Curious how you guys feel about putting assasins blade in this deck? Dare I say even taking out rag? Blade seems to be a little more flexible with the use of Flurry.
Assassin's blade is a solid card. I would run a spiteful smith or cpt greenskin in conjunction.
Curious how you guys feel about putting assasins blade in this deck? Dare I say even taking out rag? Blade seems to be a little more flexible with the use of Flurry.
Assassin's Blade is good, though as I've played I've become more comfortable with Perdition's Blade. Assassin's Blade is great, don't get me wrong, but the ability to deal 4 damage (or even 3) that you're able to spread out as you see fit (and being able to shoot Faerie Dragon just feels good.
I can see the argument saying "Perdition's Blade is only good when you're playing Spiteful Smith or something else to buff it other than Deadly Poison" But it being an earlier game card and having that added effect (since the conversation here has been a lot about versatility in a card) I think it at least merits a consideration. That being said, i'd love to hear opinions about Perdition's Blade in this deck!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"What kind of conked up brain do you have?!?" - Norbert Beaver
And if I could toss my hat into the ring for the Sap Vs Assassinate debate:
Rogue has been my #1 hero since I got into the beta back when it was closed (Back when the rogue's hero power either gave you a weapon or buffed your current one) and I've bounced back and forth from Sap to Assassinate but I've always come back to Sap. Whether its bouncing a card you simply can't deal with right away, or putting you in position to win a game, it just does so much more than Assassinate. Having played other card games (I.e. Magic the Gathering) where Tempo is a much more dominate part of the meta, I simply cannot overstate the power of bounce (returning a creature to its owner's hand) so much more than straight out kill.
The part that people seem to forget about bounce spells is this: For example your opponent spends 4 mana on a Chillwind Yeti on turn 4, and the next turn you send it back to their hand. That requires them to spend yet another turn spending 4 out of their 5 mana in recasting him. When it comes to tempo, that's huge. Setting your opponent back a turn while only costing you 2 mana (realistically allowing you to do something else to advance your board position on top of it) can sometimes be just enough to put the game just out of reach for your opponent. This is why I lean towards Sap.
Personally (and this is just my preference when it comes to building decks), I find myself replacing Assassinate with The Black Knight (which I know has been talked about) and/or Big Game Hunter. I especially love Big Game Hunter in combination with Cold Blood since its really a play your opponent simply can't play around.
This is just one Rogue's opinion, but I hope I was informative!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"What kind of conked up brain do you have?!?" - Norbert Beaver
Curious how you guys feel about putting assasins blade in this deck? Dare I say even taking out rag? Blade seems to be a little more flexible with the use of Flurry.
Assassin's Blade is good, though as I've played I've become more comfortable with Perdition's Blade. Assassin's Blade is great, don't get me wrong, but the ability to deal 4 damage (or even 3) that you're able to spread out as you see fit (and being able to shoot Faerie Dragon just feels good.
I can see the argument saying "Perdition's Blade is only good when you're playing Spiteful Smith or something else to buff it other than Deadly Poison" But it being an earlier game card and having that added effect (since the conversation here has been a lot about versatility in a card) I think it at least merits a consideration. That being said, i'd love to hear opinions about Perdition's Blade in this deck!
Perdition's is one of the best tempo cards in the game. A weapon with an SI:7 battlecry is just too good. You can kill 2 weenies in 1 turn when playing vs aggro and killing a 3/2 with the battlecry is like healing yourself for 3. Turn 2 coin + perdition's can also kill a pagle if you want to. For now I don't use it in my deck but I might consider replacing a loot hoarder or a harvest golem with it when I start facing shieldbearer warlocks.
Assassin's blade gives much more value than perdition's but it's too slow for a midrange tempo deck. Especially when playing against aggro, turn 5 assassin's blade is just bad and you wouldn't want to hit minions with your face in the later turns because you're probably almost dead by then.
This is the variant deck that I am running. I don't have tinkmaster or black knight so I think I added in assasinate x2, should i swap one of these for another sap instead? And I havent used spiteful smith yet and have had many close matches so I subd him with a shadowstep which I feel is less situational and has more versatility when getting in the tougher/closer fights. How do you all feel about this?
Assassinate seems very out of place in your deck. Why not run 2x Ironbeak Owl & +1 Sap to compensate for the legendary removal cards you lack? Again, this deck is all about tempo and gaining advantage on your opponent that way.
