Hello :) I took the time to make a few nerfed versions of current cards in order to create, what I think, is a more balanced and healthy game. Please let me know what you agree with or disagree with. I'm going to try to avoid negativity here. I mean to offer constructive criticism to the Hearthstone team in hopes that they may consider taking action based on these fan comments. This will include Standard and Wild cards, because Wild balance matters to me and many others.
I included everything in a spoiler tag to make my post not take up a whole page. I also forgot to match the watermark with the expansion that they were released in, so I buffed them all into the Classic set on accident -_-
I personally love the effect of Mysterious Challenger, I just wish he wasn't such an aggressive midrange powerhouse. I feel that for his effect to remain the same, he needs to be more understatted than he currently is.
In order to keep Wild aggro and secret Paladins in check, I would also like to see Avenge nerfed a bit. A 1 mana 3/2 is insane, so I suggest that Avenge give 1 less attack. This makes it less of an aggressive card, while also still being a good secret and having great Mysterious Challenger and Noble Sacrifice synergy.
I feel that far too many games involving Tempo Mage are won/lost based on massive Flamewaker burst damage, OR an unanswered Flamewaker. I want to keep the effect the same to keep the spirit of the card intact (and dealing 1 damage is simply too weak). However, I have made him much more inefficient at trading on board and made him much easier to kill, as he would now die to many 3-damage spells or weapons. This would make playing him on turn 3 a very bad play, limiting him mostly to his combo potential. Although the nerf does mess up the flavor of Demented Frostcaller. Sorry pal ;)
EDIT: At this point, I've been convinced that the Flamewaker nerf is too harsh. I might make it a 1/4 instead, but I still stand by that he should be nerfed somehow. Especially for the sake of poor Tavern Brawl lol
I think most can agree that Thing from Below is a big part in what makes Shaman such a powerhouse. 0 mana 5/5 Taunts are pretty good, and the requirement for getting them is simply to play the game as you normally would. It is often the case that players will play Thing From Below on turns 5-6 for around 2-3 mana. This nerf would make it to where it would be just a bit later into the game before he can hit the board on the same turn as things like Maelstrom Portal, Lightning Storm, or Hex, making the tempo swings of Midrange Shaman less devastating.
I personally think that Spirit Claws is also a huge part of what makes the Spell Damage-infused Midrange Shaman so powerful. I suggest adding 1 Overload to the card to balance it. This makes a turn 2 Bloodmage Thalnos, Kobold Geomancer, or Wrath of Air Totem impossible (without coin) if playing Spirit Claws on turn 1.
I opted to nerf Boom Bot to have a much less devastating RNG-heavy effect. Dr. Boom will still spawn 2 Boom Bots, but I think this nerf may push Dr. Boom to not be an auto-include in all Midrange or Tempo decks. The possibility of rolling 3 or 4 damage is what makes Boom Bots so powerful right now, and I think that even with this nerf, Dr. Boom is still great value for 7 mana.
I think Mysterious Challenger is pretty fair as a 6/6 without Paladin having access to the second best 2-drop in the game and THE best 3-drop in the game.
I think Mysterious Challenger is pretty fair as a 6/6 without Paladin having access to the second best 2-drop in the game and THE best 3-drop in the game.
I think Mysterious Challenger is pretty fair as a 6/6 without Paladin having access to the second best 2-drop in the game and THE best 3-drop in the game.
It's true. The problem with Secret Paladin in its prime wasn't a swing Challenger turn (because you could prepare for them and choose the order in which to trigger secrets), it was the fact that by that point they'd have a Minibot, a few recruits, Shredder and Belcher on board. MC on an empty board could usually be dealt with fairly easy by most classes. It was turns 1-5 that made it oppressive.
Mysterious Challenger is the enabler for an entire archetype. Your nerf would destroy that archetype (even if it is cancerous). Secret Pally's amazing curve is the problem, not Just Mysterious Challenger.
Most of this is kinda reasonable except Flamewaker.I would prefer him to be a 1/4 as it would give him less power to trade but would be a little harder to kill.
I definitely don't disagree with you. I think a 1/4 would be fine. My thoughts were that I wanted it to die (on an empty board) to a bit more than just Truesilver Champion, Eviscerate, Shadow Strike, or Shadow Bolt.
I think Mysterious Challenger is pretty fair as a 6/6 without Paladin having access to the second best 2-drop in the game and THE best 3-drop in the game.
