So, here's an idea to deal with the DKs.. let Dirty Rat pull them.
I get that they aren't classified as Minions, but there is no current counter-play to them so let's make an exception.
It's silly that, as is, if your opponent plays Anduin or Gul'dan or Jaina at a reasonable life total, you probably lost and there's nothing you can do.
These decks built around 4 or 5 minions and a DK are silly.
The other option is introduce a minion that switches hero powers with the opponent. But in general, they need to address DKs. They're going to be around for another year and, with the rotation, likely only get stronger.
No, the option is using Mindbreaker if you have problems with the upgraded Hero Powers, which from the last Paragraph, I assume it is.
Mindbreaker is a terrible counter to heropowers. Temporary effects can hardly be considered a counter if you compare to other tech cards like skulking geist, eater of secrets, golakka crawler etc.
An idea could be that if it pulled Shadowreaper Anduin, it would summon a ?/5 with the text 'Whenever you play a card, deal 2 damage to a random enemy'
I feel like the death knight cards won't get a tech unless/until they add more hero cards. I'm predicting they will eventually add more hero cards and in that expansion we may see some form of counterplay added as well, but currently there is only one hero card per class and not all of them are frequently used (not including Jaraxxus or Majordormo Excecutus here because the game reads them as minions). Death knight cards would not be on the top of my list to make a tech for right now, and changing an already unreliable tech that rotates out of standard in four months to do it would only really help wild deal with death knights.
Sorry but it doesn't make any sense to me. I do get that some DKs are insane powerhouses that carry the whole game over their shoulders like it was nothing, but to try to make specifically Dirty Rat some kind of unreliable kind of "counter" to them, makes no sense.
If you want some counter to DKs you should design a new card that "counters" them in an indirect way, and also, nothing too strong of a counter, as it would be a staple to all decks. The most direct way to counter DKs is to counter their Hero Power, but not to just make them dissapear with a Dirty Rat 1 out of 100 times you play one.
Since we're on the subject, what if Dirty Rat could pull the actual hero? There are options against Death Knights, there's no need to make Dirty Rat do something dirtier.
I do not agree with the original poster's idea, but if there was need of implementing that the obvious solution is to make all Death Knights minions, just like Jaraxxus.
and why do we need counterplay for hero cards ? they are powerful cards, sure, but they are pretty high cost and contribute to different play styles. They do not go in every deck and even less create opressive archetypes. Shadowreaper Anduin is the only one creating issues at the moment but it's only because of Raza. when rotation happens the card will be just fine
Most of my point was general with rat specificially addressed at the end, but I like talking about cards so let's theorycraft then. We'll pretend our next expansion adds new hero cards for every class and they are about in line with the death knight card power level. We'll also pretend they see frequent and regular play in almost or all classes so a tech would see value. In this scenario, what would a tech look like?
Some thoughts off the top of my head:
The Jaraxxus Route-in this one, we'll pretend the death knights get coded to have a minion double and they are affected by pull/summon effects. What does their stats look like? Jaraxxus is a 3/15 body on the board. Would all death knights be a ?/30 or would it be ?/(current enemy hero health)? What would each's attack score be since unlike Jaraxxus only one has a weapon to convert an attack value to (Uther)? Would death knights like Frost Lich retain a form of lifesteal or Anduin deal 2 damage when you play a card or something to counteract completely losing your death knight or hero card to a pull to keep it from being autowin/autolose?
Mindbreaker 2.0-in this one, the minion in question would do something like disable the hero power permanently or for a set number of turns (maybe two or three?). This could be abused to mess with the default hero powers of a class as well and risks being way too strong and would potentially see play whether there were hero cards or none at all.
Hero Revert-a devolve effect of sorts that only affects the hero. After the death knight is played, the opponent plays this card and the enemy hero becomes their starting hero. This gives the death knights/hero cards some value but also negates their longstanding threat. Similar to above, concerns for the power of this tech could be lodged, but unlike minbreaker 2.0, it can only affect hero card.
Those are three ideas I have, and each as you see have pro's and con's. I want to reiterate I feel that currently a hero card tech is unnecessary in the game. These are just some "what if's".
Edit: Under my Jaraxxus point I forgot that Garrosh also has a weapon to convert to attack value. My mistake.
OBVIOUSLY Blizzard won't do this. The point isn't actually "make Dirty Rat pull DKs!"
The point is; what IS Blizzard going to do about the DK problem?
And yes, it IS a problem. There are 4 or 5 DKs with a VERY high win percentage when played that will be around for another year+. They just require you to draw them and you get a massive benefit, almost independent of anything else in your deck.
There SHOULD be a counter-play option. But what is it?
And no, Mindbreaker does not "work fine." Mindbreaker is useless. It has never been, nor ever will be, used in a legit competitive deck. It's not a viable tech card. Viable tech cards have an effect and BOOM, you get the effect forever. Ie.. steal a minion, destroy a weapon, destroy a secret, etc..
Slightly kind of delaying something, less than a whole turn, is not a tech card.
Dirty Rat has its purpose, and that is an anti-Aggro tool, and marginally anti-Combo. Generally an anti-minion card. There is a reason it does not pull DKs, and that is called BALANCE (other than the fact you simply cannot pull a DK to board. DKs are more like spells actually).
An anti-dk tech must indeed be a properly designed card, not a multi-purpose one.
Btw, all DK cards you mentioned are very powerfull indeed, but they are all for slow decks, and slow decks already have a natural counter-archetype. More than one actually: Combo and Mill.
