Out of all the cancerous cards out there, this is the one you want to pick a fight with? Seriously?
Welp, the vote results speak for themselves...
I personally have no issue with BGH. Never did, never will. This was a hot topic buzzing in the heads of a number of people that I wanted to address.
Keep your silly assumptions to yourself.
What assumption are you referring to? My post is quite loud and clear, BGH is not a card that ruins game play in such a terrific way. Consider fighting a druid who will play turn two Innervate + Coin into Fel Reaver. Or someone plays alarm-o-bot into Deathwing turn 3 into turn 4 (with coin)...BGH is that noxious?
As previously stated, I have no issues with BGH. He's helpful, and I like that. He's a decent tempo play as well, immune to Shadow Word cards when the attack isn't altered, so on and so forth. This card was brought up by a number of people who wish for a nerf to come down when the next expansion rolls around. You had assumed I have a problem with the card, that's the assumption I'm speaking of. I merely wanted to shed light on ideas as to how to best nerf such a card if a nerf was necessary. I think my version is pretty cool because it helps keep the card in check to a degree. If you want to come back on the board, you enlist the help of the almighty BGH. I think it's a cool way to come back to some degree.
But really, this was just a discussion on nerfing BGH. I have no problems with him. I just think talking about a revision is cool, considering a number of people don't like him, and the consensus suggests that the only issue with BGH is that he negatively impacts card design. It's likely a nerf could take place, really. I just wanted to talk about such a thing with a few people, yourself included.
Oh I see, I was a bit too aggressive when I initially posted. No harm intended mate,
If you put it like that, then yeah, who knows what changes will be necessary with the next Standard mode and new expansion. On Hearthhead this card shows to be used in 13% of all decks. The class that utilizes it the most is probably Control War, and midrange druid + all reno decks. So nerfing it will have a small impact on the overall game, I`d say.
To be honest, a smaller card pool could make BGH STRONGER as it turns out, because there's less to choose from, and that means fewer big minions, which means BGH dominates even more so than ever before.
What a caveat! Less target means BGH becoming stronger? omg
I guess it was meant in the sense that there will be only one BGH target per deck, so that BGh will always kill the Big Guy and can't be "baited" with a smaller Big guy (like Boom or baron geddon). Most decks will just have one Big guy and he will be sniped by BGH.
But as I stated above, I disagree with BGH being stronger when Dr. Boom leaves the field.
I actually think we just need to make it less good when not hitting a target so at least it's a strong detriment to your deck to have it in there when it doesn't have a target, since it's such an insane swing when it does.
In order to do that I believe we should make it cost 5 mana....that's it...so easy :P
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What is Hearthstone to you? A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
I actually think we just need to make it less good when not hitting a target so at least it's a strong detriment to your deck to have it in there when it doesn't have a target, since it's such an insane swing when it does.
In order to do that I believe we should make it cost 5 mana....that's it...so easy :P
BGH actually has a drawback. If your opponent doesn't have a target, but you have a 7 attack minion, BGH has to kill your minion to be played. Admitted, this is not often the case.
Hearthstone lacks depth. You specially notice this if you watched the European Winter prelims. There is no concistency among pros not because they lack skill but because the lack of depth and the amount of RNG.
With cards like this it's not enough to think 1 step ahead (where do I use BGH) but now you need to consider that the opponent might get his minion back and you need to think about what your answer to that might be.
Maybe you won't use the BGH at this point in time but instead trade minions?
The depth increases alot by things like this and I have hoped for cards like this.
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but without BGH, Handlock simply get out of control. As much as many people want him to be gone, Handlock would need a nerf too.
The problem of BGH is that he provides a body that's too good with the effect. A 4/2 body together with an destroy an minion-effect is too strong. Even if you have an deck that doesn't have 7+ attack minions, it does trade at least with all other 3 mana minions. That's the problem.
BGH should stay at it is, BUT instead of an 4/2 body, it should be a 2/2 body.
Adding BGH should penalty a player, but a 4/2 body is not really a penalty.
BGHs problem is that the card alone makes 80% of the 7+ attack Legendaries in the game unplayable. Unless your big Legendary does something immediately when played you are likely to lose the game to the massive tempo loss you got from getting your bg drop BGHed.
That is why out of all 7+ attack Legendaries in the game only Boom and Rag see play basically. And Grom. With BGH nerfed we would finally see some diversity like Prophet Velen, Illidan, Mekgineer Thermaplugg etc. Legendaries that are cool, with cool effects, but dont see play because the loss of playing them is too big if they die immediately.
Oh, and Baron Geddon. And Prophet Velen is played in Mind blast priest. And Alexstrasza, and the giants (though, no legendaries), and Mal'Ganis, and Rafaam saw some play. And Nefarian. But yes, out of all 7+attack only these few saw play...
