I started a new Demon Hunter deck, asked the deck builder to auto-complete for me expecting the tempo build ... and it gave me, Big Demon Hunter?!?!
By my understanding, the deck autocomplete is supposed to give you the highest winrate deck from your collection. I have all of the tempo DH cards in my collection...
is there a chance the Big demon hunter is secretly the best? I had some fair success with it when I tried it out... (I'm 8-star bonus)
By my understanding, the deck autocomplete is supposed to give you the highest winrate deck from your collection. I have all of the tempo DH cards in my collection...
Well, if you really believe autocomplete gives you the best possible deck, there's not a lot I can do for you...
By my understanding, the deck autocomplete is supposed to give you the highest winrate deck from your collection. I have all of the tempo DH cards in my collection...
Well, if you really believe autocomplete gives you the best possible deck, there's not a lot I can do for you...
If you believe it does not, there's not a lot I can do for you...
By my understanding, the deck autocomplete is supposed to give you the highest winrate deck from your collection. I have all of the tempo DH cards in my collection...
Well, if you really believe autocomplete gives you the best possible deck, there's not a lot I can do for you...
Well that’s unnecessary insulting and ignorant.
It’s not what I believe, it’s what Blizzard has literally said. They implemented this improvement to deck autocomplete last year. Google it.
It’s not what I believe, it’s what Blizzard has literally said. They implemented this improvement to deck autocomplete last year. Google it.
Please accept my apologies if you felt insulted. It wasn't intended.
What I was trying to say is I don't believe in Blizzard's statement. I've tried it a couple of time when I was missing one or 2 cards and the results were pretty lame. That's all...
It’s not what I believe, it’s what Blizzard has literally said. They implemented this improvement to deck autocomplete last year. Google it.
Please accept my apologies if you felt insulted. It wasn't intended.
What I was trying to say is I don't believe in Blizzard's statement. I've tried it a couple of time when I was missing one or 2 cards and the results were pretty lame. That's all...
Well, try it with all available cards. I had very good results so far.
I think Big Demon Hunter is fantastic, but suffers against the fastest decks such as tempo DH. As more and more people are teching against Tempo DH this deck becomes better (has very good matchups against the counters) anyway. So go for it and try it out. :)
I also asked Viper about it and he said his Big DH is favourite against faster DH. I belive this ibber version has the best winrate and thats why the autocomplete option is working as intended.
Big demon demon hunter has one, massive flaw. And that flaw is their ability to deal with large minions. People hilariously thing DH has 0 weak points, but they, like druid, do not have a good time trying to remove big stuff when they don’t have board to help.
If your opponent plays something like dragonqueen and you don’t have a board to help remove it, the game ends. Or if you play against warrior and they buff>duplicate their warmaul. You lose.
DH does exceptionally well at removing small/medium boards, but if anything big gets cheated out against you there’s no coming back.
Big demon demon hunter has one, massive flaw. And that flaw is their ability to deal with large minions. People hilariously thing DH has 0 weak points, but they, like druid, do not have a good time trying to remove big stuff when they don’t have board to help.
If your opponent plays something like dragonqueen and you don’t have a board to help remove it, the game ends. Or if you play against warrior and they buff>duplicate their warmaul. You lose.
DH does exceptionally well at removing small/medium boards, but if anything big gets cheated out against you there’s no coming back.
Absolutely true and I'd add that even mid-sized minions are an issue for DH most of the times, which is the single reason why Hunter still has a chance against DH. Once you play like Rotnest or Evasive Feywing or something like a Scavenger-buffed Phase Stalker, DH usually has to remove them with his face, taking a crapload of damage in the process.
Had many Hunter vs DH games where DH was forced to double/triple hit mid-sized minions with Warglaives, and it was the correct play too, opening the way for Priestess and threatening lethal next turn; but all that damage he took in the process gave me lethal from hand.
Big demon demon hunter has one, massive flaw. And that flaw is their ability to deal with large minions. People hilariously thing DH has 0 weak points, but they, like druid, do not have a good time trying to remove big stuff when they don’t have board to help.
If your opponent plays something like dragonqueen and you don’t have a board to help remove it, the game ends. Or if you play against warrior and they buff>duplicate their warmaul. You lose.
DH does exceptionally well at removing small/medium boards, but if anything big gets cheated out against you there’s no coming back.
