Would someone kindly explain to me why it was okay to nerf Quest Rogue but not Shudderwock Shaman (or more commonly known as elemental shaman in metastats)?
The similarities between the two decks are as follows:
1. They both shut down similar archetypes completely and it's almost an instant loss when you match up against one. 2. They are both not interactive decks and have no counters besides aggro decks. The loss of dirty rat in the standard format means it can't be teched against. 3. They both boast similar win rates with the highest being 55% (refer to the above links).
So, why does blizzard deem quest rogue as a problem but shudderwock as acceptable. Why is it okay to have decks that go infinite damage and have no counters? The thing that makes shudderwock so much more obnoxious is the wait time (which has been addressed and is significantly better) as well as the fact that they are able to play their combo pieces as opposed to holding on to them. This gives them more survivability and shaman already has some really good board clears that are able to deal with mid-range and control decks but not aggro (due to the loss of maelstorm portal).
This may seem like whining to some, and I apologize if that is the case. I Just don't understand blizzards logic...
I don't really consider the 2 to be the same in play style. Shaman has to draw this card and a few others to pull off a combo. Similar to other combo decks such as Maly Druid.
Quest rouge plays quest. Play a cheap minion. Bounce minion. Games over.
How exactly do you beat them when you are playing control? Unless you are cubelock or you are control lock (using Rin). It's almost impossible with the existing control decks (priest, mage, druid, warrior). It's a really awful match up.
Priest might have a chance if they draw well but they revolve around drawing their combo pieces too but they don't have hex to deal with minions.
The overall winrate doesn't tell you anything about the specific winrate. So my guess is that the shudderwock deck is not as polarizing as quest rogue. Meaning that the winrates are not 80/20 and 20/80 for favored or unfavored matchups, but closer to even (maybe 65/35).
But if shudderwock decks are rising in numbers again, we'll see whether it also needs a nerf (at present I do not think it does).
I don't really consider the 2 to be the same in play style. Shaman has to draw this card and a few others to pull off a combo. Similar to other combo decks such as Maly Druid.
Quest rouge plays quest. Play a cheap minion. Bounce minion. Games over.
Seem a little different in play style?
The playstyle is not the issue though. They both shut down an entire archtype and they both play with themselves i.e. there is no counter besides playing aggro.
If you are talking about similarity in playstyle then it is somewhat similar to:
Play your minions for your quest/combo. Play win all against control card.
Quest is finished way earlier than Shudderwock. So Controldecks have way more time to pressuer the opponent and finish them off before the fiesta begins.
QR had a way bigger win rate than shudderwock at legend(mostly due to people whoring cube/control lock there). The decks aren't really as similar as you're making it sound either. Shudderwock can still be beaten by control decks like warlock and priest if they manage to draw their win conditions faster, and is only really auto win against fatigue decks like Odd Warrior, whereas QR is literally a deck that beats any slow deck almost EVERY SINGLE TIME and loses to aggro just as often.
The overall winrate doesn't tell you anything about the specific winrate. So my guess is that the shudderwock deck is not as polarizing as quest rogue. Meaning that the winrates are not 80/20 and 20/80 for favored or unfavored matchups, but closer to even (maybe 65/35).
But if shudderwock decks are rising in numbers again, we'll see whether it also needs a nerf (at present I do not think it does).
You are right. The overall win rate doesn't tell you about whether the deck is polarizing or not.
How is it any different from control priest with alex, mindblast and DK heropower? Its acceptable that combo decks are favoured against control but not if they can assemble it before the control deck has any chance to put on pressure. Quest rogue can assemble its combo on like T5 pretty easily but shuddy shaman and control priest not until 8/9 (with perfect draw).
Quest rogue is opressive to control decks, shudderwock decks can easily be beat because they have to draw 30 combo pieces and play them, and have luck with the order of the shudderwock. The quest is completed fairly quickly, even with meh draws
How is it any different from control priest with alex, mindblast and DK heropower? Its acceptable that combo decks are favoured against control but not if they can assemble it before the control deck has any chance to put on pressure. Quest rogue can assemble its combo on like T5 pretty easily but shuddy shaman and control priest not until 8/9 (with perfect draw).
I don't think mind blast control priest is good comparison example. If you have enough heal, you will counter priest as a control deck. There is no real escape from Shudderwock grasp other than wrong battlecry order.
I think the amount of people shrugging off Shudderwock shaman as a threat is telling. We must have a bunch of aggro players in our midst because let me tell you. Big mage, mind blast priest, control warrior and control warlock are all helpless when the shudderwock train starts rolling. And it's very easy to get rolling when your opponent isn't threatening lethal every turn. Rage is sitting in top 20 legend playing shudderwock right now. I love the deck, but it does exactly what quest rogue does to control just like op said.
I think the amount off people shrugging of Shudderwock shaman as a threat is telling. We must have a bunch of aggro players in our midst because let me tell you. Big mage, mind blast priest, control warrior and control warlock are all helpless when the shudderwock train starts rolling. And it's very easy to get rolling when your opponent isn't threatening lethal every turn. Rage is sitting in top 20 legend playing shudderwock right now. I love the deck, but it does exactly what quest rogue does to control just like op said.
