I really don't get the hate on aggro decks, zoolock gets SO rekt by warrior's AOEs (on EU servers the game is Warstone)
Your counter points are only about one class in Warrior, there are control decks for every class, especially Shaman and Warlock at the moment, but all of them are tier 3 except Warrior. Warrior's best deck right now is Tempo not control, which is just another form of aggro.
Aggro pushes out everything else, like Priest and Rogue as entire classes, and control decks for the remaining classes.
1. The amount of snobbery in this thread is amazing.
2. AFAIK, control was never a dominant format.
3. There are perfectly viable control decks to play on ladder and get legend with them. Warrior has 2, Shaman and Paladin come to mind, Renolock is very solid.
4. Combo decks were sometimes tricky to play. Control depends on the deck/class really. Control warrior was never more difficult than playing an aggro or midrange/tempo deck. Control Priest required some basic skill, but not like freeze mage or Malygos Rogue, for example.
5. Also, you could say that making 1 small mistake as an aggro/face deck will cost you the game, because in the end you were missing 1-2 damage to finish your oppoenent before it was too late. Midrange decks are less sensitive to "make 1 mistake, lose the game" concepts. It applies equally to Control and Aggro, and it is most pronounced in combo decks.
6. Going face with Shaman 90% of the time will lose you the game, especially if you do it in the early game. That's not how aggro is played, never was, never will be.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Face hunter never traded only during Undertaker days (except clear with weapon). It did have to trade afterwards in the early game. Such a face deck does not exist anymore anyway. I will agree that Control Warrior was harder to play then a typical midrange deck that plays on curve. But not harder than an aggro deck. Aggro deck does not always play on curve like a midrange deck. But I do generally agree with you. People should stop with the aggro = easy, control = hard nonsense. No HS deck is hard to play if you have half a brain and know the mechanics and have a good knowledge of cards. But if you have to rank them by difficulty: Combo>Some Control>Aggro=Some Control>Midrange. But really, once you learn the deck, it's all super easy. Does a freeze mage or Control Priest specialist think their decks are difficult? No. Laughing or Kolento can play that stuff in their sleep. So, I don't know why all the snobbery here.
You are making it sound like control decks don't exist (not true, some are really good right now) and that the only reason they "don't exist" is Shaman.
I think some people should take a seat, and try testing / playing with all the new cards (for at least 1-2 weeks AFTER all the cards come out) to make such a conclusion.
Faster decks are definitely better than control decks on ladder right now, but I think all is lost just yet. It only takes 1 or 2 really good defensive cards to give slow decks a fighting chance, prime examples would be Belcher and Healbot. I also think that if Blizzard could print some good removal instead of making their expansions 90% minions, we could get to a more balanced place.
In short, I believe we need more spells (that can't target face). Also at least Warrior Ctrl still holds down the fort, it's pretty much the last and only actually good ctrl deck right now.
Nice looking deck, I'm going to try it out. I've been playing N'zoth paladin with dreadful results. It's full of late game legendaries and seems terrible against aggro. This deck only has 4 legendaries in comparison and may be easier to play on ladder. I'll give it a try!
as long as Reno is around, control decks are going to be a pain in the arse to deal with.. there might not be as many of them as some of the faster decks, but there are still extremely viable control decks out there right now being played, and I'm sure there will be new stuff with the new adventure.. the cards haven't really been tested enough to know how good they will be.
I'd disagree saying that Aggro takes no skill to play. All decks do take some skill to play but yes Control decks do take more skill. The real problem with HS is that it takes so much dust to actually make control decks that most players don't have so they have to settle for cheaper aggressive decks if they want to play standard. It's pretty fucked up but unless there becomes cheaper control options and better control options aggro decks will always dominate the Meta
With the new expansions blizzard only pushes aggro decks, almost no card came in that could help control decks.
First off, we are dominated by Midrange/Tempo not Aggro.
Tempo is just a politically correct term for Aggro.
That is absolute bullshit since Aggro-decks try to finish the game as fast as possible while Tempo-decks try to outtempo the opponent and dominate the board, only after that they start going face, so Tempo-decks are always Midrange. A real Aggro-deck never fights for board-control over facedamage unless they absolutly have to.
Dude you don't know what you are talking about.
a tempo deck out values the opponent with more efficient cards (and that is quoting trump) and don't say that's a value deck please, as a value deck works on reducing card cost.
He was closer than you on the term for tempo deck though, tempo is not agro at all, it's just faster than control. LoL so really just anything that isn't control then!? :D
I'd disagree saying that Aggro takes no skill to play. All decks do take some skill to play but yes Control decks do take more skill. The real problem with HS is that it takes so much dust to actually make control decks that most players don't have so they have to settle for cheaper aggressive decks if they want to play standard. It's pretty fucked up but unless there becomes cheaper control options and better control options aggro decks will always dominate the Meta
I think some combo decks can be harder than control... it's just control has evolved to be the way it is as it's the connoisseur's choice... they make the decks that way on purpose to be a challenge I would imagine to a point at least... and if that is not the case at all, they at least pick these decks because they are challenging and because they have become so good at the game, more simple decks bore them I would imagine... this is all really a good thing... but beginners need decks to play too. It's good when a game has decks with ranging difficultly curves. reminds me of blood bowl actually, how some teams are a lot harder to play that others to allow veterans to play beginners and even out the playing field a bit.
