Did not know that! Ouch! Guess my old headmaster was right, only some of us can learn from other people's mistakes, the rest of us have to be the other people. Sucks when you have to be the one doing the teaching
The card text is logically misleading. The Battlecry of played minions always takes place before secrets activate (i.e. Snipe will destroy an Earthen Ring Farseer only after the heal has taken place). At the point where Repentance activates, the Battlecry has completely finished, and Lord Jaraxxus is no longer a Minion, but has become a Hero (as Eye for an Eye will deal damage to him), so Secrets shouldn't affect him.
The easiest way to explain these interactions is that Lord Jaraxxus is summoned as a minion, and then his battlecry takes effect, changing him into a hero. In this way he isn't affected by cards like Demonfire or Shadow Word: Pain but is still affected by those secrets (Mirror Entity, Snipe, Repentance and Eye for an Eye).
Interestingly, he is still affected by Sacrificial Pact, as he is a Demon even as a hero.
This kinda makes me think about a situation. Try to stay with me haha.
Voidcaller ends up playing Lord Jaraxxus from a warlock's hand, so he remains a minion. Later, Paladin takes Jaraxxus with Sylvvanas or Mind Control Tech, and then proceeds to Youthful Brewmaster him. Then, paladin plays Lord Jaraxxus, becomes Lord Jaraxxus, and also plays Redemption. Will Lord Jaraxxus come back to life with 1 health when he dies? Or is he only considered a "demon" hero, and not a minion at all.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
With mirror entity mage will only have 3/15 jarraxus minion, right? I suppose it's the same as playing defender of argus that buffs your minions, but mage get only the 2/3 body without special effect from mirror entity.
The card text is logically misleading. The Battlecry of played minions always takes place before secrets activate (i.e. Snipe will destroy an Earthen Ring Farseer only after the heal has taken place). At the point where Repentance activates, the Battlecry has completely finished, and Lord Jaraxxus is no longer a Minion, but has become a Hero (as Eye for an Eye will deal damage to him), so Secrets shouldn't affect him.
Instant effects are stacked in Hearthstone, just like they are in Yu-Gi-Oh or MTG. In order to understand how this works, you have to think of the effects in the order they stacked.
1. The Secret Repentance gets triggered due to the minion being played. 2. The minion has a Battlecry which takes effect.
When resolving the stack, the order is reversed. However in Hearthstone there is no negation of cards/effects (except for Counterspell). This means that the resolution happens in this order:
1. The minion's Battlecry takes effect. In this case, Jaraxxus becomes the hero. 2. The Secret Repentance resolves, changing the minion's health to one. Because there is no negation of cards/effects, Repentance still targets Jaraxxus.
If this were a different game like Yu-Gi-Oh, you could argue that the secret did nothing since the card being targeted is no longer in play. However, In Hearthstone the heroes are still in play so the targeting was never lost. This is the same reason Shadow Word: Death or Execute can hit Spellbender. Spellbender doesn't cause the spells to check their validity again. It just changes the target of the spell. The spell still takes effect even though the target is invalid, killing the minion.
The easiest way to explain these interactions is that Lord Jaraxxus is summoned as a minion, and then his battlecry takes effect, changing him into a hero. In this way he isn't affected by cards like Demonfire or Shadow Word: Pain but is still affected by those secrets (Mirror Entity, Snipe, Repentance and Eye for an Eye).
Interestingly, he is still affected by Sacrificial Pact, as he is a Demon even as a hero.
That doesn't explain anything at all - it's exactly what I said. His Battlecry changes him to a Hero, so he should never be affected by Mirror Entity, Snipe, and Repentance, which all activate after Battlecries, and have Minion in their card text, not Character.
He is still affected by Sacrificial Pact because his type is Hero, but also retains the race of Demon
I think your post is probably the most concise description of the effect stacks I've read. Well done sir!
@Notso
I agree about Spellbender and those spells. It doesn't "feel right" when she dies to 'em. I know I was surprised the first time that happened. I figured they would be retargetted and then revalidated, but nope, just kills her off.
I absolutely agree. Since it is a new target it feels like the spell should revalidate itself, but it doesn't. That's the way Hearthstone made it, so we've just got to accept that and plan accordingly.
I absolutely agree. Since it is a new target it feels like the spell should revalidate itself, but it doesn't. That's the way Hearthstone made it, so we've just got to accept that and plan accordingly.
Yeah, in this way wouldn't Spellbender become a 3/5 if a Warlock cast Demonfire on one of his own Demons? That really feels off... OTL
I absolutely agree. Since it is a new target it feels like the spell should revalidate itself, but it doesn't. That's the way Hearthstone made it, so we've just got to accept that and plan accordingly.
Yeah, in this way wouldn't Spellbender become a 3/5 if a Warlock cast Demonfire on one of his own Demons? That really feels off... OTL
Lol, nobody plays Demonfire, but you're right. It would also begin to laugh hysterically right before going on a rampage.
I just played Jaraxxus in a Warlock arena deck. I was at 7 health and 10 mana when I played him
I played Jaraxxus for 9 mana and used my one remaining mana to play an Elven Archer to kill an enemy minion.
