3 mana 4/3: Deal 5 damage to target minion with 7 or more attack
It's a 3 fucking mana card: No way it should KILL a 7+ cost minion at the cost of 1 health, while maintaining a solid body.
I mean: Freakin Hex has a drawback, and leaves no body on your side.
And for giants, you only need 3 damage to kill them. Sure -- you need a 3 attack minion, or something, a spell, or whatever. But if the body was changed to 4/3, it'd be completely on curve.
It would be powerful, but not backbreaking, versus cards like Prophet Velen.
Your version is NOT like Kezan Mystic. Kezan has 1 condition, yours one has 2. I really like the idea people braught up here, dealing actual damage instead of instantly removing, but the fact Dr.Boom exists makes me strongly support the idea of dealing 7 damage to 7+ attack minions.
Why not just switch the battlecries of BGH and Hemet Nesingwary?
This is what a number of people have suggested, and I'm somewhat in favor of such a thing. As someone had noted previously, BGH and Hemet would have appropriate sounds when played, so... ja.
This is a ridiculous idea. What a way to super throttle a card to death so it doesn't have its' base identity kept intact. Appreciate the enthusiasm, however, this isn't a very good idea.
Just increase the cost to 5 or something, that seems like the Blizzard way to go. The OP's suggestion almost changes the whole card.
I made mention of this before, that I believe it's a good nerf because it can only really be used to help recover and not outright retain full control of a board. I believe that should've been the point of the card in the first place. He just feels really easy to abuse under the right circumstances, and with Brewmasters and cards like Shadowstep, it can be really easy to clear a strong board.
But this is why I wanted to have this discussion with people in the first place. Everyone has their own idea, I'd like to think, and it's cool to talk about design like this.
Ive been doing some thinking and I believe the proper way to nerf bgh would be to make it a 3 mana 4/2 with the battlecry: destroy a minion with 7 or more attack. Therefore you have a way to clear big minions but if you don't have a valid target then it practicaly sits in your hand unless you decide to play it for tempo.
BGH is fine as it is, yes. You wanna play big minions? Then put more than one into your deck and pair cards accordingly to get the time to do it. Lately these days I'm playing a Tempo-Value mage that starts with the usual stuff (flamecannon, frostbolt, arcane missiles etc) but then starts putting down big minions (Dr.Boom, Rhonin, Antonidas, Ragnaros) + Effigy. I'm fine with the first getting BGH' (which is usually Rhonin so I still get the arcane missiles to pair with Antonidas) because I have more to spare.
BGH is the card that prevents retards from just regurgitating one big minion after the other without a care in the world.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
The existence of BGH is preventing too many otherwise cool "big" creatures to NOT get played.
Why was Ragnaros and the Giants the only creatures to be played ? (ok DR Boom as well) - because they have an Immediate effect on the board OR are highly undercosted.
By nerfing BGH, Blizzard would need to nerf the giants as well or they would be far too strong. But it would open the metagame to loads of new possibilities ! Now, all the Nefarian and the likes might be viable. I don't get all the trolls in here, saying BGH is fine the way it is. It's not only about where it gets played or not, but also every other cards that are not played because of him.
However there would be the problem that with some classes you would simply be dead without BGH since they lack decent removal.
The existence of BGH is preventing too many otherwise cool "big" creatures to NOT get played.
Why was Ragnaros and the Giants the only creatures to be played ? (ok DR Boom as well) - because they have an Immediate effect on the board OR are highly undercosted.
By nerfing BGH, Blizzard would need to nerf the giants as well or they would be far too strong. But it would open the metagame to loads of new possibilities ! Now, all the Nefarian and the likes might be viable. I don't get all the trolls in here, saying BGH is fine the way it is. It's not only about where it gets played or not, but also every other cards that are not played because of him.
However there would be the problem that with some classes you would simply be dead without BGH since they lack decent removal.
They could always nerf BGH by changing its mana cost or stats and that way those classes wouldn't lose BGH as a removal.
The existence of BGH is preventing too many otherwise cool "big" creatures to NOT get played.
Why was Ragnaros and the Giants the only creatures to be played ? (ok DR Boom as well) - because they have an Immediate effect on the board OR are highly undercosted.
By nerfing BGH, Blizzard would need to nerf the giants as well or they would be far too strong. But it would open the metagame to loads of new possibilities ! Now, all the Nefarian and the likes might be viable. I don't get all the trolls in here, saying BGH is fine the way it is. It's not only about where it gets played or not, but also every other cards that are not played because of him.
However there would be the problem that with some classes you would simply be dead without BGH since they lack decent removal.
They could always nerf BGH by changing its mana cost or stats and that way those classes wouldn't lose BGH as a removal.
They cant because his argument here was that its limiting the game so the mechanic in itsself needs a rework acording to that logic.
They could always nerf BGH by changing its mana cost or stats and that way those classes wouldn't lose BGH as a removal.
They cant because his argument here was that its limiting the game so the mechanic in itsself needs a rework acording to that logic.
That wasn't his argument at all. Simply balancing BGH while keeping his effect the same would not go against his logic. The Black Knight has a similar effect but does not cause the same issues for going forward with the game that BGH does because his effect is balanced by his extra cost and the less average tempo swing when played.
Black Knight doesn't cause the same "issues" because taunt minions are naturally innefficient power-wise. Their purpose is to protect the board, not attack.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
They could always nerf BGH by changing its mana cost or stats and that way those classes wouldn't lose BGH as a removal.
They cant because his argument here was that its limiting the game so the mechanic in itsself needs a rework acording to that logic.
