it's good to see that you're not personally facing many quest decks, but i'll have to refer to the HSReplay class winrates to illustrate a broader spectrum of the overall meta. As you can see, Quest Druid and Quest DH are topping out at over 55% winrate with Quest Shaman and Combo mage trailing behind them. Warlock on the other hand is sitting at the very bottom at a 36.3%, which is pretty abysmal and frankly shocking considering that not even DK is struggling that badly despite having the smallest card pool by far. My assumption is that Implock would not stand a chance if you were to run into the main questline decks that are dominating the meta, especially if they were being piloted properly.
You know, there's something about your Order in the Court assessment that just strikes me as strange. i think i disagree fundamentally in that you're implying it's a bad thing to "give away" that Cariel will be in your hand on curve. A Paladin player would always want Carole in hand by turn 8, so if you have a way to dictate that and ensure she's not in the bottom of the deck, that's clearly a big deal. The opponent should also assume that a paladin player has Cariel in hand by turn 8 regardless of whether they play Order in the Court or not. There's a lot of contexts where the text might as well translate to "Draw the best legendary card in your deck"
the fact blazing evolution lets you discover is just stupid
No, the fact that Gnoll counts as a 10 mana minion even if it is played for 1 is stupid. It (and similar cards) should retain their casting cost and evolve accordingly
Blazing evolution isn't fantastic if you evolve a 2 drop into a 3
The deck would be pretty bad if that was the case but i think it’s perfectly fine for certain decks to die (Deathrattle Rogue)
Why did they make this a dual-type demon? It conflicts with Caria and conflicts with Sigil of Reckoning. But im sure Big DH is gonna get a ton of new tools next rotation?? I guess??
Ive been playing standard for years, through the release of DH, the Galakrond Shaman fiasco, that one Topsy Turvy Priest deck during Boomsday, and when Switcheroo used to swap minions’ attack as well as health, among many others. But i still don’t think i have ever seen something as ridiculous as a turn 2 11/11 with taunt. They essentially turned standard into wild.
To be honest i might need a refresher on what qualifies as control in this game nowadays. If i were playing a deck that starts making big board based plays starting at turn 5 plus (Evolve Shaman, Big Demon Hunter, Thief Rogue to a certain extent), what would be the best term to define those sort of strategies? I dont see them as control to any extent, but i dont know if midrange would be the word as they don’t exactly have the capability to play aggressively
Appreciate some good discourse here, but i do disagree with some of your points.
To begin with, it’s important to note that none of these decks gained the popularity that they have now by having 50% win rates. They got that spotlight by being much stronger than that when piloted correctly, which leads to many unskilled players netdecking them and bringing the overall winrate down.
Secondly, i don’t believe that aggro decks shutting down games that early is fair either (though it’s not unlikely to see a good aggro player secure a win by turn 5 ). But when you look at an aggro deck’s game plan and consider counters, there’s various options such as clearing boards, out-healing, swinging the board in your favor mid game, depleting their resources etc. I mean if you’re telling me that a Frost DK or an OTK Warlock is being hard countered by an Aggro Druid, i’d say it’s probably because they’re refusing to run any of the board clears they have available as opposed to more combo pieces. I don’t think that OTK/combo decks should be eliminated outright, but if they were a bit less efficient then maybe there wouldn’t be at least 4 different variations of them on ladder.
Lastly, as i included in my original post that was conveniently cut out of your quote, i understand the logic behind cutting out fatigue/attrition type strategies out of the game and i wont complain about them being a thing of the past. But if reaching turn 10 is getting phased out to begin with, then why are 9 or 10 cost cards even being printed any longer? Just to get cheated out early or for druids to ramp up to?
Am i the only one that’s had enough of these uncounterable insane damage from hand OTK-style decks that seem to be so prevalent on ladder at the moment? Quest DH was thankfully knocked out of the running but i’m seeing four main offenders in diamond as of late:
1. Arcane Bolt Mage
2. Frost DK
3. Phylactery Warlock
4. Shockspitter Hunter (to a lesser extent after nerfs)
The mage list reminds me of Shockspitter Hunter in that it plays like a semi-aggro deck with lots of early board presence and then all of a sudden by turn 7 or 8 they’ve got a hand full of cheap massive damage to smite down your entire health pool. Facing both of the decks puts you in a situation where you’re fighting for board control and racing against a very short clock at the same time, which at the risk of sounding controversial i’m going to classify as an unpleasant experience.
On the other hand the Frost lists as well as phylactery lists have this unbelievable ability to stall and discount their combo pieces to the point where once again, you are being cut down from damn near full or full HP by turn 7 with nothing to do except sit there and watch them pull more face damage out of thin air. The new warlock DR legendary to me is particularly ridiculous as it multiplies the damage from the mines expotentially, as if the combo wasn’t lethal enough as it is.
My problem here isn’t that OTK/combo decks are a thing, my issue is the fact that they can routinely close out entire games by turn 7 or 8. I mean you can’t even throw something like Mutanus or Theotar out to disrupt their hand because they hit lethal so early on. Is it too antiquated to think that a massive OTK should pop off maybe closer to, oh i don’t know, turn 10 perhaps??? (not fatigue)
There’s a multitude of legendaries in this game with no reason to run them but were also never competitive/useless from day one. You had your fun, now take your 400 dust and craft another broken deck
1
it's good to see that you're not personally facing many quest decks, but i'll have to refer to the HSReplay class winrates to illustrate a broader spectrum of the overall meta. As you can see, Quest Druid and Quest DH are topping out at over 55% winrate with Quest Shaman and Combo mage trailing behind them. Warlock on the other hand is sitting at the very bottom at a 36.3%, which is pretty abysmal and frankly shocking considering that not even DK is struggling that badly despite having the smallest card pool by far. My assumption is that Implock would not stand a chance if you were to run into the main questline decks that are dominating the meta, especially if they were being piloted properly.