You can't win against everything in this game. If you play bigger minions, the one who plays even bigger ones, is usually the winner. Meta currently is DH (aggro), Face Hunter, Galakrond Rogue. Those are decks to beat. Since 2 of them are ultra fast aggro and one is, I don't even know, some strange mash-up between tempo and control, you obviously can't have a deck, which would also be winning vs Druid and Control Warriors. Or if you have one, please give me a list
Now, I don't mean Big DH is good by this - I don't know, the idea never seemed worth to me, so I didn't ry. If you have a deck, which is absolutely best, while tempo, why would you try to turn it into quasi control, when there's no tools for this? Also I hate playing decks without hard removal - not because I believe it makes them bad, but because I simply hate loosing to like one card (what will inevitably happen if I let them drop, let's say, DQ Alex on me with such decks).
Big demon demon hunter has one, massive flaw. And that flaw is their ability to deal with large minions. People hilariously thing DH has 0 weak points, but they, like druid, do not have a good time trying to remove big stuff when they don’t have board to help.
If your opponent plays something like dragonqueen and you don’t have a board to help remove it, the game ends. Or if you play against warrior and they buff>duplicate their warmaul. You lose.
DH does exceptionally well at removing small/medium boards, but if anything big gets cheated out against you there’s no coming back.
You can't win against everything in this game. If you play bigger minions, the one who plays even bigger ones, is usually the winner. Meta currently is DH (aggro), Face Hunter, Galakrond Rogue. Those are decks to beat. Since 2 of them are ultra fast aggro and one is, I don't even know, some strange mash-up between tempo and control, you obviously can't have a deck, which would also be winning vs Druid and Control Warriors. Or if you have one, please give me a list
Now, I don't mean Big DH is good by this - I don't know, the idea never seemed worth to me, so I didn't ry. If you have a deck, which is absolutely best, while tempo, why would you try to turn it into quasi control, when there's no tools for this? Also I hate playing decks without hard removal - not because I believe it makes them bad, but because I simply hate loosing to like one card (what will inevitably happen if I let them drop, let's say, DQ Alex on me with such decks).
If you want to beat or at least do well against those 3 decks, the deck you're looking for is Tempo/Egg Warrior - which right now seem a bit stronger than its Control counterpart.
Of course it loses to Priest (no idea how it goes vs Druid) but who cares? They're both not nearly as popular as the other 3 decks you mentioned, Druids in particular are basically dead, and as you said you can't just beat everything.
Not sure why Tempo Warrior is flying so much under the radar, deck is pretty popular and ridiculously strong at everything (Tempo plays, good removals, but can also be super aggressive if you give him the initiative, has obscene card draw / tutor for combo pieces for 20+ armor combos that also happen to double up as hand-refills AND possible 12+ dmg burst finishing combos)
If I had to guess why its playrate isn't as high as it should be, maybe it's for the same reason I am personally not playing it - the crafts required are a bit too "specific" let's say - 1 legendary and a bunch of epics that only works in this specific archetype for this specific class that I'm not super fond of - not doing it at least for the moment. But it's definitely tier1 right now, and does well against DH.
I wanna try a Control DH deck in wild but find no good decks. I hate aggro decks.
Demon Hunter is like "regular" hunter, in that it is at it's core designed to go face - and little else. Which is why you'll, at most, find some midrange variants lying about in between the aggro iterations. It's also why I find those two classes to be by far the least interesting ones in the game.
I wanna try a Control DH deck in wild but find no good decks. I hate aggro decks.
Demon Hunter is like "regular" hunter, in that it is at it's core designed to go face - and little else. Which is why you'll, at most, find some midrange variants lying about in between the aggro iterations. It's also why I find those two classes to be by far the least interesting ones in the game.
I agree. It's a shame DH can't be a fun control deck. I am trying different N'Zoth decks with Deathrattle but DH have no real good removal spells and his hero power is lacking in control matches. Like you say it's just face face face face..... Sigh... I hope we get Lich King as the 11th new class.
Hero power could be 1 mana deal 1 damage to your hero and choose to summon either a 1/3 Ghoul with taunt or a 3/1 Skeleton with rush.
I wanna try a Control DH deck in wild but find no good decks. I hate aggro decks.
Demon Hunter is like "regular" hunter, in that it is at it's core designed to go face - and little else. Which is why you'll, at most, find some midrange variants lying about in between the aggro iterations. It's also why I find those two classes to be by far the least interesting ones in the game.
