Many people are happy about the new nerfs, but I'm quite scared that now Shamans will get even better.
The only tier 1 decks that are competing with Shaman are Maly/Token Druid, Tempo Mage, Dragon Warrior, and Midrange Hunter. All these decks took a hard hit. However, the nerfs to Shaman were quite small.
Midrange Shaman should easily be able to find replacements. Rockbiter Weapon [/card] was used for removal, not burst, so this card could be replaced with something like [card]Stormcrack - some Midrange Shamans doesn't even run Doomhammer..
My point is, Shaman got nerfed, but the other decks competing with Shaman got nerfed even harder, so doesn't that make Shaman even better?
Nah, Tuskar was a big problem you could lose the game on turn 3 if he summoned a totem golem or a flame/draw totem and you can't deal with them you lose. now shaman overcommitting to wolves on turn 2 with coin won't allow them to get rid of your board with one mana unless lightning bolt. I'd rather them be overloaded than not.
ure wrong ... Control Warrior, for example, didn't get hit at all. The execute nerf hit Aggro Warrior WAY harder than control and since I counter Shaman with my spell heavy Control Warrior I don't care about that nerf at all.
I agree with all of those nerfs and I think the game will be at least a little bit more healthy when they hit. The only nerf I really don't like is Yogg.
1. I praise Yogg and I love it :D
2. The Yogg nerf is too much. Overload AND stop casting spells when he dies? One of those changes would have been sufficient ... imagine now feral spirit + elemental destruction ... 10 mana card clears the board and overloads for 7. Yogg is dead now, great unleash/buzzard nerf blizzard
Yogg was unhealthy for the game this was needed. Outplaying your opponent and lose to one card because you didn't manage to kill your opponent turn 10, it's fun the first few times then it gets old.
ure wrong ... Control Warrior, for example, didn't get hit at all. The execute nerf hit Aggro Warrior WAY harder than control and since I counter Shaman with my spell heavy Control Warrior I don't care about that nerf at all.
I agree with all of those nerfs and I think the game will be at least a little bit more healthy when they hit. The only nerf I really don't like is Yogg.
1. I praise Yogg and I love it :D
2. The Yogg nerf is too much. Overload AND stop casting spells when he dies? One of those changes would have been sufficient ... imagine now feral spirit + elemental destruction ... 10 mana card clears the board and overloads for 7. Yogg is dead now, great unleash/buzzard nerf blizzard
Yogg was unhealthy for the game this was needed. Outplaying your opponent and lose to one card because you didn't manage to kill your opponent turn 10, it's fun the first few times then it gets old.
At least we have plenty of clips on youtube to remind us of the insanity.
Midrange Shaman doesn't rely on Totem Golem rolls from Tuskarr to win games. It doesn't actually happen all that often, tbh, but confirmation bias makes people think that it happens all the time (they don't remember all the times it simply rolls a healing totem, for example). So I don't think the Tuskarr nerf will have that great of an impact.
The loss of Rockbiter just means that most lists will start to gravitate towards an aggro/midrange hybrid build, where they can utilize Overload with tunnel troggs. Besides, Thing from Below cares very little for Overload.
Overall, I think that Shaman won't take a huge hit. And like others have pointed out; most of the other classes that Shaman struggled with also got nerfed.
ure wrong ... Control Warrior, for example, didn't get hit at all. The execute nerf hit Aggro Warrior WAY harder than control and since I counter Shaman with my spell heavy Control Warrior I don't care about that nerf at all. Aggro Warrior btw was a huge issue as well ... not only shaman
No, you're wrong. Control Warrior had started putting Yogg into their deck to help clear the board and draw cards. But now Yogg is nerfed. And to top it all off, Control Warrior was already hugely unfavoured against Midrange Shaman. So Control Warrior did get hit.
face mage is a thing again, like freeze but aggresive and it is good against most of the meta, including midrange shamans. midrange shaman will not be too bad because mage will take over, warrior will also lose hold and we will see a meta built to counter this new mage deck. from what I can tell paladin is very good against it because of all the heals, so maybe paladin will see resurgence and if paladin comes back then we will probably see some more slower decks than we have in a while. there is hope, do not fret.
