Hello everyone, as you may already noticed i would like to discuss about Zephrys the Great. This is by far my favorite all times card and i play almost only highlander decks because of it. I have played ton of games and i have noticed that sometimes it recommends very bad choices.
Last game i was playing highlander malygos hunter vs control warrior. I put 1 mana malygos, 1 mana faceless manipulator on empty board on turn 10 and play Zephrys hoping to get some magic burst. Warrior was 30hp+15 armor. But instead i get 5 mana shitty weapon 3/4 , edwin and soul of the forest (vs warrior). C'mon .... please.... I have 10 spell damage on board and you give me these options?
This is just one example, i have many to tell you.
Last thing i want to say, most of the times one card is almost the same with another one. I would like to see something else in that spot.
You have to force Zephyrs hand to get a correct pick. If you want a Moonfire lethal with +10 spell damage, you would need to have 0 mana left and the Warrior would have to be at 11 total health. The more you play with Zephyrs, the more you learn the nuances of the algorithm.
What did you exactly expect from Zephyrs? He didn't see any possibility for lethal, so he won't give you burst spells.
For clarification: You should have an exact idea which card you want from Zephyrs. Then you have to manage Zephrys to do for you by operating you mana, your cards and maybe auch the HP of your opponent. Example: In T10 your opponent has 12 HP and you have one fireball in your hand. Playing Zephrys in this situation will not give you an extra fireball. But if you play your fireball first, your opponent has now 6 HP and then you play Zephrys, he will give you an extra fireball.
Maly+Faceless is a win-condition, and not really a tempo play - you only play the combo when you can also play a bunch of burn damage from hand on the same turn. Apparently, the OP didn't have any playable burn damage at all, but played the combo anyway. I suspect Zephrys didn't offer any burn damage because there simply isn't any burn damage that would have helped the OP win the game - the opponent was at 45 total Health. In general, it's best to hold off playing a win condition until it can actually contribute to winning the game, rather than simply playing it to board for tempo.
All things considered, there seem to be lots of misplays, rather than "not so great" offerings from Zephrys . . .
I had a similar situation playing wild. I was expecting Zephyris to give me Platebreaker. But he didn't. Definitely, he must be coded again for the perfect wish.
I had a similar situation playing wild. I was expecting Zephyris to give me Platebreaker. But he didn't. Definitely, he must be coded again for the perfect wish.
Platebreaker is not part of the Classic or Basic card sets and so has never been able to be offered by Zephrys. It gave you the perfect answer within the restrictions set upon it from the start.
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Yeah the pool of cards seem really narrow. It usually gives you AOE when u r at 10 mana aginst big board, but nothing amazing around 5 mana when you face aggro. It never gives you good healing (well there is not many good healing cards now) and when you place him when you need card draw or you face Tickatus and you need more cards, it gives you complete crap like Tyrion.
On the other side if you face Mage burning you down with spells, it gives him always Fireball to finish you off...
Yeah the pool of cards seem really narrow. It usually gives you AOE when u r at 10 mana aginst big board, but nothing amazing around 5 mana when you face aggro. It never gives you good healing (well there is not many good healing cards now) and when you place him when you need card draw or you face Tickatus and you need more cards, it gives you complete crap like Tyrion.
On the other side if you face Mage burning you down with spells, it gives him always Fireball to finish you off...
The card is fine you’re just using it wrong. Your opponents seem to be using it right.
He can only choose from the classic and basic set so there’s not a lot he can do after Tickatus empties your deck other than give you high value or high tempo plays. If you get your opponent down to 6hp it will ALLWAYS offer a fireball if you have 4 mana remaining. If they are on 8 and have nothing on board he will offer you an Avenging Wrath. If your hero has attack damage then he can offer a weapon (such as doomhammer) for lethal.
If you want to use him optimally then I’d suggest trying to find an image listing all of the options he can offer divided into mana cost and/or card type (aoe, removal, tempo, burst, weapons, draw) learn it, and think about how you what situations you could use the cards and how you could manipulate Zeph to give you them when you need them.
Of all of the Discover cards in the game Zeph is the last to get salty over.
Same, Zeph, unless in very obvious situations, won't be accurate. I was playing against a libram paladin and desperately needed a mass dispell to basically autowin the game. However, despite narrowing my mana down to 4, I was not offered that card, and lost the game eventually, to my emoting opponent's delight. I don't know if he knew he dodged the bullet on Zeph or was completely clueless how he could be left without librams for the rest of the game, but it was really frustrating for me nonetheless.
Same, Zeph, unless in very obvious situations, won't be accurate. I was playing against a libram paladin and desperately needed a mass dispell to basically autowin the game. However, despite narrowing my mana down to 4, I was not offered that card, and lost the game eventually, to my emoting opponent's delight. I don't know if he knew he dodged the bullet on Zeph or was completely clueless how he could be left without librams for the rest of the game, but it was really frustrating for me nonetheless.
Zephrys knows that a minion has dearhrattle, but not what the deathrattle is. "Avoid returning librams to your opponent's hand" isn't accounted for in the algorithm.
