Yeesh, not even 24 hour and we're almost up to 20 pages of Discussion. O_O Glad to see some people are having fun with the theme, though. =D
For my own submission, I'm tempted to take the easy way out and just submit the card that won me Murozond's tournament...
Buuut I've kind of already made it to a WCDC final once with that concept (Kindrid Keywords last season) and also the Aegwynn mini-competition one season. I really like the idea of this sort of effect, but I also feel like I need to shut up about it, so I'm going with something different... Here's my concept so far...
I almost feel like that Quest reward fits Priest better than Paladin, I mean considering stuff like Thoughtsteal
. . . Maybe stupid idea: What if I made the Quest neutral? There exist no neutral spells, but a Quest would be a perfect candidate, no? Especially a Quest triggering from Hero Power usage, something all classes are perfectly capable of?
I'm honestly surprised there's not a neutral quest already. This would actually be pretty cool as a neutral quest. Seems like it could be pretty insane considering Mariel's ability, but still, it could be cool.
So, i make some changes, add +1 health to the first Illidan, because at 3 there is too many boardclears, so seems a little weak to me in that aspect, same with the second one, thoughts? its the wording right? else what did you guys thing of the art.
I don't think you can make it a neutral quest because it opens up combos a bit too much. It's nice as a Priest or a Paladin card, safer since they tend to run minion heavy decks (less likely to get Malygos OTK stuff). Like the Quest idea a lot though!
Yeesh, not even 24 hour and we're almost up to 20 pages of Discussion. O_O Glad to see some people are having fun with the theme, though. =D
For my own submission, I'm tempted to take the easy way out and just submit the card that won me Murozond's tournament...
Buuut I've kind of already made it to a WCDC final once with that concept (Kindrid Keywords last season) and also the Aegwynn mini-competition one season. I really like the idea of this sort of effect, but I also feel like I need to shut up about it, so I'm going with something different... Here's my concept so far...
I almost feel like that Quest reward fits Priest better than Paladin, I mean considering stuff like Thoughtsteal
. . . Maybe stupid idea: What if I made the Quest neutral? There exist no neutral spells, but a Quest would be a perfect candidate, no? Especially a Quest triggering from Hero Power usage, something all classes are perfectly capable of?
I actually really like the idea of neutral Quests and i hope that might be one of the next steps Blizzard takes with the post-Un'goro expansion. Plus almost every class should be able to complete this with relative ease - except for rogues maybe.
Yeesh, not even 24 hour and we're almost up to 20 pages of Discussion. O_O Glad to see some people are having fun with the theme, though. =D
For my own submission, I'm tempted to take the easy way out and just submit the card that won me Murozond's tournament...
Buuut I've kind of already made it to a WCDC final once with that concept (Kindrid Keywords last season) and also the Aegwynn mini-competition one season. I really like the idea of this sort of effect, but I also feel like I need to shut up about it, so I'm going with something different... Here's my concept so far...
I almost feel like that Quest reward fits Priest better than Paladin, I mean considering stuff like Thoughtsteal
. . . Maybe stupid idea: What if I made the Quest neutral? There exist no neutral spells, but a Quest would be a perfect candidate, no? Especially a Quest triggering from Hero Power usage, something all classes are perfectly capable of?
I actually really like the idea of neutral Quests and i hope that might be one of the next steps Blizzard takes with the post-Un'goro expansion. Plus almost every class should be able to complete this with relative ease - except for rogues maybe.
Phew, discounting for 3 seems like a little too much at first glance. Cards like Cabalist's Tome that can already create good value would almost definately create crazy value with this card. I could be wrong but right now it seems a little over the top to me, considering how many cards actually give you extra cards to benefit from this. Maybe simply lowering the discount would fix the problem.
Alright, found at least a little time to work on some ideas. Didn't quite manage to browse through the flood of new posts in time though - i was hoping to finish some reviews before submission topic was up. Hopefully discussion posts won't fade out as rapidly as last week so i can still be of service.
