I would have to agree Star Student Stelina is very far from being a '1'. Gaining information from 3 cards that they're holding is huge, not to mention you get to reduce their hand size. This is what made Madame Lazul so good, it was the huge information gain you got from her ability. For Aggro, Star Student Stelina is even better because you can remove their best counter from hand. She is like a 3 or 4 dude.
I would have to agree Star Student Stelina is very far from being a '1'. Gaining information from 3 cards that they're holding is huge, not to mention you get to reduce their hand size. This is what made Madame Lazul so good, it was the huge information gain you got from her ability. For Aggro, Star Student Stelina is even better because you can remove their best counter from hand. She is like a 3 or 4 dude.
It depends if you see a World where Control DeamonHunter is a viable (at least tier 2 ) deck.
If not it doesnt matter if the card by itself is better than Madame Lazul. If DH is still a tempo/aggro class you dont play a gameplan interrupting card with questionable effect. You either play lots of stats, carddraw or removal. No way an aggrodeck can spend 4 mana do nothing immediate to the board/face.
I would have to agree Star Student Stelina is very far from being a '1'. Gaining information from 3 cards that they're holding is huge, not to mention you get to reduce their hand size. This is what made Madame Lazul so good, it was the huge information gain you got from her ability. For Aggro, Star Student Stelina is even better because you can remove their best counter from hand. She is like a 3 or 4 dude.
It depends if you see a World where Control DeamonHunter is a viable (at least tier 2 ) deck.
If not it doesnt matter if the card by itself is better than Madame Lazul. If DH is still a tempo/aggro class you dont play a gameplan interrupting card with questionable effect. You either play lots of stats, carddraw or removal. No way an aggrodeck can spend 4 mana do nothing immediate to the board/face.
I never said anything about Control i only mentioned Aggro. Removing their best answer potentially can be devastating, which will likely allow other minions to continue pushing damage and the information download you get allows you to make more optimal plays to mitigate what they're holding which again leads to more damage.
Well then we see things differently. I doubt aggro DH wants to play this over an actual threat. Like Viper said , if you play this vs Control , its very likely the other 4-7 cards in the opponents hand can handle the situation, especially since you just spend 4 mana for a 4/3... Also this can be pretty clunky to play in aggro with other outcast cards, but we will see , maybe it sees play .
I would have to agree Star Student Stelina is very far from being a '1'. Gaining information from 3 cards that they're holding is huge, not to mention you get to reduce their hand size. This is what made Madame Lazul so good, it was the huge information gain you got from her ability. For Aggro, Star Student Stelina is even better because you can remove their best counter from hand. She is like a 3 or 4 dude.
I also rated star student very low because Glide is way better. It's a cheaper sprint that removes not 1 but 3+ cards from control/combo decks.
Yeah it's just a difference of opinion, majority said the same thing about Madame Lazul people grossly underestimated just how valuable seeing your opponents cards actually is. Arguably this benefits Aggro more than Control since you're pushing for a early end and trying to dance around opponent threats to do so. If we reworded the card and it said ''Reveal 3/4 of your opponents cards in hand and remove their best card to counter your board'' people would be losing their mind. Basically that is what it is. Am not saying this is some massive 4 rating, am merely pointing out that it's defiantly no 1 rating and that people thought similar about Madame until it saw decent game play and than it was like this is actually powerful.
Just thought I'd chime in and say I agree 100% with your introduction. I hope gonig forwards we will see many more powerful cards and many more nerfs as required. Good call - my number 1 card in the set was Goody Two-Shields...not especially flashy, but as soon as you think about the turn 4 it will lead into extremely reliably the card is IMO deceptively strong.
This card will be as strong as the "zooish", curvestone/tempo Pally will be strong in the future meta. It is for sure a super solid 3 drop, but it can only shine in a deck that is still only in our minds at the moment.
He has Potion of Illusion, Wave of Apathy, and Blessing of Authority as 1 star. Trash ratings enough said.
Who hurt you, friend?
Also, have fun playing Toni OTK in a format with Glide.
...and Illucia, and Unseen Saboteur, and Blatant Decoy....
The deck will be fine though I wouldn't play it probably and no one hurt me people are pretending his ratings are good and they are very flawed
To be honest, pretending is a way of life for this people you're talking about, so I perfectly understand why you are annoyed by stuff like this, but I'm pretty sure not everyone supporting OP is doing such a thing blindly. ;)
Yeah some of his ratings are probably flawed, like he said before 'I'm open to being wrong'.