I'm playing control overload shaman, and I often get a board with 4 Giants before they hit their combo. When they win, they win but mostly if they get shudderwock out, they take 32 points of damage the next round. So I hope it gets more popular.
How is it any different from control priest with alex, mindblast and DK heropower? Its acceptable that combo decks are favoured against control but not if they can assemble it before the control deck has any chance to put on pressure. Quest rogue can assemble its combo on like T5 pretty easily but shuddy shaman and control priest not until 8/9 (with perfect draw).
I don't think mind blast control priest is good comparison example. If you have enough heal, you will counter priest as a control deck. There is no real escape from Shudderwock grasp other than wrong battlecry order.
Fair enough (although in a similar way you can 'tech' for shudderwock by adding more tempo cards) Just pretend I wrote it like this the first time ^^^^ lol
Would someone kindly explain to me why it was okay to nerf Quest Rogue but not Shudderwock Shaman (or more commonly known as elemental shaman in metastats)?
http://metastats.net/deck/7c1a804a-78b4-4155-9724-121fd59502ed/last4/ - Shudderwock
http://metastats.net/archetypedecks/Quest-Rogue/ - Quest Rogue
The similarities between the two decks are as follows:
1. They both shut down similar archetypes completely and it's almost an instant loss when you match up against one.
2. They are both not interactive decks and have no counters besides aggro decks. The loss of dirty rat in the standard format means it can't be teched against.
3. They both boast similar win rates with the highest being 55% (refer to the above links).
So, why does blizzard deem quest rogue as a problem but shudderwock as acceptable. Why is it okay to have decks that go infinite damage and have no counters? The thing that makes shudderwock so much more obnoxious is the wait time (which has been addressed and is significantly better) as well as the fact that they are able to play their combo pieces as opposed to holding on to them. This gives them more survivability and shaman already has some really good board clears that are able to deal with mid-range and control decks but not aggro (due to the loss of maelstorm portal).
This may seem like whining to some, and I apologize if that is the case. I Just don't understand blizzards logic...
I don't really consider the 2 to be the same in play style. Shaman has to draw this card and a few others to pull off a combo. Similar to other combo decks such as Maly Druid.
Quest rouge plays quest. Play a cheap minion. Bounce minion. Games over.
Seem a little different in play style?
How exactly do you beat them when you are playing control? Unless you are cubelock or you are control lock (using Rin). It's almost impossible with the existing control decks (priest, mage, druid, warrior). It's a really awful match up.
Priest might have a chance if they draw well but they revolve around drawing their combo pieces too but they don't have hex to deal with minions.
The overall winrate doesn't tell you anything about the specific winrate. So my guess is that the shudderwock deck is not as polarizing as quest rogue. Meaning that the winrates are not 80/20 and 20/80 for favored or unfavored matchups, but closer to even (maybe 65/35).
But if shudderwock decks are rising in numbers again, we'll see whether it also needs a nerf (at present I do not think it does).
If you are talking about similarity in playstyle then it is somewhat similar to:
Play your minions for your quest/combo. Play win all against control card.
Quest is finished way earlier than Shudderwock. So Controldecks have way more time to pressuer the opponent and finish them off before the fiesta begins.
QR had a way bigger win rate than shudderwock at legend(mostly due to people whoring cube/control lock there). The decks aren't really as similar as you're making it sound either. Shudderwock can still be beaten by control decks like warlock and priest if they manage to draw their win conditions faster, and is only really auto win against fatigue decks like Odd Warrior, whereas QR is literally a deck that beats any slow deck almost EVERY SINGLE TIME and loses to aggro just as often.
How is it any different from control priest with alex, mindblast and DK heropower?
Its acceptable that combo decks are favoured against control but not if they can assemble it before the control deck has any chance to put on pressure. Quest rogue can assemble its combo on like T5 pretty easily but shuddy shaman and control priest not until 8/9 (with perfect draw).
If you lose to that deck, you either have bad luck or it's entirely on you.
Al these cries for nerfs...
I seldom lose to shudderwock. I always lose to QR.
Quest rogue was much more oppressive. That's all.
because my jaws that bind my claws that catch?
because it doesnt take practically the entire game to assemble everything they need to win with combo? maybe???
Quest needed it because a board 5/5 charging 1 drops is a fun lethal just like a board of savage roared treants lol
Do or do not. There is no try.
I think the amount of people shrugging off Shudderwock shaman as a threat is telling. We must have a bunch of aggro players in our midst because let me tell you. Big mage, mind blast priest, control warrior and control warlock are all helpless when the shudderwock train starts rolling. And it's very easy to get rolling when your opponent isn't threatening lethal every turn. Rage is sitting in top 20 legend playing shudderwock right now. I love the deck, but it does exactly what quest rogue does to control just like op said.
Because Shudderwok sucks and Quest Rogue doesn't. Also higher on ladder there's TONS of QR. I've seen ZERO Shudderwoks since about rank 10.
(although in a similar way you can 'tech' for shudderwock by adding more tempo cards)
Just pretend I wrote it like this the first time ^^^^ lol
According to latest VS report, QR is one of only five decks with 50% win rate, in a meta where paladin is king. That says it all.