There are, as mentioned above, charts for what the hierarchy of Zeph "solutions" is. Lethal first, then clearing threats. Healing if you're too low. Tempo plays of there isn't any threat. Denying death rattles is a low priority y
Remember, it isn't an AI. It's an algorithm which will give consistent results. You just need to understand what they are.
I think Zeph does know what the deathrattle is, but returning a libram buff to your hand is not considered a 'dangerous' deathrattle to warrant offering some sort of silence. It could potentially offer it for a Sylvanas or the like though...
I had 9 damage from the 6 minions who could attack and 3 from the weapon I just equipped. i spent mana to have exactly 4 for Mass Dispel with 4!! taunt minions, 3 deathrattles and an end of turn effect on the opponent's side. My board was full and he offers Sap, Argent Protector and Sea Giant.
@SoundwaveVR what deck were you running in those screenshots? I’ve been playing highlander Rogue for a while but your list looks interesting if you’re okay with sharing it.
Zephyrs is notriously awful vs deathrattles, getting a poly/silence can often be the difference between win or loss but the bastard just seems to have a blind spot towards them.
@SoundwaveVR what deck were you running in those screenshots? I’ve been playing highlander Rogue for a while but your list looks interesting if you’re okay with sharing it.
Here you go
### Highlander # Class: Rogue # Format: Standard # Year of the Phoenix # # 1x (0) Backstab # 1x (0) Shadowstep # 1x (1) Armor Vendor # 1x (1) Bazaar Burglary # 1x (1) Blackjack Stunner # 1x (1) Dragon's Hoard # 1x (1) Pharaoh Cat # 1x (1) Pilfer # 1x (1) Secret Passage # 1x (1) Wand Thief # 1x (2) Ambush # 1x (2) Clever Disguise # 1x (2) Dirty Tricks # 1x (2) Eviscerate # 1x (2) Plagiarize # 1x (2) Sap # 1x (2) Shadowjeweler Hanar # 1x (2) Shenanigans # 1x (2) Swindle # 1x (2) Tenwu of the Red Smoke # 1x (2) Zephrys the Great # 1x (3) EVIL Miscreant # 1x (4) Hench-Clan Burglar # 1x (4) Vendetta # 1x (5) Bazaar Mugger # 1x (5) Jandice Barov # 1x (5) Ogremancer # 1x (6) Flik Skyshiv # 1x (7) Siamat # 1x (9) Dragonqueen Alexstrasza # AAECAaIHHrQB7QLNA4gHj5cDkJcDqJgD/poD/KMDhKcD9acDp6gDqqgDragDt64Dwa4DkbEDzLkDzrkD0LkD+8QDqssDpNED2dED5dMDjtQD590Dw+EDg+QDkuQDAAA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
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Hello everyone, as you may already noticed i would like to discuss about Zephrys the Great. This is by far my favorite all times card and i play almost only highlander decks because of it. I have played ton of games and i have noticed that sometimes it recommends very bad choices.
Last game i was playing highlander malygos hunter vs control warrior. I put 1 mana malygos, 1 mana faceless manipulator on empty board on turn 10 and play Zephrys hoping to get some magic burst. Warrior was 30hp+15 armor. But instead i get 5 mana shitty weapon 3/4 , edwin and soul of the forest (vs warrior). C'mon .... please.... I have 10 spell damage on board and you give me these options?
This is just one example, i have many to tell you.
Last thing i want to say, most of the times one card is almost the same with another one. I would like to see something else in that spot.
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."
Zephrys can read spell damage but he generally won't prioritise burst if it isn't lethal.
Exactly what MoonUnit said.
You have to force Zephyrs hand to get a correct pick. If you want a Moonfire lethal with +10 spell damage, you would need to have 0 mana left and the Warrior would have to be at 11 total health. The more you play with Zephyrs, the more you learn the nuances of the algorithm.
What did you exactly expect from Zephyrs? He didn't see any possibility for lethal, so he won't give you burst spells.
For clarification: You should have an exact idea which card you want from Zephyrs. Then you have to manage Zephrys to do for you by operating you mana, your cards and maybe auch the HP of your opponent.
Example: In T10 your opponent has 12 HP and you have one fireball in your hand. Playing Zephrys in this situation will not give you an extra fireball. But if you play your fireball first, your opponent has now 6 HP and then you play Zephrys, he will give you an extra fireball.
Hmmm . . .
Maly+Faceless is a win-condition, and not really a tempo play - you only play the combo when you can also play a bunch of burn damage from hand on the same turn. Apparently, the OP didn't have any playable burn damage at all, but played the combo anyway. I suspect Zephrys didn't offer any burn damage because there simply isn't any burn damage that would have helped the OP win the game - the opponent was at 45 total Health. In general, it's best to hold off playing a win condition until it can actually contribute to winning the game, rather than simply playing it to board for tempo.
All things considered, there seem to be lots of misplays, rather than "not so great" offerings from Zephrys . . .