The problem is the first wave of nerfs were horrible and killed some cards that were key to the early game of those archetypes - in particular Aldrachi Warblades - but also hitting the cost of Skull of Gul'dan (instead of the discounts) basically impacted any archetype but aggro. Aggro doesn't care if he's refilling at 5 or 6 and in fact want to do other plays on turn 5 (discounted Priestess or TwinSlice + Glaivebound) and is the archetype that has the easier time activating Outcast for obvious reason.
If they weren't so damn quick nerfing the wrong cards and most importantly in the wrong ways, DH would be fine right now, or at least it wouldn't be a purely aggro class or its aggro archetype would be less oppressive. Battlefiend should have been the #1 target from the start, followed by either Priestess or, most importantly, the ability to play her on turn 5. People are still screaming about Altruis, but it's a lategame combo card not different that some other turn 7-8 combo powerplays some other classes have (Warrior with his Skipper combos, Rogue with her Hanar secret christmas-trees or Wand/Gala 0-cost cards BS). What's REALLY losing me the most games against DH is either 1) how quick and versatile their early game is and 2) turn-5 Priestess. Who care about Altruis. I always, aaalways would have a way to deal with a turn 7 Priestess, but turn 5 is just impossible to manage AND it goes too well with what the card does - killing a board of small minions, which is more likely on turn 5 than on turn 7. On turn 7 you're more likely to have something like a a 4/4 or 5/5 or whatever mid-sized minion on the board from a previous turn, and Priestess dropped from behind on that kind of board does jack shit. Raging Felscreamer should be the card to look at.
How is it not designed to go face? You listed the cards that aren't designed that way (and well, even hunter has drops of control-cards here and there), and they are literally the ones that don't get played.
And Raging Felscreamer is not even close to being the problem, IMO. It's a broken two-card, two-turn combo, yes. But that stacks up quite evenly with a lot of other classes - high rolling and power spikes is a thing i Hearthstone, always has been. The overwhelming tempo and unending ability to draw cards while bashing your face in, on the other hand...
I wanna try a Control DH deck in wild but find no good decks. I hate aggro decks.
Demon Hunter is like "regular" hunter, in that it is at it's core designed to go face - and little else. Which is why you'll, at most, find some midrange variants lying about in between the aggro iterations. It's also why I find those two classes to be by far the least interesting ones in the game.
The problem is the first wave of nerfs were horrible and killed some cards that were key to the early game of those archetypes - in particular Aldrachi Warblades - but also hitting the cost of Skull of Gul'dan (instead of the discounts) basically impacted any archetype but aggro. Aggro doesn't care if he's refilling at 5 or 6 and in fact want to do other plays on turn 5 (discounted Priestess or TwinSlice + Glaivebound) and is the archetype that has the easier time activating Outcast for obvious reason.
If they weren't so damn quick nerfing the wrong cards and most importantly in the wrong ways, DH would be fine right now, or at least it wouldn't be a purely aggro class or its aggro archetype would be less oppressive. Battlefiend should have been the #1 target from the start, followed by either Priestess or, most importantly, the ability to play her on turn 5. People are still screaming about Altruis, but it's a lategame combo card not different that some other turn 7-8 combo powerplays some other classes have (Warrior with his Skipper combos, Rogue with her Hanar secret christmas-trees or Wand/Gala 0-cost cards BS). What's REALLY losing me the most games against DH is either 1) how quick and versatile their early game is and 2) turn-5 Priestess. Who care about Altruis. I always, aaalways would have a way to deal with a turn 7 Priestess, but turn 5 is just impossible to manage AND it goes too well with what the card does - killing a board of small minions, which is more likely on turn 5 than on turn 7. On turn 7 you're more likely to have something like a a 4/4 or 5/5 or whatever mid-sized minion on the board from a previous turn, and Priestess dropped from behind on that kind of board does jack shit. Raging Felscreamer should be the card to look at.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with "their AoEs scream control" thing. Priest, Shaman, Warrior - yes. DH - no. Its AoEs are designed to remove smaller boards, of other tempo decks, mid-range at most. It lacks both a focused hard removal and an AoE, which would kill bigger health minions.
Now I do partially agree with the part that DH was meant to be tempo/aggro. Sure, you can bring up cards, which are controllish. But its BEST cards are aggro focused. The class has cheap weapons - usually a sign of aggro. It has tons of cheap draw - usually aggro would appreciate it. It has its own silence to go past taunts - not played only because they have probably the best "go face" tool in existence - Kayn Sunfury. C'mon, just read it.
