I get your point but I have to remind you that I'm focusing on the 'aggro = no skill' topic. That's why I point out the following: - sitting behind removal and tempo cards then pop out one legendary after another is not skill to me (control war, control/midrange pally) - 8 mana 20 stats etc. plus a 6 mana cairne-level drop is not skill (midrange hunter) - curving out as tempo mage then praise yogg if shit happens is not skill
So, once again, I question: why only aggro shamans and zoolocks gets the 'no skill involved' hate?
THANK YOU. I feel the same way. Its not that Im saying aggro decks take a ton of skill. They dont. But how much skill is involved in just letting the other guy go to town on your face until your are down to 1 turn kill and then throwing out Reno? Im sorry, but Reno is the biggest piece of sh~~ card in hearthstone. I have it, and I will freely admit, I have never used the stupid effing card. It doesnt take skill to win when you have two health bars... Sorry it doesnt.
I should add that I haev nothing against control decks. Just Reno Jackson
The skill is in finding the surest way to get to a situation where you can play a high value card and win from there with the cards that are given to you, not in the action of playing that high value card per se. Is this not self-evident?
Why exactly are you all arguing about which deck requires skill, which doesn't ? Beside combo/OTK decks (with the exception of the Warrior worgle), most others requires just trading knowledge (something Arena teach you best).
Regardless of the deck, a good player will always make the difference against a bad one. There is a reason why in all format you meet net deck from rank 20 to rank 1. Player counts too. Even for smorking decks.
Hearthstone have been designed around casual gaming. No card features particularly complex mechanics, even the most researched ones are quite easy to use (Xaril for example is both well thought and easy to use), and combo mechanics are kinda straight forward. Most complex behaviour (examples from Toast 2-3 quizz video) in interactions happens once in a blue moon that you don't really need to learn them.
Priest control back in time was told to be a smart deck. Really? "Copy everything" and hope to gain control of the board ain't complicated, not Soulpriest + Circle combo. Chaman cancer is told to be a retarded deck. Yet, to maximize its efforts, requires to have a good knowledge of tradings priority and analysis of the game to decide when to smork, when to trade. What about pre standard control Warrior. Just survive til the end and Grommash face/Elise & hope for the best.
Hearthstone requires decent skill for any type of deck, if you hope to reach high ranks.
Dont take that serious this thread, its just a salty thread, just that made for control players, the number of well argumented comments say it for itself,everyone is messing concepts here also making the thread itself pitiful and making a fool of every control player.
Personally, i dont think that almost a single deck is really skilled, its the match up itself. For example, freeze is imo a hard deck, but if you play against zoo and both of you draw decently, you can missplay and still win although the deck is hard and shouldn't be allowed to do any mistake, but that match up is stupid for freeze, priest vs contorl warrior or another priest back in LOE was really low skilled, basially priest had a huge adventadge even if the warriro played perfect, and priest vs priest is the oen that starts better and can play velen in zombie cho or deathlord, nothing more. Zoo vs Zoo have a lot of thinking the first turn, and some tech decision that can change the game such as sea giant (indeed zoo vs zoo is more skilled than priest vs priest), CW vs CW was skilled before elise.
Still none care about skill or not, they are just salty and will complain about it, you never lose because your enemy played well, He is just a lucky retard.
So ironic that only aggro or zoo players call control no-skill. If it would be no-skill, every control player out there would be legend. There's a reason why every retard can be legend with aggro shaman but only a very few can be with control paladin.
I can play Control Pally but I cant play aggro. Its because both require some basic experience about the deck and I happened to like CP more than Aggro. Both can be mastered within like 50-70 games and they require no particular "skill" at all. I only can assume that you are just a CP player that believes he is "skilled" because he can play CP...
No deck requires skill other than Combo. What they require is experience.
So ironic that only aggro or zoo players call control no-skill. If it would be no-skill, every control player out there would be legend. There's a reason why every retard can be legend with aggro shaman but only a very few can be with control paladin.
if you want skill, play a combo deck. as someone says further down this page. control and agro both require experience, not skill. the only true skilful decks are combo decks as you cannot make mistakes.
From where I'm standing it just looks like people calling the decks they don't like or that hard counters there preferential deck or archetype
at the end of the day this can be stripped down to a rock, paper scissors base. No one deck should not have hard counters.
also the way a meta works is, people play something that has as little counters as possible, then people counter that deck, then people counter that deck, then people counter that deck and so on. You are always going to get newer decks that ruin older archetypes and the way to destroy a control deck is to be too fast for them to get to do what they need to do... this is the very essence of meta and how it will always be... people are just trying to counter what is beating them, the results are not the fault of any one deck archetype as far as I can see, it's just how the game has naturally evolved given the tools the community have available in any given time period.
I've only been playing the game a month, and this is pretty much where I have landed on the whole "agro vs control" argument.
I am in my 30's, so maybe I have a better time grasping the larger picture... but seriously though, you guys are directing the energy in the wrong places, instead of quitting the game, just learn to counter what you don't like.. maybe that can't be done with control decks in standard because it's evolved to kill control decks.... you can always play control in wild if that's your bag, and when you get to higher ranks there are more control vs control master battles going on so I hear, so just use a deck that can get you to this place and switch back.
I certainly wouldn't quit the game because an archetype has been hard countered due to the evolution of the game.
besides, there are still at least 4 extremely viable control decks right now!