A little explanation
Liadrin: Even though i'm far less firm with wow lore than i'd sometimes like to be, i happen to remember some things about Liadrins story (or at least i think i do). I have 1-2 additional ideas for her but those still need some shaping. This one is trying to focus on her strongly valuing unity among her followers and the benefits of that mechanic-wise.
C'thun: For a long time i've been enjoying the stories of H.P. Lovecraft and the special type of horror they convey. And as C'thun clearly derivates from Cthulhu, i always thought he could do a slightly better job at getting across that concept. After all Cthulhu/C'thun is a being that can't technically be defeated (by humans that is). The possibility of his existence is unnerving and irritating people and merely laying eye on him would be enough to instill madness into ones mind. That's kind of the attempt i'm making here as the danger keeps and keeps on growing and when it finally is unveiled - or rather 'unstealthed' - you have to quickly seal the deal as the presence of such an entity is something neither of the players can comprehend.
@MrUncreative Cool effect. Way too strong tho. Especially with Card draw and Sylvanas.
Thanks to you - but actually now that i think abou it, i don't even think it's that unbalanced. After all: 1.) Sylvanas isn't really a thing anymore - plus the most powerful Deathrattles are usually priority-targets for transform-removal and they rarely trigger as easily as i'd wish. 2.) As i remember from playing renozoth mage - making it past turn 10 mostly means you're playing the control game and while playing the control game, getting a lot of additional draw can often hurt you more than it benefits you. 3.) You develop a relatively small body for 10 mana and are reliant on whether you already killed off some powerful Deathrattle-minions or not. Maybe i could still somehow limit the number of triggerable effects to ease out possible problems, but wow - now that i wrote this down, the card even seems weaker to me than the actual N'zoth...Huh... :D
I like the effect and LOVE the art. Is this meant to be a Battlecry, or just passive effect? Not sure, but you may want to look at Ethereal Peddler for wording.
I think a card like this would come in handy in many, many different situations. Wanted to make it low-cost in case you're dealing with aggro decks, and decent stats so that once the effect wears off, it's still a viable 4-drop minion. Hope you like it!
Alright, I've settled on a version of my entry that I'm pretty satisfied with! =D
I removed the part about reducing the minions' costs to (0) because having too powerful of a Battlecry potentially becomes problematic in Rogue because of Shadowstep, etc.
The rest was budgeted via calculations involving Frost Giant and pre-nerf Ancient of Lore, the former because it's a pretty easy connection between using Hero Power usage as cost reduction versus Quest requirement and the latter because the Battlecry is effectively a form of drawing two cards. You may think using pre-nerf Ancient of Lore is unfair because it's so powerful, but on the flip side nobody plays Frost Giant because it's bad, so I think that about evens out.
Note that unlike existing Quests this one doesn't have a HUGE effect. I'm fine with this because, unlike the other Quests, this one is not a build-around. This fits just fine into pretty much any existing late-game deck. Folks might not be so into because it's not as huge or dramatic of an effect as the existing Quests, but I think that it's the right decision balance-wise.
Now to give some feedback to the folks who commented. =D
@Connor Swift: I like that you're going the route of interpreting an existing hero as a minion, but I think that your Anduin is overpowered. It would already be a staple even without the cost-reduction mechanic, and that just throws it way over the top. Possibly more importantly, though, I don't feel the effect is particularly innovative. I mean, we can already Discover a card with a cost reduction with Primordial Glyph, and I don't think Anduin's method of doing it is exciting enough to attract attention. Unfortunately, since you've already submitted, I don't think you can make but minor changes.
@Toxibrah: I think this is clever. It's an evocative callback to the existing Edwin but with a new twist by using the new Adapt mechanic. If I had to complain, it'd be that it might not be different' enough from the existing card, but then again multiple adaptations are more different from mere stat bonuses than they sound, and as we see from stuff like Galvadon, it opens up lots of crazy unique possibilities that aren't apparent from such simple wording. Good job, I'll be upvoting this. =)
@Dying Atheist: I like that you're going the route of interpreting an existing hero as a minion, but I think that you're trying to do a lot. Having a battlecry version of Corrupting Mist just isn't unique enough on its own, I don't think, and the Enrage effect seems... pointless? I'd say go back to the drawing board to focus more on going for your idea in a more straightforward manner, but it seems you've already submitted it, so there's only minor changes you can make at this point.