As a note, I am currently in LOVE with Sap - it's awesome when a Druid drops 2x innervate to play a Chillwind Yeti and .. Sap happens. Freezing Trap is slightly better but I can't get myself to play the scumbag class.
ok sounds good ill try that out. Is there anything that would be more valuable ability wise like a betrayal or something to sub for one of the owls? Or its better to have the extra silence?
Until you run a Tinkmaster Overspark I would recommend you keep the extra silences. Shadowstep doesn't really fit the deck either. If you have it in there to combo Leeroy Jenkins consider adding another Cold Blood instead. That's 6 mana for about the same damage you'd get out of leeroy + coldblood + shadowstep + leeroy again and you can pull it off turn 6 instead of waiting for turn 10.
For reference, here's my tempo mid-range rogue:
Once you survive the early/mid-game versus aggressive decks, it's a breeze mid-game onward. Conversely, versus control decks, you have the ability to fill up the board quick and do little pokes of high damage with minions the opponent will generally have trouble dealing with, thus giving you a tempo advantage and hopefully the win.
Until you run a Tinkmaster Overspark I would recommend you keep the extra silences. Shadowstep doesn't really fit the deck either. If you have it in there to combo Leeroy Jenkins consider adding another Cold Blood instead. That's 6 mana for about the same damage you'd get out of leeroy + coldblood + shadowstep + leeroy again and you can pull it off turn 6 instead of waiting for turn 10.
For reference, here's my tempo mid-range rogue:
Once you survive the early/mid-game versus aggressive decks, it's a breeze mid-game onward. Conversely, versus control decks, you have the ability to fill up the board quick and do little pokes of high damage with minions the opponent will generally have trouble dealing with, thus giving you a tempo advantage and hopefully the win.
I dont think van gets as much love as he should. Opponent has to immediately deal with him. Which is always valuable.
why the senjin, cairn, smith, it looks like with cold blood and leeroy and dark irons you would rather have the hasty commanders or something else that synergizes with your mid range kill time
Sen'jin Shieldmasta is in the deck for consistent defense vs aggro; it's more reliable than Defender of Argus in a pinch. Cairne Bloodhoof is one of the best mid-range cards in the game and possibly the best 6 drop in the game. No reason to not play it in a mid-range deck. I personally ran a very similar deck and have moved over to this; before I was running Cairne Bloodhoof AND a Sen'jin Shieldmasta but felt I needed the removal more:
The big changes are the bigger late game finishers and I did make the change of replacing the Dark Iron Dwarf for 2x Argent Commander. Since this deck focuses on the midgame, I've found that more often than not, by turn 4, you don't have enough board control THROUGH MINIONS to have a target to buff. Because of this, I am looking at changing the Argent Squire out for something a bit more aggressive, maybe a Leper Gnome so you retain the comboability of the squire but gain the 4 damage it provides... that being said, I am a bit torn because they make great DoA targets, especially if you have 2 in play or are dropping them turn 6. I made the changes above because I found myself losing to really late game decks (ie: Healadin and Handlock, specifically). I find this to be a bit more consistent but that may be because of my play style - seeing a rise to about 73% win rate though the sample size is relatively small (only 20 games, 7 of them were play testing with a friend).
Note: also considering replacing the Cold Blood with Perdition's Blade due to a fellow Rogue player's recommendation - his logic was that you gain the +4 damage as a finisher AND gain an additional 2 damage, it combos with Blade Flurry but it does cost 2 more mana.
As a side note/funny story, a Mwarlock player decided to go for face and left me with both Azure Drakes in play with 26 hp. I dropped a Cold Blood + Bloodmage Thalnos and did 14 damage with Eviscerate followed by the finish with the drakes. Made me smile. This deck, both iterations, has tremendous burst capability - something I thought I'd lost when moving to the mid-range deck, granted this is and probably will continue to be an edge case.
I've been playing this deck (Well, at least a budget version of the deck since my only 3 Legendaries are Leeroy Jenkins, The Black Knight and Nat Pagle) and I've made a few tweaks to the list and its been working out amazingly for me!
MVP of the deck is definitely Perdition's Blade It's the epitome of of versatility and since the deck is already running a Spiteful Smith that only makes it that much better. I wholeheartedly think it deserves strong consideration for the DKMR build!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"What kind of conked up brain do you have?!?" - Norbert Beaver
Blade Flurry, Ironbeak Owl or Sap seem to be the top contenders in my mind. I think on balance I prefer a second sap, with a second blade blurry coming pretty close. The second sap allows you to use one for early tempo advantage (yeti removal), and still have a backup for finisher.
