Hearthpwn

Quote from Mattijsken >>

My guess is that there's a big difference between knowing (possible) tech cards and actually using them?

I don't know man, be the change you want to see in the world, i guess? 

 

 "One man can only do so much"

Quote from CatalystCrypt >>

Hi, my name is Bomb Warrior. Everyone hated me when I was in the meta for 5 days. Now this is my friend, Token Druid. Token Druid is a stupid aggro deck, like me. Everyone hates us because we SMOrc. Token Druid would like to talk to you:

"Hi. You asked me if there are enough board clears/removal. I have been fucked to many times by warrior with Warpath, Brawl, Omega Devastator, Execute, Dr. Boom's hero powers, and Dyn-o-matic. You hate me. Sure I'm fine with that. I bet you hated Odd Paladin, Undertaker Hunter, Pre-nerf Quest Rogue, Spell Hunter, OTK Priest, and pretty much every deck with >50% winrate. I would say go to the salt thread but I'm not one of those people."

Deal with it mate. Or just play any control deck.

 So you say we shouldn't deal with the problem and just play Control Warrior. I hope you are not serious.

Quote from Rkaah >>

@ OP.

You are asking why people are okay with this when YOU think it's an issue. IDK how long you have been playing this game, but I have.. along with many others.. been playing since Beta. I can promise you, this deck, like all decks comes and goes. It isn't a big deal. At this point it is near impossible for Hearthstone to create content and still keep all classes relevant in each meta cycle. Right now it's Druids turn. Either play Druid, counter druid, or wait for meta to shift. Don't like that? You probably shouldn't be playing a CCG.

Enjoy everyone else. I'm having a lot of fun trying all sorts of decks, regardless of win/loss.

 I'm not the only one. I created this tread when is saw many others feeling the same way i did. I read that you have been around for a long time, then you should know why thing like this goes out of control. Do i have to remind you of decks in the past? All i'm saying i that if we can prevent history from repeating itself, the game can become even better.

Quote from episode63 >>

Well, what is Druid going to do otherwise? They gutted combo then they gutted ramp. Do you want Druid to just flat out suck? Like, I get it, tokens and sticky minions are annoying. But again, what else are they going to do? They made it so Druid sucks otherwise, so tokens it is. And lets not imagine this is a recent "problem" token druid has been a thing since the dawn of Hearthstone. It's often complained about early in expansions because everyone is playing the greediest decks, which obviously aggressive decks and sticky minion decks punish. This is not new, at all. I guess that's why I'm defending token druid (and I don't even play it, I have no vested interest in defending it, I just don't want to see Druid disappear for another expansion).

 I will tell you.

Token Druid is an deck archetype that has been around for a very long time, it's part of the class identity. What i'm trying to say is that the deck gets away with thing it shouldn't. Maybe a once per turn clause on spells like Savage Roar and Bloodlust is the way to prevent high extremely high burst damage in 1 Turn? Maybe make Soul of the Forest only give the Deathrattle to less minions could also help to turn down the power of the archetype without destroying it completely? I want the deck to still be around, just turned down in power to encourage people to play different decks.

Token Druid is not the only way to play Druid. Heal Druid is very new and is a deck i could see getting more support in the future. I have also seen some Malygos Druid decks running around. Like many people are saying, the expansion is still pretty new, so another Druid deck type might be right in front of us, but we don't see it.

Quote from yeah2see >>

Ranking up with Token Druid is easy (not to mention super fast), the deck itself is easy to play as well as dirt cheap to assemble.

And just like that.. you have a winner.

 That is also a problem with the deck, it rewards the user way to much. When a deck gets to this point, something is wrong.

Quote from Horkinger >>

Quote from RavenSunHP >>

Another interesting question is: why is nobody complaining of Rogue?

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/classarchetype-distribution-data-reaper-report/

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/vs-power-rankings-data-reaper-report/

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/

Both Lackey Rogue and Token Druid are top tier, and have only few unfavourable matchups, but Rogue seems to be much more frequent in the meta.

So why Druid only?

I am pretty certain the reason is because he lost to Druid and not to Rogue.

@topic:Firstly, I am aware that some decks or cards need fixing and I am also fine with almost all nerfs Blizzard carried out, even if I thought they where superfluous. And I can absolutely understand where all these nerf proposals come from. I am not immune to rage inducing losses against decks I hate and I more than once called my opponents cheap netdecking brainless whatevers. In particular, when I try to make a new deck idea work and get beaten over and over again.

But I know that it is inavitable that there are Tier 1 decks. And they are Tier 1 for the exact reason that they are better than other decks. So after a short time I calm down and try to improve the deck or dismiss it. But the reason I try to build a deck is that I want to win with it, i.e. in best case I create myself a Tier 1 deck.

I mean that is likely the goal of most deckbuilders. And therefore I think that most complaints that another deck is unbeatable are just a different way of saying "I want to win myself", otherwise there would be no reason to complain. So in the end, the complaint is merely that the own deck doesn't have the Tier 1 place of the hated deck.

 I am thankful that you understand what this tread is about. I believe Token Druid is one of the decks that needs a fix before it goes out of hand. I would love to see a game with multiple Tier 1 Decks battling it out like rock, paper, scissors. I think that would be good for the game.  

