Just want to hear some more Oppinions about it Do you think they are fine? aka its ok that theres the "Full House" Build, that will proly win you the Lobby. Or do you think they are too opressive and are tired losing vs them?
Imo, they are a bit too strong. Because they are simply the Tribe with the most buff Cards, There were lobbys, where i kinda forced them and failed to get Brann/Megasaur, but still got Top 3 and even won just because they were kinda Big. (a like 35/40 Murk-Eye and some 10/25 Shitters with poison are always pretty strong - i mean thats better Stats than a Maexna buffed by a golden Goldrinn)
Dunno as much as i hate them i wouldnt want them to be "destroyed" so i thought, what if Blizz would just remove some of the buff Cards? Just make them i tiny Touch more vulnerable. So my Approach would be, to remove Coldlight Seer and see how they perform. I mean its just, in my Eyes, Murlocs win Way too many Lobbys nowadays.
I would replace the majority of non-original murloc with battleground original ones.
The way they are now, they will always be a one-trick pony.
I would remove the Bran+Megasaur dependency and strengthen the other parts, making them more consistent but less spiky. I would keep the heavy emphasis on battlecries though.
I was also quite sad that they removed Mackarel entirely. That was very lazy game design. They could have made it into anything, it was an original card. Invent something without Divine Shield and there you go.
Overall I think the Murloc tribe needs a lot of work. Dragons and Pirates feel so shiny, and we can be sure Elementals and Totems will follow soon after.
The original tribes need to keep up. At first it was certainly a good idea to reuse classic hearthstone cards for battlegrounds, but now I would cut them all away for new stuff, that also opens up more possibilities for game design.
Maybe remove toxifin and allow murlocs to get poison only through megasaur, only fair nerf I can think of.
Had that in mind too! But as long as those Shitter only trade 1for1, its fine imo.(coz other tribes have more Deathrattles etc) Just the 2for1 with the Divine AND Poison really is not fun, But yes i like the Idea
Maybe remove toxifin and allow murlocs to get poison only through megasaur, only fair nerf I can think of.
It should be the other way around.
Thats the Question! Can Murlocs exist without the Divine Shield Buff? Imo, why should retarded "Swamp Creatures" (if im correct there) even have a Divine Shield??? And you still could just get pretty Big Creatures with Poison. And then even more often because less PPl would play/force them.
I think if you nerfed Murlocs in one way you would likely have to buff it in another way at the same time, or else they would be a really bad comp. The only think keeping them alive really is their chance to highroll an easy first place, because if you don't highroll you generally have a bad time.
actually health buff is ok, other tribes have their way to get overstated, but the main problem is getting accès to poisonous and divine shield at the same time, i also think it's magasaur the problem, it just makes it too powerfull way too quickly, i mean i already saw a streamer have a transition murloc just getting a brann, a primalfin a tide hunter and a megasaur he got making a golden that he sold with his whole board who was quite strong already and 1 turns later a full board of poisonous divine shield and windfury murlocs wreaking 80/80 minions like nothing, then again it was a lucky event but still it shouldn't be possible
I kind of have a problem with Khadgar. Seems like he makes a sudden murloc transition a bit too plausible. If someone has been building them up bit by bit, that's one thing, even if Megasaur is one heck of a nail in the coffin. When you can just go mega triples into megasaur with a bunch of 2/2s? That's pretty uncool.
Even if there's no fast transition, well... are Murlocs a problem? Thing is, there will always be some build which is best if given enough time. Take the fins out from under Murlocs, and it'll be something else (probably big dragons with Nadina), and all the forum threads will complain about that.
But let's be clear: murlocs aren't the cause, but the result. Trying to fix the symptoms without understanding their source won't lead to a cure. Best as I can put together:
Murlocs used to be kept in check by the fact that other builds would usually kill them before they went galactic. However, that's not happening.
Is it that Murlocs are a lot safer in the early game? Probably not.
Seems more like everyone else just gets beaten up in the midgame. Because of that, it's really hard to make late-game transitions for most builds. Seems to happen a lot earlier in the game that you're taking 20 damage chunks.
No one other than murlocs can consistently step-up into something which really challenges midgame builds.
I don't know the right way to begin fixing it. Maybe a nerf to Murlocs just eliminates lategame builds entirely, which would probably be kind of sad. Instead, I think it'd be better to ease up the midgame damage, so that folks can put together other builds that can compete. I don't know how to accomplish that. However, I think excessively damaging midgame builds probably are closer to the source of the problems, rather than murlocs.