.
0
You know, there's something about your Order in the Court assessment that just strikes me as strange. i think i disagree fundamentally in that you're implying it's a bad thing to "give away" that Cariel will be in your hand on curve. A Paladin player would always want Carole in hand by turn 8, so if you have a way to dictate that and ensure she's not in the bottom of the deck, that's clearly a big deal. The opponent should also assume that a paladin player has Cariel in hand by turn 8 regardless of whether they play Order in the Court or not. There's a lot of contexts where the text might as well translate to "Draw the best legendary card in your deck"
0
The deck would be pretty bad if that was the case but i think it’s perfectly fine for certain decks to die (Deathrattle Rogue)
0
There wouldn’t be any point. Goldshire Gnoll is part of United in Stormwind so by the time they would print such a card it would rotate out
0
Why did they make this a dual-type demon? It conflicts with Caria and conflicts with Sigil of Reckoning. But im sure Big DH is gonna get a ton of new tools next rotation?? I guess??
4
Ive been playing standard for years, through the release of DH, the Galakrond Shaman fiasco, that one Topsy Turvy Priest deck during Boomsday, and when Switcheroo used to swap minions’ attack as well as health, among many others. But i still don’t think i have ever seen something as ridiculous as a turn 2 11/11 with taunt. They essentially turned standard into wild.
1
To be honest i might need a refresher on what qualifies as control in this game nowadays. If i were playing a deck that starts making big board based plays starting at turn 5 plus (Evolve Shaman, Big Demon Hunter, Thief Rogue to a certain extent), what would be the best term to define those sort of strategies? I dont see them as control to any extent, but i dont know if midrange would be the word as they don’t exactly have the capability to play aggressively
0
Can’t even try it until Caria Felsoul rotates out
0
Appreciate some good discourse here, but i do disagree with some of your points.
To begin with, it’s important to note that none of these decks gained the popularity that they have now by having 50% win rates. They got that spotlight by being much stronger than that when piloted correctly, which leads to many unskilled players netdecking them and bringing the overall winrate down.
Secondly, i don’t believe that aggro decks shutting down games that early is fair either (though it’s not unlikely to see a good aggro player secure a win by turn 5 ). But when you look at an aggro deck’s game plan and consider counters, there’s various options such as clearing boards, out-healing, swinging the board in your favor mid game, depleting their resources etc. I mean if you’re telling me that a Frost DK or an OTK Warlock is being hard countered by an Aggro Druid, i’d say it’s probably because they’re refusing to run any of the board clears they have available as opposed to more combo pieces. I don’t think that OTK/combo decks should be eliminated outright, but if they were a bit less efficient then maybe there wouldn’t be at least 4 different variations of them on ladder.
Lastly, as i included in my original post that was conveniently cut out of your quote, i understand the logic behind cutting out fatigue/attrition type strategies out of the game and i wont complain about them being a thing of the past. But if reaching turn 10 is getting phased out to begin with, then why are 9 or 10 cost cards even being printed any longer? Just to get cheated out early or for druids to ramp up to?
1
Am i the only one that’s had enough of these uncounterable insane damage from hand OTK-style decks that seem to be so prevalent on ladder at the moment? Quest DH was thankfully knocked out of the running but i’m seeing four main offenders in diamond as of late:
1. Arcane Bolt Mage
2. Frost DK
3. Phylactery Warlock
4. Shockspitter Hunter (to a lesser extent after nerfs)
The mage list reminds me of Shockspitter Hunter in that it plays like a semi-aggro deck with lots of early board presence and then all of a sudden by turn 7 or 8 they’ve got a hand full of cheap massive damage to smite down your entire health pool. Facing both of the decks puts you in a situation where you’re fighting for board control and racing against a very short clock at the same time, which at the risk of sounding controversial i’m going to classify as an unpleasant experience.
On the other hand the Frost lists as well as phylactery lists have this unbelievable ability to stall and discount their combo pieces to the point where once again, you are being cut down from damn near full or full HP by turn 7 with nothing to do except sit there and watch them pull more face damage out of thin air. The new warlock DR legendary to me is particularly ridiculous as it multiplies the damage from the mines expotentially, as if the combo wasn’t lethal enough as it is.
My problem here isn’t that OTK/combo decks are a thing, my issue is the fact that they can routinely close out entire games by turn 7 or 8. I mean you can’t even throw something like Mutanus or Theotar out to disrupt their hand because they hit lethal so early on. Is it too antiquated to think that a massive OTK should pop off maybe closer to, oh i don’t know, turn 10 perhaps??? (not fatigue)
0
So what’s the actual most busted deck for easy wins here? Just need the 3 wins for the DK skin
11
Looks like they’re locking a new Death Knight skin behind a requirement to win (not play) 3 games of this brawl. New low for the devs this time around
2
Ive tried to make him work. Not enough minions to make him worth it. The more minions you draw before him the more dead the card is
1
So true. Wait until rotation and watch these cards get their nerfs reverted in short order. Just to make anyone who dusted astalor feel extra stupid
3
There’s a multitude of legendaries in this game with no reason to run them but were also never competitive/useless from day one. You had your fun, now take your 400 dust and craft another broken deck