But you're the only person here that just says that he's wrong and doesn't prove a point as to why he's wrong by giving actual feedback or critisisme. You're just being negative and that's it. If you'd know it that much better, then you can explain why without just putting down his ratings as trash.
A lot of proplayers have also said that glide is actually a trash card because of how outcast works, but they build it up with actual facts.
I usually don't care and watch them just for fun, but this time I will check some famous streamers ratings on the new cards and do some proper comparisons later here. :)
And of course, the most important thing is that I'll give my opinion about these streamers and 1xbenx1 set reviews. It's gonna be a lot of fun, that's for sure! XD
I think most of your ratings are spot on, you can clearly tell that you have very good game knowledge. There are just some ratings I don't agree with.
I just don't see spell damage shaman working anytime soon. To make it work they would need a lot more high tempo cards like pre-nerf 1 mana Spirit Claws. Everything they're trying to do is just too cute imo and therefore I don't think it will end up being good.
Manafeeder Panthara is not a great card imo because the condition of having to use your heropower in the same turn makes this very weak. On turn 2 its just a river crocolisk, and if you play this on turn 4, congratulations! You just played a +1/+2 stat upgrade on novice engineer while your opponent probably played an actual 4-drop.
Also claiming that mage hit a 'home run' seems optimistic to me. Again I don't see the whole spelldamage package working. Lab partner is a great card because its good even without the spelldamage, but to base an entire deck around spelldamage seems like a very bad idea to me as again to make it work you need high tempo cards, but all they have is cute things and most spelldmg minions are still mediocre at best.
As far as rogue goes, you said they got enough to finally distance themselves from galakrond. Well I don't think so. Even with all the new support I still don't think it's ready to be a deck on its own. Stealth minions usually have low health, and classes like warrior have no problem dealing with low health minions. Let's be honest, the rogue class card minions are pretty bad compared to say, most other classes. If a rogue deck without galakrond ends up working, if anything it will be completely carried by Secret Passage, and it definitely won't be because they have that many good minions.
Gibberling was rated a 3, but the streamers access to the cards early were breaking druid with this with turn 1 or 2 armies. This should be rated 4 at will probably be nerfed first week if not first few days.
Survival of the Fittest is definetely a 4. With pre-nerf innervate back and all the ramp, druid can play SoF consistently around turn 6/7 and the pay-off is HUGE. Anubisath Defenders can be dropped on the same turn with 7/9 stats, plenty of new cards to help druid survive until playin it too. This is getting nerfed to +3/+3 imo, lots of shenanigans with charge minions doin 20+ dmg from hand, the kind of cancer everyone hates.
Mindrender Illucia is also a 4 and will get nerfed. She doesnt just disrupt combo, shes good against aggro too; clear their board then play her, you force him to play a whole turn with slow priest cards then give iniciative back to you, thats practically gg. Forcing the opponent to waste a whole turn for 2 mana is insane, specially when you can get this for free from invokes.. the greatest cancer ever made.
Aside from those I more or less agree with your ratings, this is a high quality set for sure.
Not sure I agree with a lot of the 1s and i think a lot of other cards are pretty underrated. I love Raise Dead, I think lackey priest is going to be pretty good, I think Big Warrior at least looks pretty good, Big Paladin I'm a little more dubious about. (But I think people just build way too greedy with a lot of "big decks").
Professor Slate I don't think is a 1. Hunter can reasonably run Arcane Shot, Rapid Fire, Kill Command, Corrosive Breath even marked shot without building a deck around them necessarily (though maybe you want to, and I think Slate makes that deck better). I don't know if he goes into existing hunter decks, but the ability to turn literally any damaging spell into hard removal for a reasonably stated 3 drop is... just... good.
Thank you for taking the time to write this up. The main disagreements I would have is that I can't see Token DH as any worse than Tier 3. Ace Hunter Kreen is absolutely ridiculous with the Token set and he is so easy to combo with cards like Coordinated Strike, Trueaim Crescent, Command the Illidari, etc. that he really does wonders for the deck.
Also, I will say that Spell Damage Mage seems incredibly schizophrenic. You have cards that fit well into control like Combustion and Brain Freeze, but then you have Mozaki who seems to encourage a lot of cheap burn spells? I don't know what this deck is trying to do exactly, although maybe you've theorycrafted an interesting idea that I haven't thought of.
