He will get nerfed eventually. Cards that can be used in virtually any deck, while making the game "unfun" don't stick around for long as they are. Expect a nerf. Since it's also a free card, Blizzard won't even hesitate.
I expect something along the lines of "Endlessly infuse: 4", so that he will be more relevant on token/swarm decks.
While I'm not a huge fan of the card, and oftentimes it feels like whoever plays it first wins, I do run it in a,couple of my midrange decks because of Theotar you just need multiple ways of closing out games, and because there are very few good taunts outside of mountain bear, and very little healing in standard. Since implock is just brain dead go face until you lose the board, then play curses and aoe to kill your opponent, or hunter just always,drawing the nuts and generating so many minions it can be hard to keep up with the pressure.
Even in those matchups, turn 10 is often too late, but it can help. Also nice against quest priest that literally just plays 39 cards that heal, remove or draw, having multiple ways to close put that match-up is important.
I don't like this card but I can generally accept its existence. It's interesting to try to play around it.
The problem I have is that the battlecry can be repeated. It's just too powerful for that kind of effect, makes end of control vs control games very stupid. You're playing an intense game against a druid and suddenly he plays Brann+Denathrius and it's over.
I only play control (other styles bore me) and that kind of games ruins my experience at the moment. But Denathrius is not my only problem : Bran+Jace is just as stupid.
In my opinion, some very powerful battlecries / deathrattles (from legendaries obviously) should become something like "Single battlecry" which would mean that a player can only trigger it once in a game. Only dreaming though, I know such a change will never happen :)
Sire Den. isnt even in top meta decks played in standard. Those complaining are in low elo or hardstuck. Check out HSreplay.net > Meta tab at top of page > you can see the tiers or you can go to sort by Class decks and see win % that way.
Sire Den is a card that takes a lot of turns, minions to set up. It's not that great. Same people complain about Sire probs complained about C'thun...
Theotar is going to 6 mana 4/4 pretty much confirmed by streamers playtesting Deathknight. As for Sire Denathrius there are three possible ways they can nerf it to reduce the number of people playing it.
1. Increase its infuse cost per damage changing it to 2 per 1 damage.
2. Place a 15-20 Damage Cap on it.
3. Make it only target Minions.
Out of the three I think option 1 and 3 are the best the card is so strong because it fits into any deck that runs minions and most of the time offers not only a strong body with lifesteal but more healing than Reno jackson and a lot more easy to manipulate out of your deck.
So long as Sire is so strong Theo is going to see more play as its an easy way to steal a win condition this was proven when every streamer for deathknight playtest had both Theotard and Sire in the decks. Astarlor seemed like a more balanced version of C'thun combined with pyros which I like but I've hated both Theo and Sire since day 1.
I gotta say - I hope more than anything that they nerf/HoF Denathrius, especially with the nerf to Theotar (who is also a stupid card but will still end up being played because of Denathrius). So many games where you lose because a card they had in hand becomes a win condition on its own basically just by playing the game. Did you manage to steal/eat it? - you win. No? You lose. Even though Shaman isn't currently viable on ladder, the shennanigans possible in those decks is ever more stupid, where even a 10 damage Denathrius is enough to set up the OTK.
This isn't an "im salty" post, but playing against implock (for example) - you clear board after board, you finally stabilise, they're low on resources and then "boom" - game over. Wow - much fun.
It doesn't really generate any sort of meaningful counterplay or fun interaction. Even playing it isn't fun (imo) - it's basically like an "I win" card if drawn at the appropriate time and it's super un-fun to have your own mega Denathrius stolen/eaten.
If it were up to me I would nerf him to minion damage only - a minion that clears a board and heals your hero to full and leaves a 10/10 lifesteal on the board is pretty good imo (though it would definitely see a lot less play than the current version).
Either way, Hearthstone is gonna be extremely un-fun if he's left as is until he rotates.
Sire Den. isnt even in top meta decks played in standard. Those complaining are in low elo or hardstuck. Check out HSreplay.net > Meta tab at top of page > you can see the tiers or you can go to sort by Class decks and see win % that way.
