I mean, I don't play a lot of aggro, so I'm no expert, but my winrates with aggro are generally higher than when I play any deck where I actually think about my plays. So respectfully, I disagree. I roll face when I play aggro and still win a majority of my games. Is it possible they're all easy matchups, maybe. Is it likely, not really.
Mech hunter is still a thing in Standard as well. It might not be Tier 1, but it's close. And it's being as close to the mindless aggro crap of the past as it gets, what more do you want?
Mechs are not your cup of tea? Aggro overload shaman and murloc shaman are also tier 2. So is token druid. And maybe even Carpet Lock.
I really don't get the problem here. Just because there are no straight up face decks doesnt mean there is no aggro.
OP, unfortunately most people you can find on this site like to play "interesting" decks, and they don't mind how long each game lasts, because otherwise they wouldn't even invest time to look for fun decks to play on web. Aggro decks usually aren't "interesting" by most people's standard, because it relies on getting a solid early curve (usually a few standalone OP early-game cards) and your game plan is pretty much the same against every opponent.
If you play control, you will feel like your decisions matter more, and each game is different because you have different strategies against different opponent, which makes gameplay more interesting. Combo decks contain a lot of those decisions too, as often times you have to weigh the pros and cons of wasting one of your combo pieces to gain a higher chance of keeping you alive. However, I do agree that in a healthy meta, aggro decks are essential. Otherwise whoever has the greedier deck will be advantageous. That's not good either.
The current standard meta is okay in the sense that all of aggro (mech hunter, token druid, waggle pick rogue, overload shaman, murloc shaman, zoolock), control (control warrior, some shaman), combo (mana cyclone mage, summoner mage, holy wrath paladin, heal druid, nomi priest, rez priest), and mid-range decks (mid-range hunter, secret hunter, spirit rogue, bomb warrior, mech paly) are viable strategies. Of course some are at a high power level than others, but I would say it's pretty balanced overall.
I play standard, because i refuse to play wild, and i don't enjoy climbing the ladder, so control is my preferred playstyle. i don't look down on people that universally enjoy playing aggro and loathe long games i just assume they play on mobile.
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I think aggro is the most boring way to play hs. There's very little decision making involved. The choices you make rarely go past, "what's the most damage I can go face this turn." As long as you don't draw terribly or your opponent doesn't draw incredibly well you win. Combo, control, and occasionally mid-range decks are the only interesting decks to play imo. A card game should be about making calculated risk-benefit decisions, not slamming down as much damage as you can every turn and hoping your opponent doesn't have a good answer.
You probably aren't very good at aggro, because there's a LOT more to it than that.
What you've described is aggro in an easy matchup.
If we look at a control game in an easy matchup, it's similarly mindless.
2019 and there's still people saying aggro is "Hard" "involve making decision" bla bla bla...so funny how people had their egos ahead of the sad reality
Yet you can still encounter aggro decks at lower ranks, so they haven't all just autoplayed up to Legend. The only thing that gives the advantage to aggro players at lower ranks is they're naturally playing more proactively, so they can be favored in some ways. Also if you're playing a slower deck with a strong win condition, then obviously their gameplan is to win before you reach that, so the strategy is the same which may be why you perceive it to be mindless. On the other hand, (I think I heard it from a pro player) aggro mirrors involve a lot of decision making and are far from mindless. I guess you'll just have to play aggro to find out.
I think aggro is the most boring way to play hs. There's very little decision making involved. The choices you make rarely go past, "what's the most damage I can go face this turn." As long as you don't draw terribly or your opponent doesn't draw incredibly well you win. Combo, control, and occasionally mid-range decks are the only interesting decks to play imo. A card game should be about making calculated risk-benefit decisions, not slamming down as much damage as you can every turn and hoping your opponent doesn't have a good answer.
You probably aren't very good at aggro, because there's a LOT more to it than that.
What you've described is aggro in an easy matchup.