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Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
The most problematic things in aggro/midrange shaman were tuskar, 4mana 7/7 and doomhammer+rockbitter combo. Now Tuskar isn't a problem at all and doom+rockibter combo cost more so it's a little harder to pull it out, 4 mana 7/7 isn't really so good as people were thinking it is, right now many shaman builds dosent contains it.
Shaman can still be pretty good tier1 but it woludnt be as overpowered as it used to be.
Just let's see what other get nerfed:
Cal of the skill - changing into 9 mana just make you die 1 turn later lol, the only difference is that you cant go for call+hero power at turn 10, not really big nerf
Execute at 2 mana is still one of the best removal in the game... as warrior player i dont really mind.
Charge - worgen otk werent seen on the ladder often so w/e
Abuive is hit to zoo and shaman so it doesnt really make a difference in matchups zoo vs shaman
Yogg still can be good i think it has lower chances of turning the table upside down, this one actually make a difference.
Summarizing most nerfed classes are Shaman and Mage, other classes dont really care. I tink its even possible that shaman is going to tier2 very soon.
Anyone who plays shaman knows that the basic totems are NOT good by themselves, the only totem that may be of real use is the taunt totem, everything else is extremelly conditional and being a roll makes it worst. With tuskar now casting only basics I don't think it will see any play besides trying to make a 4 mana thing from below, and with rockbiter being 2 mana now there is no fucking point in having a 0/2 totem in play when it cost so much to kill it against something.
People are driven by their shortsightedness and the dev, as stupid as their are, affraid of losing money, they just catter to the vocal part of the playerbase. Tuskar into totem golem was not game winning, it newer was and never will, if you lose to that you're just plain bad at this kiddy game. The best cast for tuskar was manatide totem, yes, if shaman lacks is proper card draw, having a mana tide so soon was the bees knees, even better than a stupid 3/4 that you could cast it for 2 mana anyways.
The real problem is the lack of proper removal in all classes, but hey, let's make rockbiter, a card that requires you to suicide a minion or lose life worst tht frostbolt, a card that demands nothing and also freeze the target if it doesn't kill it, good and balanced right? stupid people.
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There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
ure wrong ... Control Warrior, for example, didn't get hit at all. The execute nerf hit Aggro Warrior WAY harder than control and since I counter Shaman with my spell heavy Control Warrior I don't care about that nerf at all. Aggro Warrior btw was a huge issue as well ... not only shaman
No, you're wrong. Control Warrior had started putting Yogg into their deck to help clear the board and draw cards. But now Yogg is nerfed. And to top it all off, Control Warrior was already hugely unfavoured against Midrange Shaman. So Control Warrior did get hit.
But midrange shaman is nerfed too, so maybe control warrior might hold the ground enough to still challenge face shaman (and well, face shaman and midrange shaman were very similar anyways).
Abusive Sergeant is now like the actual Leper Gnome, he does not have any longer impact in himself, but on his ability (right now, buffing tokens). Tuskarr Totemic only utility now for face shaman is rolling a spell damage totem (or in certain situations a taunt), so face shaman has taken a blow (they just won't find a 3-drop as good as that one). And Rockbiter Skillhammer combo has been delayed, so more chances to get counters or put taunts or claim board and/or win the game. Stormcrack might see play in shaman, but can't be used for face bursts, so apparently face shaman will not be as strong. Who knows, right now the meta is changing, and we might get to see decks like renolock rising again to keep face shaman and other face decks in check (or not).
face mage is a thing again, like freeze but aggresive and it is good against most of the meta, including midrange shamans. midrange shaman will not be too bad because mage will take over, warrior will also lose hold and we will see a meta built to counter this new mage deck. from what I can tell paladin is very good against it because of all the heals, so maybe paladin will see resurgence and if paladin comes back then we will probably see some more slower decks than we have in a while. there is hope, do not fret.
Warrior won't lose hold because execute is 2 mana. the best counter to any burst spell mage we know is Control warrior. It has kept freeze in check all this time and it will keep such a mage in check as well.
Don't worry about the Hobgoblins in Standard, I've sent off several tweets and a single well-worded letter to Blizzard to tell them to put it in the Classic set, so I imagine we'll see it there next week.