The fact that you can have examples of some somewhat good cards for control in the class proves only one thing - the class was designed to lack almost NOTHING. You want control? Play control. You want aggro? Even better, you will have the best deck of the game! Highlander? Count me in! And remember - whatever you choose, we'll give you a ton of draw to make it work.
I started a new Demon Hunter deck, asked the deck builder to auto-complete for me expecting the tempo build ... and it gave me, Big Demon Hunter?!?!
By my understanding, the deck autocomplete is supposed to give you the highest winrate deck from your collection. I have all of the tempo DH cards in my collection...
is there a chance the Big demon hunter is secretly the best? I had some fair success with it when I tried it out... (I'm 8-star bonus)
Lol no. Tempo is far and away the best build for DH.
Well, if you really believe autocomplete gives you the best possible deck, there's not a lot I can do for you...
If you believe it does not, there's not a lot I can do for you...
Always expect the unexpectable!
Well that’s unnecessary insulting and ignorant.
It’s not what I believe, it’s what Blizzard has literally said. They implemented this improvement to deck autocomplete last year. Google it.
Please accept my apologies if you felt insulted. It wasn't intended.
What I was trying to say is I don't believe in Blizzard's statement. I've tried it a couple of time when I was missing one or 2 cards and the results were pretty lame. That's all...
Well, try it with all available cards. I had very good results so far.
I think Big Demon Hunter is fantastic, but suffers against the fastest decks such as tempo DH. As more and more people are teching against Tempo DH this deck becomes better (has very good matchups against the counters) anyway. So go for it and try it out. :)
Always expect the unexpectable!
By the time you get some big cards out you will already be dead to another demon hunter
I also asked Viper about it and he said his Big DH is favourite against faster DH. I belive this ibber version has the best winrate and thats why the autocomplete option is working as intended.
Big demon demon hunter has one, massive flaw. And that flaw is their ability to deal with large minions. People hilariously thing DH has 0 weak points, but they, like druid, do not have a good time trying to remove big stuff when they don’t have board to help.
If your opponent plays something like dragonqueen and you don’t have a board to help remove it, the game ends. Or if you play against warrior and they buff>duplicate their warmaul. You lose.
DH does exceptionally well at removing small/medium boards, but if anything big gets cheated out against you there’s no coming back.
Absolutely true and I'd add that even mid-sized minions are an issue for DH most of the times, which is the single reason why Hunter still has a chance against DH. Once you play like Rotnest or Evasive Feywing or something like a Scavenger-buffed Phase Stalker, DH usually has to remove them with his face, taking a crapload of damage in the process.
Had many Hunter vs DH games where DH was forced to double/triple hit mid-sized minions with Warglaives, and it was the correct play too, opening the way for Priestess and threatening lethal next turn; but all that damage he took in the process gave me lethal from hand.
You can't win against everything in this game. If you play bigger minions, the one who plays even bigger ones, is usually the winner. Meta currently is DH (aggro), Face Hunter, Galakrond Rogue. Those are decks to beat. Since 2 of them are ultra fast aggro and one is, I don't even know, some strange mash-up between tempo and control, you obviously can't have a deck, which would also be winning vs Druid and Control Warriors. Or if you have one, please give me a list
Now, I don't mean Big DH is good by this - I don't know, the idea never seemed worth to me, so I didn't ry. If you have a deck, which is absolutely best, while tempo, why would you try to turn it into quasi control, when there's no tools for this? Also I hate playing decks without hard removal - not because I believe it makes them bad, but because I simply hate loosing to like one card (what will inevitably happen if I let them drop, let's say, DQ Alex on me with such decks).
If you want to beat or at least do well against those 3 decks, the deck you're looking for is Tempo/Egg Warrior - which right now seem a bit stronger than its Control counterpart.
Of course it loses to Priest (no idea how it goes vs Druid) but who cares? They're both not nearly as popular as the other 3 decks you mentioned, Druids in particular are basically dead, and as you said you can't just beat everything.
Not sure why Tempo Warrior is flying so much under the radar, deck is pretty popular and ridiculously strong at everything (Tempo plays, good removals, but can also be super aggressive if you give him the initiative, has obscene card draw / tutor for combo pieces for 20+ armor combos that also happen to double up as hand-refills AND possible 12+ dmg burst finishing combos)
If I had to guess why its playrate isn't as high as it should be, maybe it's for the same reason I am personally not playing it - the crafts required are a bit too "specific" let's say - 1 legendary and a bunch of epics that only works in this specific archetype for this specific class that I'm not super fond of - not doing it at least for the moment. But it's definitely tier1 right now, and does well against DH.