If we look at a control game in an easy matchup, it's similarly mindless.
2019 and there's still people saying aggro is "Hard" "involve making decision" bla bla bla...so funny how people had their egos ahead of the sad reality
Yet you can still encounter aggro decks at lower ranks, so they haven't all just autoplayed up to Legend. The only thing that gives the advantage to aggro players at lower ranks is they're naturally playing more proactively, so they can be favored in some ways. Also if you're playing a slower deck with a strong win condition, then obviously their gameplan is to win before you reach that, so the strategy is the same which may be why you perceive it to be mindless. On the other hand, (I think I heard it from a pro player) aggro mirrors involve a lot of decision making and are far from mindless. I guess you'll just have to play aggro to find out.
I would agree that aggro mirrors require a lot of decision making. I think the problem is that most of the important decisions happen in the first few turns, which means they are heavily impacted by you're early draw and as such more subject to rng. So it feels bad and like you have less freedom in making the decision, which naturally makes the decisions harder, but not more fun imo.
I think that the combo-ish rogue tastes more like an aggro deck, not in the traditional way but definitely more on the aggressive side. 10/10 cleef on turn 3 feels pretty angry to me.
I like control decks more than aggro but i hate control warrior (hmm i hate warrior :,D)... I think new cards will support aggro decks (zoo,murlock decks)
According to stats from HSmath, or somesuch YT chanel, can't remember the exact name, most people are control players. We have to realize that for the most part Combo decks are just control decks with more complex (or less, depends on how you look at it) wincondition up to a certain point. What would be more accurate is to simply deide the matchup into control and beatdown or agressor defender decks.
Most of aggro decks are not fun to play or fun to play against. Either they curve out or they lose. Since HS was designed to be a game you play for short amount of time it naturaly favors decks high on tempo. What brings high tempo? Qualitiy minions. What class has reoccuring quality minions? Hunter. Not a coincidence. And not a coincidence Hunter is top metadeck again (most played according to HStats).
I think aggro does not need to be made great again, we have enough aggresively minded decks out there already. What we need is less polarizing matchups.
According to stats from HSmath, or somesuch YT chanel, can't remember the exact name, most people are control players. We have to realize that for the most part Combo decks are just control decks with more complex (or less, depends on how you look at it) wincondition up to a certain point. What would be more accurate is to simply deide the matchup into control and beatdown or agressor defender decks.
Most of aggro decks are not fun to play or fun to play against. Either they curve out or they lose. Since HS was designed to be a game you play for short amount of time it naturaly favors decks high on tempo. What brings high tempo? Qualitiy minions. What class has reoccuring quality minions? Hunter. Not a coincidence. And not a coincidence Hunter is top metadeck again (most played according to HStats).
I think aggro does not need to be made great again, we have enough aggresively minded decks out there already. What we need is less polarizing matchups.
Combo and control decks only share the "stall the game" part of their gameplan but they are NOT the same thing (i actually get mad when i find,e.g., infinite shudderwok shaman labled as """"control"""" shaman)
There Is a difference between the 2 that Is significant enough to separate their archetypes:
Combo decks apply a "screw you,i win" mindset where they draw cards like it's nobody's buisness,get their otk whatever,play it and win
Control decks apply a "screw you,you're not winning" mindset where they do anything in their Power to kill the opponent's threats,heal up and survive. Some actually play winconditions like a decent chunck of burst damage (at most around 20) or big threats but still NONE of these Is a "screw you,i win" card and any deck can beat them even After said wincondition Is played
I disagree. Like you mentioned some control decks run a certain wincondition that is in fact a combo. Old Handlock had PO+Leeroy+Faceless combo for 20 dmg and that was how they won most of the time. Was it a combo deck then? not really. Or old Control warrior with Grom and Alex, but this wincondition mostly applied to control matchups. Aggro was beaten by simply surviving and sticking minions on board that couldn't have been removed by the limited aggro resources (in ideal world things like spiderbomb and deadly shot would not exist for this reason).