Edit: Illidan, Mekgeneer and the rest of the unplayed legendaries are not "not played" because of BGH. They are simply not making the cut because they are not good enough.
Maybe change Big Game Hunter's text to "Battlecry: Destroy a Giant." as it's always pointed out that he's necessary to counter Handlock but way too powerful otherwise.
Changing his attack to 2 would make him less of a threat after already getting insane value from him.
Or make him deal 4 damage to 7+ attack minions. Or make him something like a (4) Mana 2/1 and change the text to "Battlecry: Choose a minion and deal damage to it equal to it's attack value." which, with too good stats, could probably be OP though.
Maybe change Big Game Hunter's text to "Battlecry: Destroy a Giant." as it's always pointed out that he's necessary to counter Handlock but way too powerful otherwise.
Changing his attack to 2 would make him less of a threat after already getting insane value from him.
Or make him deal 4 damage to 7+ attack minions. Or make him something like a (4) Mana 2/1 and change the text to "Battlecry: Choose a minion and deal damage to it equal to it's attack value." which, with too good stats, could probably be OP though.
Ha, a walking Lightbomb. Probably OP. He wouldn't kill only 7 attack minions, but he could be used to kill weaker minions as well (6 or less attack). So Emperor, Loatheb, Blackwing corruptor, azure drake would all die to him. Double autoinclude in any deck that is not purely aggro/face, I'd guess.
BGHs problem is that the card alone makes 80% of the 7+ attack Legendaries in the game unplayable. Unless your big Legendary does something immediately when played you are likely to lose the game to the massive tempo loss you got from getting your bg drop BGHed.
That is why out of all 7+ attack Legendaries in the game only Boom and Rag see play basically. And Grom. With BGH nerfed we would finally see some diversity like Prophet Velen, Illidan, Mekgineer Thermaplugg etc. Legendaries that are cool, with cool effects, but dont see play because the loss of playing them is too big if they die immediately.
Oh, and Baron Geddon. And Prophet Velen is played in Mind blast priest. And Alexstrasza, and the giants (though, no legendaries), and Mal'Ganis, and Rafaam saw some play. And Nefarian. But yes, out of all 7+attack only these few saw play...
Edit: Illidan, Mekgeneer and the rest of the unplayed legendaries are not "not played" because of BGH. They are simply not making the cut because they are not good enough.
All you mentioned are played because they have an immediate effect. Freeze Mage would play Alexstrasza even if the body was 3/3. Mind Blast Velen Priests never ever play Velen until the turn they're winning - I've almost never ever actually seen Velen attack. He might just as well have been a 7 mana priest Spell. Geddon same thing, he clears trash instantly and is something of a removal bait in CW only. With Rafaam you're after his discovery. Nefarian gives you tempo/lasting power in form of 2 spells (and he isnt really played anyway). Mal'ganis brings immortality and can either be played much earlier than his cost (voidcaller) or is played in a deck where there are 5+ other 7+ attack targets.
You just proved my point. Because of how easily a 7+ mana minion is removed all large legendaries we see EVER has immediate effects. There are a lot of minions with lasting power that very well could be played - like Thermaplugg - if you simply were not EXPECTING your big guy to die even if your opponent does not have the means to trade.
I agree that all these legendaries are played because they have an immediate effect. But, they are all played despite BGH. So, his impact is not that great as you believe. I.e. you were absolutely wrong about the number of played high attack minions. And you are wrong about the believe that Illidan and the others are not played because of BGH. That's what I mainly pointed out. Mekgineer Thermaplugg is not played, because he is to slow. if you play Dr. Boom, you mostly bait out BGH. You could play him, but you don't, because he is not good enough. Try him out, I bet most of the times he will not die to BGH, but not being played at all or be killed by what is already on the field (7 health is just not good enough for 9 mana). Except you are already winning. Then he is good, but superfluous.
But still: I think changing him to a 3/2 or 2/2 would be the best solution: this would change him to a low penalty tech-card to a mid-penalty tech card. It needs a penalty. But still there's also an alternative:
Big Game Hunter: 3 Mana 4/2 Put a enemy minion with 7 attack or more back into the opponents deck.
Instead of a removal, it is effectively an Recycle for high attack minions.
I always had the feeling that the clear cut of 7 attack is the problem. Generally I like that there is a neutral card that deals with big creatures.
How is it with: Battlecry: Deal a LOT of damage to a BIG creature. This needs of course some sort of formula. For example:
0-5 attack: no effect
6 attack: 1 damage
7 attack: 4 damage
8 attack: 9 damage
9 attack: 16 damage
...
That's of course just an example and can be altered. The downside is the unclear formulation. This could be irritating for new players. But as an epic card that's perhaps ok. If you are playing it, it could show the damage hovering over a minion.