Sire Den is a card that takes a lot of turns, minions to set up. It's not that great. Same people complain about Sire probs complained about C'thun...
Imp Warlock, Beast Hunter, Relic DH, Control Shaman, Ramp Druid, Control Paladin, Thief Rogue, Spooky Mage, Evolve Shaman, Taunt Druid. All of them play it. If you compare it to C'thun, you have no idea what you are talking about
At legend Thief Rogue, Ramp Druid, Relic DH, Spooky Mage, Control Paladin, Control Shaman alone are more than 50% decks of the meta, at top 1k legend - more than 60%. That means every second deck you face plays Sire.
You might not play at legend, but still at all ranks the most popular decks are Thief Rogue, Ramp Druid, Imp Warlock, Spooky Mage, Beast Hunter, Aggro Druid, Relic DH. In Top 7 most popular decks only one does not play Sire!
And also extremely unfun (imo). This point is often missed but really is important given that the whole point of a game is to have fun. Fun and balance are two seprate issues (although in this case I think they both apply).
Sire Den. isnt even in top meta decks played in standard. Those complaining are in low elo or hardstuck. Check out HSreplay.net > Meta tab at top of page > you can see the tiers or you can go to sort by Class decks and see win % that way.
Sire Den is a card that takes a lot of turns, minions to set up. It's not that great. Same people complain about Sire probs complained about C'thun...
you mean the card i see at 10 cost in all the decks of the top tier classes is not Denathrius ? They usually dont get to play the card? yes but that is because you lose before they charge it to lethal. This is the thing tho...IF you manage to get the board they will Denathrius for 2X+ damage and you will lose most certanly. Thats the point of the complain "whenever i get the upper hand against my oponent i lose to Denathrius" Thats the problem, not Denathrius on curve being a overbrokencard.
“This isn't an "im salty" post, but playing against implock (for example) - you clear board after board, you finally stabilise, they're low on resources and then "boom" - game over. Wow - much fun. ” I wish I could upload more than once. This is so true. Aggro’s weakness should be that if you manage to push back the initial onslaught, you’re in for a victory (sort of like pushing back aggro Druid). Denathtrius provides a fail safe to what should be the downside of playing aggro (beginner decks). On the bright side, Implock players will temporarily try DK so there’ll be a window of a couple of days where that tumor inducing deck will be gone. Temporarily. As an aside, I’m not sure what fun there is to have to always follow the same strategy regardless of the opposition and go through the patterns. It really is a beginner deck.
Keep in mind that the whole Denathtrius fiasco is not an oversight as it hasn’t been fixed yet despite DK coming up which will abuse the mechanic to oblivion. This being said, with Theotar being nerfed so bad, people will likely include Patchwork or include all of them: Mutanus, Patchwork and Theotar just to make sure they deal with Denathtrius.
As mentioned, reducing his cost and having him deal board damage would be plenty.
“This isn't an "im salty" post, but playing against implock (for example) - you clear board after board, you finally stabilise, they're low on resources and then "boom" - game over. Wow - much fun. ” I wish I could upload more than once. This is so true. Aggro’s weakness should be that if you manage to push back the initial onslaught, you’re in for a victory (sort of like pushing back aggro Druid). Denathtrius provides a fail safe to what should be the downside of playing aggro (beginner decks). On the bright side, Implock players will temporarily try DK so there’ll be a window of a couple of days where that tumor inducing deck will be gone. Temporarily. As an aside, I’m not sure what fun there is to have to always follow the same strategy regardless of the opposition and go through the patterns. It really is a beginner deck.
Keep in mind that the whole Denathtrius fiasco is not an oversight as it hasn’t been fixed yet despite DK coming up which will abuse the mechanic to oblivion. This being said, with Theotar being nerfed so bad, people will likely include Patchwork or include all of them: Mutanus, Patchwork and Theotar just to make sure they deal with Denathtrius.
