I really don't understand what people expect from card games or why some even play them, the experience is literally to play the same thing forever, it's chess, but 2.0, flashy, with some variance built-in. The only things that change is that now the average player is better and card pool is bigger, more powerful and more complex.
Also, no control decks, The Demon Seed is way too powerful for any deck that is not constantly applying pressure to it, They hit really hard, draws really fast and completes the quest just as fast.
You mean "no fatigue decks." There are control decks, and Questlock is actually one of them.
Unless you have some other word for a deck that strives to keep the opponent's minions clear and your face healed until you can achieve inevitability. Back in my day, we called that "control." Some people like to pretend it's really combo, but that's a load of hogwash. Finishing a questline is not a combo; it's just a win condition, something control decks should be required to have instead of relying on attrition and fatigue.
Questlock isnt a control deck, it is a combo deck and I'm not refering to fatigue or draw-go decks, but decks that aim to control and stall enough to play their game ending card, stuff like C'thun, the other old gods, Priest Quest, even that silly boar. Questlock will simply speedrun drawing through it's entire deck and completing the Quest, there is no play around that.
How the hell are you supposed to complete the quest and with QuestPriest if Questlock has it's effect online and kicking with fatigue by turn 8?
I really don't understand what people expect from card games or why some even play them, the experience is literally to play the same thing forever, it's chess, but 2.0, flashy, with some variance built-in. The only things that change is that now the average player is better and card pool is bigger, more powerful and more complex.
Also, no control decks, The Demon Seed is way too powerful for any deck that is not constantly applying pressure to it, They hit really hard, draws really fast and completes the quest just as fast.
You mean "no fatigue decks." There are control decks, and Questlock is actually one of them.
Unless you have some other word for a deck that strives to keep the opponent's minions clear and your face healed until you can achieve inevitability. Back in my day, we called that "control." Some people like to pretend it's really combo, but that's a load of hogwash. Finishing a questline is not a combo; it's just a win condition, something control decks should be required to have instead of relying on attrition and fatigue.
Questlock isnt a control deck, it is a combo deck and I'm not refering to fatigue or draw-go decks, but decks that aim to control and stall enough to play their game ending card, stuff like C'thun, the other old gods, Priest Quest, even that silly boar. Questlock will simply speedrun drawing through it's entire deck and completing the Quest, there is no play around that.
How the hell are you supposed to complete the quest and with QuestPriest if Questlock has it's effect online and kicking with fatigue by turn 8?
This isn’t right at all. Maybe old D6 fatigue warlock, but the best version of warlock with the quest now is control handlock. Gnolls, flesh giants, Anatheron, bristleback boars are control pieces, this deck is usually lethal with battlegrounds battlemaster on turn 7 or 8 after clearing the board and dropping two free 8/8s. The quest is mostly for discounts to flesh giants or fatigue damage in a control v control or mirror. The goal is not to reach fatigue as fast as possible.
I really don't understand what people expect from card games or why some even play them, the experience is literally to play the same thing forever, it's chess, but 2.0, flashy, with some variance built-in. The only things that change is that now the average player is better and card pool is bigger, more powerful and more complex.
Also, no control decks, The Demon Seed is way too powerful for any deck that is not constantly applying pressure to it, They hit really hard, draws really fast and completes the quest just as fast.
You mean "no fatigue decks." There are control decks, and Questlock is actually one of them.
Unless you have some other word for a deck that strives to keep the opponent's minions clear and your face healed until you can achieve inevitability. Back in my day, we called that "control." Some people like to pretend it's really combo, but that's a load of hogwash. Finishing a questline is not a combo; it's just a win condition, something control decks should be required to have instead of relying on attrition and fatigue.
Questlock isnt a control deck, it is a combo deck and I'm not refering to fatigue or draw-go decks, but decks that aim to control and stall enough to play their game ending card, stuff like C'thun, the other old gods, Priest Quest, even that silly boar. Questlock will simply speedrun drawing through it's entire deck and completing the Quest, there is no play around that.
How the hell are you supposed to complete the quest and with QuestPriest if Questlock has it's effect online and kicking with fatigue by turn 8?
Honestly the line between control and combo can seem blurry at times. I have been playing a lot of Bolner OTK, since it rotates soon, and it often feels more like a control deck then a combo. Yes, obviously the full OTK is a combo finish, but I feel like it makes up only 50% of my wins. In other cases, just the 12 damage burst from Yshaarj can finish, so can repeatedly freezing a large board as I pound face. The combo is only needed against control decks, like druid with 50+ armor and health, or combo decks that I need to move fast against, thus prioritize draw over control. Those match ups are the ones that you will see me use windchill on a totem, just to draw more.
