At one point, people were saying "we hate huntard players," now people are complaining that the class isn't playable.
If pirates were gone, there would be complaints about whatever the top deck was and how cheap it is. If it's reno, people would bitch about getting cheaped out by a nut kazakus potion, if it's miracle rogue the complaints would be about the 12/12 stealthed cleef, and if it's jade druid the complaints would be about getting cheaped out by the endless 1 mana 10/10 golems.
I don't think this was a bad meta. A few months of pirates dominating, then it gets overnerfed, goes away for good, and something else takes over. Ofc, then people will complain about how STB and patches are totally unplayable even though that's what's being asked for now. Yeah, I agree it's a bit stale when 50% of decks above rank 5 are running the pirate package, but it's going away pretty soon.
It doesn't make sense for things like nerfs to happen right away. It takes time for the meta to evolve. Like right after gadgetzan, the meta was 30% pirate warrior. Then people realized aggro shaman was better and people started switching over to that.
You don't think that cos you clicked face for 250 games with face shaman to legend, but it is VERY bad meta and every pro and even designers themselves admitted are aware of it and will hopefully fix it in the upcoming patch this month.
People will always bitch about soemthing, but now they actually make very much sense.
Toymachine, one of the rational, logical writers here even started whining for personal, subjective things. He was calm even for midrange shaman after nerfs and said "it's easily counterable" when one of its worst matchups is the mirror matchup.
Yes aggro is too strong but it isn't opposed by anything except turn 6 reno. Because reno/kazakus (maybe jade druid but it isn't played much) nearly blocks all other good-against-aggro decks. Fools here write "c'thun/n'zoth warrior doesn't see play because of aggro". They are just aggro haters no matter what and always bitch about it.
It's also funny how people try to act like playing aggro is just click face. If that's all you do you'll be rank 10 at best.
I played a lot of face shaman and pirate warrior last season after reaching legend with renolock,so i can see their weaknesses other than the most obvious ones.Well there isn't much more to them other than going face.
Generally going face with those decks is like tapping with the old handlock,70% of the times it's the right choice. Only against mirror and dragon priest the most obvious choice was not right one.Some choices here and here can give you an edge but if you think that that makes the decks not autopilot then you haven't played trully hard decks like patron,freeze mage,handlock and the old miracle decks.
People are mostly bitching about Pirates, and losing the game on the first turn - the game might last until turn six or seven, but it was lost before the Pirate opponent had a chance to play a card. It isn't an empty complaint, and the Pirate package ought to be nerfed, but the meta-game is otherwise in its best spot since launch - each archetype is viable, although the Hunter class currently doesn't have a playable build. Pirates are frustrating, rather than imbalanced. Looking at the VS numbers, the average win-rate of all the Pirate decks has bounced between 50.2% and 51.3% for the past three weeks. Despite the broken openings which Pirate decks are capable of producing, they aren't nearly as oppressive as past iterations of first-tier aggro decks - the team has been nerfing aggro decks for the past year, and correctly predicted, after plenty of play-testing, that the Pirates package wouldn't be OP in a meta-game that lacked Leper Gnome and Abusive Sergeant, among others. Unfortunately, they can't play-test for play-rate, and for the past couple of weeks, too many people have been playing the package - its play-rate has increased by about 10% on the higher rungs of the ladder. Apparently, the issue is being addressed when the Arena patch is ready, in another week or two, so the sky isn't exactly falling. Again, looking at the VS numbers this morning, there are seven decks which don't run Pirates that have win-rates between 48%-51%. Interestingly enough, Reno Mage is currently at its lowest play-rate in over a month, despite being the best non-Pirate deck on ladder. For whatever reason, the hivemind has never really liked the deck - despite having a 54%-57% win-rate against Pirates, Reno Mage has the same play-rate as Jade Druid, which has only a 32%-39% win-rate against those same decks. Lots of people find more value in bitching than in adjusting to the meta.
Just because there is always the worst meta doesn't mean it's always as bad. Of the decks played in high ladder 30% are Shamans and 50% run STB + Patches.
It's also funny how people try to act like playing aggro is just click face. If that's all you do you'll be rank 10 at best.
You would be surprised that how often is happens though, and every time it happens, something inside me dies. Oh, and that very good of you recognizing, when to clear 2-3 drops with weapon or one drop. Pure skill.
Wow i played my volcanic potion t3 and reno t6. MUH SKILL PLS GIMME 90%WINRATE
Also saying that the game is just a roll of dice if you get the right cards to counter or not, if you put it like that every game can be like this. "oh my my opponent drew brann before me and could get 2 kazakus potions with perfect rng options, wow much skill pls more of this"
People are mostly bitching about Pirates, and losing the game on the first turn - the game might last until turn six or seven, but it was lost before the Pirate opponent had a chance to play a card.
If your deck can't play a card before turn 6 maybe there is something wrong with your deck
hunter will be boosted again with the new cards coming and, like in the past seasons, will remain a zerg class (i don't like hunter or aggro decks in general, but keeping them out of meta would be unbalanced).