Remove Megasaur. Murlocs being able to get Divine Shield is the main problem, and Megasaur makes Murloc builds too high-rolley. The buffs are fine since you have to build them up over time and other tribes have access to major buffs too.
I think the midgame buffs are fine, and needed with the power of pirates and some beast midgame strategies. I think the problem with murlocs lies in megasaur. As far as tribe specific 6 star minions go, this one is far and above more powerful than the rest. The ability to get divine shield and poisonous on every murloc gives you an insane edge over most other strategies.
Some counters have been added in the form of aoe deathrattle or cannons but in most cases if you can switch to a board of unbuffed murlocs, a brann, and a megasaur then you will easily get top 2 and probably win.
OFC im aware that Divine Poison Murlocs are the Problem. But my Point, with removing a Buff Card was, to make the Highroll more suffering.
I mean in best case Scenario, when youre at Tavern3 you have 2 MurkEyes and 2 Warleader, and find Coldlights--- thats insane Stats for the Squad. By removing the Coldlight Oracle for instance it would get harder to survive or even win fights in the Midgame.
But to some Point i have to aggree Megasaur is just such a good TribeSpecific Card, probably its just too good.
Late game murlocs need a counter. If battlegrounds was a standalone mode, making mechs immune to poison would be an interesting solution.
It would be nice to have Mechs as hard-counter to DS/P Murlocs, Pirates as hard-counter to Mechs etc... Or let's say "A possibility to hard-counter.." Then you can't just go 'see murlocs, force murlocs' strategy.
Also unnerf Lightfang and add more 'buff all' minions to help menagerie.
And maybe we should know who goes first before the combat.
And maybe there should be also hidden tier0 minions as well (rats, worthless imps, plants, microbots, Shadow of Nothing and more) - enough to counter Hooktusk HP and tokens dmg problem, I guess
What if Megasaurs Effect was a Deathrattle? So you have to have him on Stage and a Macaw or a Baron too. Eats up Boardspace and kicks in RNG (would fit Blizz Style).
its just unbelievable to me why those goddammed SwampCreatures can get every Buff available constantly. i mean why can a Murloc have Poison but not a Pirat? But im sure Blizz will adress them, they just win way too many Lobbies.
Just want to hear some more Oppinions about it
Do you think they are fine? aka its ok that theres the "Full House" Build, that will proly win you the Lobby.
Or do you think they are too opressive and are tired losing vs them?
Imo, they are a bit too strong. Because they are simply the Tribe with the most buff Cards,
There were lobbys, where i kinda forced them and failed to get Brann/Megasaur, but still got Top 3 and even won just because they were kinda Big.
(a like 35/40 Murk-Eye and some 10/25 Shitters with poison are always pretty strong - i mean thats better Stats than a Maexna buffed by a golden Goldrinn)
Dunno as much as i hate them i wouldnt want them to be "destroyed" so i thought, what if Blizz would just remove some of the buff Cards?
Just make them i tiny Touch more vulnerable. So my Approach would be, to remove Coldlight Seer and see how they perform.
I mean its just, in my Eyes, Murlocs win Way too many Lobbys nowadays.
Maybe remove toxifin and allow murlocs to get poison only through megasaur, only fair nerf I can think of.
I would replace the majority of non-original murloc with battleground original ones.
The way they are now, they will always be a one-trick pony.
I would remove the Bran+Megasaur dependency and strengthen the other parts, making them more consistent but less spiky. I would keep the heavy emphasis on battlecries though.
I was also quite sad that they removed Mackarel entirely. That was very lazy game design. They could have made it into anything, it was an original card. Invent something without Divine Shield and there you go.
Overall I think the Murloc tribe needs a lot of work. Dragons and Pirates feel so shiny, and we can be sure Elementals and Totems will follow soon after.
The original tribes need to keep up. At first it was certainly a good idea to reuse classic hearthstone cards for battlegrounds, but now I would cut them all away for new stuff, that also opens up more possibilities for game design.
Remove murlocs from the game.
It should be the other way around.
Had that in mind too!
But as long as those Shitter only trade 1for1, its fine imo.(coz other tribes have more Deathrattles etc) Just the 2for1 with the Divine AND Poison really is not fun,
But yes i like the Idea
Thats the Question!
Can Murlocs exist without the Divine Shield Buff?
Imo, why should retarded "Swamp Creatures" (if im correct there) even have a Divine Shield???