As for quest lock, I feel like it falls more on the combo side of things. That is mainly because of one thing: You draw your whole deck as fast as possible. It reminds me of the last combo deck I really enjoyed, with was Shiv' Holy Wrath Paladin. The idea is the same, don't die as you draw your whole deck, then win. Unlike my Paladin deck, quest lock does run an alternative win con with windfury flesh giants, so maybe that is the difference? A combo deck is one where the only path to victory is the combo? The quest victory is just so easily accomplished that it feels unfun to play against, imo. Perhaps that is just an effect of it looming on their side of the field from turn one.
This isn’t right at all. Maybe old D6 fatigue warlock, but the best version of warlock with the quest now is control handlock. Gnolls, flesh giants, Anatheron, bristleback boars are control pieces, this deck is usually lethal with battlegrounds battlemaster on turn 7 or 8 after clearing the board and dropping two free 8/8s. The quest is mostly for discounts to flesh giants or fatigue damage in a control v control or mirror. The goal is not to reach fatigue as fast as possible.
You missed the point entirely, not only this current existing deck can easily just shift gear to focus on Quest shanenigans, but one can simply choose to return to a more TurboQuest centric deck if big flashy wincon control deck becomes popular, killing it.
Honestly the line between control and combo can seem blurry at times. I have been playing a lot of Bolner OTK, since it rotates soon, and it often feels more like a control deck then a combo. Yes, obviously the full OTK is a combo finish, but I feel like it makes up only 50% of my wins. In other cases, just the 12 damage burst from Yshaarj can finish, so can repeatedly freezing a large board as I pound face. The combo is only needed against control decks, like druid with 50+ armor and health, or combo decks that I need to move fast against, thus prioritize draw over control. Those match ups are the ones that you will see me use windchill on a totem, just to draw more.
As for quest lock, I feel like it falls more on the combo side of things. That is mainly because of one thing: You draw your whole deck as fast as possible. It reminds me of the last combo deck I really enjoyed, with was Shiv' Holy Wrath Paladin. The idea is the same, don't die as you draw your whole deck, then win. Unlike my Paladin deck, quest lock does run an alternative win con with windfury flesh giants, so maybe that is the difference? A combo deck is one where the only path to victory is the combo? The quest victory is just so easily accomplished that it feels unfun to play against, imo. Perhaps that is just an effect of it looming on their side of the field from turn one.
Precisely, The Demon Seed, unlike all other quests, is an autonomous card, you don't need to build a deck around it or play any differently. It's a self-sustaining engine, you do your plays like normal and be rewarded with quest progress, then, keep doing your plays like normal to use the effects of the reward. You can slap it in ANY warlock deck, from "Really don't care about it" to specialized builds and it will be effective to some degree.
Dragons available atm doesn’t justify to build a dragon deck to play Kazakusan, and I don’t think games will last enough to justify playing Lady Prestor to get him via RNG
New Onyxia can see play in slower Druid decks, ramp will like it to turn the tables
I really liked new cards to give a push to Quest Hunter, but for face hunter I’m still thinking how to make the deck faster to abuse new draw engine
Machinegun Dragon for mage is too slow for current meta, Mozaki does better what he intends to do
I can be wrong, but overall I’m kinda disappointed with mini-set, the meta will tend to be the same with little to no changes
Dragons available atm doesn’t justify to build a dragon deck to play Kazakusan
Right now, I think you don’t build a dragon deck with kazakusan… you build a kazakusan deck with Druid. Ramp and draw kazakusan as soon as possible, play him asap and kill with treasures before your opponent comes online. This will probably change as meta settles, but that’s the fun of early meta.
AIGHT; here it is ! My hidden Secret Alterac Obliterator, Destroyer, easy Peazy lemon Squeezy Legend Conqueror.
This is probably the first time I reveal my deck on Hearthpwn, but I don't take Ladder that seriously anymore. So ya, go Nuts and fist some Tree Huggers for me ya'll, lol.
Fairly sure the point of this miniset isn't to shake the meta, but rather to provide fuel for the post-rotation times. And if you look at what rotates, might not be enough.
As for the semantics, I think the meaning of term of control changes based on the context. Galvangar warrior is a control deck, even tho it has an 'otk' finisher, same for Bolner Shaman. They win aggro matchups without relying on the finisher, while Mozaki for example will still have to combo out or die.
I really don't understand your point @jjSawry. They always have a lot of cards to design in every expansion and most of them are always pack fillers that will never see a single play, sometimes these cards are so bad that are even unplayable in the area (and another big question is who is still playing arena, for sure not many).
