, if pirates are dominating then in a few weeks you'll see a lot of counter decks to those. In fact, one of the best decks of the moment, Dragon Priest, owns all pirate decks, except maybe Rogue, plus is good against a lot of other decks and it's super easy to play.
Forsen just got DESTROYED playing all pirate decks (Warrior, Shaman and Rogue) against Superjj's Dragon Priest deck. So, instead of whining, why don't you try a deck that's good against aggro for a change.
Maybe you should learn to evaluate cards instead of telling people to learn how to play?
Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice - Sneak Review! http://www.thepoxbox.com/challenges.php?id=batmanvsuperman
Pirate Warrior is a good boy when you survive after turn 6 or 7. But Aggro Shaman is a real asshole. It can rebuild its board more easily and has damage spells.
"Sit and come relax, riddle off the mac. It's the patch."
I've only seen one pirate warrior so far an I beat him with a reno mage deck I threw together in 10 minutes...
I would take Midrange Shaman over Pirate Warrior because even tho' it has a higher power/value level vs most decks it doesn't end games on T5 and expanding card pool narrows the power/value level gap as Midrange Shaman is "maxed out" with its current card choices. I think the problem might be more prominent in Wild than in Standard because of Ship's Cannon and the more casual nature of the format, which makes the deck less linear and encourages people to overrun the playerbase for easy Rank 5/Legend but I believe the fact that it can over take Wild for #1 Legend in a metagame where the control tools are better and more abundant shows you how serious the problem is when you don't have a metagame enforcer vs aggro and you're left with Reno Jackson.
I'm not sure how well Dragon Priest will hold up, but the problem I have with the "Paper, Scissors, Rock" logic of metagame balance is that it can't be a matter of Paper has a 100% loss rate vs Scissors, Scissors has a 100% loss rate vs Rock etc. because games shouldn't be polarized to automatic wins and losses. We need decks that have 70/30 match ups, 50/50 match ups etc. so that skill has more to do with maximizing win percentages than deck choice does. Jade Druid isn't a problem because it's a counter vs Control, it's a problem because it has a 90/10 match up vs control and those types of win/loss percentages need to be reserved for glass cannon decks like Freeze Mage and Worgen Warrior and not an entire archetype.
How a deck wins is more important than whether a deck wins for a lot of people, so it's not just a question of balance and whether or not Standard's meta is balanced with Pirate warrior is extremely questionable. Maybe it's just a question of living in a 2 Acidic Swamp Ooze metagame and being thankful weapon removal is finally so useful, but I really doubt it because the games in and of themselves feel awful.
Greetings traveler.
Just play a deck with taunts, oozes and heals bruh. I have a 60% winrate against warrior with Rogue of all classes, just by playing Tempo Rogue with 2 Ooze and 2 Argus. In fact, here's a simple guide for beating pirate / aggro decks with every class:
Rogue: Play tempo rogue with Oozes / Argus and lots of early game to race. You can't heal so you've got to go fast yourself with Rogue. If you're playing miracle and facing lots of aggro, switch decks, you simple minded fool! Unless you're a miracle god then the Pirate miracle list is OK, not good but OK against aggro
Paladin: You have two options, Out-aggro them or go for teched-out midrange. Same as Rogue, just play oozes and argus and also Wickerflame Burnbristle is broken vs other aggro decks. If you want to play midrange paladin just be prepared to go hard on the tech with oozes, arguses, second rate bruisers, and realize that these will hurt your other matchups, so pick carefully.
Mage: Just play reno mage with lots of removal, Ice Block, Ice Barrier, etc. Tempo mage with Water Elemental / Mirror Images isn't a hard counter but it does have a favorable matchup. Water Elemental is a nightmare for Pirate Warrior.
Priest: Dragon Priest out-taunts, Reno Priest out heals. Priest is the deck to pick if you really just want to win against aggro.
Warlock: You kind of have to draw Reno, but with enough tech the matchup is essentially a coinflip that's just a little bit in your favor. If you want to play zoo, um why do you want to play zoo? Go hyper cancer mode with argus and tech ooze, you could probably throw in patches + bloodsail corsair for a good 1 drop / anti-weapon tech as well. Zoo can race decks like pirate warrior by flooding really hard, getting the board and then playing taunts.
Druid: This is a little harder, Pirate Warrior is basically a counter to the current popular druid archetypes IMO like greedy jade druid. That said if you are truly facing nothing but aggro you can basically just play Taunt Druid, or you can play Egg Druid with Bloodsail Corsair / Patches as weapon tech and Defender of argus to help you race. Egg Druid is extremely underrated IMO.
Shaman: Greedy Midrange Shaman with Thing From Below, Jinyu Waterspeaker and Feral Spirits is better against aggro than ever. Shaman was oppressing aggro before Gadgetzan and they can oppress it even more after. Control Shaman is OK but I actually think Midrange is better vs aggro.
Warrior: Control warrior crushes aggro, always has, always will. Alley Armorsmith is a disgusting anti-aggro card that will basically win you the game when you play it. You can also play a more midrangey "Taunt warrior" with bloodhoofs / Twilight guardians (if you're going dragon).
Hunter: Hunter is probably the worst class right now, and likely the worst positioned against aggro warrior as well. But if you really, really want to play hunter for some reason you can play oozes, Bear Trap/Explosive Trap, Defender of Argus / Houndmaster (prolly both), and you'll probably want to be on the aggressive side yourself because you really need to hit your curve or else you will fall behind, and it is so hard to recover with hunter.
So yeah, there you go. If you can't beat pirate warrior with any of these decks, then I'm sorry but you just need to practice and get better, because one of these is bound to work just fine.
Article - December 12, 2016
Inside the head of a Pirate Warrior
Earlier this day, around 00:01 A.M., Player Justice (Custom Freeze mage) faced off against a Pirate warrior around the ranks of 16. After a tough start for Justice, the freeze effects were able to come on the board and iceblock was set up. As he was taking a pounding on the face, he played Emperor Thaurissan, covered by a Frost Nova. Although the Pirate warrior could have killed it, he decided to let it live for a total of 3 turns; until the end of the game.
After the opponent got overwhelmed by burst and the Custom Freeze mage was declared victor, Justice got the message pop up at the left side of the screen: "A recent opponent would like to be your "friend"".
The conversation that followed is to be seen in the attachments. What we can conclude from this conversation is:
- Pirate Warriors see themselves as people who play interesting decks;
- Pirate Warriors see themselves skillful players;
- Pirate Warriors are poor psychics and guess your name incorrect (John John?).
It was a pleasant match which gave valuable insights. I hope to be able to give you more 'insights in T1 netdecking minds' next time.
For now, kind regards,
Justice
Taunts & weapon removal will shut them down fast. Control / Reno priest is a lot of fun to play against that deck.
It's not the pirates that are ruining HS it's the fact that Blizzard keeps on printing 1 and 2-drops that obviously are far to powerful for their cost.
I say DO WHAT YOU WANT 'CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREEEE
I love fast games, they remind me of playing goblin decks on MTG
I feel safe now.