And you still could just get pretty Big Creatures with Poison. And then even more often because less PPl would play/force them.
I think if you nerfed Murlocs in one way you would likely have to buff it in another way at the same time, or else they would be a really bad comp. The only think keeping them alive really is their chance to highroll an easy first place, because if you don't highroll you generally have a bad time.
Remove brann. Brann is the only problematic murloc card.
Having so many health buffers is problematic. There are 3 right now.
actually health buff is ok, other tribes have their way to get overstated, but the main problem is getting accès to poisonous and divine shield at the same time, i also think it's magasaur the problem, it just makes it too powerfull way too quickly, i mean i already saw a streamer have a transition murloc just getting a brann, a primalfin a tide hunter and a megasaur he got making a golden that he sold with his whole board who was quite strong already and 1 turns later a full board of poisonous divine shield and windfury murlocs wreaking 80/80 minions like nothing, then again it was a lucky event but still it shouldn't be possible
I kind of have a problem with Khadgar. Seems like he makes a sudden murloc transition a bit too plausible. If someone has been building them up bit by bit, that's one thing, even if Megasaur is one heck of a nail in the coffin. When you can just go mega triples into megasaur with a bunch of 2/2s? That's pretty uncool.
Even if there's no fast transition, well... are Murlocs a problem? Thing is, there will always be some build which is best if given enough time. Take the fins out from under Murlocs, and it'll be something else (probably big dragons with Nadina), and all the forum threads will complain about that.
But let's be clear: murlocs aren't the cause, but the result. Trying to fix the symptoms without understanding their source won't lead to a cure. Best as I can put together:
I don't know the right way to begin fixing it. Maybe a nerf to Murlocs just eliminates lategame builds entirely, which would probably be kind of sad. Instead, I think it'd be better to ease up the midgame damage, so that folks can put together other builds that can compete. I don't know how to accomplish that. However, I think excessively damaging midgame builds probably are closer to the source of the problems, rather than murlocs.
Remove Megasaur. Murlocs being able to get Divine Shield is the main problem, and Megasaur makes Murloc builds too high-rolley. The buffs are fine since you have to build them up over time and other tribes have access to major buffs too.
I think the midgame buffs are fine, and needed with the power of pirates and some beast midgame strategies. I think the problem with murlocs lies in megasaur. As far as tribe specific 6 star minions go, this one is far and above more powerful than the rest. The ability to get divine shield and poisonous on every murloc gives you an insane edge over most other strategies.
Some counters have been added in the form of aoe deathrattle or cannons but in most cases if you can switch to a board of unbuffed murlocs, a brann, and a megasaur then you will easily get top 2 and probably win.
Late game murlocs need a counter. If battlegrounds was a standalone mode, making mechs immune to poison would be an interesting solution.
OFC im aware that Divine Poison Murlocs are the Problem.
But my Point, with removing a Buff Card was, to make the Highroll more suffering.
I mean in best case Scenario, when youre at Tavern3 you have 2 MurkEyes and 2 Warleader, and find Coldlights--- thats insane Stats for the Squad. By removing the Coldlight Oracle for instance it would get harder to survive or even win fights in the Midgame.
But to some Point i have to aggree Megasaur is just such a good TribeSpecific Card, probably its just too good.
Brann should be moved to tavern 6. This would also make Lightfang more relevant.
EVERYONE , GET A BEER!
It would be nice to have Mechs as hard-counter to DS/P Murlocs, Pirates as hard-counter to Mechs etc... Or let's say "A possibility to hard-counter.." Then you can't just go 'see murlocs, force murlocs' strategy.
Also unnerf Lightfang and add more 'buff all' minions to help menagerie.
And maybe we should know who goes first before the combat.
And maybe there should be also hidden tier0 minions as well (rats, worthless imps, plants, microbots, Shadow of Nothing and more) - enough to counter Hooktusk HP and tokens dmg problem, I guess
Mimsy Were The Borogoves
Another Idea for a Change:
What if Megasaurs Effect was a Deathrattle?
So you have to have him on Stage and a Macaw or a Baron too. Eats up Boardspace and kicks in RNG (would fit Blizz Style).
its just unbelievable to me why those goddammed SwampCreatures can get every Buff available constantly.
i mean why can a Murloc have Poison but not a Pirat?
But im sure Blizz will adress them, they just win way too many Lobbies.
Remove Gentle Megasaur and add Scalelord