Gibberling was rated a 3, but the streamers access to the cards early were breaking druid with this with turn 1 or 2 armies. This should be rated 4 at will probably be nerfed first week if not first few days.
It will be solid, with a 5/4 draw 2 cards, aggro druid can return. Lots of good aggro deck can means that you can actually build around defeating aggro. I hope we get a more interesting meta.
Regarding Stelina - I wasn't aware Lazul was a particularly good card. She's fine, but I think Priest plays her more b/c of the fact that Priest doesn't have a lot else.
That said, I do think Stelina is an aggro card, I'm just not sure she's good there because of her stats. I also don't like the tension she creates between Double Jump - because I think you're running that to tutor your glides. But maybe it will work? But outside of possibly the Glide deck, I don't think she sees any play, which contributed to her lower score.
Regarding Gibberling - I thought putting him at 3 would be controversial because it was too high. At least I'm glad to see other people think it's a great card.
Finally, I agree that the spell damage mage looks schizophrenic...but that's sort of the appeal for me. It has a lot of flexible options, and I think that benefits it in the long run. Ditto with spell damage shaman.
I don't think anyone is thanking him for his absolute accuracy but rather the effort to prepare and share his opinions with us for consideration.
Thanks Ben.
I would have to agree Star Student Stelina is very far from being a '1'. Gaining information from 3 cards that they're holding is huge, not to mention you get to reduce their hand size. This is what made Madame Lazul so good, it was the huge information gain you got from her ability. For Aggro, Star Student Stelina is even better because you can remove their best counter from hand. She is like a 3 or 4 dude.
It depends if you see a World where Control DeamonHunter is a viable (at least tier 2 ) deck.
If not it doesnt matter if the card by itself is better than Madame Lazul. If DH is still a tempo/aggro class you dont play a gameplan interrupting card with questionable effect. You either play lots of stats, carddraw or removal. No way an aggrodeck can spend 4 mana do nothing immediate to the board/face.
I never said anything about Control i only mentioned Aggro. Removing their best answer potentially can be devastating, which will likely allow other minions to continue pushing damage and the information download you get allows you to make more optimal plays to mitigate what they're holding which again leads to more damage.
Well then we see things differently. I doubt aggro DH wants to play this over an actual threat. Like Viper said , if you play this vs Control , its very likely the other 4-7 cards in the opponents hand can handle the situation, especially since you just spend 4 mana for a 4/3... Also this can be pretty clunky to play in aggro with other outcast cards, but we will see , maybe it sees play .
I also rated star student very low because Glide is way better. It's a cheaper sprint that removes not 1 but 3+ cards from control/combo decks.
Yeah it's just a difference of opinion, majority said the same thing about Madame Lazul people grossly underestimated just how valuable seeing your opponents cards actually is. Arguably this benefits Aggro more than Control since you're pushing for a early end and trying to dance around opponent threats to do so. If we reworded the card and it said ''Reveal 3/4 of your opponents cards in hand and remove their best card to counter your board'' people would be losing their mind. Basically that is what it is. Am not saying this is some massive 4 rating, am merely pointing out that it's defiantly no 1 rating and that people thought similar about Madame until it saw decent game play and than it was like this is actually powerful.
This card will be as strong as the "zooish", curvestone/tempo Pally will be strong in the future meta. It is for sure a super solid 3 drop, but it can only shine in a deck that is still only in our minds at the moment.
Thats why i mentioned Control... Priest can afford to play understated cards since the class is flooded with comeback mechanisms (aoe) and healing.
To be honest, pretending is a way of life for this people you're talking about, so I perfectly understand why you are annoyed by stuff like this, but I'm pretty sure not everyone supporting OP is doing such a thing blindly. ;)
I usually don't care and watch them just for fun, but this time I will check some famous streamers ratings on the new cards and do some proper comparisons later here. :)
And of course, the most important thing is that I'll give my opinion about these streamers and 1xbenx1 set reviews. It's gonna be a lot of fun, that's for sure! XD
I think most of your ratings are spot on, you can clearly tell that you have very good game knowledge. There are just some ratings I don't agree with.
I just don't see spell damage shaman working anytime soon. To make it work they would need a lot more high tempo cards like pre-nerf 1 mana Spirit Claws. Everything they're trying to do is just too cute imo and therefore I don't think it will end up being good.