Now, they really need the mini set to have fuel? and customers have to pay another 15 € after the expansion? They need a far better cards design and far better ideas.
I really don't understand your point @jjSawry. They always have a lot of cards to design in every expansion and most of them are always pack fillers that will never see a single play, sometimes these cards are so bad that are even unplayable in the area (and another big question is who is still playing arena, for sure not many).
Now, they really need the mini set to have fuel? and customers have to pay another 15 € after the expansion? They need a far better cards design and far better ideas.
its thery job, they need to make as much $$$$ as they can
expansion >>>> nerf >>> nerf>>>> miniset>>>> nerf >>>>> expansion the more the meta change the more the dust is spend
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"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
You mean "no fatigue decks." There are control decks, and Questlock is actually one of them.
Questlock is either a combo deck or a midrange high roll deck, no version of questlock is control.
Any actual combo the deck creates can be done without the Questline, though. So saying it's a combo deck because of the Questline is wrong. (Unless you are confusing "combo" with "win condition," in which case there's no point continuing this conversation until you fix your vocabulary.)
And no, it's not a midrange deck. It focuses primarily on removal and life gain, playing very few minions until later in the game. Sometimes it can get out an early giant or gnoll, but that does not make it midrange. Many control decks have ways to cheese out an early big boy.
I think the main problem here is that people just haven't grasped that control is faster now. A lot of characteristics that are commonly associated with control aren't necessarily a part of the definition of control -- they just happened to arise in a lot of control decks due to the way the game was built. But if you educate yourself about what a control deck actually is, you'll see that they do still exist, and some of them are quite strong.
So Kazakusan ended up much stronger than everyone initially thought, good to know. Love when the game gets unpredictable like this. Its not gonna be popular on the climb to legend in a week or so, but it will certainly see play at legend where the meta is usually slower.
Just got ez legend with spell-based token druid, Scale of Onyxia is the GOAT. Quest hunter got way better too, good to see another hunter deck finally being played for once.
Fairly sure the point of this miniset isn't to shake the meta, but rather to provide fuel for the post-rotation times. And if you look at what rotates, might not be enough.
What do you mean? Only Shaman doesnt give a shit about rotation, every other class is changing a lot. Questlock might not even be played cuz the fatigue dmg is the plan B, discounting Flesh Giants is way more significant and it is rotating.
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Great, Burn Druid is a thing now...
Malygos Moonfire was a thing in the day... Glade Druid has something different to play now.
Anyways, I'm already seeing Warlock playing Tickatus and Altar of Fire to counter it.
Questlock isnt a control deck, it is a combo deck and I'm not refering to fatigue or draw-go decks, but decks that aim to control and stall enough to play their game ending card, stuff like C'thun, the other old gods, Priest Quest, even that silly boar. Questlock will simply speedrun drawing through it's entire deck and completing the Quest, there is no play around that.
How the hell are you supposed to complete the quest and with QuestPriest if Questlock has it's effect online and kicking with fatigue by turn 8?
This isn’t right at all. Maybe old D6 fatigue warlock, but the best version of warlock with the quest now is control handlock. Gnolls, flesh giants, Anatheron, bristleback boars are control pieces, this deck is usually lethal with battlegrounds battlemaster on turn 7 or 8 after clearing the board and dropping two free 8/8s. The quest is mostly for discounts to flesh giants or fatigue damage in a control v control or mirror. The goal is not to reach fatigue as fast as possible.
Honestly the line between control and combo can seem blurry at times. I have been playing a lot of Bolner OTK, since it rotates soon, and it often feels more like a control deck then a combo. Yes, obviously the full OTK is a combo finish, but I feel like it makes up only 50% of my wins. In other cases, just the 12 damage burst from Yshaarj can finish, so can repeatedly freezing a large board as I pound face. The combo is only needed against control decks, like druid with 50+ armor and health, or combo decks that I need to move fast against, thus prioritize draw over control. Those match ups are the ones that you will see me use windchill on a totem, just to draw more.
As for quest lock, I feel like it falls more on the combo side of things. That is mainly because of one thing: You draw your whole deck as fast as possible. It reminds me of the last combo deck I really enjoyed, with was Shiv' Holy Wrath Paladin. The idea is the same, don't die as you draw your whole deck, then win. Unlike my Paladin deck, quest lock does run an alternative win con with windfury flesh giants, so maybe that is the difference? A combo deck is one where the only path to victory is the combo? The quest victory is just so easily accomplished that it feels unfun to play against, imo. Perhaps that is just an effect of it looming on their side of the field from turn one.
Questlock is either a combo deck or a midrange high roll deck, no version of questlock is control.