@MrUncreative: Well, the one that I like best is definitely Liadrin, but I feel like other folks won't like that as much as I do. I also like N'Zoth, but it seems... kind of a shame that it'd be played in pretty much the same kinds of decks that the existing N'Zoth is? Like, it seems to fill the exactly same sort of deck role in the exact same sort of deck, so I don't feel like it's different enough a re-imagining to be particularly clever. Your C'Thun I don't think is a good sort of design for the game. It spirals out of control just too easily, though I do love that unlike N'Zoth this one does fill an entirely different, though still perfectly thematically appropriate, role in the game. My recommendation, though I like Liadrin, would be to refine your C'Thun to something more simple.
@booganzoth: I love your Aviana concept. It's similarly formatted to the existing Aviana but fills an entirely different deck role, tech as opposed to ramp, and I think that's really cool. I don't really have anything else to say about it. I'll up-vote it if/when you submit it. =)
Reimagination of Sparky Uberthruster AKA Dr. Boom. Great for mech decks for some anti fatigue control, but not as broken as the original one.
Token:
Reimagination of Wrathion. A card that has weak stats for its cost, but gives a nice reward if you hold a Dragon in your hand, a weapon with a Blade Flurry effect on it.
I love the effect of Justicar Trueheart, but I always thought that it was a shame that It was only used in Warrior and Priest (and sometimes in Paladin) because it was too slow ,so, I came up with the card above and i'm not sure about 2 things: the stats and the name. I know that I want to give her above average stats because your opponet has the initiative with his new Hero Power, and i'm not sure what title is more fitting.
Any Thougs?
(Sorry if i didn't make myself clear, English isn't my first language)
Alright, I've settled on a version of my entry that I'm pretty satisfied with! =D
I removed the part about reducing the minions' costs to (0) because having too powerful of a Battlecry potentially becomes problematic in Rogue because of Shadowstep, etc.
The rest was budgeted via calculations involving Frost Giant and pre-nerf Ancient of Lore, the former because it's a pretty easy connection between using Hero Power usage as cost reduction versus Quest requirement and the latter because the Battlecry is effectively a form of drawing two cards. You may think using pre-nerf Ancient of Lore is unfair because it's so powerful, but on the flip side nobody plays Frost Giant because it's bad, so I think that about evens out.
Note that unlike existing Quests this one doesn't have a HUGE effect. I'm fine with this because, unlike the other Quests, this one is not a build-around. This fits just fine into pretty much any existing late-game deck. Folks might not be so into because it's not as huge or dramatic of an effect as the existing Quests, but I think that it's the right decision balance-wise.
Now to give some feedback to the folks who commented. =D
@Connor Swift: I like that you're going the route of interpreting an existing hero as a minion, but I think that your Anduin is overpowered. It would already be a staple even without the cost-reduction mechanic, and that just throws it way over the top. Possibly more importantly, though, I don't feel the effect is particularly innovative. I mean, we can already Discover a card with a cost reduction with Primordial Glyph, and I don't think Anduin's method of doing it is exciting enough to attract attention. Unfortunately, since you've already submitted, I don't think you can make but minor changes.
@Toxibrah: I think this is clever. It's an evocative callback to the existing Edwin but with a new twist by using the new Adapt mechanic. If I had to complain, it'd be that it might not be different' enough from the existing card, but then again multiple adaptations are more different from mere stat bonuses than they sound, and as we see from stuff like Galvadon, it opens up lots of crazy unique possibilities that aren't apparent from such simple wording. Good job, I'll be upvoting this. =)
@Dying Atheist: I like that you're going the route of interpreting an existing hero as a minion, but I think that you're trying to do a lot. Having a battlecry version of Corrupting Mist just isn't unique enough on its own, I don't think, and the Enrage effect seems... pointless? I'd say go back to the drawing board to focus more on going for your idea in a more straightforward manner, but it seems you've already submitted it, so there's only minor changes you can make at this point.