This isn't really necessary. Right now the only top decks with Hero cards in them are Raz priest (which has it's own set of counters), Jade and Big Druid (own set of counters), and Control-Lock (again, own set of counters). Evo shaman is more or less dead right now. Face hunter doesn't use the DK. Secret mage doesn't use the DK. The rest of the heroes weren't played as much as the listed classes. So you have THREEE of NINE hero cards performing regularly. Not worth a counter or re-tuning a card
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So, here's an idea to deal with the DKs.. let Dirty Rat pull them.
I get that they aren't classified as Minions, but there is no current counter-play to them so let's make an exception.
It's silly that, as is, if your opponent plays Anduin or Gul'dan or Jaina at a reasonable life total, you probably lost and there's nothing you can do.
These decks built around 4 or 5 minions and a DK are silly.
The other option is introduce a minion that switches hero powers with the opponent. But in general, they need to address DKs. They're going to be around for another year and, with the rotation, likely only get stronger.
So weird people almost always (sorry for generalizing) talk about cards like they are only important while in Standard.
What do you suggest would happen if the Rat pulled a DK?
What do you propose would happen if Dirty Rat pulled a DK?
Maybe summon a random minion which mana cost like the dk?
I think he's looking for something more permanent or harder to remove, like Eater of Secrets counters secrets and Golakka Crawler counters pirates.
An idea could be that if it pulled Shadowreaper Anduin, it would summon a ?/5 with the text 'Whenever you play a card, deal 2 damage to a random enemy'
I feel like the death knight cards won't get a tech unless/until they add more hero cards. I'm predicting they will eventually add more hero cards and in that expansion we may see some form of counterplay added as well, but currently there is only one hero card per class and not all of them are frequently used (not including Jaraxxus or Majordormo Excecutus here because the game reads them as minions). Death knight cards would not be on the top of my list to make a tech for right now, and changing an already unreliable tech that rotates out of standard in four months to do it would only really help wild deal with death knights.
Sorry but it doesn't make any sense to me. I do get that some DKs are insane powerhouses that carry the whole game over their shoulders like it was nothing, but to try to make specifically Dirty Rat some kind of unreliable kind of "counter" to them, makes no sense.
If you want some counter to DKs you should design a new card that "counters" them in an indirect way, and also, nothing too strong of a counter, as it would be a staple to all decks. The most direct way to counter DKs is to counter their Hero Power, but not to just make them dissapear with a Dirty Rat 1 out of 100 times you play one.
The point is less about Dirty Rat in particular, more about the DK cards and how restricting they are to the game.
Unless Blizzard introduces massive power creep, which obviously is a horrible idea, certain DKs will just be played at high tiers for the next year.
Dirty Rat just happens to be the current card that most easily could be tuned to provide a counter-play option. Mindbreaker isn't even close.
Since we're on the subject, what if Dirty Rat could pull the actual hero? There are options against Death Knights, there's no need to make Dirty Rat do something dirtier.
I do not agree with the original poster's idea, but if there was need of implementing that the obvious solution is to make all Death Knights minions, just like Jaraxxus.
and why do we need counterplay for hero cards ? they are powerful cards, sure, but they are pretty high cost and contribute to different play styles. They do not go in every deck and even less create opressive archetypes. Shadowreaper Anduin is the only one creating issues at the moment but it's only because of Raza. when rotation happens the card will be just fine
Most of my point was general with rat specificially addressed at the end, but I like talking about cards so let's theorycraft then. We'll pretend our next expansion adds new hero cards for every class and they are about in line with the death knight card power level. We'll also pretend they see frequent and regular play in almost or all classes so a tech would see value. In this scenario, what would a tech look like?
Some thoughts off the top of my head:
Those are three ideas I have, and each as you see have pro's and con's. I want to reiterate I feel that currently a hero card tech is unnecessary in the game. These are just some "what if's".
Edit: Under my Jaraxxus point I forgot that Garrosh also has a weapon to convert to attack value. My mistake.
Why not 9 manas 4/6 battlecry destroy both players hero power?
or a reasonable compromise, a minion that prevents DKs from being played.
To clarify;
OBVIOUSLY Blizzard won't do this. The point isn't actually "make Dirty Rat pull DKs!"
The point is; what IS Blizzard going to do about the DK problem?
And yes, it IS a problem. There are 4 or 5 DKs with a VERY high win percentage when played that will be around for another year+. They just require you to draw them and you get a massive benefit, almost independent of anything else in your deck.
There SHOULD be a counter-play option. But what is it?
And no, Mindbreaker does not "work fine." Mindbreaker is useless. It has never been, nor ever will be, used in a legit competitive deck. It's not a viable tech card. Viable tech cards have an effect and BOOM, you get the effect forever. Ie.. steal a minion, destroy a weapon, destroy a secret, etc..
Slightly kind of delaying something, less than a whole turn, is not a tech card.
Dirty Rat has its purpose, and that is an anti-Aggro tool, and marginally anti-Combo. Generally an anti-minion card. There is a reason it does not pull DKs, and that is called BALANCE (other than the fact you simply cannot pull a DK to board. DKs are more like spells actually).
An anti-dk tech must indeed be a properly designed card, not a multi-purpose one.
Btw, all DK cards you mentioned are very powerfull indeed, but they are all for slow decks, and slow decks already have a natural counter-archetype. More than one actually: Combo and Mill.
This isn't really necessary. Right now the only top decks with Hero cards in them are Raz priest (which has it's own set of counters), Jade and Big Druid (own set of counters), and Control-Lock (again, own set of counters). Evo shaman is more or less dead right now. Face hunter doesn't use the DK. Secret mage doesn't use the DK. The rest of the heroes weren't played as much as the listed classes. So you have THREEE of NINE hero cards performing regularly. Not worth a counter or re-tuning a card