On a serious note, I don't think that Shaman overall was buffed, because Tuskarr Totemic and Rockbiter Weapon were very, very powerful cards. The versatility of Rockbiter was insane, and Tuskarr could win you the game on turn 3.
I also disagree that any deck that ran Yogg-Saron, Hope's End was nerfed. Yogg was a panic button for those decks, not a win condition. They generally win the game with other cards, and then sometimes win lost games with Yogg.
Many people are happy about the new nerfs, but I'm quite scared that now Shamans will get even better.
The only tier 1 decks that are competing with Shaman are Maly/Token Druid, Tempo Mage, Dragon Warrior, and Midrange Hunter. All these decks took a hard hit. However, the nerfs to Shaman were quite small.
Midrange Shaman should easily be able to find replacements. Rockbiter Weapon [/card] was used for removal, not burst, so this card could be replaced with something like [card]Stormcrack - some Midrange Shamans doesn't even run Doomhammer..
My point is, Shaman got nerfed, but the other decks competing with Shaman got nerfed even harder, so doesn't that make Shaman even better?
so basically you watched Reynad's video and want opinions on it? Shaman will keep dominating the game until tgt and loe rotate out (losing trogg, thunder bluff valiant, and totem golem) and then shaman will be back to average.
Druid, Mage and dragon warrior have all been categorized as T2 decks the last few weeks. I don't play much shaman, but after playing some aggro shaman last night I think that the deck is going to be pretty obsolete after they implement the changes.
so basically you watched Reynad's video and want opinions on it? Shaman will keep dominating the game until tgt and loe rotate out (losing trogg, thunder bluff valiant, and totem golem) and then shaman will be back to average.
Average? what average? tell me when shaman was up to the level of druid? of rogue? the only viable archetype shaman had before LoE was.... NOTHING, and after LoE the only viable way of playing it was aggro shaman, an unoriginal variation of aggro hunter.
When shaman lose all those 3 cards there must be something as good for it in the incoming sets or it will be down to the useless trash it was, with a clunky class system and underpowered cards that do half what any other class can do better.
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There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
Many people are happy about the new nerfs, but I'm quite scared that now Shamans will get even better.
The only tier 1 decks that are competing with Shaman are Maly/Token Druid, Tempo Mage, Dragon Warrior, and Midrange Hunter. All these decks took a hard hit. However, the nerfs to Shaman were quite small.
Midrange Shaman should easily be able to find replacements. Rockbiter Weapon [/card] was used for removal, not burst, so this card could be replaced with something like [card]Stormcrack - some Midrange Shamans doesn't even run Doomhammer..
My point is, Shaman got nerfed, but the other decks competing with Shaman got nerfed even harder, so doesn't that make Shaman even better?
so basically you watched Reynad's video and want opinions on it? Shaman will keep dominating the game until tgt and loe rotate out (losing trogg, thunder bluff valiant, and totem golem) and then shaman will be back to average.
I think Reynad makes some good points but he is generally pretty negative about stuff.
OP - CW Is one of the very few decks that actually has a positive win rate against mid range Shaman and the nerf to Execute, while a pain in the early game, doesn't really effect CW too much because most of the time CW has mana to spare in the mid / late game.
Maly / Yogg Druid is not a good game against mid range Shaman. Yogg was the only reason they were able to flip things around sometimes. If the nerf to Yogg means that Maly / Yogg Druid is a straight up bad match for mid range Shaman then I'll take it. It's a sacrifice worth taking.
Tempo mage is at best even against mid range Shaman and didn't lose anything. Still got a shot and maybe even more so with the nerf to Rockbiter because it stops that early game snowball.
Hunter has not had a positive win rate against Shaman for a while now so the nerf to CotW doesn't change anything.
Dragon Warrior was dying out anyway. Hardly seen because it's so weak against Hunters which exploded on ladder after ONiK.
So the end result of these nerfs is that mid range Shaman is still king. That's not the worst thing ever. One deck will always be stronger than others. But with the nerf to Tuskar and Rockbiter, I think other decks will have a better chance of staying in the game and fighting back rather than losing by turn 3.
Midrange Shaman doesn't rely on Totem Golem rolls from Tuskarr to win games. It doesn't actually happen all that often, tbh, but confirmation bias makes people think that it happens all the time (they don't remember all the times it simply rolls a healing totem, for example). So I don't think the Tuskarr nerf will have that great of an impact.
