2 mana 2/3 "Reveal the bottom card of your opponent's deck."
That's legitimately good enough to run in the 2 slot right now for Warlock. Gives you info for what you don't have to play around. Not great but certainly playable until something better comes around.
There is also the small tilt factor potential which is also satisfying.
Yeah, that's actually an elegant way of thinking about the card. Though I really do question how useful that is. You have doomsayers, crawlers, ooze, defile....
Thank you.
By "2 drop" I mean something you actually want to play on turn 2. Doomsayer, Golakka, Ooze, and Defile are great and cost 2 mana but you generally hold onto those cards until the moment is right.
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
2 mana 2/3 "Reveal the bottom card of your opponent's deck."
That's legitimately good enough to run in the 2 slot right now for Warlock. Gives you info for what you don't have to play around. Not great but certainly playable until something better comes around.
There is also the small tilt factor potential which is also satisfying.
Yeah, that's actually an elegant way of thinking about the card. Though I really do question how useful that is. You have doomsayers, crawlers, ooze, defile....
Thank you.
When I say 2 slot, I meant something you'd actually want to play on turn 2. Doomsayer, Golakka, Ooze, and Defile are great but are often best held until the opportunity arises. There really isn't anything else for Warlock on turn 2 except hero power now that Peddler is out.
Gnomeferatu is an okay tempo play that has a high probability to provide useful information and a very small probability to tilt your opponent. I suspect most people trashing this card are not Standard Warlock players. Other classes have much better 2 drops and in Wild this is outclassed heavily by Peddler, Haunted Creeper, etc.
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
2 mana 2/3 "Reveal the bottom card of your opponent's deck."
That's legitimately good enough to run in the 2 slot right now for Warlock. Gives you info for what you don't have to play around. Not great but certainly playable until something better comes around.
There is also the small tilt factor potential which is also satisfying.
Yeah, that's actually an elegant way of thinking about the card. Though I really do question how useful that is. You have doomsayers, crawlers, ooze, defile....
Thank you.
When I say 2 slot, I meant something you'd actually want to play on turn 2. Doomsayer, Golakka, Ooze, and Defile are great but are often best held until the opportunity arises. There really isn't anything else for Warlock on turn 2 except hero power now that Peddler is out.
Gnomeferatu is an okay tempo play that has a high probability to provide useful information and a very small probability to tilt your opponent. I suspect most people trashing this card are not Standard Warlock players. Other classes have much better 2 drops and in Wild this is outclassed heavily by Peddler, Haunted Creeper, etc.
I would beg to differ.
I don't think this card gives you any tempo in the game. I would dismiss the notion of tilting your opponent. Trying to make your opponent tilt is like those chess players who taps their pieces in a specific manner to quicken their opponents' thinking and forcing errors out of them. While this could not be proved cheating, it is very unsportsmanlike, and therefore not encouraged. Also, these "tricks" will most instantly lose effect when your opponent realizes what you are doing.
As for information revealing, I wonder how many times you would be unable to determine what your opponent's deck is by turn 2 or turn 3. Barring some bizarre homebrew, which the revealed "one card" won't help anyway, most deck are easy to read. Now, if this effect happens BEFORE the mulligan, then that's huge. I can make my mulligan decisions based on whether my opponent is playing aggro or control, and keep or throw away cards that may not be useful in the respective matchup. But this is simply not the case.
In addition, even if you revealed tech cards, is it gonna help you make play decisions later on? I don't think so. Say, you revealed a Gluttonous Ooze in your opponent's deck, and you know for sure that he/she is playing highlander priest. After a couple of turns, you have a decision to make: "Do I play this Assassin's Blade?" (yea, bizarre, you won't even put this into your deck. But just for example purpose) If I spend my whole turn playing the blade, I could still get blown out by Acidic Swamp Ooze. Worse, if my opponent isn't a netdecker and puts Harrison Jones into the deck, do I risk it? But hey, maybe the only tech card against weapons is the lone Gluttonous Ooze, and I am being a fool here.... So you see, it really doesn't help. Worse, if you are playing Pirate Warriors, their deck is packed with redundancy in mind. Revealing one of the cards in that deck does not help. Removing one of the cards in that deck does not help.
Even if you ZOMG F'ING REMOVED Archmage Antonidas ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG, is that good enough to warrant including a card that literally does nothing in other matchups into your deck? Yes, you can remove one of those DeathKnight Hero cards from your opponent's deck, but it is just equally likely that they will never draw into that card unless the game goes to fatigue.
You've mentioned the lack of 2-drops in warlock card pool, but the most effective play of warlock on turn-2, barring Zoolock, is tap to draw a card. It helps dig deeper into your deck, gives you more information that could instantly be of use, and adds a card into your hand. A River Crocolisk just doesn't do that. You need a very good reason to put a crocolisk into a constructed deck, and what you've mentioned is simply not good enough.
2 mana 2/3 "Reveal the bottom card of your opponent's deck."
That's legitimately good enough to run in the 2 slot right now for Warlock. Gives you info for what you don't have to play around. Not great but certainly playable until something better comes around.
There is also the small tilt factor potential which is also satisfying.
Yeah, that's actually an elegant way of thinking about the card. Though I really do question how useful that is. You have doomsayers, crawlers, ooze, defile....
Thank you.
When I say 2 slot, I meant something you'd actually want to play on turn 2. Doomsayer, Golakka, Ooze, and Defile are great but are often best held until the opportunity arises. There really isn't anything else for Warlock on turn 2 except hero power now that Peddler is out.