I like the PB instead of Cold Blood.
Thoughts on including Cairne somehow (now that tink has been nerfed)? I don't really want to give up an Argent Commander, but I feel like Cairne is basically too good not to run.
I feel like Spellbreaker is a decent replacement for Tink after changes. Although not as comboable as Ironbeak Owl, he has pretty significant body (with the only 4's in such deck being Argus). Also fits blood elf rogue theme, not to mention awesome-sounding "your magic shall not save you".
Assassin's blade is a solid card. I would run a spiteful smith or cpt greenskin in conjunction.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
Assassin's Blade is good, though as I've played I've become more comfortable with Perdition's Blade. Assassin's Blade is great, don't get me wrong, but the ability to deal 4 damage (or even 3) that you're able to spread out as you see fit (and being able to shoot Faerie Dragon just feels good.
I can see the argument saying "Perdition's Blade is only good when you're playing Spiteful Smith or something else to buff it other than Deadly Poison" But it being an earlier game card and having that added effect (since the conversation here has been a lot about versatility in a card) I think it at least merits a consideration. That being said, i'd love to hear opinions about Perdition's Blade in this deck!
"What kind of conked up brain do you have?!?" - Norbert Beaver
"The best kind!" - Dagget Beaver
Words to live by.
And if I could toss my hat into the ring for the Sap Vs Assassinate debate:
Rogue has been my #1 hero since I got into the beta back when it was closed (Back when the rogue's hero power either gave you a weapon or buffed your current one) and I've bounced back and forth from Sap to Assassinate but I've always come back to Sap. Whether its bouncing a card you simply can't deal with right away, or putting you in position to win a game, it just does so much more than Assassinate. Having played other card games (I.e. Magic the Gathering) where Tempo is a much more dominate part of the meta, I simply cannot overstate the power of bounce (returning a creature to its owner's hand) so much more than straight out kill.
The part that people seem to forget about bounce spells is this: For example your opponent spends 4 mana on a Chillwind Yeti on turn 4, and the next turn you send it back to their hand. That requires them to spend yet another turn spending 4 out of their 5 mana in recasting him. When it comes to tempo, that's huge. Setting your opponent back a turn while only costing you 2 mana (realistically allowing you to do something else to advance your board position on top of it) can sometimes be just enough to put the game just out of reach for your opponent. This is why I lean towards Sap.
Personally (and this is just my preference when it comes to building decks), I find myself replacing Assassinate with The Black Knight (which I know has been talked about) and/or Big Game Hunter. I especially love Big Game Hunter in combination with Cold Blood since its really a play your opponent simply can't play around.
This is just one Rogue's opinion, but I hope I was informative!
"What kind of conked up brain do you have?!?" - Norbert Beaver
"The best kind!" - Dagget Beaver
Words to live by.
Perdition's is one of the best tempo cards in the game. A weapon with an SI:7 battlecry is just too good. You can kill 2 weenies in 1 turn when playing vs aggro and killing a 3/2 with the battlecry is like healing yourself for 3. Turn 2 coin + perdition's can also kill a pagle if you want to. For now I don't use it in my deck but I might consider replacing a loot hoarder or a harvest golem with it when I start facing shieldbearer warlocks.
Assassin's blade gives much more value than perdition's but it's too slow for a midrange tempo deck. Especially when playing against aggro, turn 5 assassin's blade is just bad and you wouldn't want to hit minions with your face in the later turns because you're probably almost dead by then.
This is the variant deck that I am running. I don't have tinkmaster or black knight so I think I added in assasinate x2, should i swap one of these for another sap instead? And I havent used spiteful smith yet and have had many close matches so I subd him with a shadowstep which I feel is less situational and has more versatility when getting in the tougher/closer fights. How do you all feel about this?
Assassinate seems very out of place in your deck. Why not run 2x Ironbeak Owl & +1 Sap to compensate for the legendary removal cards you lack? Again, this deck is all about tempo and gaining advantage on your opponent that way.
As a note, I am currently in LOVE with Sap - it's awesome when a Druid drops 2x innervate to play a Chillwind Yeti and .. Sap happens. Freezing Trap is slightly better but I can't get myself to play the scumbag class.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
ok sounds good ill try that out. Is there anything that would be more valuable ability wise like a betrayal or something to sub for one of the owls? Or its better to have the extra silence?