@MrUncreative: Well, the one that I like best is definitely Liadrin, but I feel like other folks won't like that as much as I do. I also like N'Zoth, but it seems... kind of a shame that it'd be played in pretty much the same kinds of decks that the existing N'Zoth is? Like, it seems to fill the exactly same sort of deck role in the exact same sort of deck, so I don't feel like it's different enough a re-imagining to be particularly clever. Your C'Thun I don't think is a good sort of design for the game. It spirals out of control just too easily, though I do love that unlike N'Zoth this one does fill an entirely different, though still perfectly thematically appropriate, role in the game. My recommendation, though I like Liadrin, would be to refine your C'Thun to something more simple.
@booganzoth: I love your Aviana concept. It's similarly formatted to the existing Aviana but fills an entirely different deck role, tech as opposed to ramp, and I think that's really cool. I don't really have anything else to say about it. I'll up-vote it if/when you submit it. =)
I think it's a sweet use of joust you made there asylum. I'm uncertain about balance - I think it might be slightly overpowered, but only slightly - I'd probably up the number of times to 6. I know it shouldn't, but it bothers me a little with a neutral spell. I think I can look past that considdering the cool Joust Mechanic, though it actually fits pretty well in priest?
It is my understanding that Murozond is, spoiler alert, actually just Nozdormu from the future, right? As they are technically the same character, I think it fits.
Alright, I've settled on a version of my entry that I'm pretty satisfied with! =D
I think it's a sweet use of joust you made there asylum. I'm uncertain about balance - I think it might be slightly overpowered, but only slightly - I'd probably up the number of times to 6. I know it shouldn't, but it bothers me a little with a neutral spell. I think I can look past that considdering the cool Joust Mechanic, though it actually fits pretty well in priest?
I explain more specifically in my submission post how I arrived at 5. =)
"But we haven't seen how Quests play out in practice yet, so how did you balance this?"
By looking at Frost Giant and pre-nerf Ancient of Lore. Yes, pre-nerf Ancient of Lore was very good, but Frost Giant is very bad, so it evens out. To begin, an 8/8 with an effect that reduces its Cost via hero power usage costs ~(10). Next, a high-cost minion that draws two cards is -2/-2 below vanilla, equating to a cost of ~(2), so our starting cost for Mariel before taking the quest into account is ~(12). We want her to cost (5) like all of the other Quest Rewards, so we have to reduce by (7). The quest itself costs (1), and then just like Frost Giant each Hero Power required usage also reduces the cost by (1). You may notice that it would take 6 Hero Power uses, not 5, to knock her cost down to the desired (5), but I knocked one off because, unlike Frost Giant, (A) her cost can't be further reduced by Hero Power uses above and beyond the requirement and (B) the Quest starts in your opening hand and Hero Power uses only count after you play it, meaning this is a guaranteed "dead card" for far longer. I think this is fair.
If anything, I'm thinking I could maybe even get away with reducing the Hero Power uses required to only 4.
"But we haven't seen how Quests play out in practice yet, so how did you balance this?"
By looking at Frost Giant and pre-nerf Ancient of Lore. Yes, pre-nerf Ancient of Lore was very good, but Frost Giant is very bad, so it evens out. To begin, an 8/8 with an effect that reduces its Cost via hero power usage costs ~(10). Next, a high-cost minion that draws two cards is -2/-2 below vanilla, equating to a cost of ~(2), so our starting cost for Mariel before taking the quest into account is ~(12). We want her to cost (5) like all of the other Quest Rewards, so we have to reduce by (7). The quest itself costs (1), and then just like Frost Giant each Hero Power required usage also reduces the cost by (1). You may notice that it would take 6 Hero Power uses, not 5, to knock her cost down to the desired (5), but I knocked one off because, unlike Frost Giant, (A) her cost can't be further reduced by Hero Power uses above and beyond the requirement and (B) the Quest starts in your opening hand and Hero Power uses only count after you play it, meaning this is a guaranteed "dead card" for far longer. I think this is fair.
If anything, I'm thinking I could maybe even get away with reducing the Hero Power uses required to only 4.
I simply thought this was due to some lore or conceptual background (maybe a 5-round-tournament, best of three format - what do i know) but these are some heavy calculations. Neat!
