i dont have a problem losing against Patches per se, the problem is that all decks look the same this days. geez i sound like a grandpa or something lol
So, you're complaining about people net-decking? I agree that I don't like it, but this is far, faar from being a problem that only resonates in Hearthstone! Have you ever been to a Magic the Gathering tournament? Or hell, even a Yu-Gi-Oh one? People play pretty much a small variation of the same popular decks, and this is the formula for nearly every cardgame ever! if people see that Deck A or Playstyle A works a lot, and even manage to give some tournament-level-players a huge win-streak, of course they're gonna copy them! The thing is though - you can tech in cards to counter that, given that it's not hard to guess then what people are playing the most.
It is true that I wish more people built their own decks instead of netdecking, but its also very true that I have no business telling people how they should play and enjoy their game, or how to spend their money! My advice is to play Casual/Wild Casual, try out some decks, build ones you like and just have fun! sure, some people play the Meta-decks there too, but if you're bringing a deck they've got no clue what's in it, they will most likely play differently, or get surprised when you play "that one card they didn't expect to see."
To all the persons who say: bye bye, see you in april, etc...:
i've been playing from beggining and, this game has become bo-ring, just that. Its same boring stuff with diferent card names.
The random of getting better or worst draws, and "we try to keep you at 50% w/r" (Ben brode), make the game boring, im a legend player and i get rank 5 easy, then up 10 stars, and followed by a lose streak of 10, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? not happened to me only once. No make sense to get legend anymore, already have the card back.
And now what? where is the fun of hs? reached legend and what? play new decks because... fun? mm... but aggro decks crush fun decks... mm...
lol? for new players who wants to spent money the game is pretty nice and surprising: first YOLO YOGG, memorable moment... insane top decks... but for the old players who knows how to play the game correctly and seeing al the %? its a random permaboring game. Waste of time. :(
I still playing but just to do Quests and taking rank 5 for free infinite hs (if blizz dont downrate drops or invent something to kill free players). And if u need to get legend you dont need to spent any more money for legendaries. Just go with best aggro decks and play a lot of hours. At the end u will become legend if u wont get frustated like me.
Conclusion: A game is frustating ppl cause good draw ez win? where is the fun?? game = having fun. When no fun = not a game, just a frustation, or waste of time and dont even enjoing.
GL HF!
I really agree, i just wanna have som fun maybe try to make some fun not-tier1-decks and try them in casual, and there i meet all the same decks as ranked. I actually think it would be cool if you couldn't do quest or make gold in causal, making it a place to have fun and not to farm. just an idea though, many people would surely disagree
i dont have a problem losing against Patches per se, the problem is that all decks look the same this days. geez i sound like a grandpa or something lol
So, you're complaining about people net-decking?
Ummm. That's not what he just said, like.. at all!. He was complaining that all decks look pretty much the same. Not that all decks are netdecked.
They all look the same, because almost all decks (barring a few) utilise the same strongest well-known strategies (such as Southsea and Patches). Nothing to do with Netdecking to be honest... you don't need to netdeck to discover how powerful the Patches Package is.
i dont have a problem losing against Patches per se, the problem is that all decks look the same this days. geez i sound like a grandpa or something lol
While I understand the whole jade, pirate, highlander problematic on ladder, because it also wasn't fun for me anymore to play then.
There are new decks out there like big warrior, big mage, recruit mechanic in control warlock, spellhunter and more decks and this is just the beginning. I also think at the end on higher ladder ranks only a few decks will survive, but I couldn't disagree more about the statement that everything looks the same. I just hope at the end we don't come back to tempo rogue, jade druid and razakus till april which actually could possibly happen.
I have played this game since the beginning and this has become quite something else, the meta has never been so stale as the last few months and this just shows the lack of competence the design team possess. I do get that it might be hard to see what will become strong and not, but thing that baffels me is the Hearthstone team's lack of ability to interfere in time or at all. Just how long did it take to see the nerf for The Caverns Below ? That thing ruined the game for way too long before they intervened. Other archetypes too have been a nuance like pirates and jades. Well im tired of it and im not going to bother playing this game as long as patches remains the way he is. im out.
If you've been playing since the beginning and complain about the time it took to nerf the Rogue quest you're either senile or just looking for an excuse.
i dont have a problem losing against Patches per se, the problem is that all decks look the same this days. geez i sound like a grandpa or something lol
Team 5 disliked that class cards--and especially the evergreen ones--were so strong that deckbuilding became moot because most classes had loads of auto-includes.