I suggest this as a possible Hunter boost. Beast, much balanced.
OP's point, if I get it right, is that people in community bitches too easily, and with less than real reasons.
Foreword: I dislike Aggro Shaman (which is an abomination, mainly built with supposedly Midrange and even Control cards) and Pirate Warrior.
-> Yes, there's a problem with Pirate Warrior. Yes, there is a problem with Shaman if it can afford Pirates so easily, while eg Paladin can't. -> Yes, Legend is overpopulated with Aggro, so all this requires some attention by devs.
But since the vast majority of players is NOT Legend, which is the only place where Aggro is too overspread, the most part of all the whining against Aggro is just bullshit. Whining just because. Just to complain about something, possibly as an excuse that relies of responsabilities.
Aggro is currently overestimated by non-Aggro players and over-bitched about, mainly by Reno players. So many non-Legend players say the game is sealed at turn 1 because of STB. As if they could play nothing at all next turns. As if heals and taunts were not there. You have no idea of how many Aggro matchups against Reno finish in a turn6 Reno and gg.
Too many Control players do not understand that Control can sometimes lose against Aggro. Problem is that this happens far beyond the "unlucky card draw". Why? Because Control are too often just Greedy players, and this game punishes greed very hard. More importantly, Greed IS NOT Control. Control strategy MUST BE ADAPTIVE. They have to follow up, NOT to play their own big bad minions and combos and greedy stuff, as if the opponent was not even there! Because that is Aggro, but Aggro CANNOT be greedy (hardly any deck can)!
In other words, too many players think that the game should finish at turn 10. Ideally always. Too many players want to play Control, but with an Aggro mindset.
But since there is no logic behind all the overreactions, I guess there is no point in trying to logically explain anything, so there's no point in this thread either...
People will never realize that. Bitching about strong cards and decks - it's what this forum for.
Personally I like that aggro decks rule the meta over again, last Aggro Shaman nerfs (Rockbitter and Tuskarr Totemic - completely undeserved!) made me so sad back in days, and now, luckily, Aggro Shaman is good again.
Contrary to popular on this forum belief, aggro decks require a lot of playing skill. Another advantage of them is that you need to spend much lower amount of time to get to Legend every season. Until ladder system is not fixed - aggro decks will remain smart choice of all competitive players. What's the reason to waste your time trying to outcontrol your Rank 10 opponent instead of smorcing him in 5 turns and continue your climb?
But there are some things in the meta I don't like. Another my favorite game style is combo, and since Worgen Warrior was nerfed and Malygos decks become unplayable there are no combo decks in HS left. Seems like removing combo decks is design goal of Ben Brode's team.
Second issue in the meta is the lack of diversity. Some cards of the new set were so strong that you can't allow don't play them. It drastically reduced deckbuilding options and meta diversity as a consequence.
Overall, I don't like any nerfs and changes. Even strongest decks are not invincible.
hunter will be boosted again with the new cards coming and, like in the past seasons, will remain a zerg class (i don't like hunter or aggro decks in general, but keeping them out of meta would be unbalanced).
I suggest this as a possible Hunter boost. Beast, much balanced.
People are mostly bitching about Pirates, and losing the game on the first turn - the game might last until turn six or seven, but it was lost before the Pirate opponent had a chance to play a card.
If your deck can't play a card before turn 6 maybe there is something wrong with your deck
Re-read the post before offering snarky comments. The point was perfectly clear.
Players routinely lose games against Pirate decks before they play a card, because nothing they can do allows them to recover from the degenerate opening of 1/3 weapon, 1/1 charger, 3/2 and 1/1 pirate, or some combination thereof. The opponent will play plenty of cards before turn six, and lose the game regardless, owing to the Pirate opening on turn one. Hence, "losing the game before playing a single card."
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At one point, people were saying "we hate huntard players," now people are complaining that the class isn't playable.
If pirates were gone, there would be complaints about whatever the top deck was and how cheap it is. If it's reno, people would bitch about getting cheaped out by a nut kazakus potion, if it's miracle rogue the complaints would be about the 12/12 stealthed cleef, and if it's jade druid the complaints would be about getting cheaped out by the endless 1 mana 10/10 golems.
I don't think this was a bad meta. A few months of pirates dominating, then it gets overnerfed, goes away for good, and something else takes over. Ofc, then people will complain about how STB and patches are totally unplayable even though that's what's being asked for now. Yeah, I agree it's a bit stale when 50% of decks above rank 5 are running the pirate package, but it's going away pretty soon.