HS is very limited game compared to say Magic which is more complex and skill based. Again it's because both have different design philosophy. Magic is "serious balls to the wall" card game while HS is casual. Naturaly the borders between deck types will be mudied as a result.
I disagree. Like you mentioned some control decks run a certain wincondition that is in fact a combo. Old Handlock had PO+Leeroy+Faceless combo for 20 dmg and that was how they won most of the time. Was it a combo deck then? not really. Or old Control warrior with Grom and Alex, but this wincondition mostly applied to control matchups. Aggro was beaten by simply surviving and sticking minions on board that couldn't have been removed by the limited aggro resources (in ideal world things like spiderbomb and deadly shot would not exist for this reason).
HS is very limited game compared to say Magic which is more complex and skill based. Again it's because both have different design philosophy. Magic is "serious balls to the wall" card game while HS is casual. Naturaly the borders between deck types will be mudied as a result.
All right then,you wanna be be nitpicky I see
Well if you look at It this way,then yes, i was incorrect in saying combo since anything like PO+leeroy+faceless or any deck that runs cards that Need to be played together can be called combo
The right name would have been OTK and i'm Sorry but i thought It was widely accepted by the community as a synonym
And what if he want to play Standard?
I mean, I don't play a lot of aggro, so I'm no expert, but my winrates with aggro are generally higher than when I play any deck where I actually think about my plays. So respectfully, I disagree. I roll face when I play aggro and still win a majority of my games. Is it possible they're all easy matchups, maybe. Is it likely, not really.
If you are winning consistently with that strategy, they are easy matchups. Either that, or your opponents are not very skilled. Possibly both.
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Aggro is for the mindless matches that kids like to play and what aggro was made for.
Mech hunter is still a thing in Standard as well. It might not be Tier 1, but it's close. And it's being as close to the mindless aggro crap of the past as it gets, what more do you want?
Mechs are not your cup of tea? Aggro overload shaman and murloc shaman are also tier 2. So is token druid. And maybe even Carpet Lock.
I really don't get the problem here. Just because there are no straight up face decks doesnt mean there is no aggro.
I'll take your word for it. I still find aggro boring and neigh pointless to play unless you're trying to grind ranks.
OP, unfortunately most people you can find on this site like to play "interesting" decks, and they don't mind how long each game lasts, because otherwise they wouldn't even invest time to look for fun decks to play on web. Aggro decks usually aren't "interesting" by most people's standard, because it relies on getting a solid early curve (usually a few standalone OP early-game cards) and your game plan is pretty much the same against every opponent.
If you play control, you will feel like your decisions matter more, and each game is different because you have different strategies against different opponent, which makes gameplay more interesting. Combo decks contain a lot of those decisions too, as often times you have to weigh the pros and cons of wasting one of your combo pieces to gain a higher chance of keeping you alive. However, I do agree that in a healthy meta, aggro decks are essential. Otherwise whoever has the greedier deck will be advantageous. That's not good either.
The current standard meta is okay in the sense that all of aggro (mech hunter, token druid, waggle pick rogue, overload shaman, murloc shaman, zoolock), control (control warrior, some shaman), combo (mana cyclone mage, summoner mage, holy wrath paladin, heal druid, nomi priest, rez priest), and mid-range decks (mid-range hunter, secret hunter, spirit rogue, bomb warrior, mech paly) are viable strategies. Of course some are at a high power level than others, but I would say it's pretty balanced overall.
I play standard, because i refuse to play wild, and i don't enjoy climbing the ladder, so control is my preferred playstyle. i don't look down on people that universally enjoy playing aggro and loathe long games i just assume they play on mobile.
Those who are given more in life, must not cling to it, but risk it all at every moment!