So say you try to give strong class cards in expansions, but then you have 2 new problems: Either you miss on balance and a class or two dominates everything (cough pre-nerf KFT Jade Druid), or you succeed and have must-craft cards that are good in mostly 1 deck, which plays into the Blizzard money-grab narrative.
So the alternative is to make powerful neutrals, which I think they're committed to doing: Flappy Bird, Bonemare, Keleseth, Corridor Creeper, etc. And then the result is they pop up in many many meta decks and homogenize strategies across classes.
I honestly think this is one area where you have to pick your poison, and I expect they'll keep going on this way for a while.
i dont have a problem losing against Patches per se, the problem is that all decks look the same this days. geez i sound like a grandpa or something lol
While I understand the whole jade, pirate, highlander problematic on ladder, because it also wasn't fun for me anymore to play then.
There are new decks out there like big warrior, big mage, recruit mechanic in control warlock, spellhunter and more decks and this is just the beginning. I also think at the end on higher ladder ranks only a few decks will survive, but I couldn't disagree more about the statement that everything looks the same. I just hope at the end we don't come back to tempo rogue, jade druid and razakus till april which actually could possibly happen.
Maybe I'm projecting my own meaning on what he said, but I think there is something to be said here about decks looking the same.
Sure they are not all card-for-card the same, but they often utilise the same "package"
How many decks are currently running the Pirate Package? Or Bonemare? Or Corridor Creeper? How many likewise run Golakka Crawler? How many are running Eater of Secrets now? And how many decks being played are now secret-based ones?
For each of these, it's hardly a case of "just that one deck over there". For some of them, there are LOADS of decks that run it. So I can sort of understand why people think the meta is getting samey - when cards become pretty much must-includes.
I'm sort of a new player to Hearthstone, entering the game only at Un'Goro. I'd like to take a moment and discuss the game itself. Not the state of the game so much. For a better insight on my gaming habits, I come from Fantasy Flight Games LCGs (and to be precise mainly Conquest, which has already been cancelled).
At first I really loved the game and learning all that new stuff seemed like this game had some depth to it. But I've come to realize this is not a great competetive game. "Boohoo crybaby go away then". Yes, you're right in saying that but I want to have a discussion on WHY so many threads like this constantly pops up and "nerf this", "the game is broken" etc.
This game is absolutely gorgeus with a technical team ala Blizzard, and the playerbase is so vast I can always find a game in seconds. Game time is short, and everything seems solid and interesting on the surface. So we (competetive players) trick ourselves in wanting this game to be more. It has all the promise to be something huge! But it falls short. I've understood that the goal of the designers is having a close to 50% winrate with as many decks as possible. That is strike number one for me. I absolutely love a game where good players win +80% of the time. And when they lose, they can track a misplay during the game, not just a bad dice roll.
Hearthstone shows it's age in having a linear mana system and one card a turn drawing system, in addition having only one win condition (fatigue is clearly not supported enough, and imo it shouldn't because it's quite unfun). This leads to super draw dependant games where the one who gets a better start has such a huge upperhand that the outcome feels decided during the first two rounds. When aggro is also supported so much with the laddering system as is, it leads to a flooded aggro-ladder where luck of the draw is the main way to win. For me that is not enjoyable.
I still play daily, cause I'm addicted (lol) and I strive to come up with an original deck to rule them all! And I do enjoy the game to a degree for sure, but I hate that it's not what it could be :'(
So why don't I move on to another game? That's the question! I have no idea what that game is. I installed Gwent on my Xbox and I find that one much deeper than Hearthstone, but it's not yet available to mobile devices so there's that. I find Hearthstone to be such a Juggernaut in the industry that it takes away from the competition and there is less room for smaller games to rise against this behemoth. And that yet again makes me sad that this already so well established game is not what I want it to be!
Why I find these salt threads interesting, is the fact that we can actually learn from these. We can identify the problems and start innovating new systems. I am a board game enthusiast and a published board game designer (one children's game, but still!) so I take every notion into account and brew ideas that a good and enjoyable game needs. I have actually started prototyping a new competetive card game system already and while I think I don't have a great chance in ever getting through to the wide audience, I've still tried and put my ideas forward! :)
Patches? Have seen a lot of highlander priest, tempo mage, big warriors, zoo pallys, warlocks, spell hunters, dragon priests, tempo rogues and big/infinite druids on ladder. In the +-30 games i played after kobolds i might have seen patches only once or twice.