As mentioned, reducing his cost and having him deal board damage would be plenty.
Hahaha here is the guy claiming control equals skill and aggro equals beginner decks.
Hahaha here is the guy claiming control equals skill and aggro equals beginner decks.
It's objectively true that control decks are harder to play than aggro decks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.
Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again. Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
That disqualifies your opinion on the game in general
Aggro decks are beginner friendly, that dont mean aggro decks are not strong or less skilled, is just a fact that their are more easy to pilot and have less space for mistakes. For example token druid aoe buff are just 1+ each normally that keep your board on 4 Attack normally and that prevent you for get target from AoE 5+ AoE from Priest of the 3- less attack AoE too. A lot of players know that 4 is the magic number but beginners will get a 4 attack board even if they overcommit half of the time for the cost of those spells. That is intended. To help players to learn faster how to use the deck.
He dont said that by any means. He said something that is very true. Denathrius is a card that rewar aggro player for actually losin the game on the normal terms of their decks. Which is kind of a problem because control decks have very limite ways to dealt with Denathrius himself right now and they cant use it in most of their decks (Priest cant, Warrior cant, Mage can but them againt mage is a long game anticontrol deck so that its not rare). Aggro need a card like Denatrius? i doubt so, hunter and druid have very good odds of end the game before turn 8 right now and i cant name a deck outside Mage that has a solid game plan to stop those decks right now even if you take Denathrius of the deck so...why dont make his Battle Cry start with 0 damage for example? So you ACTUALLY need outlast the control deck to get the kill.
A end game wincon that benefits too much from plays that your oponent is forced to do is just bad design in a lot of ways.
Hahaha here is the guy claiming control equals skill and aggro equals beginner decks.
It's objectively true that control decks are harder to play than aggro decks.
Nope it isn’t. Best example wild copper hunter, was very hard to play and an aggro deck
Will you deneid that the majority of Aggro decks are more easy to learn and play for beginner players than slow combo-control decks that required specific mulligans for certain matchups ? just to name one of the reasons why Aggro is waayy more intuitive to play for a new player.
I’d say that playing Implock and aggro Druid requires very little skill, especially Implock. There’s no strategy involved, Implock uses the exact same strategy in every game. It doesn’t matter what they play against, which makes me wonder how it can be fun in any way. It’s like playing chess and using the exact same strategy regardless of what the other player does, which an experienced player wouldn’t do. They adapt to the board. Implock requires no adaptation of any sort. It’s ok, but many players who reach legend on Implock wouldn’t be able to beat silver if they had to use a 40 cards deck which requires a more diverse gameplay. It’s ok. Let’s just not pretend that playing a Implock requires deep strategy, because it doesn’t.
Nope it isn’t. Best example wild copper hunter, was very hard to play and an aggro deck
"Men are stronger than women."
"Nope they aren't. Best example Olga Liashchuk, very strong and a woman"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.
Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again. Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
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He will get nerfed eventually. Cards that can be used in virtually any deck, while making the game "unfun" don't stick around for long as they are. Expect a nerf. Since it's also a free card, Blizzard won't even hesitate.
I expect something along the lines of "Endlessly infuse: 4", so that he will be more relevant on token/swarm decks.
Denathrius will definitely become a staple in DK, so expect to see every unholy and blood rune DK run it for sure.
While I'm not a huge fan of the card, and oftentimes it feels like whoever plays it first wins, I do run it in a,couple of my midrange decks because of Theotar you just need multiple ways of closing out games, and because there are very few good taunts outside of mountain bear, and very little healing in standard. Since implock is just brain dead go face until you lose the board, then play curses and aoe to kill your opponent, or hunter just always,drawing the nuts and generating so many minions it can be hard to keep up with the pressure.
Even in those matchups, turn 10 is often too late, but it can help. Also nice against quest priest that literally just plays 39 cards that heal, remove or draw, having multiple ways to close put that match-up is important.
I don't like this card but I can generally accept its existence. It's interesting to try to play around it.