However, instead of resetting my life to 15, it reset my health to 1.
My Paladin opponent consecrated and won the game.
What gives?
Yeah, I'm an idiot.
Just figured this out on my own.
Repentance. Didn't realize it could do that. F you Jaraxxus!
Sounds like Repentance got you.
play Elven Archer first ftw
Did he by chance have Repentance (Secret) out?
Since Jaraxxus is a minion with a battlecry, it will be affacted
EDIT: Should have reloaded the thread before replying :b
sorry you had to learn the hard way
i prefer handlock over zoo.
Bwahahahaha! Great story, that's hilarious. Can't say I would have predicted Rependence in an arena match, that's for sure.
Did not know that! Ouch! Guess my old headmaster was right, only some of us can learn from other people's mistakes, the rest of us have to be the other people. Sucks when you have to be the one doing the teaching
The card text is logically misleading. The Battlecry of played minions always takes place before secrets activate (i.e. Snipe will destroy an Earthen Ring Farseer only after the heal has taken place). At the point where Repentance activates, the Battlecry has completely finished, and Lord Jaraxxus is no longer a Minion, but has become a Hero (as Eye for an Eye will deal damage to him), so Secrets shouldn't affect him.
Either Secrets should activate before Battlecries, Lord Jaraxxus should not be affected by Mirror Entity, Snipe, or Repentance, or he should not be damaged by Eye for an Eye.
I refuse to come up with a creative signature.
The easiest way to explain these interactions is that Lord Jaraxxus is summoned as a minion, and then his battlecry takes effect, changing him into a hero. In this way he isn't affected by cards like Demonfire or Shadow Word: Pain but is still affected by those secrets (Mirror Entity, Snipe, Repentance and Eye for an Eye).
Interestingly, he is still affected by Sacrificial Pact, as he is a Demon even as a hero.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
This kinda makes me think about a situation. Try to stay with me haha.
Voidcaller ends up playing Lord Jaraxxus from a warlock's hand, so he remains a minion. Later, Paladin takes Jaraxxus with Sylvvanas or Mind Control Tech, and then proceeds to Youthful Brewmaster him. Then, paladin plays Lord Jaraxxus, becomes Lord Jaraxxus, and also plays Redemption. Will Lord Jaraxxus come back to life with 1 health when he dies? Or is he only considered a "demon" hero, and not a minion at all.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
With mirror entity mage will only have 3/15 jarraxus minion, right? I suppose it's the same as playing defender of argus that buffs your minions, but mage get only the 2/3 body without special effect from mirror entity.
Only? A 3/15 minion is pretty big haha
Caution: Steep Incline (Ramp Druid)
Instant effects are stacked in Hearthstone, just like they are in Yu-Gi-Oh or MTG. In order to understand how this works, you have to think of the effects in the order they stacked.
1. The Secret Repentance gets triggered due to the minion being played.
2. The minion has a Battlecry which takes effect.
When resolving the stack, the order is reversed. However in Hearthstone there is no negation of cards/effects (except for Counterspell). This means that the resolution happens in this order:
1. The minion's Battlecry takes effect. In this case, Jaraxxus becomes the hero.
2. The Secret Repentance resolves, changing the minion's health to one. Because there is no negation of cards/effects, Repentance still targets Jaraxxus.
If this were a different game like Yu-Gi-Oh, you could argue that the secret did nothing since the card being targeted is no longer in play. However, In Hearthstone the heroes are still in play so the targeting was never lost. This is the same reason Shadow Word: Death or Execute can hit Spellbender. Spellbender doesn't cause the spells to check their validity again. It just changes the target of the spell. The spell still takes effect even though the target is invalid, killing the minion.
That doesn't explain anything at all - it's exactly what I said. His Battlecry changes him to a Hero, so he should never be affected by Mirror Entity, Snipe, and Repentance, which all activate after Battlecries, and have Minion in their card text, not Character.
He is still affected by Sacrificial Pact because his type is Hero, but also retains the race of Demon
I refuse to come up with a creative signature.
Thank you, an explanation that actually makes some amount of sense:
It still doesn't "feel right" to me - to be honest I feel like Execute and Shadow Word: Death should be pulled by Spellbender, but have no effect.
I refuse to come up with a creative signature.
@smalls2004
I think your post is probably the most concise description of the effect stacks I've read. Well done sir!
@Notso
I agree about Spellbender and those spells. It doesn't "feel right" when she dies to 'em. I know I was surprised the first time that happened. I figured they would be retargetted and then revalidated, but nope, just kills her off.
I absolutely agree. Since it is a new target it feels like the spell should revalidate itself, but it doesn't. That's the way Hearthstone made it, so we've just got to accept that and plan accordingly.
Yeah, in this way wouldn't Spellbender become a 3/5 if a Warlock cast Demonfire on one of his own Demons? That really feels off... OTL
I refuse to come up with a creative signature.
Lol, nobody plays Demonfire, but you're right. It would also begin to laugh hysterically right before going on a rampage.
Nobody plays Repentance either (;
I refuse to come up with a creative signature.