Gnomeferatu is an okay tempo play that has a high probability to provide useful information and a very small probability to tilt your opponent. I suspect most people trashing this card are not Standard Warlock players. Other classes have much better 2 drops and in Wild this is outclassed heavily by Peddler, Haunted Creeper, etc.
Yes, because it's not like when you actually know the complete decklist(which your opponent does) the info gained benefits you more than it does the other guy right?
So people are still debating and saying this card is good? the only way this card is good is in a mill deck, but warlock is just the worst class to build a mill deck.. it is literally the last of the 9 classes you would build a mill deck.. your hero power gets you closer to fatigue than your opponent.. unless you get more support of this mill mechanic instead of the "your hand is full" way to mill, this card will never be better than "bad" or "dust it".. people don't play river croc, and even river croc is a beast, so more synergy than this non demon card.. people forget how fel river was good in mech mage, shaman and druid.. and it milled 9, 12, 15 cards of your deck.. and a lot of times won you the game on its own..
Since I started running the card, it had only once burned a good card for my opponent. Their C'Thun.
I still enjoy the card though, if only to gather a bit of info.
Just a question, will their "If C'thun is 10/10 or up" cards still work after you burned C'Thun?
Yeah, it still buffs the card. Doomcaller is probably part of why, even if they don't run that card. After I burned their card, their future cards kept buffing it.
Deck order isnt done server side at start of each game. You draw every turn random card from your deck. Its just visuals that let you see that u draw top card. Because deck order is random after shuffle in physical game how is it diffwrent to draw top card or draw random card
It's basically irrelevant how the order is handled, because either way you have no way of predicting what the next card will be or interact with what is more likely to be drawn. For all we know, we might as well consider it completely random until you actually see the card. But why would you expect the average hearthpwner to grasp this?
Deck order isnt done server side at start of each game. You draw every turn random card from your deck. Its just visuals that let you see that u draw top card. Because deck order is random after shuffle in physical game how is it diffwrent to draw top card or draw random card
It's basically irrelevant how the order is handled, because either way you have no way of predicting what the next card will be or interact with what is more likely to be drawn. For all we know, we might as well consider it completely random until you actually see the card. But why would you expect the average hearthpwner to grasp this?
Right, but I gave this this card a Meta-Defining! ranking based on what it represents rather then what it actually does. This marks the first time in the post-beta game that you can remove cards from your opponent's deck without it substantially negatively effecting your own (Skulking Geist effects both decks equally and only for spells).
Now that the dust has settled we can see that this card really did live up to its name as the shame of the Hearthstone community.
It's sad because it is a card that is very easy to evaluate with math. You don't need meta knowledge or whatever. You just need to understand this card has on average the exact same effect of one that'd read: destroy the bottom card from your opponent's deck, and that is a pretty poor battlecry.
I truly think that this card has some potential in the near future. I'm trying my best to build a final version of control/fatigue Warlock because the new DK allows this strategy with Siphon Life hero power. Most of my games are going to fatigue and in these situations this adorable vampire lady starts to shine and really makes sense. Maybe she needs an another expansion or just need to wait until the meta settles down. Who knows... maybe we'll seen a mill warlock pretty soon.
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Playing Hearthstone since Oct 2015. Favourite class: Warlock.
Aaaand I have 99 skills, but the english language ain't one. :D
2 things can make the effect remove the bottom card from your opponent's deck good:
games reliably going to fatigue
a mechanic related to positioning cards in the deck
In that case, the card can be pretty good. Without that, the card is garbage.
There's actually another thing that could. If Blizz added a bunch of cards that could be tutored out for free like patches. For example a 4/5 for 4 with text "Summon all copies of this minion from your deck" etc. Although I doubt blizz would ever release enough of these types of cards in one set for the one mill to be worth anything.
so far i have seen gnomerferu in play excpet in wild mill lock which didnt really work maybe in future it will be more.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
Since I started running the card, it had only once burned a good card for my opponent. Their C'Thun.
I still enjoy the card though, if only to gather a bit of info.
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
So people are still debating and saying this card is good? the only way this card is good is in a mill deck, but warlock is just the worst class to build a mill deck.. it is literally the last of the 9 classes you would build a mill deck.. your hero power gets you closer to fatigue than your opponent.. unless you get more support of this mill mechanic instead of the "your hand is full" way to mill, this card will never be better than "bad" or "dust it".. people don't play river croc, and even river croc is a beast, so more synergy than this non demon card.. people forget how fel river was good in mech mage, shaman and druid.. and it milled 9, 12, 15 cards of your deck.. and a lot of times won you the game on its own..
Yeah, a toast!
I just revisited this thread to say, even though this card might not be good I hate it... i really hate it
Now that the dust has settled we can see that this card really did live up to its name as the shame of the Hearthstone community.
I truly think that this card has some potential in the near future. I'm trying my best to build a final version of control/fatigue Warlock because the new DK allows this strategy with Siphon Life hero power. Most of my games are going to fatigue and in these situations this adorable vampire lady starts to shine and really makes sense. Maybe she needs an another expansion or just need to wait until the meta settles down. Who knows... maybe we'll seen a mill warlock pretty soon.
Playing Hearthstone since Oct 2015. Favourite class: Warlock.
Aaaand I have 99 skills, but the english language ain't one. :D
2 things can make the effect remove the bottom card from your opponent's deck good:
In that case, the card can be pretty good. Without that, the card is garbage.
It's so funny to see how 70% of this forum voted for this card to be either 'Very Good' or even 'Meta-Defining'. What a nice epic River Crocolisk!