Yup i agree that combo decks do take more skill then control. I meant that Control decks take more skill then Aggro.
yeah, I like it how we can still play higher skilled decks that are pretty cheap to build the otk stuff, so you aren't just stuck with agro and mid range stuff. I do really there there is a good variety, even if the same decks pop up a lot, it's not so bad that all you face is like 1 or 2 decks, at least not for me anyway.
Yup i agree that combo decks do take more skill then control. I meant that Control decks take more skill then Aggro.
*than x2
I do agree to your theory in some decks (freezemage), but otk warrior for example was much easier to perform well with (that was at least my experience).
Zoolock is actually one of the hardest decks to play perfectly, people who bash zoo are just stupid and have no clue about this game. This is not the case with aggro shaman tho, bots have took aggro shaman to legend because 9 out of 10 times the right play is just to go face.
Control decks require lot more thinking ahead than any other archetypes, wasting your removals on low-value minions/board can cost you the game instantly. Making a small mistake as a control player is a lot more punishing than making a small mistake with aggro deck.
I'm a zoolock player and I think that the pre-standard Zoolock was one of the hardest decks to play (even having Dr Boom), along with Patron Warrior and Freeze Mage. Every turn counted, and in a similar way than Control decks, one mistake costed you the game. But once you master it, that was an amazing deck to play and to play against. And also, I literally learned how to play certain decks by running zoolock against them, like the good Freeze Mage.
Today's zoolock I feel it just slightly more skilled than aggro shaman and old face hunter, but almost as stupid as them.
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I'm looking forward to Reno/Secret Mage with Babbling Book, Firelands Portal and Medivh's Valet. Oh, and Arcane Golem.
1. The amount of snobbery in this thread is amazing.
2. AFAIK, control was never a dominant format.
3. There are perfectly viable control decks to play on ladder and get legend with them. Warrior has 2, Shaman and Paladin come to mind, Renolock is very solid.
4. Combo decks were sometimes tricky to play. Control depends on the deck/class really. Control warrior was never more difficult than playing an aggro or midrange/tempo deck. Control Priest required some basic skill, but not like freeze mage or Malygos Rogue, for example.
5. Also, you could say that making 1 small mistake as an aggro/face deck will cost you the game, because in the end you were missing 1-2 damage to finish your oppoenent before it was too late. Midrange decks are less sensitive to "make 1 mistake, lose the game" concepts. It applies equally to Control and Aggro, and it is most pronounced in combo decks.
6. Going face with Shaman 90% of the time will lose you the game, especially if you do it in the early game. That's not how aggro is played, never was, never will be.
Woah, haha, look at all the opinions in here.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Face hunter never traded only during Undertaker days (except clear with weapon). It did have to trade afterwards in the early game. Such a face deck does not exist anymore anyway. I will agree that Control Warrior was harder to play then a typical midrange deck that plays on curve. But not harder than an aggro deck. Aggro deck does not always play on curve like a midrange deck. But I do generally agree with you. People should stop with the aggro = easy, control = hard nonsense. No HS deck is hard to play if you have half a brain and know the mechanics and have a good knowledge of cards. But if you have to rank them by difficulty: Combo>Some Control>Aggro=Some Control>Midrange. But really, once you learn the deck, it's all super easy. Does a freeze mage or Control Priest specialist think their decks are difficult? No. Laughing or Kolento can play that stuff in their sleep. So, I don't know why all the snobbery here.
You are making it sound like control decks don't exist (not true, some are really good right now) and that the only reason they "don't exist" is Shaman.
I think some people should take a seat, and try testing / playing with all the new cards (for at least 1-2 weeks AFTER all the cards come out) to make such a conclusion.
I mean... Arcane Giant...
Faster decks are definitely better than control decks on ladder right now, but I think all is lost just yet. It only takes 1 or 2 really good defensive cards to give slow decks a fighting chance, prime examples would be Belcher and Healbot. I also think that if Blizzard could print some good removal instead of making their expansions 90% minions, we could get to a more balanced place.
In short, I believe we need more spells (that can't target face). Also at least Warrior Ctrl still holds down the fort, it's pretty much the last and only actually good ctrl deck right now.
Nice looking deck, I'm going to try it out. I've been playing N'zoth paladin with dreadful results. It's full of late game legendaries and seems terrible against aggro. This deck only has 4 legendaries in comparison and may be easier to play on ladder. I'll give it a try!
as long as Reno is around, control decks are going to be a pain in the arse to deal with.. there might not be as many of them as some of the faster decks, but there are still extremely viable control decks out there right now being played, and I'm sure there will be new stuff with the new adventure.. the cards haven't really been tested enough to know how good they will be.
also. wild is control central.
I'd disagree saying that Aggro takes no skill to play. All decks do take some skill to play but yes Control decks do take more skill. The real problem with HS is that it takes so much dust to actually make control decks that most players don't have so they have to settle for cheaper aggressive decks if they want to play standard. It's pretty fucked up but unless there becomes cheaper control options and better control options aggro decks will always dominate the Meta
He was closer than you on the term for tempo deck though, tempo is not agro at all, it's just faster than control. LoL so really just anything that isn't control then!? :D
Yup i agree that combo decks do take more skill then control. I meant that Control decks take more skill then Aggro.