Quote from willislau222 >>

Dragonmaw Scorcher

Wild Pyromancer

 If it was that easy why is Token Druid at close to 60% Win rate? 

Quote from Fog_za >>

Quote from Eddan >>

Quote from Fog_za >>

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 Exactly.  AOE isn't the answer to everything.

 

Quote from Fog_za >>

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 Exactly.  AOE isn't the answer to everything.

 

Quote from Fog_za >>

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 Exactly.  AOE isn't the answer to everything.

 What is it then? Taking more than 15 damage for leaving a few weak minions on board is okay?

 The point is if you can field minions and trade, using something like consecration or fan of knives only occasionally, then you can win games. I tried out token druid, turns out rogues (who traditionally suck against wide boards) can often deal with your two minions on turn 2 and start fielding threats before you. Once they generate a source of damage to put pressure on you, then it's very tough to come back. Same goes for murlocs, or paladins. Sure, a druid can draw the perfect opener and consolidate their board, it's gonna happen. But if you sit back and do nothing, then they will hit soul of the forest at some point and you'll die. Unlike older versions of aggro druid, they don't ramp, and they don't draw as much, and they have very little defence.

 Not all classes can do this at the same time. If something does not change in the near future, people will only play classes and decks that can do just that. It takes away diversity. 

Quote from BlackcurseLT >>

Quote from Eddan >>

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

because it has clear and strong counters in the meta. therefore there's nothing wrong with it. 

it would only be a problem, if it couldn't be countered. there are a few very strong counters to it at moment.

Mech Paladin and Carpet Zoo being the most obvious. 

 If it's not a problem, why do people complain about the deck then? A meta game centered around what beats and does not beat one deck is not good for the game. 

 but it has been like this since the beginning of the game. some decks are specially built to beat other decks, then other decks arise to beat those new decks and it goes like this until the rotation. when a deck becomes too prevalent, people will start countering it, then if the counter becomes too prevalent, people will come up with a counter to the counter and so on. its a vicious circle, and its basically the whole concept of this game. coming up with counters to the meta. get used to it, or move to another card game that doesnt have this. i doubt you'll find one.

 What i'm trying to say is that that could be the reason why history always repeat itself. Preventing this cycle from continuing could help the game a great deal.

Quote from hillandder >>

Token druid keep the meta heathy, believe me, will be hunterstone with 50 matches in a row vs only hunters if not exists fast decks like this one to keep in check, controls don't have a chance vs endless 7/7's and 5/5's rush + 10 manas hero and there is no reliable combos like Exodia mage or Mecha'Thun decks anymore.

 I can see where you are coming from, but what if the deck itself isn't healthy? Is it worth it? 

Quote from endlesstides >>

Quote from RavenSunHP >>

Another interesting question is: why is nobody complaining of Rogue?

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/classarchetype-distribution-data-reaper-report/

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/vs-power-rankings-data-reaper-report/

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/

Both Lackey Rogue and Token Druid are top tier, and have only few unfavourable matchups, but Rogue seems to be much more frequent in the meta.

So why Druid only?

 Lackey Rogue? Never had a problem with that deck to be honest. Mind you, I don't have a problem with Token Druid either. The next 'New Hotness' will be along soon, then you can all bitch about that instead. 

 Good for you then. I just hope not too many people share the same mindset. 

Quote from RavenSunHP >>

Another interesting question is: why is nobody complaining of Rogue?

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/classarchetype-distribution-data-reaper-report/

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/vs-power-rankings-data-reaper-report/

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/

Both Lackey Rogue and Token Druid are top tier, and have only few unfavourable matchups, but Rogue seems to be much more frequent in the meta.

So why Druid only?

Well this thread was supposed to be about Token Druid and what the deck could do with small resources . Lackey Rogue is in a similar situation. 

Quote from Fog_za >>

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 Exactly.  AOE isn't the answer to everything.

Quote from Fog_za >>

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 Exactly.  AOE isn't the answer to everything.

Quote from Fog_za >>

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Funniest thing is that the most consistent counter to token druid doesn't run a single board clear.

Oh well, see you in a few days when you've found a new scapegoat to blame your lack of intelligence on, OP.

 Exactly.  AOE isn't the answer to everything.

 What is it then? Taking more than 15 damage for leaving a few weak minions on board is okay?

Quote from let4be >>

Savage Roar should be HOFed and this stupid twin spell for 8 nerfed into oblivion removing twin from this shit and adding twin to healing instead. Solves most of problems with token druid

 I would have rather added something like an once per turn clause on Savage Roar, to tun down the damage potential, same with similar spells. Forest Aid could possible be 9 Mana because of what you get from the spell, and that you can use it again. Maybe make Power of the Wild cost 3 Mana. Bloodlust could also be balanced if it cost 6 Mana.

The bombs from Bomb Warrior could maybe deal you 3 damage instead of 5?

Conjurer's Calling could be 4 Mana, to prevent double Giant early.

DR Boom Mad Genius needs a turn down too, 5 armor when played, add random mech to hand instead of discover, gain 5 armor instead of 7 and the first Mech you play have Rush.

These are some of the changed i would like to see in the future. 

It seams my efforts to reach out has been in vain, all i can say is that i'm disappointed in many people that don't seam to understand. Such a shame.