DH is ruining the game experience. End off.
I wanna try a Control DH deck in wild but find no good decks. I hate aggro decks.
Demon Hunter is like "regular" hunter, in that it is at it's core designed to go face - and little else. Which is why you'll, at most, find some midrange variants lying about in between the aggro iterations. It's also why I find those two classes to be by far the least interesting ones in the game.
I agree. It's a shame DH can't be a fun control deck. I am trying different N'Zoth decks with Deathrattle but DH have no real good removal spells and his hero power is lacking in control matches. Like you say it's just face face face face..... Sigh... I hope we get Lich King as the 11th new class.
Hero power could be 1 mana deal 1 damage to your hero and choose to summon either a 1/3 Ghoul with taunt or a 3/1 Skeleton with rush.
DH was clearly NOT designed to go face, it was in fact clearly designed to be a tempo class with possible control and combo archetypes, you can see that in many cards, like Pit Commander, Coilfang Warlord, Ashtongue Battlelord, Hulking Overfiend, Wrathspike Brute... His AOEs scream "control" too (Chaos Nova, Blade Dance), and you have Flamereaper too which would be an incredible control weapon. The Kaelthas / Twin Slice / Inner Demon combo was also clearly designed to be a thing.
The problem is the first wave of nerfs were horrible and killed some cards that were key to the early game of those archetypes - in particular Aldrachi Warblades - but also hitting the cost of Skull of Gul'dan (instead of the discounts) basically impacted any archetype but aggro. Aggro doesn't care if he's refilling at 5 or 6 and in fact want to do other plays on turn 5 (discounted Priestess or TwinSlice + Glaivebound) and is the archetype that has the easier time activating Outcast for obvious reason.
If they weren't so damn quick nerfing the wrong cards and most importantly in the wrong ways, DH would be fine right now, or at least it wouldn't be a purely aggro class or its aggro archetype would be less oppressive. Battlefiend should have been the #1 target from the start, followed by either Priestess or, most importantly, the ability to play her on turn 5. People are still screaming about Altruis, but it's a lategame combo card not different that some other turn 7-8 combo powerplays some other classes have (Warrior with his Skipper combos, Rogue with her Hanar secret christmas-trees or Wand/Gala 0-cost cards BS). What's REALLY losing me the most games against DH is either 1) how quick and versatile their early game is and 2) turn-5 Priestess. Who care about Altruis. I always, aaalways would have a way to deal with a turn 7 Priestess, but turn 5 is just impossible to manage AND it goes too well with what the card does - killing a board of small minions, which is more likely on turn 5 than on turn 7. On turn 7 you're more likely to have something like a a 4/4 or 5/5 or whatever mid-sized minion on the board from a previous turn, and Priestess dropped from behind on that kind of board does jack shit. Raging Felscreamer should be the card to look at.
How is it not designed to go face? You listed the cards that aren't designed that way (and well, even hunter has drops of control-cards here and there), and they are literally the ones that don't get played.
And Raging Felscreamer is not even close to being the problem, IMO. It's a broken two-card, two-turn combo, yes. But that stacks up quite evenly with a lot of other classes - high rolling and power spikes is a thing i Hearthstone, always has been. The overwhelming tempo and unending ability to draw cards while bashing your face in, on the other hand...
Sorry, but I have to disagree with "their AoEs scream control" thing. Priest, Shaman, Warrior - yes. DH - no. Its AoEs are designed to remove smaller boards, of other tempo decks, mid-range at most. It lacks both a focused hard removal and an AoE, which would kill bigger health minions.
Now I do partially agree with the part that DH was meant to be tempo/aggro. Sure, you can bring up cards, which are controllish. But its BEST cards are aggro focused. The class has cheap weapons - usually a sign of aggro. It has tons of cheap draw - usually aggro would appreciate it. It has its own silence to go past taunts - not played only because they have probably the best "go face" tool in existence - Kayn Sunfury. C'mon, just read it.
The fact that you can have examples of some somewhat good cards for control in the class proves only one thing - the class was designed to lack almost NOTHING. You want control? Play control. You want aggro? Even better, you will have the best deck of the game! Highlander? Count me in! And remember - whatever you choose, we'll give you a ton of draw to make it work.
Simple as that.