The problem I have is that the battlecry can be repeated. It's just too powerful for that kind of effect, makes end of control vs control games very stupid. You're playing an intense game against a druid and suddenly he plays Brann+Denathrius and it's over.
I only play control (other styles bore me) and that kind of games ruins my experience at the moment. But Denathrius is not my only problem : Bran+Jace is just as stupid.
In my opinion, some very powerful battlecries / deathrattles (from legendaries obviously) should become something like "Single battlecry" which would mean that a player can only trigger it once in a game. Only dreaming though, I know such a change will never happen :)
Sire Den. isnt even in top meta decks played in standard. Those complaining are in low elo or hardstuck. Check out HSreplay.net > Meta tab at top of page > you can see the tiers or you can go to sort by Class decks and see win % that way.
Sire Den is a card that takes a lot of turns, minions to set up. It's not that great. Same people complain about Sire probs complained about C'thun...
I don’t know if anyone has watched the showcase for DK but if you think Denathtrius is bad now, wait until DK, it’s going to be nauseating.
Theotar is going to 6 mana 4/4 pretty much confirmed by streamers playtesting Deathknight. As for Sire Denathrius there are three possible ways they can nerf it to reduce the number of people playing it.
1. Increase its infuse cost per damage changing it to 2 per 1 damage.
2. Place a 15-20 Damage Cap on it.
3. Make it only target Minions.
Out of the three I think option 1 and 3 are the best the card is so strong because it fits into any deck that runs minions and most of the time offers not only a strong body with lifesteal but more healing than Reno jackson and a lot more easy to manipulate out of your deck.
So long as Sire is so strong Theo is going to see more play as its an easy way to steal a win condition this was proven when every streamer for deathknight playtest had both Theotard and Sire in the decks. Astarlor seemed like a more balanced version of C'thun combined with pyros which I like but I've hated both Theo and Sire since day 1.
I gotta say - I hope more than anything that they nerf/HoF Denathrius, especially with the nerf to Theotar (who is also a stupid card but will still end up being played because of Denathrius). So many games where you lose because a card they had in hand becomes a win condition on its own basically just by playing the game. Did you manage to steal/eat it? - you win. No? You lose. Even though Shaman isn't currently viable on ladder, the shennanigans possible in those decks is ever more stupid, where even a 10 damage Denathrius is enough to set up the OTK.
This isn't an "im salty" post, but playing against implock (for example) - you clear board after board, you finally stabilise, they're low on resources and then "boom" - game over. Wow - much fun.
It doesn't really generate any sort of meaningful counterplay or fun interaction. Even playing it isn't fun (imo) - it's basically like an "I win" card if drawn at the appropriate time and it's super un-fun to have your own mega Denathrius stolen/eaten.
If it were up to me I would nerf him to minion damage only - a minion that clears a board and heals your hero to full and leaves a 10/10 lifesteal on the board is pretty good imo (though it would definitely see a lot less play than the current version).
Either way, Hearthstone is gonna be extremely un-fun if he's left as is until he rotates.
Imp Warlock, Beast Hunter, Relic DH, Control Shaman, Ramp Druid, Control Paladin, Thief Rogue, Spooky Mage, Evolve Shaman, Taunt Druid. All of them play it. If you compare it to C'thun, you have no idea what you are talking about
At legend Thief Rogue, Ramp Druid, Relic DH, Spooky Mage, Control Paladin, Control Shaman alone are more than 50% decks of the meta, at top 1k legend - more than 60%. That means every second deck you face plays Sire.
You might not play at legend, but still at all ranks the most popular decks are Thief Rogue, Ramp Druid, Imp Warlock, Spooky Mage, Beast Hunter, Aggro Druid, Relic DH. In Top 7 most popular decks only one does not play Sire!
So yes, Sire is too good and too popular.