I've been playing a lot of Secret Paladin in Standard and I actually still think he's pretty busted as a 6/6. If I coin a Challenger, I usually win the game if I get all my secrets. However, my nerf was mostly looking ahead to the future of Wild. In Standard right now his power level is pretty reasonable, compared to other decks anyway.
Mysterious Challenger is the enabler for an entire archetype. Your nerf would destroy that archetype (even if it is cancerous). Secret Pally's amazing curve is the problem, not Just Mysterious Challenger.
I don't think it would destroy the archetype at all. I understand that their curve is the main strength of Secret Paladin, but when they come out of turn 6 with a 10/9 Challenger, it's just an insane tempo swing which allows them to be much more aggressive if you can't kill it. With my nerfs to Avenge and Challenger, the biggest one they could get is a 7/8 (with Avenge and Competitive Spirit going to the Challenger). Still very powerful for having drawn and played 3-5 secrets.
the Shaman and the boom bot nerfs are perfect, i fuckin' despise boom bots. The others are kind of overkill and would make the cards almost unplayable,MC is fine, as seen in Standard, there already is a 1 mana 2/2 value card with no downside, Avenge needs to be triggered, minibot and muster are way worse than that, thank god they're out of standard.
While Flame waker does warrant some hate sometimes, you need to actually play Tempo mage a bit to see how the extreme RNG factor of it diminishes the card's power, thus i would not nerf it, mana wyrm on the other hand..
Mysterious Challenger is the enabler for an entire archetype. Your nerf would destroy that archetype (even if it is cancerous). Secret Pally's amazing curve is the problem, not Just Mysterious Challenger.
I don't think it would destroy the archetype at all. I understand that their curve is the main strength of Secret Paladin, but when they come out of turn 6 with a 10/9 Challenger, it's just an insane tempo swing which allows them to be much more aggressive if you can't kill it. With my nerfs to Avenge and Challenger, the biggest one they could get is a 7/8 (with Avenge and Competitive Spirit going to the Challenger). Still very powerful for having drawn and played 3-5 secrets.
A 7 or a 10 attack minion bashing your face in is almost the same, it demands the same type of instant removal. As was mentioned above, MC isn't really the problem, though it's a strong card, the offenders here are minibot, muster and shredder.
the Shaman and the boom bot nerfs are perfect, i fuckin' despise boom bots. The others are kind of overkill and would make the cards almost unplayable,MC is fine, as seen in Standard, there already is a 1 mana 2/2 value card with no downside, Avenge needs to be triggered, minibot and muster are way worse than that, thank god they're out of standard.
While Flame waker does warrant some hate sometimes, you need to actually play Tempo mage a bit to see how the extreme RNG factor of it diminishes the card's power, thus i would not nerf it, mana wyrm on the other hand..
My thinking behind Avenge was that I just simply didn't know how to nerf Shielded Minibot or Muster for Battle. I could make Minibot a 2/1, but I'm not sure how much impact it would have compared to my Avenge nerf. Hard for me to tell.
And at this point I've been convinced that my Flamewaker nerf was too harsh. I think a 1/4 would be balanced. While I don't play much Tempo Mage, I have played a little and I play against it all the time. I know how clunky (no cheap spells in hand) and unreliable Flamewaker can be sometimes, but when he's good, he's totally busted.
A reasonable Thing from below Nerf would be to add "cannot cost less than (1)". some have even gone as far to suggest not less than (2). Removing taunt makes it useless. Making it more difficult to drop 2 of these and still take a full turn would be enough.
agree on spirit claws. Even though it buffs trogg, the overload prevents t1 claws into t2 wrath of air/thalnos without coin. slows things down a bit vs. zoo.
removing taunt is the best way to nerf it imo, it allows for you to get at more valuable minions much easier (such as a well known one drop that scales insanely quick)
Please discuss card nerfs in individual threads. Otherwise we end up with too much duplication on the forum, because the replies will all be the same as the replies in the main threads.
Hello :) I took the time to make a few nerfed versions of current cards in order to create, what I think, is a more balanced and healthy game. Please let me know what you agree with or disagree with. I'm going to try to avoid negativity here. I mean to offer constructive criticism to the Hearthstone team in hopes that they may consider taking action based on these fan comments. This will include Standard and Wild cards, because Wild balance matters to me and many others.
I included everything in a spoiler tag to make my post not take up a whole page. I also forgot to match the watermark with the expansion that they were released in, so I buffed them all into the Classic set on accident -_-
I personally love the effect of Mysterious Challenger, I just wish he wasn't such an aggressive midrange powerhouse. I feel that for his effect to remain the same, he needs to be more understatted than he currently is.