You should quit forever cause i dont think the meta will ever be as diverse as it is now. 7/9 classes seem to have viable decks, so...uh... bye?
*7/9 classes have a tempo deck with patches, the free 5/5, southsea captain and a bunch of other shit
Oh great!
Maybe youre playing a different ladder than me. Played about 15 games today, have seen patches once in a pirate/weapon rogue. Other decks i faced:
Spell hunter, token shaman, hybrid rogue (weapon,mill,faldorei, miracle stuff), recruit pally, tempo/secret mage, demonlock, dragon priest, big druid and the kolento oakheart warrior.
Well its a widely spread opinion that Patches is bad for this game...just look at deck lists....Hell even Priest plays southsea captain because this retarded designed 1 drop....
Reynad made a recent video in which he also complains about Pirate Body with creepers basically being in every deck and to some amount i agree that something is off if a highlander control deck utilises an aggro package with a 1 mana 1/1 charge and a 3 mana 3/3 standalone vanila.
I feel like blizzard made a potential mistake by nerfing War axe(should have moved to hall of fame as a 3/2 instead of a nerf imo) and small time buk..over this retarded onedrop legendary that is utilised in litteraly every deck in every class.
Also it has a high variance rng attached to it which just feels bad. Wasnt Yogg nerfed for that reason beeing a 10 drop? So im kinda confused why they let this go through.
I realy get green eyes if ill see spellhunters with patches package. imo outrotation of this 1 drop will have higher meta impact than 3 full card sets released.
i dont have a problem losing against Patches per se, the problem is that all decks look the same this days. geez i sound like a grandpa or something lol
HEY, do you have a problem with elderlypeople? Do you? Really? I can still kick your ass!
I'm sort of a new player to Hearthstone, entering the game only at Un'Goro. I'd like to take a moment and discuss the game itself. Not the state of the game so much. For a better insight on my gaming habits, I come from Fantasy Flight Games LCGs (and to be precise mainly Conquest, which has already been cancelled).
At first I really loved the game and learning all that new stuff seemed like this game had some depth to it. But I've come to realize this is not a great competetive game. "Boohoo crybaby go away then". Yes, you're right in saying that but I want to have a discussion on WHY so many threads like this constantly pops up and "nerf this", "the game is broken" etc.
This game is absolutely gorgeus with a technical team ala Blizzard, and the playerbase is so vast I can always find a game in seconds. Game time is short, and everything seems solid and interesting on the surface. So we (competetive players) trick ourselves in wanting this game to be more. It has all the promise to be something huge! But it falls short. I've understood that the goal of the designers is having a close to 50% winrate with as many decks as possible. That is strike number one for me. I absolutely love a game where good players win +80% of the time. And when they lose, they can track a misplay during the game, not just a bad dice roll.
Hearthstone shows it's age in having a linear mana system and one card a turn drawing system, in addition having only one win condition (fatigue is clearly not supported enough, and imo it shouldn't because it's quite unfun). This leads to super draw dependant games where the one who gets a better start has such a huge upperhand that the outcome feels decided during the first two rounds. When aggro is also supported so much with the laddering system as is, it leads to a flooded aggro-ladder where luck of the draw is the main way to win. For me that is not enjoyable.
I still play daily, cause I'm addicted (lol) and I strive to come up with an original deck to rule them all! And I do enjoy the game to a degree for sure, but I hate that it's not what it could be :'(
So why don't I move on to another game? That's the question! I have no idea what that game is. I installed Gwent on my Xbox and I find that one much deeper than Hearthstone, but it's not yet available to mobile devices so there's that. I find Hearthstone to be such a Juggernaut in the industry that it takes away from the competition and there is less room for smaller games to rise against this behemoth. And that yet again makes me sad that this already so well established game is not what I want it to be!
Why I find these salt threads interesting, is the fact that we can actually learn from these. We can identify the problems and start innovating new systems. I am a board game enthusiast and a published board game designer (one children's game, but still!) so I take every notion into account and brew ideas that a good and enjoyable game needs. I have actually started prototyping a new competetive card game system already and while I think I don't have a great chance in ever getting through to the wide audience, I've still tried and put my ideas forward! :)
Game on!
i like what you are saying and i do hope u can extract something out of these threads although i dont believe this is a salty thread myself. I am merely stating my impressions and all i wanted is that others think about what this game is and why they are playing, i guess i'm addicted too and that may be a reason why i have played for a while without really enjoying it, and because i have already spent money on the game so it can feel like a waste to not play.
i dont have a problem losing against Patches per se, the problem is that all decks look the same this days. geez i sound like a grandpa or something lol
While I understand the whole jade, pirate, highlander problematic on ladder, because it also wasn't fun for me anymore to play then.