I get your point but I have to remind you that I'm focusing on the 'aggro = no skill' topic. That's why I point out the following: - sitting behind removal and tempo cards then pop out one legendary after another is not skill to me (control war, control/midrange pally) - 8 mana 20 stats etc. plus a 6 mana cairne-level drop is not skill (midrange hunter) - curving out as tempo mage then praise yogg if shit happens is not skill
So, once again, I question: why only aggro shamans and zoolocks gets the 'no skill involved' hate?
THANK YOU. I feel the same way. Its not that Im saying aggro decks take a ton of skill. They dont. But how much skill is involved in just letting the other guy go to town on your face until your are down to 1 turn kill and then throwing out Reno? Im sorry, but Reno is the biggest piece of sh~~ card in hearthstone. I have it, and I will freely admit, I have never used the stupid effing card. It doesnt take skill to win when you have two health bars... Sorry it doesnt.
I should add that I haev nothing against control decks. Just Reno Jackson
The skill is in finding the surest way to get to a situation where you can play a high value card and win from there with the cards that are given to you, not in the action of playing that high value card per se. Is this not self-evident?
That 'skill' you name in your post is no more and no less than the skill required to make good trades, considering future plays and deciding when it's time to start going face in any aggro deck.
And is this supposed to be a self-evident statement? Because its not self-evident to me and I am decent at both aggro and control.
yeah, I guess natural ability and skill are different really as skill can be attained by practice in most cases.
natural ability can determine how far you will go in said field though.. I think probably the best hearthstone players have an affinity towards numbers and or chess players. Being able to out think in terms of moves ahead and tactics are key, as well as being able to do the maths.. I'm pretty bad at maths really as I have a form of dyslexia, I really have to count properly when playing a combo deck, that's why I think they are the most skillful decks, if you get your maths wrong or you forget one piece of a combo you just lost the game... all other archetypes allow for some amount of error where as the worgen combo must always be right.
Well. The next shaman control is going to be spell power shaman, running all the aoes, with a zeus shaman "core" most likely. Thal, azure, and maybe one other minon with spell damage is all its going to need to work, and we get our own "war axe" with the spirit claws for single target removal and early game control. If you remember, the idea for a burn control is to build up to a lethal with from hand damage while making value plays and staying out of range. The core concept will work. Just needs non spell win condition.
Hell. I could see cthuun power shaman. With the panda, chosen and emperor 7 kit.
Well. The next shaman control is going to be spell power shaman, running all the aoes, with a zeus shaman "core" most likely. Thal, azure, and maybe one other minon with spell damage is all its going to need to work, and we get our own "war axe" with the spirit claws for single target removal and early game control. If you remember, the idea for a burn control is to build up to a lethal with from hand damage while making value plays and staying out of range. The core concept will work. Just needs non spell win condition.
Hell. I could see cthuun power shaman. With the panda, chosen and emperor 7 kit.
I've already been toying with this concept using maelstrom and the old malygos shaman shell. It actually works well against anything but C'thun Warrior.
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If you want to play control go to wild casual.
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild
Having a good time with the meta.
Control is dead yes. It's one reason I've decided to quit HS for a while. Might even quit for good if they don't do something for the next exp pack.
Can you name a single neutral response to aggro that costs less than 4 mana? Doomsayer? That's like 1 card.
...There is just no way that happens...
(It happens)
From where I'm standing it just looks like people calling the decks they don't like or that hard counters there preferential deck or archetype
at the end of the day this can be stripped down to a rock, paper scissors base. No one deck should not have hard counters.
also the way a meta works is, people play something that has as little counters as possible, then people counter that deck, then people counter that deck, then people counter that deck and so on. You are always going to get newer decks that ruin older archetypes and the way to destroy a control deck is to be too fast for them to get to do what they need to do... this is the very essence of meta and how it will always be... people are just trying to counter what is beating them, the results are not the fault of any one deck archetype as far as I can see, it's just how the game has naturally evolved given the tools the community have available in any given time period.
I've only been playing the game a month, and this is pretty much where I have landed on the whole "agro vs control" argument.
I am in my 30's, so maybe I have a better time grasping the larger picture... but seriously though, you guys are directing the energy in the wrong places, instead of quitting the game, just learn to counter what you don't like.. maybe that can't be done with control decks in standard because it's evolved to kill control decks.... you can always play control in wild if that's your bag, and when you get to higher ranks there are more control vs control master battles going on so I hear, so just use a deck that can get you to this place and switch back.
I certainly wouldn't quit the game because an archetype has been hard countered due to the evolution of the game.
besides, there are still at least 4 extremely viable control decks right now!
Skill is just being able to play a deck well.
natural ability can determine how far you will go in said field though.. I think probably the best hearthstone players have an affinity towards numbers and or chess players. Being able to out think in terms of moves ahead and tactics are key, as well as being able to do the maths.. I'm pretty bad at maths really as I have a form of dyslexia, I really have to count properly when playing a combo deck, that's why I think they are the most skillful decks, if you get your maths wrong or you forget one piece of a combo you just lost the game... all other archetypes allow for some amount of error where as the worgen combo must always be right.
Congrats, you would make a new news poster with that click bait title.
Anyway, obviously the control decks will stay but how effective they will be in the coming years is a big question.
I don't even know what a control player is. Who are these people who only play 1 kind of deck? That's weird as hell.
Well. The next shaman control is going to be spell power shaman, running all the aoes, with a zeus shaman "core" most likely. Thal, azure, and maybe one other minon with spell damage is all its going to need to work, and we get our own "war axe" with the spirit claws for single target removal and early game control. If you remember, the idea for a burn control is to build up to a lethal with from hand damage while making value plays and staying out of range. The core concept will work. Just needs non spell win condition.
Hell. I could see cthuun power shaman. With the panda, chosen and emperor 7 kit.