@MrUncreative: Well, the one that I like best is definitely Liadrin, but I feel like other folks won't like that as much as I do. I also like N'Zoth, but it seems... kind of a shame that it'd be played in pretty much the same kinds of decks that the existing N'Zoth is? Like, it seems to fill the exactly same sort of deck role in the exact same sort of deck, so I don't feel like it's different enough a re-imagining to be particularly clever. Your C'Thun I don't think is a good sort of design for the game. It spirals out of control just too easily, though I do love that unlike N'Zoth this one does fill an entirely different, though still perfectly thematically appropriate, role in the game. My recommendation, though I like Liadrin, would be to refine your C'Thun to something more simple.
Thanks a lot. The first version of C'thun was actually a 2 mana 1/1 that gained +1/+1 at the end of every turn - but i agree, i still lingers (haha) heavily towards the auto-win category. I am surprised though - i considered Liadrin to be the far least controversial of the three and thus also probably the one with the best chances. I was personally leaning towards Liadrin too. But i worked on some alternatives for both of them anyways - this is getting out of hand again.
Alternate C'thuns:
Alternate Liadrin:
A little more complex than the first idea - but also far less streamlined. Not sure which one i like more. (Original)
So, i make some changes, add +1 health to the first Illidan, because at 3 there is too many boardclears, so seems a little weak to me in that aspect, same with the second one, thoughts? its the wording right? else what did you guys thing of the art.
I don't think you can make it a neutral quest because it opens up combos a bit too much. It's nice as a Priest or a Paladin card, safer since they tend to run minion heavy decks (less likely to get Malygos OTK stuff). Like the Quest idea a lot though!
SoonTM
How's this fella?
I could be wrong but right now it seems a little over the top to me, considering how many cards actually give you extra cards to benefit from this. Maybe simply lowering the discount would fix the problem.
SoonTM
Double-post apparently. How that happened is beyond me.
SoonTM
Alright, found at least a little time to work on some ideas. Didn't quite manage to browse through the flood of new posts in time though - i was hoping to finish some reviews before submission topic was up. Hopefully discussion posts won't fade out as rapidly as last week so i can still be of service.
A little explanation
Liadrin: Even though i'm far less firm with wow lore than i'd sometimes like to be, i happen to remember some things about Liadrins story (or at least i think i do). I have 1-2 additional ideas for her but those still need some shaping. This one is trying to focus on her strongly valuing unity among her followers and the benefits of that mechanic-wise.
C'thun:
For a long time i've been enjoying the stories of H.P. Lovecraft and the special type of horror they convey. And as C'thun clearly derivates from Cthulhu, i always thought he could do a slightly better job at getting across that concept. After all Cthulhu/C'thun is a being that can't technically be defeated (by humans that is). The possibility of his existence is unnerving and irritating people and merely laying eye on him would be enough to instill madness into ones mind. That's kind of the attempt i'm making here as the danger keeps and keeps on growing and when it finally is unveiled - or rather 'unstealthed' - you have to quickly seal the deal as the presence of such an entity is something neither of the players can comprehend.
N'zoth:
Thanks to you - but actually now that i think abou it, i don't even think it's that unbalanced. After all:
1.) Sylvanas isn't really a thing anymore - plus the most powerful Deathrattles are usually priority-targets for transform-removal and they rarely trigger as easily as i'd wish.
2.) As i remember from playing renozoth mage - making it past turn 10 mostly means you're playing the control game and while playing the control game, getting a lot of additional draw can often hurt you more than it benefits you.
3.) You develop a relatively small body for 10 mana and are reliant on whether you already killed off some powerful Deathrattle-minions or not.
Maybe i could still somehow limit the number of triggerable effects to ease out possible problems, but wow - now that i wrote this down, the card even seems weaker to me than the actual N'zoth...Huh... :D
SoonTM
I think a card like this would come in handy in many, many different situations. Wanted to make it low-cost in case you're dealing with aggro decks, and decent stats so that once the effect wears off, it's still a viable 4-drop minion. Hope you like it!
Alright, I've settled on a version of my entry that I'm pretty satisfied with! =D
I removed the part about reducing the minions' costs to (0) because having too powerful of a Battlecry potentially becomes problematic in Rogue because of Shadowstep, etc.
The rest was budgeted via calculations involving Frost Giant and pre-nerf Ancient of Lore, the former because it's a pretty easy connection between using Hero Power usage as cost reduction versus Quest requirement and the latter because the Battlecry is effectively a form of drawing two cards. You may think using pre-nerf Ancient of Lore is unfair because it's so powerful, but on the flip side nobody plays Frost Giant because it's bad, so I think that about evens out.
Note that unlike existing Quests this one doesn't have a HUGE effect. I'm fine with this because, unlike the other Quests, this one is not a build-around. This fits just fine into pretty much any existing late-game deck. Folks might not be so into because it's not as huge or dramatic of an effect as the existing Quests, but I think that it's the right decision balance-wise.
Now to give some feedback to the folks who commented. =D
@Connor Swift: I like that you're going the route of interpreting an existing hero as a minion, but I think that your Anduin is overpowered. It would already be a staple even without the cost-reduction mechanic, and that just throws it way over the top. Possibly more importantly, though, I don't feel the effect is particularly innovative. I mean, we can already Discover a card with a cost reduction with Primordial Glyph, and I don't think Anduin's method of doing it is exciting enough to attract attention. Unfortunately, since you've already submitted, I don't think you can make but minor changes.
@Toxibrah: I think this is clever. It's an evocative callback to the existing Edwin but with a new twist by using the new Adapt mechanic. If I had to complain, it'd be that it might not be different' enough from the existing card, but then again multiple adaptations are more different from mere stat bonuses than they sound, and as we see from stuff like Galvadon, it opens up lots of crazy unique possibilities that aren't apparent from such simple wording. Good job, I'll be upvoting this. =)
@Dying Atheist: I like that you're going the route of interpreting an existing hero as a minion, but I think that you're trying to do a lot. Having a battlecry version of Corrupting Mist just isn't unique enough on its own, I don't think, and the Enrage effect seems... pointless? I'd say go back to the drawing board to focus more on going for your idea in a more straightforward manner, but it seems you've already submitted it, so there's only minor changes you can make at this point.
@MrUncreative: Well, the one that I like best is definitely Liadrin, but I feel like other folks won't like that as much as I do. I also like N'Zoth, but it seems... kind of a shame that it'd be played in pretty much the same kinds of decks that the existing N'Zoth is? Like, it seems to fill the exactly same sort of deck role in the exact same sort of deck, so I don't feel like it's different enough a re-imagining to be particularly clever. Your C'Thun I don't think is a good sort of design for the game. It spirals out of control just too easily, though I do love that unlike N'Zoth this one does fill an entirely different, though still perfectly thematically appropriate, role in the game. My recommendation, though I like Liadrin, would be to refine your C'Thun to something more simple.
@booganzoth: I love your Aviana concept. It's similarly formatted to the existing Aviana but fills an entirely different deck role, tech as opposed to ramp, and I think that's really cool. I don't really have anything else to say about it. I'll up-vote it if/when you submit it. =)
Vote for my card in the WDC 6.03: Prof. Putricide! Check out the Fan Creations FAQ!
I love the effect of Justicar Trueheart, but I always thought that it was a shame that It was only used in Warrior and Priest (and sometimes in Paladin) because it was too slow ,so, I came up with the card above and i'm not sure about 2 things: the stats and the name. I know that I want to give her above average stats because your opponet has the initiative with his new Hero Power, and i'm not sure what title is more fitting.
Any Thougs?
(Sorry if i didn't make myself clear, English isn't my first language)
If anything, I'm thinking I could maybe even get away with reducing the Hero Power uses required to only 4.
SoonTM
But i worked on some alternatives for both of them anyways - this is getting out of hand again.
A little more complex than the first idea - but also far less streamlined. Not sure which one i like more.
(Original)
SoonTM
Here is what I was kicking around when it occurred to me I might be violating the rules.
Does Harth fall under the restriction for previously unplayable NPC's?
... or more importantly, would my submission be disqualified?