Until you run a Tinkmaster Overspark I would recommend you keep the extra silences. Shadowstep doesn't really fit the deck either. If you have it in there to combo Leeroy Jenkins consider adding another Cold Blood instead. That's 6 mana for about the same damage you'd get out of leeroy + coldblood + shadowstep + leeroy again and you can pull it off turn 6 instead of waiting for turn 10.
For reference, here's my tempo mid-range rogue:
Once you survive the early/mid-game versus aggressive decks, it's a breeze mid-game onward. Conversely, versus control decks, you have the ability to fill up the board quick and do little pokes of high damage with minions the opponent will generally have trouble dealing with, thus giving you a tempo advantage and hopefully the win.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
I dont think van gets as much love as he should. Opponent has to immediately deal with him. Which is always valuable.
why the senjin, cairn, smith, it looks like with cold blood and leeroy and dark irons you would rather have the hasty commanders or something else that synergizes with your mid range kill time
Sen'jin Shieldmasta is in the deck for consistent defense vs aggro; it's more reliable than Defender of Argus in a pinch. Cairne Bloodhoof is one of the best mid-range cards in the game and possibly the best 6 drop in the game. No reason to not play it in a mid-range deck. I personally ran a very similar deck and have moved over to this; before I was running Cairne Bloodhoof AND a Sen'jin Shieldmasta but felt I needed the removal more:
The big changes are the bigger late game finishers and I did make the change of replacing the Dark Iron Dwarf for 2x Argent Commander. Since this deck focuses on the midgame, I've found that more often than not, by turn 4, you don't have enough board control THROUGH MINIONS to have a target to buff. Because of this, I am looking at changing the Argent Squire out for something a bit more aggressive, maybe a Leper Gnome so you retain the comboability of the squire but gain the 4 damage it provides... that being said, I am a bit torn because they make great DoA targets, especially if you have 2 in play or are dropping them turn 6. I made the changes above because I found myself losing to really late game decks (ie: Healadin and Handlock, specifically). I find this to be a bit more consistent but that may be because of my play style - seeing a rise to about 73% win rate though the sample size is relatively small (only 20 games, 7 of them were play testing with a friend).
Note: also considering replacing the Cold Blood with Perdition's Blade due to a fellow Rogue player's recommendation - his logic was that you gain the +4 damage as a finisher AND gain an additional 2 damage, it combos with Blade Flurry but it does cost 2 more mana.
As a side note/funny story, a Mwarlock player decided to go for face and left me with both Azure Drakes in play with 26 hp. I dropped a Cold Blood + Bloodmage Thalnos and did 14 damage with Eviscerate followed by the finish with the drakes. Made me smile. This deck, both iterations, has tremendous burst capability - something I thought I'd lost when moving to the mid-range deck, granted this is and probably will continue to be an edge case.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
Hey all,
I've been playing this deck (Well, at least a budget version of the deck since my only 3 Legendaries are Leeroy Jenkins, The Black Knight and Nat Pagle) and I've made a few tweaks to the list and its been working out amazingly for me!
MVP of the deck is definitely Perdition's Blade It's the epitome of of versatility and since the deck is already running a Spiteful Smith that only makes it that much better. I wholeheartedly think it deserves strong consideration for the DKMR build!
"What kind of conked up brain do you have?!?" - Norbert Beaver
"The best kind!" - Dagget Beaver
Words to live by.
I like perditions blade also. But only when I am expecting rushes on the ladder.
What are you guys going to be replacing Tinkmaster with? Was thinking either a silence minion or the black knight... Already running 1x sap. Thoughts?
Sap always nice in many ways, some minions are just bulky, but I was rolling with an owl and it was very helpful.
Blade Flurry, Ironbeak Owl or Sap seem to be the top contenders in my mind. I think on balance I prefer a second sap, with a second blade blurry coming pretty close. The second sap allows you to use one for early tempo advantage (yeti removal), and still have a backup for finisher.
I like the PB instead of Cold Blood.
Thoughts on including Cairne somehow (now that tink has been nerfed)? I don't really want to give up an Argent Commander, but I feel like Cairne is basically too good not to run.
Why does he need to be replaced? Is there an incoming nerf?
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
Yeah, changed Tink to 3/3 and 'random minion' goes to 1/1 or 5/5 rather than targeted.
I feel like Spellbreaker is a decent replacement for Tink after changes. Although not as comboable as Ironbeak Owl, he has pretty significant body (with the only 4's in such deck being Argus). Also fits blood elf rogue theme, not to mention awesome-sounding "your magic shall not save you".
Yeah, that's a pretty cool idea. Helps fill out the mana curve too.