There are new decks out there like big warrior, big mage, recruit mechanic in control warlock, spellhunter and more decks and this is just the beginning. I also think at the end on higher ladder ranks only a few decks will survive, but I couldn't disagree more about the statement that everything looks the same. I just hope at the end we don't come back to tempo rogue, jade druid and razakus till april which actually could possibly happen.
Maybe I'm projecting my own meaning on what he said, but I think there is something to be said here about decks looking the same.
Sure they are not all card-for-card the same, but they often utilise the same "package"
How many decks are currently running the Pirate Package? Or Bonemare? Or Corridor Creeper? How many likewise run Golakka Crawler? How many are running Eater of Secrets now? And how many decks being played are now secret-based ones?
For each of these, it's hardly a case of "just that one deck over there". For some of them, there are LOADS of decks that run it. So I can sort of understand why people think the meta is getting samey - when cards become pretty much must-includes.
cards like bonemare (or scalebane or fledgeling or hydra or corridor creeper) I agree, but in faster decks it is no autoinclude, and they allow f2p players also to make viable decks, as such there are pros and cons to these autoinclude cards.
you call it pirate package, but at the end it is mostly patches, the rest is not autoinclude and there is counterplay to that.
golakka crawler and eater of secrets are tech cards, as such they should be included in every deck if the situation/meta is in a state where it increases your overall winrate, both of them vanish when the corresponding archetypes vanish. we don't know yet which of the secret decks will stay, but at the end it is only mage and hunter who run secrets (rogue maybe one), so how can you talk about soo many secret decks. these decks are prevalent now, but these are basically just 3 decks, if you include ice block and control mage then 4. also secret decks are not all the same, they are just a sort of archetype and for hunter there is one without any creatures and one with cloaked huntress, which is being played since karazhan but just wasn't viable enough anymore. now that they finally push hunter to a better position in the meta after many failed tries, it is called the same decks everywhere (this is again good for f2p since hunter decks are mostly cheap)?
so your lots and lots of decks, are actually just 5, both either mage or hunter and only 5 because of iceblock and both were already played the last few months they were just not as viable as they are now. also there is never as much diversity as at the beginning of a new expansion (as now), if you don't like it now, I can only recommend quitting the game, because from now on the deck diversity will go down...
you call it pirate package, but at the end it is mostly patches, the rest is not autoinclude and there is counterplay to that.
Well no - the Pirate Package is Patches with 2x Southsea Captains. Patches is pretty much useless without them. They are what turn him into a charging 2/2 or even a 3/3
That's the whole package as it were - I've seen people play the 1-drop guy to lower the weapon durability, but it's not as common. It'ss rare (if ever) to see PAtches without the Captains.
Complaining about things that aren't even an issue anymore? Don't let the door hit you on the way out. The game has slowed down quite a bit with the last couple expansions. So many anti aggro tools have been introduced it's insane. My biggest complaints are personal gripes that may or may not even be objectively reasonable.
They've made a conscious decision to print more playable neutral cards I think to help out new players... the problem is that you get a lot of homogenous deck designs where there's a 10-15 card neutral "package" and games tend to play out very similarly.
I'm not a huge fan of Standard at the moment because scalebane, bonemare, corridor creeper, firefly, southsea, bloodsail and patches is 13 cards that are just really strong. Add 17 strong class cards and you have a good mid-range deck in any class basically.
So I've been playing much more Wild lately, but like someone else said, these cards will rotate out eventually, and if you really really hate them just pick a fun deck to play! Warlock Quest is super fun... it won't win you any tournaments but it's damn fun to play and with the new board clear you can actually complete the quest very very quickly if you want.
He was complaining that all decks look pretty much the same. Not that all decks are netdecked.
How many likewise run Golakka Crawler?
How many are running Eater of Secrets now?
And how many decks being played are now secret-based ones?
I really hate to say it, but if Patches is what drives you away from the game .... well, honestly, I don't know what to say.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
I'm sort of a new player to Hearthstone, entering the game only at Un'Goro. I'd like to take a moment and discuss the game itself. Not the state of the game so much. For a better insight on my gaming habits, I come from Fantasy Flight Games LCGs (and to be precise mainly Conquest, which has already been cancelled).