In order to keep Wild aggro and secret Paladins in check, I would also like to see Avenge nerfed a bit. A 1 mana 3/2 is insane, so I suggest that Avenge give 1 less attack. This makes it less of an aggressive card, while also still being a good secret and having great Mysterious Challenger and Noble Sacrifice synergy.
I feel that far too many games involving Tempo Mage are won/lost based on massive Flamewaker burst damage, OR an unanswered Flamewaker. I want to keep the effect the same to keep the spirit of the card intact (and dealing 1 damage is simply too weak). However, I have made him much more inefficient at trading on board and made him much easier to kill, as he would now die to many 3-damage spells or weapons. This would make playing him on turn 3 a very bad play, limiting him mostly to his combo potential. Although the nerf does mess up the flavor of Demented Frostcaller. Sorry pal ;)
EDIT: At this point, I've been convinced that the Flamewaker nerf is too harsh. I might make it a 1/4 instead, but I still stand by that he should be nerfed somehow. Especially for the sake of poor Tavern Brawl lol
I think most can agree that Thing from Below is a big part in what makes Shaman such a powerhouse. 0 mana 5/5 Taunts are pretty good, and the requirement for getting them is simply to play the game as you normally would. It is often the case that players will play Thing From Below on turns 5-6 for around 2-3 mana. This nerf would make it to where it would be just a bit later into the game before he can hit the board on the same turn as things like Maelstrom Portal, Lightning Storm, or Hex, making the tempo swings of Midrange Shaman less devastating.
I personally think that Spirit Claws is also a huge part of what makes the Spell Damage-infused Midrange Shaman so powerful. I suggest adding 1 Overload to the card to balance it. This makes a turn 2 Bloodmage Thalnos, Kobold Geomancer, or Wrath of Air Totem impossible (without coin) if playing Spirit Claws on turn 1.
I opted to nerf Boom Bot to have a much less devastating RNG-heavy effect. Dr. Boom will still spawn 2 Boom Bots, but I think this nerf may push Dr. Boom to not be an auto-include in all Midrange or Tempo decks. The possibility of rolling 3 or 4 damage is what makes Boom Bots so powerful right now, and I think that even with this nerf, Dr. Boom is still great value for 7 mana.
QQ
I think Mysterious Challenger is pretty fair as a 6/6 without Paladin having access to the second best 2-drop in the game and THE best 3-drop in the game.
I think thing from below needs to lose taunt and cost 7 base
Seems ok.
Mysterious Challenger is the enabler for an entire archetype. Your nerf would destroy that archetype (even if it is cancerous). Secret Pally's amazing curve is the problem, not Just Mysterious Challenger.
Shanking ankles since 2015.
the Shaman and the boom bot nerfs are perfect, i fuckin' despise boom bots. The others are kind of overkill and would make the cards almost unplayable,MC is fine, as seen in Standard, there already is a 1 mana 2/2 value card with no downside, Avenge needs to be triggered, minibot and muster are way worse than that, thank god they're out of standard.
While Flame waker does warrant some hate sometimes, you need to actually play Tempo mage a bit to see how the extreme RNG factor of it diminishes the card's power, thus i would not nerf it, mana wyrm on the other hand..
A reasonable Thing from below Nerf would be to add "cannot cost less than (1)". some have even gone as far to suggest not less than (2). Removing taunt makes it useless. Making it more difficult to drop 2 of these and still take a full turn would be enough.
agree on spirit claws. Even though it buffs trogg, the overload prevents t1 claws into t2 wrath of air/thalnos without coin. slows things down a bit vs. zoo.
dr. boom isn't even OP anymore, and the only good wild decks that play him are secret paladin and midrange hunter
Vvreeeew.
removing taunt is the best way to nerf it imo, it allows for you to get at more valuable minions much easier (such as a well known one drop that scales insanely quick)
Wow. I thought Blizzard was idiotic when they killed Warsong Commander. Looks like I was wrong.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
Please discuss card nerfs in individual threads. Otherwise we end up with too much duplication on the forum, because the replies will all be the same as the replies in the main threads.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/58912-mysterious-challenger-is-op-nerf
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/136049-secretkeeper-or-avenge-nerf-needed
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/43533-so-whos-ready-for-a-flamewaker-nerf
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/174633-nerf-thing-from-below
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/27787-does-dr-boom-need-to-be-nerfed
Since there doesn't seem to be a central thread for discussing Spirit Claws, I've created one for you:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/178730-nerf-spirit-claws