That wasn't his argument at all. Simply balancing BGH while keeping his effect the same would not go against his logic. The Black Knight has a similar effect but does not cause the same issues for going forward with the game that BGH does because his effect is balanced by his extra cost and the less average tempo swing when played.
The popular suggestion is to have BGH deal big damage to big minions and not completely wipe said minion out unless said minion had too little health. My suggestion was to merely turn BGH into a card that can only TRULY be used to recover. A lot of people dislike the idea of making him into a card that is used best to recover. It would be super easy to play around though, which is a problem.
Turn 2 Dr. Boom is a thing with Druid, and not having that one piece of essential removal can kill you early on, and that's a problem, so something would need to be done to make it work still, if anything at all.
Agreed, because then decks like handlock would come back into the game and be the cancer of the future if they nerf bgh without nerfing other large minions slightly as well.
I like the idea of more conditional removals, and wouldn't mind conditions being applied to things like Shadow Word : Death as well. As far as BGH goes - I like the idea of a card that can get you out of a hole, but I kind of hate that for 3 mana you can just remove a whole pile of otherwise threatening, interesting minions. So I was thinking of a keyword for him, and potentially other cards as well, that allows actions to happen while a card is in your hand (in my head I call it Build).
So in this case, Big Game Hunter could start as a 2/2 maybe, and read Build : Gain +1 attack / Battlecry : Do attack damage to a minion. This way, you can't just topdeck BGH out of the blue to save your ass, but if you kept it in your starting hand, or drew it early, it could build it's attack up to eliminate one big threat. This could act as BOTH nerf and buff, since it could now crush a 6/6, but you have to build it up first. Anyway, just an idea.
Black Knight doesn't cause the same "issues" because taunt minions are naturally innefficient power-wise. Their purpose is to protect the board, not attack.
Yeah, tirion is pretty inefficient. Same with Ancient of war. The reason that Black Knight is not OP is because of the reasons I mentioned earlier: TBK typically makes a much smaller tempo swing, and it has a bigger mana cost drawback than BGH. Even if you hit a Tirion with BGH you still get less of a tempo swing than hitting Rag with a BGH.
If BGH had a drawback more in line with TBK then he would still punish big minions just like he always has, but his cost would be more in line with the power of his effect.
3 mana 4/3: Deal 5 damage to target minion with 7 or more attack
It's a 3 fucking mana card: No way it should KILL a 7+ cost minion at the cost of 1 health, while maintaining a solid body.
I mean: Freakin Hex has a drawback, and leaves no body on your side.
And for giants, you only need 3 damage to kill them.
Sure -- you need a 3 attack minion, or something, a spell, or whatever.
But if the body was changed to 4/3, it'd be completely on curve.
It would be powerful, but not backbreaking, versus cards like Prophet Velen.
Your version is NOT like Kezan Mystic. Kezan has 1 condition, yours one has 2.
I really like the idea people braught up here, dealing actual damage instead of instantly removing, but the fact Dr.Boom exists makes me strongly support the idea of dealing 7 damage to 7+ attack minions.
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Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
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Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
Ive been doing some thinking and I believe the proper way to nerf bgh would be to make it a 3 mana 4/2 with the battlecry: destroy a minion with 7 or more attack. Therefore you have a way to clear big minions but if you don't have a valid target then it practicaly sits in your hand unless you decide to play it for tempo.
BGH is fine as it is, yes. You wanna play big minions? Then put more than one into your deck and pair cards accordingly to get the time to do it. Lately these days I'm playing a Tempo-Value mage that starts with the usual stuff (flamecannon, frostbolt, arcane missiles etc) but then starts putting down big minions (Dr.Boom, Rhonin, Antonidas, Ragnaros) + Effigy. I'm fine with the first getting BGH' (which is usually Rhonin so I still get the arcane missiles to pair with Antonidas) because I have more to spare.
BGH is the card that prevents retards from just regurgitating one big minion after the other without a care in the world.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
Taking away an asnwer to a buffed Mysterious Challenger ....no thanks!
BGH doesn't need a nerf... why is this a topic?
Well, there shouldn't even be a pool. Nerf BGH. We totally need it.
Meta is filled with 7/* and everybody is using 2 BGHs in each and every decks.
Not to mention how awesome it is against Face Hunter, Aggro Shaman etc etc
Seriously, I get it. You don't like seeing your precious 1600dust-guy getting removed by BGH. Get over it.
Black Knight doesn't cause the same "issues" because taunt minions are naturally innefficient power-wise. Their purpose is to protect the board, not attack.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
Agreed, because then decks like handlock would come back into the game and be the cancer of the future if they nerf bgh without nerfing other large minions slightly as well.
I like the idea of more conditional removals, and wouldn't mind conditions being applied to things like Shadow Word : Death as well. As far as BGH goes - I like the idea of a card that can get you out of a hole, but I kind of hate that for 3 mana you can just remove a whole pile of otherwise threatening, interesting minions. So I was thinking of a keyword for him, and potentially other cards as well, that allows actions to happen while a card is in your hand (in my head I call it Build).
So in this case, Big Game Hunter could start as a 2/2 maybe, and read Build : Gain +1 attack / Battlecry : Do attack damage to a minion. This way, you can't just topdeck BGH out of the blue to save your ass, but if you kept it in your starting hand, or drew it early, it could build it's attack up to eliminate one big threat. This could act as BOTH nerf and buff, since it could now crush a 6/6, but you have to build it up first. Anyway, just an idea.