Err, it happen a lot. There are four basic totems, and getting any of the three non-basic totems Totem Golem, Flametongue Totem, or Mana Tide Totem created a snowballing situation.
Yes, but I've won plenty of games when my Tuskarr simply rolled a 1/1 or a healing totem, and I'd even go so far as to say that spell damage and taunt totems are desirable. With other totem synergies like Thing from Below and Thunderbluff, any extra totem tokens on the board are a threat.
Shamans definitely are getting nerfed, don't get me wrong... but I don't think this will kill the archetype. The victor simply won't be decided as early as turn 3. Midrange will still be a top-tier deck, but it may be bumped down a spot or two. But also warriors, hunters, yogg druids and tempo mages are getting bumped as well. It will be interesting to see where everything lands after this is all said and done.
recently i made a reno mage deck with medivh as my win condition , it was a solid deck , however in ladder 2 things really frustrated me
* cancer shaman dealing over 60 face damage to a defensive deck before turn 10 i barely won the game but it was frustrating experience
* stabilizing the board vs an agressive Druid or mage yogg list then i have to watch yogg a game that i should be winning by doing random things on random target for x amount of time
Sadly this are the dominant decks in the meta , decks with a roulette move finisher , and on curve face deck . they are getting nerfed
Many people are happy about the new nerfs, but I'm quite scared that now Shamans will get even better.
The only tier 1 decks that are competing with Shaman are Maly/Token Druid, Tempo Mage, Dragon Warrior, and Midrange Hunter. All these decks took a hard hit. However, the nerfs to Shaman were quite small.
Midrange Shaman should easily be able to find replacements. Rockbiter Weapon [/card] was used for removal, not burst, so this card could be replaced with something like [card]Stormcrack - some Midrange Shamans doesn't even run Doomhammer..
My point is, Shaman got nerfed, but the other decks competing with Shaman got nerfed even harder, so doesn't that make Shaman even better?
so basically you watched Reynad's video and want opinions on it? Shaman will keep dominating the game until tgt and loe rotate out (losing trogg, thunder bluff valiant, and totem golem) and then shaman will be back to average.
Back to average? Lol, you mean back to crap. The absolute worst class in the game, which it has been for much of hearthstone's life. Stop painting a false rosy picture. Rockbiter a evergreen card, one of their few decent ones, was nerfed too.
Many people are happy about the new nerfs, but I'm quite scared that now Shamans will get even better.
The only tier 1 decks that are competing with Shaman are Maly/Token Druid, Tempo Mage, Dragon Warrior, and Midrange Hunter. All these decks took a hard hit. However, the nerfs to Shaman were quite small.
Midrange Shaman should easily be able to find replacements. Rockbiter Weapon [/card] was used for removal, not burst, so this card could be replaced with something like [card]Stormcrack - some Midrange Shamans doesn't even run Doomhammer..
My point is, Shaman got nerfed, but the other decks competing with Shaman got nerfed even harder, so doesn't that make Shaman even better?
Nah, Tuskar was a big problem you could lose the game on turn 3 if he summoned a totem golem or a flame/draw totem and you can't deal with them you lose. now shaman overcommitting to wolves on turn 2 with coin won't allow them to get rid of your board with one mana unless lightning bolt. I'd rather them be overloaded than not.
Current Deck: [Moon-Arcane Medivh]
Watch me play and follow me on Twitch
Current Deck: [Moon-Arcane Medivh]
Watch me play and follow me on Twitch
Midrange Shaman doesn't rely on Totem Golem rolls from Tuskarr to win games. It doesn't actually happen all that often, tbh, but confirmation bias makes people think that it happens all the time (they don't remember all the times it simply rolls a healing totem, for example). So I don't think the Tuskarr nerf will have that great of an impact.
The loss of Rockbiter just means that most lists will start to gravitate towards an aggro/midrange hybrid build, where they can utilize Overload with tunnel troggs. Besides, Thing from Below cares very little for Overload.