Manafeeder Panthara is not a great card imo because the condition of having to use your heropower in the same turn makes this very weak. On turn 2 its just a river crocolisk, and if you play this on turn 4, congratulations! You just played a +1/+2 stat upgrade on novice engineer while your opponent probably played an actual 4-drop.
Also claiming that mage hit a 'home run' seems optimistic to me. Again I don't see the whole spelldamage package working. Lab partner is a great card because its good even without the spelldamage, but to base an entire deck around spelldamage seems like a very bad idea to me as again to make it work you need high tempo cards, but all they have is cute things and most spelldmg minions are still mediocre at best.
As far as rogue goes, you said they got enough to finally distance themselves from galakrond. Well I don't think so. Even with all the new support I still don't think it's ready to be a deck on its own. Stealth minions usually have low health, and classes like warrior have no problem dealing with low health minions. Let's be honest, the rogue class card minions are pretty bad compared to say, most other classes. If a rogue deck without galakrond ends up working, if anything it will be completely carried by Secret Passage, and it definitely won't be because they have that many good minions.
Gibberling was rated a 3, but the streamers access to the cards early were breaking druid with this with turn 1 or 2 armies. This should be rated 4 at will probably be nerfed first week if not first few days.
Survival of the Fittest is definetely a 4. With pre-nerf innervate back and all the ramp, druid can play SoF consistently around turn 6/7 and the pay-off is HUGE. Anubisath Defenders can be dropped on the same turn with 7/9 stats, plenty of new cards to help druid survive until playin it too. This is getting nerfed to +3/+3 imo, lots of shenanigans with charge minions doin 20+ dmg from hand, the kind of cancer everyone hates.
Mindrender Illucia is also a 4 and will get nerfed. She doesnt just disrupt combo, shes good against aggro too; clear their board then play her, you force him to play a whole turn with slow priest cards then give iniciative back to you, thats practically gg. Forcing the opponent to waste a whole turn for 2 mana is insane, specially when you can get this for free from invokes.. the greatest cancer ever made.
Aside from those I more or less agree with your ratings, this is a high quality set for sure.
Not sure I agree with a lot of the 1s and i think a lot of other cards are pretty underrated. I love Raise Dead, I think lackey priest is going to be pretty good, I think Big Warrior at least looks pretty good, Big Paladin I'm a little more dubious about. (But I think people just build way too greedy with a lot of "big decks").
Professor Slate I don't think is a 1. Hunter can reasonably run Arcane Shot, Rapid Fire, Kill Command, Corrosive Breath even marked shot without building a deck around them necessarily (though maybe you want to, and I think Slate makes that deck better). I don't know if he goes into existing hunter decks, but the ability to turn literally any damaging spell into hard removal for a reasonably stated 3 drop is... just... good.
Thank you for taking the time to write this up. The main disagreements I would have is that I can't see Token DH as any worse than Tier 3. Ace Hunter Kreen is absolutely ridiculous with the Token set and he is so easy to combo with cards like Coordinated Strike, Trueaim Crescent, Command the Illidari, etc. that he really does wonders for the deck.
Also, I will say that Spell Damage Mage seems incredibly schizophrenic. You have cards that fit well into control like Combustion and Brain Freeze, but then you have Mozaki who seems to encourage a lot of cheap burn spells? I don't know what this deck is trying to do exactly, although maybe you've theorycrafted an interesting idea that I haven't thought of.
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Here are my predictions in The Exhaustive Ashes of Outlands Card Preview.
It will be solid, with a 5/4 draw 2 cards, aggro druid can return. Lots of good aggro deck can means that you can actually build around defeating aggro. I hope we get a more interesting meta.
This is me, Twitch merger broke my account: https://www.hearthpwn.com/members/Alkan53
Thank you all for the feedback.
Regarding Stelina - I wasn't aware Lazul was a particularly good card. She's fine, but I think Priest plays her more b/c of the fact that Priest doesn't have a lot else.
That said, I do think Stelina is an aggro card, I'm just not sure she's good there because of her stats. I also don't like the tension she creates between Double Jump - because I think you're running that to tutor your glides. But maybe it will work? But outside of possibly the Glide deck, I don't think she sees any play, which contributed to her lower score.
Regarding Gibberling - I thought putting him at 3 would be controversial because it was too high. At least I'm glad to see other people think it's a great card.
Finally, I agree that the spell damage mage looks schizophrenic...but that's sort of the appeal for me. It has a lot of flexible options, and I think that benefits it in the long run. Ditto with spell damage shaman.