I had a similar situation playing wild. I was expecting Zephyris to give me Platebreaker. But he didn't. Definitely, he must be coded again for the perfect wish.
Platebreaker is not part of the Classic or Basic card sets and so has never been able to be offered by Zephrys. It gave you the perfect answer within the restrictions set upon it from the start.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
Yeah the pool of cards seem really narrow. It usually gives you AOE when u r at 10 mana aginst big board, but nothing amazing around 5 mana when you face aggro. It never gives you good healing (well there is not many good healing cards now) and when you place him when you need card draw or you face Tickatus and you need more cards, it gives you complete crap like Tyrion.
On the other side if you face Mage burning you down with spells, it gives him always Fireball to finish you off...
Would be nice if the perfect options were always two relevant cards and shadowstep to reroll them.
The card is fine you’re just using it wrong. Your opponents seem to be using it right.
He can only choose from the classic and basic set so there’s not a lot he can do after Tickatus empties your deck other than give you high value or high tempo plays. If you get your opponent down to 6hp it will ALLWAYS offer a fireball if you have 4 mana remaining. If they are on 8 and have nothing on board he will offer you an Avenging Wrath. If your hero has attack damage then he can offer a weapon (such as doomhammer) for lethal.
If you want to use him optimally then I’d suggest trying to find an image listing all of the options he can offer divided into mana cost and/or card type (aoe, removal, tempo, burst, weapons, draw) learn it, and think about how you what situations you could use the cards and how you could manipulate Zeph to give you them when you need them.
Of all of the Discover cards in the game Zeph is the last to get salty over.
Same, Zeph, unless in very obvious situations, won't be accurate. I was playing against a libram paladin and desperately needed a mass dispell to basically autowin the game. However, despite narrowing my mana down to 4, I was not offered that card, and lost the game eventually, to my emoting opponent's delight. I don't know if he knew he dodged the bullet on Zeph or was completely clueless how he could be left without librams for the rest of the game, but it was really frustrating for me nonetheless.
Zephrys knows that a minion has dearhrattle, but not what the deathrattle is. "Avoid returning librams to your opponent's hand" isn't accounted for in the algorithm.
There are, as mentioned above, charts for what the hierarchy of Zeph "solutions" is. Lethal first, then clearing threats. Healing if you're too low. Tempo plays of there isn't any threat. Denying death rattles is a low priority y
Remember, it isn't an AI. It's an algorithm which will give consistent results. You just need to understand what they are.
I think Zeph does know what the deathrattle is, but returning a libram buff to your hand is not considered a 'dangerous' deathrattle to warrant offering some sort of silence. It could potentially offer it for a Sylvanas or the like though...
Sylvanas is no part of the classic set, so Zephrys will never offer Sylvanas.
I meant offer silence against a Sylvanas or the like
Zephrys the Dolt
I had 9 damage from the 6 minions who could attack and 3 from the weapon I just equipped. i spent mana to have exactly 4 for Mass Dispel with 4!! taunt minions, 3 deathrattles and an end of turn effect on the opponent's side. My board was full and he offers Sap, Argent Protector and Sea Giant.
Good job, Zephrys!
@SoundwaveVR what deck were you running in those screenshots? I’ve been playing highlander Rogue for a while but your list looks interesting if you’re okay with sharing it.
Zephyrs is notriously awful vs deathrattles, getting a poly/silence can often be the difference between win or loss but the bastard just seems to have a blind spot towards them.
He rarely fails to offer Earth Shock, but he seems to be allergic to Silence, and even more to Mass Dispel...
Here you go
### Highlander
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Phoenix
#
# 1x (0) Backstab
# 1x (0) Shadowstep
# 1x (1) Armor Vendor
# 1x (1) Bazaar Burglary
# 1x (1) Blackjack Stunner
# 1x (1) Dragon's Hoard
# 1x (1) Pharaoh Cat
# 1x (1) Pilfer
# 1x (1) Secret Passage
# 1x (1) Wand Thief
# 1x (2) Ambush
# 1x (2) Clever Disguise
# 1x (2) Dirty Tricks
# 1x (2) Eviscerate
# 1x (2) Plagiarize
# 1x (2) Sap
# 1x (2) Shadowjeweler Hanar
# 1x (2) Shenanigans
# 1x (2) Swindle
# 1x (2) Tenwu of the Red Smoke
# 1x (2) Zephrys the Great
# 1x (3) EVIL Miscreant
# 1x (4) Hench-Clan Burglar
# 1x (4) Vendetta
# 1x (5) Bazaar Mugger
# 1x (5) Jandice Barov
# 1x (5) Ogremancer
# 1x (6) Flik Skyshiv
# 1x (7) Siamat
# 1x (9) Dragonqueen Alexstrasza
#
AAECAaIHHrQB7QLNA4gHj5cDkJcDqJgD/poD/KMDhKcD9acDp6gDqqgDragDt64Dwa4DkbEDzLkDzrkD0LkD+8QDqssDpNED2dED5dMDjtQD590Dw+EDg+QDkuQDAAA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone