Okay so I don't know if everyone's just drowning in tears right now to assess this properly or if I'm the only person in the thread stupid enough to not understand mechanics but...
Search Thread: 'Duplicate' 0 results found.
Is nobody wondering if killing this with Duplicate in play will trigger a free Flamestrike that hits face as well? Nobody?
Okay so I don't know if everyone's just drowning in tears right now to assess this properly or if I'm the only person in the thread stupid enough to not understand mechanics but...
Search Thread: 'Duplicate' 0 results found.
Is nobody wondering if killing this with Duplicate in play will trigger a free Flamestrike that hits face as well? Nobody?
Duplicate does not "draw" cards from your deck, so it would not. Neither would Echo of Medivh or any kind of Sap mechanic. And it doesn't trigger if you've got it in your opening hand. The effect only triggers when it's pulled from a draw effect.
I'm unconvinced that it's bad. The whole game is going to slow down, that's what Blizzard want to happen with Hearthstone. I think this card could offer up some clutch potential. And it affects the board without costing any mana at all! Sure it could be bad for you but to be honest, we don't know how the meta's going to look and at least right now, we know that mages tend not to play too many minions. This could be interesting, I'm going to wait until the meta settles down before I condemn it. I have a feeling that it's going to be quite a strong pick for some builds!
i think its slightly better than what people give it credit for. but yea its just a more fun version of war golem. i dont see this being used in competitive play but it could bring some interesting scenarios if you mess around with it
What angers me the most is that this card is the CLASS legendary. Make it a neutral one and I don't care but this shit ist the class legendary for the mage which is wrong in so many ways I can't even count them all.
Well at least the developers stuck to the theme of the Flame Leviathan. Was a joke in WoW when it was the opening boss of Ulduar (aka free loot) and it's a joke again as the class legendary for mages in Hearthstone, well played Blizzard!
To the people saying this might be good in a heavy control freeze mage vs aggro deck: This is a LEGENDARY card meaning there can only be one of each in your 30 card deck, this makes depending on this cards effect extremely unreliable. Aggro decks will be smashing your face in to low amounts in about 5 turns. Yes, freeze mage has stall/ draw mechanics in the deck to make the game last longer and draw into Leviathan. My argument is, "Do you really need this card vs aggro in the first place?" If you got Doomsayers/Frost Novas/Ice Barriers you were probably able to stall just fine and if that's the case you are in the late game where you have the advantage in board clears via Frost nova/ Doomsayer/ Blizzard/ Flamestrike anyways. So the Leviathan becomes unnecessary since at this point in the game you were probably in a winning possision anyways/ stabilized the board at the very least. In which case you don't need the extremely lucky/ very unskillful effect of Leviathan in the first place. On top of that vs control/ midrange this card is near worthless. I can only see this card being used in meta where everything is super aggro. Also you are having very wishful thinking that the aggro decks won't run cards like Narubian eggs, Haunted Creepers, and Mad Scientist in order to ruin your day and prevent board wipes in the first place.
Flame Leviathan < Explosive Sheep. At least with Explosive Sheep you can still run a couple of 2 drops in your deck or hold the effect for the best moment.
Damn, you're all pretty crazy about it, aren't you? Let me give you some words of wisdom i learned long ago: Forget about it. It's bad, so what? Shamans got a murloc legendary and don't get me started on Bolvar.
Naw. Bolvar and Murloc-King are way way better.
Neptulon open up a new playstyle of Mur-man.
Bolvar can be very good with the Turn 3 "Muster For Battle" card, etc. A lot of flexibility with the card, and a much better mana value. No BGH, and you can control the effect.
Damn, you're all pretty crazy about it, aren't you? Let me give you some words of wisdom i learned long ago: Forget about it. It's bad, so what? Shamans got a murloc legendary and don't get me started on Bolvar.
Naw. Bolvar and Murloc-King are way way better.
Neptulon open up a new playstyle of Mur-man.
Bolvar can be very good with the Turn 3 "Muster For Battle" card, etc. A lot of flexibility with the card, and a much better mana value. No BGH, and you can control the effect.
So innocent... Let me explain it to you: Neptulon costs 10 mana. A murloc game is over after about 5 rounds, you won or have no board and will lose. This card will change nothing about it and can be killed by BGH as well. Bravo.
Bolvar is a whole new level of stupidity. Paladins lack early game. To give them a card, which is DEAD, if you don't draw it until T3, is not "flexible". And if you draw it, it's dead in your hand as well and you'll be killed before he has decent stats. And did I mention, that he can be silenced as well? And even if you're lucky enough to use it with Muster for Battle, then it's stupid to waste those minions and let them die instantly. It's far better to use them with Quartermaster, and even that is situational.
So stop whining, that you got one bad card among the rest. You're not alone and stop acting like it. I'm out.
Ah, Neptulon is useless for a Murloc deck. Plus Shaman have no card draw? Well, Blizz is trying to push new concepts of Murloc decks, then, aren't they? Shouldn't take too much tinkering to come up with a midrange Murloc deck which uses Neptulon as a re-fill hand card, to keep the pressure going.
Ah, Paladin has no early game.
Well, Blizz added 2 cards to help that, now didn't they?
Blizzard is a business and what do businesses do? They make money! wow!
So how does Hearthstone make money? By selling packs of course! This means that there always has to be bad cards in order to encourage the buying of more packs since if everything was good people would buy less packs. How do we make even more money? Why make rarity levels so rarer cards are hard to get and cost more. But if all the rare cards can't be good because then people would stop somewhere. No we need bad rare cards so even if RNG is on the player side they still have a chance of getting a bad card, thus Flame Leviathan.
This card is just a classical example of marketing 101. Every tcg does this. Every game that profits from rng does this. So this card is perfectly understandable and probably will never be changed.
Blizzard is a business and what do businesses do? They make money! wow!
So how does Hearthstone make money? By selling packs of course! This means that there always has to be bad cards in order to encourage the buying of more packs since if everything was good people would buy less packs. How do we make even more money? Why make rarity levels so rarer cards are hard to get and cost more. But if all the rare cards can't be good because then people would stop somewhere. No we need bad rare cards so even if RNG is on the player side they still have a chance of getting a bad card, thus Flame Leviathan.
This card is just a classical example of marketing 101. Every tcg does this. Every game that profits from rng does this. So this card is perfectly understandable and probably will never be changed.
I disagree with this. If they were looking for more legendary fodder they should have made it a neutral card. Making a great class legendary should make them more money.
To the people saying this might be good in a heavy control freeze mage vs aggro deck: This is a LEGENDARY card meaning there can only be one of each in your 30 card deck, this makes depending on this cards effect extremely unreliable. Aggro decks will be smashing your face in to low amounts in about 5 turns. Yes, freeze mage has stall/ draw mechanics in the deck to make the game last longer and draw into Leviathan. My argument is, "Do you really need this card vs aggro in the first place?" If you got Doomsayers/Frost Novas/Ice Barriers you were probably able to stall just fine and if that's the case you are in the late game where you have the advantage in board clears via Frost nova/ Doomsayer/ Blizzard/ Flamestrike anyways. So the Leviathan becomes unnecessary since at this point in the game you were probably in a winning possision anyways/ stabilized the board at the very least. In which case you don't need the extremely lucky/ very unskillful effect of Leviathan in the first place. On top of that vs control/ midrange this card is near worthless. I can only see this card being used in meta where everything is super aggro. Also you are having very wishful thinking that the aggro decks won't run cards like Narubian eggs, Haunted Creepers, and Mad Scientist in order to ruin your day and prevent board wipes in the first place.
Well yeah, you could say that about every single legendary in the game, and you would have trouble removing powerful deathrattle minions no matter which route you take, that's their whole thing.
Many decks play only 1 copy of multiple cards - regardless of rarity - and are completely fine. Think cards like Big Game Hunter, Mind Control Tech, Cabal Shadow Priest, Stampeding Kodo etc which see play and serve a very specific purpose in the deck, but 2 copies will rarely be used. Mage itself often chooses to run just one Flamestrike, and/or one Blizzard, and it's the same with Flame Leviathan, it may not be an integral part of any deck, but it could serve a specific purpose and it doesn't even have to be played to do so.
So while it's correct that the card may not be needed, and other cards may fit in in it's place and do a more consistent job, that won't necessarily be down to the player only being able to run 1 copy of the card.
I'm torn on the card in any case, I think it's being underrated slightly due to the fear of drawing it at the wrong time but I cannot see it being a staple of many decks.
I'm going to say that yes, while technically speaking you can say the same thing about every legendary in the game however there is one glaring difference in between all the other legendaries in the game and Flame Leviathan. With all the other legendaries in the game YOU can choose when to use the card AND it's effect based upon when YOU think it would be most effective. This brings me to the thing that bothers me most most about Flame Leviathan, the fact that it's effect is used automatically from your hand. The effect cost 0 mana and doesn't even cost a card, just get lucky. I feel that in some ways we're saved in the fact that this effect is so bad. Imagine if something like Sylvanas's effect happened randomly from your hand? Instant broken card that's what, if this card wasn't so bad it would be completely broken and there is no in between with this card effect. The only fair thing about this effect it is that nobody gets time to react since this thing just blows the board up randomly whether you or your opponent like it or not. I'm no game designer but I could thing of many reasons not to set a precedent with this type of effect.
As to whether or not Flame Leviathan has a niche or not that's up to interpretation. Neptulon is a 7/7 minion for 7 mana and overload for 3. It gives you 4 random murlocs from outside your deck (remind you of something? *cough*Webspinner*cough*) which can give stuff like Old Murk-Eye and Murloc Warleader all the way down to Murloc Raider this card can breath life to a Murloc deck that's running out of steam in the late game, so yes there is a niche for that however bad it turns out to be. Bolvar Fordragon has 1/7 worth of stats and gains +1 for every friendly minion death while it is in your hand. Yes this card is a HUGE silence target but that doesn't make it auto bad since the Palidin class has the ability to make you regret silencing too quickly with stuff like Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Might, and Blessing of Champions plus with Quartermaster and Muster for Battle coming up I can see a buff Palidin making an appearance one of these days down the road with Bolvar as a possible candidate, so yes there's a niche for him too. Now you have to ask yourself, is there going to be a niche where mage deck needs a completely unpredictable 2/3rdsof a hellire with a 7/7 mech attached? I know it's too early on in the expansion's life span and there is room for the meta to shift a lot but as of now I can't see a future where Flame Leviathan won't fade into total obscurity.
Okay so I don't know if everyone's just drowning in tears right now to assess this properly or if I'm the only person in the thread stupid enough to not understand mechanics but...
Search Thread: 'Duplicate'
0 results found.
Is nobody wondering if killing this with Duplicate in play will trigger a free Flamestrike that hits face as well? Nobody?
Duplicate does not "draw" cards from your deck, so it would not. Neither would Echo of Medivh or any kind of Sap mechanic. And it doesn't trigger if you've got it in your opening hand. The effect only triggers when it's pulled from a draw effect.
I think someone on the official forums put it best, this card is a hate crime against Mages.
I would honestly, HONESTLY have preferred to NOT EVEN GET a class legendary than to get this.
RRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGEEEEEEEE
I'm unconvinced that it's bad.
The whole game is going to slow down, that's what Blizzard want to happen with Hearthstone.
I think this card could offer up some clutch potential. And it affects the board without costing any mana at all! Sure it could be bad for you but to be honest, we don't know how the meta's going to look and at least right now, we know that mages tend not to play too many minions.
This could be interesting, I'm going to wait until the meta settles down before I condemn it. I have a feeling that it's going to be quite a strong pick for some builds!
i think its slightly better than what people give it credit for. but yea its just a more fun version of war golem. i dont see this being used in competitive play but it could bring some interesting scenarios if you mess around with it
I tweeted Ben Brode about this "Please explain how this Legend fits the Mage class at all and is not absolutely terrible!!!!" No word back :(
I think this card is in the wrong class. It would make more sense as a warrior legend.
I think blizzard is trying to pull some big minion deck for mages. Still, it's barely playable.
What angers me the most is that this card is the CLASS legendary. Make it a neutral one and I don't care but this shit ist the class legendary for the mage which is wrong in so many ways I can't even count them all.
Well at least the developers stuck to the theme of the Flame Leviathan. Was a joke in WoW when it was the opening boss of Ulduar (aka free loot) and it's a joke again as the class legendary for mages in Hearthstone, well played Blizzard!
Is this more than you bargained for, yeah?
To the people saying this might be good in a heavy control freeze mage vs aggro deck: This is a LEGENDARY card meaning there can only be one of each in your 30 card deck, this makes depending on this cards effect extremely unreliable. Aggro decks will be smashing your face in to low amounts in about 5 turns. Yes, freeze mage has stall/ draw mechanics in the deck to make the game last longer and draw into Leviathan. My argument is, "Do you really need this card vs aggro in the first place?" If you got Doomsayers/Frost Novas/Ice Barriers you were probably able to stall just fine and if that's the case you are in the late game where you have the advantage in board clears via Frost nova/ Doomsayer/ Blizzard/ Flamestrike anyways. So the Leviathan becomes unnecessary since at this point in the game you were probably in a winning possision anyways/ stabilized the board at the very least. In which case you don't need the extremely lucky/ very unskillful effect of Leviathan in the first place. On top of that vs control/ midrange this card is near worthless. I can only see this card being used in meta where everything is super aggro. Also you are having very wishful thinking that the aggro decks won't run cards like Narubian eggs, Haunted Creepers, and Mad Scientist in order to ruin your day and prevent board wipes in the first place.
Flame Leviathan < Explosive Sheep. At least with Explosive Sheep you can still run a couple of 2 drops in your deck or hold the effect for the best moment.
Signed! We just need 10 more people - GUYS PLEASE SIGN THIS!!!
Naw. Bolvar and Murloc-King are way way better.
Neptulon open up a new playstyle of Mur-man.
Bolvar can be very good with the Turn 3 "Muster For Battle" card, etc. A lot of flexibility with the card, and a much better mana value. No BGH, and you can control the effect.
Ah, Neptulon is useless for a Murloc deck. Plus Shaman have no card draw? Well, Blizz is trying to push new concepts of Murloc decks, then, aren't they? Shouldn't take too much tinkering to come up with a midrange Murloc deck which uses Neptulon as a re-fill hand card, to keep the pressure going.
Ah, Paladin has no early game.
Well, Blizz added 2 cards to help that, now didn't they?
People still trying to argue that this one isn't the worst class legendary ?! Neptulon may be just as bad, but Bolvar is far better than both.
Guys, this card absolutely fits into the game.
Blizzard is a business and what do businesses do? They make money! wow!
So how does Hearthstone make money? By selling packs of course! This means that there always has to be bad cards in order to encourage the buying of more packs since if everything was good people would buy less packs. How do we make even more money? Why make rarity levels so rarer cards are hard to get and cost more. But if all the rare cards can't be good because then people would stop somewhere. No we need bad rare cards so even if RNG is on the player side they still have a chance of getting a bad card, thus Flame Leviathan.
This card is just a classical example of marketing 101. Every tcg does this. Every game that profits from rng does this. So this card is perfectly understandable and probably will never be changed.
I disagree with this. If they were looking for more legendary fodder they should have made it a neutral card. Making a great class legendary should make them more money.
You should make a thread on the official blizzard forums featuring the petition.
It only needs 1 more signature!! I hope this is linked to the Paladin thread.
I'm going to say that yes, while technically speaking you can say the same thing about every legendary in the game however there is one glaring difference in between all the other legendaries in the game and Flame Leviathan. With all the other legendaries in the game YOU can choose when to use the card AND it's effect based upon when YOU think it would be most effective. This brings me to the thing that bothers me most most about Flame Leviathan, the fact that it's effect is used automatically from your hand. The effect cost 0 mana and doesn't even cost a card, just get lucky. I feel that in some ways we're saved in the fact that this effect is so bad. Imagine if something like Sylvanas's effect happened randomly from your hand? Instant broken card that's what, if this card wasn't so bad it would be completely broken and there is no in between with this card effect. The only fair thing about this effect it is that nobody gets time to react since this thing just blows the board up randomly whether you or your opponent like it or not. I'm no game designer but I could thing of many reasons not to set a precedent with this type of effect.
As to whether or not Flame Leviathan has a niche or not that's up to interpretation. Neptulon is a 7/7 minion for 7 mana and overload for 3. It gives you 4 random murlocs from outside your deck (remind you of something? *cough*Webspinner*cough*) which can give stuff like Old Murk-Eye and Murloc Warleader all the way down to Murloc Raider this card can breath life to a Murloc deck that's running out of steam in the late game, so yes there is a niche for that however bad it turns out to be. Bolvar Fordragon has 1/7 worth of stats and gains +1 for every friendly minion death while it is in your hand. Yes this card is a HUGE silence target but that doesn't make it auto bad since the Palidin class has the ability to make you regret silencing too quickly with stuff like Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Might, and Blessing of Champions plus with Quartermaster and Muster for Battle coming up I can see a buff Palidin making an appearance one of these days down the road with Bolvar as a possible candidate, so yes there's a niche for him too. Now you have to ask yourself, is there going to be a niche where mage deck needs a completely unpredictable 2/3rds of a hellire with a 7/7 mech attached? I know it's too early on in the expansion's life span and there is room for the meta to shift a lot but as of now I can't see a future where Flame Leviathan won't fade into total obscurity.