Overall, I think that Shaman won't take a huge hit. And like others have pointed out; most of the other classes that Shaman struggled with also got nerfed.
face mage is a thing again, like freeze but aggresive and it is good against most of the meta, including midrange shamans. midrange shaman will not be too bad because mage will take over, warrior will also lose hold and we will see a meta built to counter this new mage deck. from what I can tell paladin is very good against it because of all the heals, so maybe paladin will see resurgence and if paladin comes back then we will probably see some more slower decks than we have in a while. there is hope, do not fret.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
The most problematic things in aggro/midrange shaman were tuskar, 4mana 7/7 and doomhammer+rockbitter combo. Now Tuskar isn't a problem at all and doom+rockibter combo cost more so it's a little harder to pull it out, 4 mana 7/7 isn't really so good as people were thinking it is, right now many shaman builds dosent contains it.
Shaman can still be pretty good tier1 but it woludnt be as overpowered as it used to be.
Just let's see what other get nerfed:
Cal of the skill - changing into 9 mana just make you die 1 turn later lol, the only difference is that you cant go for call+hero power at turn 10, not really big nerf
Execute at 2 mana is still one of the best removal in the game... as warrior player i dont really mind.
Charge - worgen otk werent seen on the ladder often so w/e
Abuive is hit to zoo and shaman so it doesnt really make a difference in matchups zoo vs shaman
Yogg still can be good i think it has lower chances of turning the table upside down, this one actually make a difference.
Summarizing most nerfed classes are Shaman and Mage, other classes dont really care. I tink its even possible that shaman is going to tier2 very soon.
Easy answer: NO
Anyone who plays shaman knows that the basic totems are NOT good by themselves, the only totem that may be of real use is the taunt totem, everything else is extremelly conditional and being a roll makes it worst. With tuskar now casting only basics I don't think it will see any play besides trying to make a 4 mana thing from below, and with rockbiter being 2 mana now there is no fucking point in having a 0/2 totem in play when it cost so much to kill it against something.
People are driven by their shortsightedness and the dev, as stupid as their are, affraid of losing money, they just catter to the vocal part of the playerbase. Tuskar into totem golem was not game winning, it newer was and never will, if you lose to that you're just plain bad at this kiddy game. The best cast for tuskar was manatide totem, yes, if shaman lacks is proper card draw, having a mana tide so soon was the bees knees, even better than a stupid 3/4 that you could cast it for 2 mana anyways.
The real problem is the lack of proper removal in all classes, but hey, let's make rockbiter, a card that requires you to suicide a minion or lose life worst tht frostbolt, a card that demands nothing and also freeze the target if it doesn't kill it, good and balanced right? stupid people.
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
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Current Deck: [Moon-Arcane Medivh]
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Of course Shaman got buffed, have you seen the deck I made? Buff Shaman OP!
Don't worry about the Hobgoblins in Standard, I've sent off several tweets and a single well-worded letter to Blizzard to tell them to put it in the Classic set, so I imagine we'll see it there next week.
On a serious note, I don't think that Shaman overall was buffed, because Tuskarr Totemic and Rockbiter Weapon were very, very powerful cards. The versatility of Rockbiter was insane, and Tuskarr could win you the game on turn 3.
I also disagree that any deck that ran Yogg-Saron, Hope's End was nerfed. Yogg was a panic button for those decks, not a win condition. They generally win the game with other cards, and then sometimes win lost games with Yogg.
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Shaman gets cards nerfed, poster asks if Shaman got buffed; only on the internet.
Silver Hand Murloc
Druid, Mage and dragon warrior have all been categorized as T2 decks the last few weeks. I don't play much shaman, but after playing some aggro shaman last night I think that the deck is going to be pretty obsolete after they implement the changes.
#FeelsBadMan
When shaman lose all those 3 cards there must be something as good for it in the incoming sets or it will be down to the useless trash it was, with a clunky class system and underpowered cards that do half what any other class can do better.
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
Missing lethal since June 2015.
recently i made a reno mage deck with medivh as my win condition , it was a solid deck , however in ladder 2 things really frustrated me
* cancer shaman dealing over 60 face damage to a defensive deck before turn 10 i barely won the game but it was frustrating experience
* stabilizing the board vs an agressive Druid or mage yogg list then i have to watch yogg a game that i should be winning by doing random things on random target for x amount of time
Sadly this are the dominant decks in the meta , decks with a roulette move finisher , and on curve face deck . they are getting nerfed