At first I really loved the game and learning all that new stuff seemed like this game had some depth to it. But I've come to realize this is not a great competetive game. "Boohoo crybaby go away then". Yes, you're right in saying that but I want to have a discussion on WHY so many threads like this constantly pops up and "nerf this", "the game is broken" etc.
This game is absolutely gorgeus with a technical team ala Blizzard, and the playerbase is so vast I can always find a game in seconds. Game time is short, and everything seems solid and interesting on the surface. So we (competetive players) trick ourselves in wanting this game to be more. It has all the promise to be something huge! But it falls short. I've understood that the goal of the designers is having a close to 50% winrate with as many decks as possible. That is strike number one for me. I absolutely love a game where good players win +80% of the time. And when they lose, they can track a misplay during the game, not just a bad dice roll.
Hearthstone shows it's age in having a linear mana system and one card a turn drawing system, in addition having only one win condition (fatigue is clearly not supported enough, and imo it shouldn't because it's quite unfun). This leads to super draw dependant games where the one who gets a better start has such a huge upperhand that the outcome feels decided during the first two rounds. When aggro is also supported so much with the laddering system as is, it leads to a flooded aggro-ladder where luck of the draw is the main way to win. For me that is not enjoyable.
I still play daily, cause I'm addicted (lol) and I strive to come up with an original deck to rule them all! And I do enjoy the game to a degree for sure, but I hate that it's not what it could be :'(
So why don't I move on to another game? That's the question! I have no idea what that game is. I installed Gwent on my Xbox and I find that one much deeper than Hearthstone, but it's not yet available to mobile devices so there's that. I find Hearthstone to be such a Juggernaut in the industry that it takes away from the competition and there is less room for smaller games to rise against this behemoth. And that yet again makes me sad that this already so well established game is not what I want it to be!
Why I find these salt threads interesting, is the fact that we can actually learn from these. We can identify the problems and start innovating new systems. I am a board game enthusiast and a published board game designer (one children's game, but still!) so I take every notion into account and brew ideas that a good and enjoyable game needs. I have actually started prototyping a new competetive card game system already and while I think I don't have a great chance in ever getting through to the wide audience, I've still tried and put my ideas forward! :)
Game on!
.
Well its a widely spread opinion that Patches is bad for this game...just look at deck lists....Hell even Priest plays southsea captain because this retarded designed 1 drop....
Reynad made a recent video in which he also complains about Pirate Body with creepers basically being in every deck and to some amount i agree that something is off if a highlander control deck utilises an aggro package with a 1 mana 1/1 charge and a 3 mana 3/3 standalone vanila.
I feel like blizzard made a potential mistake by nerfing War axe(should have moved to hall of fame as a 3/2 instead of a nerf imo) and small time buk..over this retarded onedrop legendary that is utilised in litteraly every deck in every class.
Also it has a high variance rng attached to it which just feels bad. Wasnt Yogg nerfed for that reason beeing a 10 drop? So im kinda confused why they let this go through.
I realy get green eyes if ill see spellhunters with patches package. imo outrotation of this 1 drop will have higher meta impact than 3 full card sets released.
Welcome to the endless cycle of waiting for the cards you hate to rotate out. You can be sure they'll add more cards you hate at the same time.
This is Team 5's official design strategy -- love it or leave it.
Personally, I've chosen to embrace it and try to play exactly the cards and archetypes that seem to make all the haters the angriest.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
They are what turn him into a charging 2/2 or even a 3/3
Complaining about things that aren't even an issue anymore? Don't let the door hit you on the way out. The game has slowed down quite a bit with the last couple expansions. So many anti aggro tools have been introduced it's insane. My biggest complaints are personal gripes that may or may not even be objectively reasonable.
They've made a conscious decision to print more playable neutral cards I think to help out new players... the problem is that you get a lot of homogenous deck designs where there's a 10-15 card neutral "package" and games tend to play out very similarly.
I'm not a huge fan of Standard at the moment because scalebane, bonemare, corridor creeper, firefly, southsea, bloodsail and patches is 13 cards that are just really strong. Add 17 strong class cards and you have a good mid-range deck in any class basically.
So I've been playing much more Wild lately, but like someone else said, these cards will rotate out eventually, and if you really really hate them just pick a fun deck to play! Warlock Quest is super fun... it won't win you any tournaments but it's damn fun to play and with the new board clear you can actually complete the quest very very quickly if you want.
Ibn Fahd.
rage quitting in 2k16 LUL