And also extremely unfun (imo). This point is often missed but really is important given that the whole point of a game is to have fun. Fun and balance are two seprate issues (although in this case I think they both apply).
you mean the card i see at 10 cost in all the decks of the top tier classes is not Denathrius ? They usually dont get to play the card? yes but that is because you lose before they charge it to lethal. This is the thing tho...IF you manage to get the board they will Denathrius for 2X+ damage and you will lose most certanly. Thats the point of the complain "whenever i get the upper hand against my oponent i lose to Denathrius" Thats the problem, not Denathrius on curve being a overbrokencard.
“This isn't an "im salty" post, but playing against implock (for example) - you clear board after board, you finally stabilise, they're low on resources and then "boom" - game over. Wow - much fun. ”
I wish I could upload more than once. This is so true. Aggro’s weakness should be that if you manage to push back the initial onslaught, you’re in for a victory (sort of like pushing back aggro Druid). Denathtrius provides a fail safe to what should be the downside of playing aggro (beginner decks). On the bright side, Implock players will temporarily try DK so there’ll be a window of a couple of days where that tumor inducing deck will be gone. Temporarily. As an aside, I’m not sure what fun there is to have to always follow the same strategy regardless of the opposition and go through the patterns. It really is a beginner deck.
Keep in mind that the whole Denathtrius fiasco is not an oversight as it hasn’t been fixed yet despite DK coming up which will abuse the mechanic to oblivion. This being said, with Theotar being nerfed so bad, people will likely include Patchwork or include all of them: Mutanus, Patchwork and Theotar just to make sure they deal with Denathtrius.
As mentioned, reducing his cost and having him deal board damage would be plenty.
Hahaha here is the guy claiming control equals skill and aggro equals beginner decks.
That disqualifies your opinion on the game in general
It's objectively true that control decks are harder to play than aggro decks.
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore.The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again.
Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore.
The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
Aggro decks are beginner friendly, that dont mean aggro decks are not strong or less skilled, is just a fact that their are more easy to pilot and have less space for mistakes. For example token druid aoe buff are just 1+ each normally that keep your board on 4 Attack normally and that prevent you for get target from AoE 5+ AoE from Priest of the 3- less attack AoE too. A lot of players know that 4 is the magic number but beginners will get a 4 attack board even if they overcommit half of the time for the cost of those spells. That is intended. To help players to learn faster how to use the deck.
He dont said that by any means. He said something that is very true. Denathrius is a card that rewar aggro player for actually losin the game on the normal terms of their decks. Which is kind of a problem because control decks have very limite ways to dealt with Denathrius himself right now and they cant use it in most of their decks (Priest cant, Warrior cant, Mage can but them againt mage is a long game anticontrol deck so that its not rare). Aggro need a card like Denatrius? i doubt so, hunter and druid have very good odds of end the game before turn 8 right now and i cant name a deck outside Mage that has a solid game plan to stop those decks right now even if you take Denathrius of the deck so...why dont make his Battle Cry start with 0 damage for example? So you ACTUALLY need outlast the control deck to get the kill.
A end game wincon that benefits too much from plays that your oponent is forced to do is just bad design in a lot of ways.
Nope it isn’t. Best example wild copper hunter, was very hard to play and an aggro deck
Will you deneid that the majority of Aggro decks are more easy to learn and play for beginner players than slow combo-control decks that required specific mulligans for certain matchups ? just to name one of the reasons why Aggro is waayy more intuitive to play for a new player.
I’d say that playing Implock and aggro Druid requires very little skill, especially Implock. There’s no strategy involved, Implock uses the exact same strategy in every game. It doesn’t matter what they play against, which makes me wonder how it can be fun in any way. It’s like playing chess and using the exact same strategy regardless of what the other player does, which an experienced player wouldn’t do. They adapt to the board. Implock requires no adaptation of any sort.
It’s ok, but many players who reach legend on Implock wouldn’t be able to beat silver if they had to use a 40 cards deck which requires a more diverse gameplay. It’s ok. Let’s just not pretend that playing a Implock requires deep strategy, because it doesn’t.
"Men are stronger than women."
"Nope they aren't. Best example Olga Liashchuk, very strong and a woman"
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore.The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again.
Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore.
The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.