Yet you can still encounter aggro decks at lower ranks, so they haven't all just autoplayed up to Legend. The only thing that gives the advantage to aggro players at lower ranks is they're naturally playing more proactively, so they can be favored in some ways. Also if you're playing a slower deck with a strong win condition, then obviously their gameplan is to win before you reach that, so the strategy is the same which may be why you perceive it to be mindless. On the other hand, (I think I heard it from a pro player) aggro mirrors involve a lot of decision making and are far from mindless. I guess you'll just have to play aggro to find out.
I would agree that aggro mirrors require a lot of decision making. I think the problem is that most of the important decisions happen in the first few turns, which means they are heavily impacted by you're early draw and as such more subject to rng. So it feels bad and like you have less freedom in making the decision, which naturally makes the decisions harder, but not more fun imo.
I think that the combo-ish rogue tastes more like an aggro deck, not in the traditional way but definitely more on the aggressive side. 10/10 cleef on turn 3 feels pretty angry to me.
I like control decks more than aggro but i hate control warrior (hmm i hate warrior :,D)... I think new cards will support aggro decks (zoo,murlock decks)
According to stats from HSmath, or somesuch YT chanel, can't remember the exact name, most people are control players. We have to realize that for the most part Combo decks are just control decks with more complex (or less, depends on how you look at it) wincondition up to a certain point. What would be more accurate is to simply deide the matchup into control and beatdown or agressor defender decks.
Most of aggro decks are not fun to play or fun to play against. Either they curve out or they lose. Since HS was designed to be a game you play for short amount of time it naturaly favors decks high on tempo. What brings high tempo? Qualitiy minions. What class has reoccuring quality minions? Hunter. Not a coincidence. And not a coincidence Hunter is top metadeck again (most played according to HStats).
I think aggro does not need to be made great again, we have enough aggresively minded decks out there already. What we need is less polarizing matchups.
Combo and control decks only share the "stall the game" part of their gameplan but they are NOT the same thing (i actually get mad when i find,e.g., infinite shudderwok shaman labled as """"control"""" shaman)
There Is a difference between the 2 that Is significant enough to separate their archetypes:
Combo decks apply a "screw you,i win" mindset where they draw cards like it's nobody's buisness,get their otk whatever,play it and win
Control decks apply a "screw you,you're not winning" mindset where they do anything in their Power to kill the opponent's threats,heal up and survive. Some actually play winconditions like a decent chunck of burst damage (at most around 20) or big threats but still NONE of these Is a "screw you,i win" card and any deck can beat them even After said wincondition Is played
I disagree. Like you mentioned some control decks run a certain wincondition that is in fact a combo. Old Handlock had PO+Leeroy+Faceless combo for 20 dmg and that was how they won most of the time. Was it a combo deck then? not really. Or old Control warrior with Grom and Alex, but this wincondition mostly applied to control matchups. Aggro was beaten by simply surviving and sticking minions on board that couldn't have been removed by the limited aggro resources (in ideal world things like spiderbomb and deadly shot would not exist for this reason).
HS is very limited game compared to say Magic which is more complex and skill based. Again it's because both have different design philosophy. Magic is "serious balls to the wall" card game while HS is casual. Naturaly the borders between deck types will be mudied as a result.
Aggro still to strong
All right then,you wanna be be nitpicky I see
Well if you look at It this way,then yes, i was incorrect in saying combo since anything like PO+leeroy+faceless or any deck that runs cards that Need to be played together can be called combo
The right name would have been OTK and i'm Sorry but i thought It was widely accepted by the community as a synonym
willd so full of aggro decks
then they should support aggro because HS is a Childrens Card Game :thinking:
Just kidding but my Comment is as stupid and mindless as yours :).
If you control warrior ok, most other decks played in standard are aggro if you define that as decks that mostly go for the face.
`Tempo` rogue mostly goes face,
Mech hunter
Aggro shaman
Murloc shaman
Token druid
Warlock Zoo
and than we have Mage + the occassional priest.