It doesn't make sense for things like nerfs to happen right away. It takes time for the meta to evolve. Like right after gadgetzan, the meta was 30% pirate warrior. Then people realized aggro shaman was better and people started switching over to that.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
It's also funny how people try to act like playing aggro is just click face. If that's all you do you'll be rank 10 at best.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
People are mostly bitching about Pirates, and losing the game on the first turn - the game might last until turn six or seven, but it was lost before the Pirate opponent had a chance to play a card. It isn't an empty complaint, and the Pirate package ought to be nerfed, but the meta-game is otherwise in its best spot since launch - each archetype is viable, although the Hunter class currently doesn't have a playable build. Pirates are frustrating, rather than imbalanced. Looking at the VS numbers, the average win-rate of all the Pirate decks has bounced between 50.2% and 51.3% for the past three weeks. Despite the broken openings which Pirate decks are capable of producing, they aren't nearly as oppressive as past iterations of first-tier aggro decks - the team has been nerfing aggro decks for the past year, and correctly predicted, after plenty of play-testing, that the Pirates package wouldn't be OP in a meta-game that lacked Leper Gnome and Abusive Sergeant, among others. Unfortunately, they can't play-test for play-rate, and for the past couple of weeks, too many people have been playing the package - its play-rate has increased by about 10% on the higher rungs of the ladder. Apparently, the issue is being addressed when the Arena patch is ready, in another week or two, so the sky isn't exactly falling. Again, looking at the VS numbers this morning, there are seven decks which don't run Pirates that have win-rates between 48%-51%. Interestingly enough, Reno Mage is currently at its lowest play-rate in over a month, despite being the best non-Pirate deck on ladder. For whatever reason, the hivemind has never really liked the deck - despite having a 54%-57% win-rate against Pirates, Reno Mage has the same play-rate as Jade Druid, which has only a 32%-39% win-rate against those same decks. Lots of people find more value in bitching than in adjusting to the meta.
I have never complained and will never complain about hunter being unplayable.
Fuck cubelock
There surely will always be something to bitch about. If the bitching itself is somewhat constructive, that's perfectly OK.
Kappa.
Just because there is always the worst meta doesn't mean it's always as bad. Of the decks played in high ladder 30% are Shamans and 50% run STB + Patches.
OP's point, if I get it right, is that people in community bitches too easily, and with less than real reasons.
Foreword: I dislike Aggro Shaman (which is an abomination, mainly built with supposedly Midrange and even Control cards) and Pirate Warrior.
-> Yes, there's a problem with Pirate Warrior. Yes, there is a problem with Shaman if it can afford Pirates so easily, while eg Paladin can't.
-> Yes, Legend is overpopulated with Aggro, so all this requires some attention by devs.
But since the vast majority of players is NOT Legend, which is the only place where Aggro is too overspread, the most part of all the whining against Aggro is just bullshit. Whining just because. Just to complain about something, possibly as an excuse that relies of responsabilities.
Aggro is currently overestimated by non-Aggro players and over-bitched about, mainly by Reno players.
So many non-Legend players say the game is sealed at turn 1 because of STB. As if they could play nothing at all next turns. As if heals and taunts were not there.
You have no idea of how many Aggro matchups against Reno finish in a turn6 Reno and gg.
Too many Control players do not understand that Control can sometimes lose against Aggro.
Problem is that this happens far beyond the "unlucky card draw". Why?
Because Control are too often just Greedy players, and this game punishes greed very hard. More importantly, Greed IS NOT Control.
Control strategy MUST BE ADAPTIVE. They have to follow up, NOT to play their own big bad minions and combos and greedy stuff, as if the opponent was not even there! Because that is Aggro, but Aggro CANNOT be greedy (hardly any deck can)!
In other words, too many players think that the game should finish at turn 10. Ideally always.
Too many players want to play Control, but with an Aggro mindset.
But since there is no logic behind all the overreactions, I guess there is no point in trying to logically explain anything, so there's no point in this thread either...
People will never realize that. Bitching about strong cards and decks - it's what this forum for.
Personally I like that aggro decks rule the meta over again, last Aggro Shaman nerfs (Rockbitter and Tuskarr Totemic - completely undeserved!) made me so sad back in days, and now, luckily, Aggro Shaman is good again.
Contrary to popular on this forum belief, aggro decks require a lot of playing skill. Another advantage of them is that you need to spend much lower amount of time to get to Legend every season. Until ladder system is not fixed - aggro decks will remain smart choice of all competitive players. What's the reason to waste your time trying to outcontrol your Rank 10 opponent instead of smorcing him in 5 turns and continue your climb?
But there are some things in the meta I don't like. Another my favorite game style is combo, and since Worgen Warrior was nerfed and Malygos decks become unplayable there are no combo decks in HS left. Seems like removing combo decks is design goal of Ben Brode's team.
Second issue in the meta is the lack of diversity. Some cards of the new set were so strong that you can't allow don't play them. It drastically reduced deckbuilding options and meta diversity as a consequence.
Overall, I don't like any nerfs and changes. Even strongest decks are not invincible.
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S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
When will people realize that the state of the game is at this very moment total crap and garbage?
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
People will always bitch because blizzard will never do what it takes to actually fix the game.
I don't like the meta because there are essentially 2 classes that are 90% of decks played on ladder - Pirates and Reno/Kazakus.