No, no more Druidstone, pls. Malygos Druid was fair deck comparing to this, Malygos costed 9 mana and Kazakusan should cost the same at least.
You missed the point entirely, not only this current existing deck can easily just shift gear to focus on Quest shanenigans, but one can simply choose to return to a more TurboQuest centric deck if big flashy wincon control deck becomes popular, killing it.
Precisely, The Demon Seed, unlike all other quests, is an autonomous card, you don't need to build a deck around it or play any differently. It's a self-sustaining engine, you do your plays like normal and be rewarded with quest progress, then, keep doing your plays like normal to use the effects of the reward. You can slap it in ANY warlock deck, from "Really don't care about it" to specialized builds and it will be effective to some degree.
Not really. You don't play it outside specialized quest deck. It's just too slow by itself.
I imagine it'll take maybe 3 to 4 days before we actually see any of the new cards in competitively viable decks.
Dragons available atm doesn’t justify to build a dragon deck to play Kazakusan, and I don’t think games will last enough to justify playing Lady Prestor to get him via RNG
New Onyxia can see play in slower Druid decks, ramp will like it to turn the tables
I really liked new cards to give a push to Quest Hunter, but for face hunter I’m still thinking how to make the deck faster to abuse new draw engine
Machinegun Dragon for mage is too slow for current meta, Mozaki does better what he intends to do
I can be wrong, but overall I’m kinda disappointed with mini-set, the meta will tend to be the same with little to no changes
Right now, I think you don’t build a dragon deck with kazakusan… you build a kazakusan deck with Druid. Ramp and draw kazakusan as soon as possible, play him asap and kill with treasures before your opponent comes online. This will probably change as meta settles, but that’s the fun of early meta.
The Fun of early Meta indeed, Ogremancer and Trogg say Hello. Bridge Paladin 15-2 Kazakusan Druid.
+
= Thanks, Bye.
Well, currently any decent agro deck wreck Ramp Druid.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1402894-dragonslayer-druids-nightmare-bridge-paladin
AIGHT; here it is ! My hidden Secret Alterac Obliterator, Destroyer, easy Peazy lemon Squeezy Legend Conqueror.
This is probably the first time I reveal my deck on Hearthpwn, but I don't take Ladder that seriously anymore. So ya, go Nuts and fist some Tree Huggers for me ya'll, lol.
Fairly sure the point of this miniset isn't to shake the meta, but rather to provide fuel for the post-rotation times. And if you look at what rotates, might not be enough.
As for the semantics, I think the meaning of term of control changes based on the context. Galvangar warrior is a control deck, even tho it has an 'otk' finisher, same for Bolner Shaman. They win aggro matchups without relying on the finisher, while Mozaki for example will still have to combo out or die.
I really don't understand your point @jjSawry. They always have a lot of cards to design in every expansion and most of them are always pack fillers that will never see a single play, sometimes these cards are so bad that are even unplayable in the area (and another big question is who is still playing arena, for sure not many).
Now, they really need the mini set to have fuel? and customers have to pay another 15 € after the expansion? They need a far better cards design and far better ideas.
its thery job, they need to make as much $$$$ as they can
expansion >>>> nerf >>> nerf>>>> miniset>>>> nerf >>>>> expansion the more the meta change the more the dust is spend
"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
Any actual combo the deck creates can be done without the Questline, though. So saying it's a combo deck because of the Questline is wrong. (Unless you are confusing "combo" with "win condition," in which case there's no point continuing this conversation until you fix your vocabulary.)
And no, it's not a midrange deck. It focuses primarily on removal and life gain, playing very few minions until later in the game. Sometimes it can get out an early giant or gnoll, but that does not make it midrange. Many control decks have ways to cheese out an early big boy.
I think the main problem here is that people just haven't grasped that control is faster now. A lot of characteristics that are commonly associated with control aren't necessarily a part of the definition of control -- they just happened to arise in a lot of control decks due to the way the game was built. But if you educate yourself about what a control deck actually is, you'll see that they do still exist, and some of them are quite strong.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
So Kazakusan ended up much stronger than everyone initially thought, good to know. Love when the game gets unpredictable like this. Its not gonna be popular on the climb to legend in a week or so, but it will certainly see play at legend where the meta is usually slower.
Just got ez legend with spell-based token druid, Scale of Onyxia is the GOAT. Quest hunter got way better too, good to see another hunter deck finally being played for once.
What do you mean? Only Shaman doesnt give a shit about rotation, every other class is changing a lot. Questlock might not even be played cuz the fatigue dmg is the plan B, discounting Flesh Giants is way more significant and it is rotating.