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but without BGH, Handlock simply get out of control. As much as many people want him to be gone, Handlock would need a nerf too.
The problem of BGH is that he provides a body that's too good with the effect. A 4/2 body together with an destroy an minion-effect is too strong. Even if you have an deck that doesn't have 7+ attack minions, it does trade at least with all other 3 mana minions. That's the problem.
BGH should stay at it is, BUT instead of an 4/2 body, it should be a 2/2 body.
Adding BGH should penalty a player, but a 4/2 body is not really a penalty.
Nope, as I honestly believe the giants are going under the nerf hammer as well. Blizzard will not want to leave handlock as the all pwoerful deck from now until forever.
Big Game Hunter: 3 Mana 4/2 Battlecry: Destroy target minion with 7 or more attack.
Effect is highly situational, because only few decks play a target for him (in standard). He has a bit weaker stats as a 3 drop and a weak statline if played on curve (without BC). You can not hold onto him if there's a target, because you don't know how many 7 attack minions your enemy plays. So really easy to bait with a lower quality 7 attack minion.
If you find something wrong with this version, pls tell me...
It crushes all the fun cards in the game, but we have to put up with it becasue of the boring giant cards. Been there done that, nerf him, and them.
I actually think we just need to make it less good when not hitting a target so at least it's a strong detriment to your deck to have it in there when it doesn't have a target, since it's such an insane swing when it does.
In order to do that I believe we should make it cost 5 mana....that's it...so easy :P
What is Hearthstone to you?
A fun and semi-competitive game with wacky effects and crazy RNG outcomes or just a card game you wanna grind as many wins you can get as fast as possible in?
nerfing BGH? Why not nerf Novice Engineer to 5 mana, 1-1, battlecry: give ur oponent 1 card?
This forums...
Play Pally 24/7 plz, so I can farm u 24/7 =)
Why not just switch the battlecries of BGH and Hemet Nesingwary?
I love this card and because of the BGH nerf.
Hearthstone lacks depth. You specially notice this if you watched the European Winter prelims. There is no concistency among pros not because they lack skill but because the lack of depth and the amount of RNG.
With cards like this it's not enough to think 1 step ahead (where do I use BGH) but now you need to consider that the opponent might get his minion back and you need to think about what your answer to that might be.
Maybe you won't use the BGH at this point in time but instead trade minions?
The depth increases alot by things like this and I have hoped for cards like this.
Great card!
All that needs to happen is to swap the battlecrys of BGH with Hemet Nesingwary, the battlecry sounds will even be more fitting haha
The best nerf would be if BGH deals fixed damage to the 7+ attack minion..
I am ok if they nerf giants along BGH if not it's not ok.. the giants are way too strong otherwise..
BGH IS NECESSARY!
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but without BGH, Handlock simply get out of control. As much as many people want him to be gone, Handlock would need a nerf too.
The problem of BGH is that he provides a body that's too good with the effect. A 4/2 body together with an destroy an minion-effect is too strong. Even if you have an deck that doesn't have 7+ attack minions, it does trade at least with all other 3 mana minions. That's the problem.
BGH should stay at it is, BUT instead of an 4/2 body, it should be a 2/2 body.
Adding BGH should penalty a player, but a 4/2 body is not really a penalty.
Maybe change Big Game Hunter's text to "Battlecry: Destroy a Giant." as it's always pointed out that he's necessary to counter Handlock but way too powerful otherwise.
Changing his attack to 2 would make him less of a threat after already getting insane value from him.
Or make him deal 4 damage to 7+ attack minions. Or make him something like a (4) Mana 2/1 and change the text to "Battlecry: Choose a minion and deal damage to it equal to it's attack value." which, with too good stats, could probably be OP though.
3 Mana 4/2
Put a enemy minion with 7 attack or more back into the opponents deck.
Deal 7 damage to creature with 7 attack or higher.
Nerf giants to 7/7.
Why? It will still kill giants, but won't kill better-than-giant bodies (dragons and other high-cost stuff).
I always had the feeling that the clear cut of 7 attack is the problem. Generally I like that there is a neutral card that deals with big creatures.
How is it with: Battlecry: Deal a LOT of damage to a BIG creature. This needs of course some sort of formula. For example:
0-5 attack: no effect
6 attack: 1 damage
7 attack: 4 damage
8 attack: 9 damage
9 attack: 16 damage
...
That's of course just an example and can be altered. The downside is the unclear formulation. This could be irritating for new players. But as an epic card that's perhaps ok. If you are playing it, it could show the damage hovering over a minion.
Just increase the cost to 5 or something, that seems like the Blizzard way to go. The OP's suggestion almost changes the whole card.